The New Toonami Ratings Thread (now with more civility!)

[PicardMan]

Interesting things just happened. MHA had a really big 275K drop. Promised Neverland will probably always have a pretty big drop, but this time it beat SAO in total viewers but lost in the demographic. It still looks like it's not doing too hot, I guess because it's not a battle show. JoJo had a good day of retention, showing that its retention is pretty inconsistent but it can still do good, a reminder of why they backpedaled on deathslotting it. Boruto's retention is still a lot worse than expected and HunterXHunter actually beat Shippuden in the demo for once, even being a slot later!

Edit: I just noticed that every show from SAO to Black Clover beat Promised Neverland in the demo. That's pretty disastrous. It seems that battle anime are what Toonami fans want and they avoid anything different.

 

[wjbraden]

I think the only reason Boruto's ratings are so low is because hardly anyone knows it went all the way down to 2:00 (and the fact the new lineup hasn't aired on-air, as far I as know).

Really, what they should have done was keep the lineup exactly as it was before this big shake up, because things were working just fine. Having Promised Neverland air at 12:30, moving SAO permanently down to 1:00, and calling it a day would have prevented a bunch of confusion and anger over all the slot swapping. Oh well.

 

[PicardMan]

I think the only reason Boruto's ratings are so low is because hardly anyone knows it went all the way down to 2:00 (and the fact the new lineup hasn't aired on-air, as far I as know).

Really, what they should have done was keep the lineup exactly as it was before this big shake up, because things were working just fine. Having Promised Neverland air at 12:30, moving SAO permanently down to 1:00, and calling it a day would have prevented a bunch of confusion and anger over all the slot swapping. Oh well.

Toonami has a history of poor promotion and that makes sense how Boruto can fall so far from being second biggest performer to underperformer. A Super, MHA, Boruto, Promised Neverland, SAO order would have probably worked well enough. I know the first two weeks of Promised Neverland have been rough, but once the main characters make their moves, I hope the ratings go up. I would like to see a non-battle shonen succeed on this block. You can even argue for swapping out SAO and Promised Neverland's order on that last list I gave as audiences seem to prefer the long running franchises, but my personal wish is for Promised Neverland to be given a chance.

 

[PicardMan]

Top 150 ratings and Dragonball Super's top 10 placement is the only good thing happening. No other show made the top 25. Over half of the Toonami viewership disappeared within an hour. Because MHA is classified as a rerun for some reason, we have no idea how it did but we have the third week in a row of Promised Neverland seems to have flopped hard, this time to its absolute lowest of sub 400K. Non battle anime seem to be ratings poison based on how this show and Pop Team Epic did. That's sad because Promised Neverland seems significantly more engaging, having an actual plot and a very menacing atmosphere. This week at least none of the actual shows gained on it and after doing pretty good for a few weeks, SAO is back to struggling with retention. Because everything else got tanked by either MHA or Promised Neverland, Boruto's retention was much better than it was the first two weeks in the slot.

#7 Dragonball Super: 767,000
#41 Promised Neverland: 370,000
#46 SAO 327,000
#49 JoJo 298,000
#52 Boruto 286,000

 

[wjbraden]

#7 Dragonball Super: 767,000
#41 Promised Neverland: 370,000
#46 SAO 327,000
#49 JoJo 298,000
#52 Boruto 286,000

Wow, ouch. I bet they're glad they didn't do that wacked out schedule change with SAO at 11:30 now. They should have also reconsidered moving Boruto as well, becuase at least that had better rentension when it was in a more accessible slot.

With numbers like this, I'm expecting another schedule shakeup for when Attack on Titan season 3 resumes next month.

 

[Light Lucario]

I'm not surprised that The Promised Neverland isn't doing too well ratings wise. While I do think it's a good show and refreshing change of pace for the block, it's probably a bit too different for the casual audience. There is suspense and tension with the mystery and the kids' attempts to escape their farm, but it doesn't have much of any action to action to keep people engaged. I think it fits better on the block than Pop Team Epic ever did, but it probably does stand out a bit too much compared to the other shows on the lineup.

I've also noticed that they've never played the promo for the new lineup on the block. Considering how many of the shows moved around, that is a big problem and most likely contributes to the ratings for these series as well.

 

[PicardMan]

Wow, ouch. I bet they're glad they didn't do that wacked out schedule change with SAO 11:30 now. They should have also reconsidered moving Boruto as well, becuase at least that had better rentension when it was in a more accessible slot.

With numbers like this, I'm expecting another schedule shakeup for when Attack on Titan season 3 resumes next month.

