“Checkered Past” News & Discussion

[Conttactt]

You guys really need to get off this fixation on the network name. Adult Swim has brand recognition, they aren’t going to drop the name. I already made the MTV comparison, you don’t abandon a name people are familiar with just because the network direction is changing. Cartoon Network has too much negative baggage (and less appealing to advertisers) to be the network name. They aren’t even trying to be an all ages channel like some of you suggest. Checkered Past is nostalgiabait for millennials. Superman and the like are oddities that won’t be the norm. They won’t keep making CN tier shows and then dumping them on AS. But these few were already too far down the road to adjust for AS.

This is such a weird obsession that I don’t see anywhere else. People are just glad to have the content variety back. No one cares what the channel bug in the corner says.

 

[JMTV]

I neither need nor want for Cartoon Network to become a kid's channel again, but cartoons are for everybody. Adults, kids, teenagers, everyone. Perhaps it's time for the current heads of CN to be reminded of why this channel was created in the first place.

This is from 1992, but most of it still holds up.

That's what I've been saying. But for some reason, there's going to be people out there who think that "Cartoon Network is for everyone" is such a bizarre concept nowadays almost as if they were part of the out of the touch executive meetings or whatever.

Which I find that pathetic because people tend to forget that Cartoon Network is not a kids brand since Day 1. Cartoon Network is under the same boat as TNT and TBS. By that logic, Ted Turner's mission was to compete against Nickelodeon since 1992.

I prefer to have Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, rather than Adult Swim because it does help to recognize the Cartoon Network brand, so they should be primary and Adult Swim should be secondary.

Same with Boomerang - Cartoon Network's Boomerang.

Cartoon Network is parent as Adult Swim, Boomerang, Cartoonito and Toonami are children.

Yes. That's a great idea.

Then why not hold a presser or release a sizzle reel or something announcing that CN will be pivoting toward a slighter older audience going forward, though they won't be alienating kids altogether, just not making them top priority (say something like "Cartoon Network will no longer be aimed specifically at kids, but it's OK if kids want to watch for most of the day. We want CN to have a little something for everyone who loves cartoons"), and assure potential Adult Swim advertisers that the AS brand won't be going away, in fact the 'new' CN will encompass some of the AS crowd; they'll just be pushing the AS brand to late at night, which is where the really juicy stuff will go from now on?

Exactly! That's what they should've done. It's pretty sad that Tom Aschiem put a lot more effort and care into CN by having a actual plan with Redraw Your World than freaking what Owueleen and Zasalv is doing so far with CN. That's freaking sad.

Hell, @Tacomaster has the right idea of merging CN and AS operations to make their channel a lot more unified.

Cartoon Network and Adult Swim Merge Operations idea

I know this post is an April Fools joke, but this could actually work.

Cartoon Network has too much negative baggage (and less appealing to advertisers) to be the network name. They aren’t even trying to be an all ages channel like some of you suggest.

Well, that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. It seems to me that you are content on what they were doing.

And calling us "obsessive" is not really a good argument since people like me had a reason to be concern about CN's current state. You don't have to agree with us, that's fine, but calling us "obsessive" isn't cool.

 

[Checkerboard]

Similarly to "Toonami on Adult Swim" which is basically a block within a block, Adult Swim should become "Adult Swim on Cartoon Network" and Boomerang should become "Boomerang from Cartoon Network" - in both reality and promos. As it used to be. You can use the frequency from Boomerang to either save money use it for marketing. I would bring back the "best place for cartoons" tagline too. It can be done. It just would take maybe 3-6 months to produce and cost something. Heck they could even promote dvds or streaming between shows. "Toons to the Max", "Our library is Maxxed out", etc. Jeez, they should hire me and pay me lol.

 

[Goldstar!]