Its very likely there could be a schedule change. Putting Boruto so low in the lineup really hurt its ratings so it will probably come back to one of the top four slots. I still hope MHA keeps its honor of being the first non-Dragonball slot as MHA and Boruto didn't really have much of a difference in retention in that slot. With Attack on Titan coming and Promised Neverland underperforming, I am very sure that it will be in front of Neverland. I know that Pop Team Epic was an epic fail in ratings, but Toonami stuck it out being only twelve episodes so it won't move down that much. Here's my prediction of the new lineup: Super, MHA, Attack on Titan, Boruto, Promised Neverland, Black Clover, SAO, JoJo, HunterXHunter, and Shippuden.

 

[wjbraden]

Here's my prediction of the new lineup: Super, MHA, Attack on Titan, Boruto, Promised Neverland, Black Clover, SAO, JoJo, HunterXHunter, and Shippuden.

Unless they decide to re-expand to 10:30 to accommodate Attack on Titan or something, I can see that happening for the most part. But I don't think they'd shove SAO down to 2:00, especially after it was slated to be put at 11:30. Here's my prediction:
Expansion:
10.5 DBS
11 AOT
11.5 MHA
12 Boruto
12.5 SAO
1 PN
1.5 JJBA (followed by Lupin in June)
2 BC
2.5 Shippuden
3 HxH
3.5 Megaloxbox/Bebop/whatever
No Expansion:
11 DBS
11.5 MHA
12 AOT
12.5 Boruto
1 SAO
1.5 PN
2 JJBA (followed by Lupin in June)
2.5 BC
3 Shippuden
3.5 HxH

 

[PicardMan]

Full ratings and it appears that MHA was the culprit for tanking the night. It had a staggering loss of 310K viewers. Shows taking 300K losses from Dragonball happen from time to time and I'm wondering what causes them. Considering how this isn't the norm and MHA isn't the only show to have done it, I hope Adult Swim doesn't punish the show for one abnormal week. The 87K drop from MHA to Neverland did make things worse and Neverland certainly isn't doing that hot. Clover had another week of beating JoJo. Boruto hits a new level of embarrassment since moving and loses to HunterXHunter in the demographic a first.

11:00 Dragon Ball Super 767 0.34 435
11:30 My Hero Academia (r) 457 0.18 231
12:00a The Promised Neverland 370 0.15 193
12:30a Sword Art Online: Alicization 327 0.14 181
1:00a Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable 298 0.13 172
1:30a Black Clover (r) 318 0.15 195
2:00a Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 286 0.13 169
2:30a Naruto: Shippuden (r) 283 0.13 167
3:00a Hunter X Hunter (r) 286 0.13 173
3:30a Attack on Titan (r) 242 0.10 132

 

[PicardMan]

Full ratings are out. MHA did much better losing only 170K. It is sad to say that for post Dragonball shows, that's as good as it gets for retention. It's obvious that the gap between Dragonball and other anime is extremely high and Toonami needs to strategize for the post-Dragonball world. Promised Neverland reaches new levels of flop of doing something I've never seen before. It's the first time I've seen a show other than the post Dragonball show have the biggest viewer loss. Promised Neverland lossed a whopping 189K viewers. JoJo had another bad week, losing 40K and losing to Black Clover again. HunterXHunter seems to be doing amazing in its deathslot as it beat Boruto and it beat JoJo and even freaking SAO, which is many spots earlier, in the demographic and came within 1K of Black Clover, the consistent ratings winner for the block.

11:00 Dragon Ball Super 756 0.35 455
11:30 My Hero Academia (r) 586 0.27 347
12:00a The Promised Neverland 397 0.20 252 1
2:30a Sword Art Online: Alicization 367 0.18 235
1:00a Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable 327 0.17 224
1:30a Black Clover (r) 340 0.19 242
2:00a Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 314 0.18 227
2:30a Naruto: Shippuden (r) 315 0.18 232
3:00a Hunter X Hunter (r) 322 0.19 241
3:30a Attack on Titan (r) 253 0.14 185

 

[Darklordavaitor]

HunterXHunter's doing pretty darn well for itself as of late. I wonder if some fans who were turned off by the dragging and excessively violent nature of the Chimera Ants arc are coming back for the last one.

 

[Light Lucario]

HunterXHunter's doing pretty darn well for itself as of late. I wonder if some fans who were turned off by the dragging and excessively violent nature of the Chimera Ants arc are coming back for the last one.

It's possible. Admittedly, the pacing still seems pretty slow, although part of that comes from how they're still setting things up, but it's still not nearly as drawn out as the Chimera Ant arc and it is shorter, so that might have been appealing enough for more people to watch the series.

I'm still not surprised with The Promised Neverland not doing that well ratings wise either. Compared to other experimental shows Toonami has picked up before like Pop Team Epic, I actually like it and think that it is a pretty good show. However, whether or not it is a good fit for Toonami is a bit questionable. It certainly wouldn't appeal to the more casual audience or the people who prefer more action driven series. I wouldn't be surprised if it is moved further down the lineup once new Attack on Titan episodes start up again.

 

[PicardMan]

So far, non action anime have been huge flops and there's one anime I'm wondering can actually work or not. Re:Zero seems to be beloved by hardcore fans and Rem, the blue haired maid, seems to be merchandised to death and Rem cosplayers run around everywhere even a few years after the subs came out. It seems to have a few fight scenes but seems to be more classified as horror rather than action. It has plenty of gore, and gore used to be what drove people to Toonami shows. I think it might work better than Pop Team and Promised Neverland, but I think there are some talky, talky episodes. Anybody have any insight as to whether or not Re:Zero would be a hit or flop on Toonami?

 

[Golden Geek]

Anybody have any insight as to whether or not Re:Zero would be a hit or flop on Toonami?

The only issue would be that everyone's seen it by now. The full dub is on Crunchyroll. (The only people who haven't are the type who leave after Super with no interest in anything else.)

 

[PicardMan]

The only issue would be that everyone's seen it by now. The full dub is on Crunchyroll. (The only people who haven't are the type who leave after Super with no interest in anything else.)

I'm still wondering how much the availability of streaming dubs affects ratings because the parts of JoJo and HunterXHunter airing right now aren't streaming anywhere in dub form yet the former does pretty bad in the ratings and the latter had a slump during the chimera ant arc (in that case, the complicated mess of subplots caused it to be hard for casuals to just jump in, the election arc seems to be a more straightforward sequence of fights and chases with a political subplot). Conversely, Black Clover can be streamed dubbed on Funimation and seems it, Super, and the chairman election arc of HunterXHunter seem to be the only three shows not doing awful in the ratings. Funimation's paywall may be why Black Clover does well on Toonami despite its availability.

Another non-action Crunchyroll title that seems to have promise on Toonami is Konosuba. Sure Pop Team Epic failed, but Konosuba has an actual plot, albeit it's pretty episodic. With only the first season of Konosuba dubbed, there's the possibility of season 2's dub debuting on Toonami. Space Dandy was comedy more than action and was a smash hit, but the fact that it was a Watanabe title and a world premiere boosted it's performance quite a bit. Re:Zero and Konosuba seem to have loads of people demanding that they air on Toonami, but I'm wondering how hard either of these shows would flop in the ratings. Anybody believe either of these shows would actually do better than Promised Neverland?

 

[Light Lucario]

I'm still wondering how much the availability of streaming dubs affects ratings because the parts of JoJo and HunterXHunter airing right now aren't streaming anywhere in dub form yet the former does pretty bad in the ratings and the latter had a slump during the chimera ant arc (in that case, the complicated mess of subplots caused it to be hard for casuals to just jump in, the election arc seems to be a more straightforward sequence of fights and chases with a political subplot). Conversely, Black Clover can be streamed dubbed on Funimation and seems it, Super, and the chairman election arc of HunterXHunter seem to be the only three shows not doing awful in the ratings. Funimation's paywall may be why Black Clover does well on Toonami despite its availability.

I think that another factor to keep in mind is that Black Clover isn't that popular, at least from what I've seen. It is one of Funimation's simulcast dubs, so at least the anime is doing well enough for itself, but it's not one of the series that gets everyone talking about it. There was backlash against it when it first started because of how it came off as a generic shonen series to a lot of people. I'm not sure if the general reception towards the series has improved. I do see links to different people making English covers of some of the opening themes, so I don't know if more people like it now, but it never got the attention that other series like My Hero Academia or Jojo have.

I think that's why Funimation's paywall might not be hurting the series' ratings all that much. A lot of people already saw My Hero Academia before it started airing on the block because it was available on multiple streaming platforms and it was a popular series that attracted a lot of attention pretty much right from the start. Black Clover does well enough on the block, but it helps that it was never one of the huge anime series available on different streaming sites.

Another non-action Crunchyroll title that seems to have promise on Toonami is Konosuba. Sure Pop Team Epic failed, but Konosuba has an actual plot, albeit it's pretty episodic. With only the first season of Konosuba dubbed, there's the possibility of season 2's dub debuting on Toonami. Space Dandy was comedy more than action and was a smash hit, but the fact that it was a Watanabe title and a world premiere boosted it's performance quite a bit. Re:Zero and Konosuba seem to have loads of people demanding that they air on Toonami, but I'm wondering how hard either of these shows would flop in the ratings. Anybody believe either of these shows would actually do better than Promised Neverland?

They also gave Space Dandy a lot of promotion before and during the series' run, so that helped to make it a hit on top of being another anime by Watanabe. I haven't seen either series, so I don't know if they'll do better ratings wise. They might have more of an edge if a lot of people want them to air those series, but it's hard to say if the general audience would be into those series too.

 

[PicardMan]

I think that another factor to keep in mind is that Black Clover isn't that popular, at least from what I've seen.

I think there is evidence of the Dimension W effect, in which a show's Toonami ratings seem inversely proportional to its streaming popularity. It does seem obvious that streaming is really hurting ratings, even shows streaming only in sub form as casuals aren't going to wait years and years for the Viz dub to come out (as HunterXHunter and JoJo's dub came way after the subs). It is obvious that shows with streaming dubs or subs didn't use to hurt Toonami that much as 2016 had One Punch Man and early episodes of HunterXHunter, JoJo, and Iron Blooded Orphans as million viewer plus hits. Streaming has hurt Toonami and Black Clover probably gets viewers because not as many people have already streamed the sub/and or dub.

They might have more of an edge if a lot of people want them to air those series, but it's hard to say if the general audience would be into those series too.

I do know that Pop Team Epic and Promised Neverland had heavy demand for a Toonami airing, yet they flopped hard. It seems that casuals have ran away from Toonami airings of every non action anime not named Space Dandy. We also seem to know that hardcore anime fan taste doesn't really apply to casuals as merchandise, fan art, and cosplay popularity don't seem to correspond to a show's ratings. I'm thinking that Re:Zero and Konosuba seem to be the last hope for a non action anime not flopping because, in the former's case, gore shows seem to be popular with Toonami's audience as well as cute female characters (which both shows have). Promised Neverland and Pop Team Epic seemed to lack violence or waifus or other elements of casual appeal. It's still hard to say if casuals would latch onto either show because they are definitely not battle series, but if Toonami wants to gamble on non-action, they seem to be the only series that wouldn't be hardcore casual repellent as every other choice seems even worse (Zombie Land Saga would really flop bad). Anyway, here are the two girls who are 90% of the topics of forum discussion when discussing the show.

Konosuba's Megumin

Re:Zero's Rem.

 

[PicardMan]

Top 150 ratings time. Super did really well, almost making the 900K mark, which seems like an impassible barrier with how far cable's fallen. Most importantly is its number 2 ranking, which is incredible and shows how huge a hit it is (Goku vs Jiren probably did that). Again we have a serious issue where Promised Neverland has less than half the audience of Super and worse, lost to JoJo in the demo. The show has tanked, but like Pop Team Epic, it has avoided being deathslotted because it's a short show. Don't know how Black Clover did, but Boruto was 90K viewers lower than JoJo. SAO not charting is quite weird (did it do abysmally bad or did the ratings people decide to count it as a rerun all of a sudden? The latter theory makes little sense because there would no way JoJo could recover if SAO did have a catastrophic collapse). Three top 25 shows four top 40 shows indicates that Toonami is doing well even if Promised Neverland is underperforming. It's doing well enough that a deathslot isn't absolutely necessary.

#2 Super: 875,000
#20 Promised Neverland 468,000
#19 JoJo 414,000
#37 Boruto: 321,000

 

[doomrider7]

Some out of left field suggestions for comedy or non battle would be Golden Kamuy(action adventure), Asobi Asobase, Chio's School Road, and Grandblue Dreaming. No idea how they'd do, but they're all funny as hell and pretty interesting Dark Horse contenders though their episodic nature(exception Golden Kamuy) hurts them.

 

[PicardMan]

No idea how they'd do, but they're all funny as hell and pretty interesting Dark Horse contenders though their episodic nature(exception Golden Kamuy) hurts them.

I don't know if being episodic really affects ratings as Space Dandy and Michiko and Hatchin were episodic hits while Promised Neverland and Gundam Unicorn were continuity heavy flops. I don't think being episodic is why Pop Team Epic failed. Being a skit show with zero plot at all did it in. Comedy anime probably works if it has science fiction or fantasy elements a la Space Dandy, but a grounded school slice of life is bound to flop.