You guys really need to get off this fixation on the network name. Adult Swim has brand recognition, they aren’t going to drop the name. I already made the MTV comparison, you don’t abandon a name people are familiar with just because the network direction is changing. Cartoon Network has too much negative baggage (and less appealing to advertisers) to be the network name. They aren’t even trying to be an all ages channel like some of you suggest. Checkered Past is nostalgiabait for millennials. Superman and the like are oddities that won’t be the norm. They won’t keep making CN tier shows and then dumping them on AS. But these few were already too far down the road to adjust for AS.

This is such a weird obsession that I don’t see anywhere else. People are just glad to have the content variety back. No one cares what the channel bug in the corner says.

Counterpoint: I would argue that Cartoon Network has just as much, if not more brand recognition than Adult Swim does. In some countries, CN doesn't even an AS block. My point is that the CN name has broader appeal because it's implied the channel being all-inclusive rather than just being for adults.

Also, I guess you missed the part where it was mentioned that CN was originally a channel for animation lovers of all ages. If anything, CN is shifting back to being a general entertainment channel, albeit one that's 80% animation.

Cartoon Network is just a better name, to me at least. The entire channel should not be Adult Swim. But that's just my opinion, which doesn't carry the weight of sunlight.

For the record, Checkered Past is a start, but it's only a temporary solution to the bigger problems that CN is facing right now.

 

[Conttactt]

Well, that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. It seems to me that you are content on what they were doing.

And calling us "obsessive" is not really a good argument since people like me had a reason to be concern about CN's current state. You don't have to agree with us, that's fine, but calling us "obsessive" isn't cool.

It is obsessive though. They have been doing everything the fans have been begging for for years, the only catch is it’s under the AS name. Something that should not matter and no one anywhere else cares about.

Counterpoint: I would argue that Cartoon Network has just as much, if not more brand recognition than Adult Swim does. In some countries, CN doesn't even an AS block. My point is that the CN name has broader appeal because it's implied the channel being all-inclusive rather than just being for adults.

Also, I guess you missed the part where it was mentioned that CN was originally a channel for animation lovers of all ages. If anything, CN is shifting back to being a general entertainment channel, albeit one that's 80% animation.

Cartoon Network is just a better name, to me at least. The entire channel should not be Adult Swim. But that's just my opinion, which doesn't carry the weight of sunlight.

For the record, Checkered Past is a start, but it's only a temporary solution to the bigger problems that CN is facing right now.

Adult Swim is among the top 5 rated networks on all of cable. Cartoon Network is in the bottom 10. Why would they invest efforts into the name that’s barely even alive over the one that’s almost the king of cable? Especially when the vast majority of the channel is still adult content and will likely stay that way. 2 hours of Checkered Past 4 days a week, and 9 weeks of MAWS is the only Cartoon Network tier content airing. If Toonami Rewind survives more than a few months, we may even see that take more time.

I could see a call to change the name in the event that AS takes over the entire channel. But as I have said before, I think CN will always maintain a handful of hours purely because the brand has value internationally.

 

[Goldstar!]

It is obsessive though. They have been doing everything the fans have been begging for years, the only catch is it’s under the AS name. Something that should not matter and no one anywhere else cares about.

More action shows and reruns aren't what I've been asking for. I'd like to see more original comedies on the channel, and not just stoner shows and ultra-violent action cartoons.

None one else cares about (the AS name)

And by "no one", you're referring to yourself. You don't care about it, and that's fine, if you're getting what you want, that's great, but I'm part of everyone and I happen it think that Cartoon Network is a better name, overall.

I could see a call to change the name in the event that AS takes over the entire channel. But as I have said before, I think CN will always maintain a handful of hours purely because the brand has value internationally.

Adult Swim initially started at 11 PM, then at 9 PM, then at 8 PM, and now it's starting at 5 PM. How is that not taking over the entire channel? If things continue at this rate, AS will eventually take over completely. especially if WB is just going to keep handing all of the new shows over to AS regardless of whether said shows are fit for the AS branding or not. This is just the Jetix situation all over again.

Like I said earlier: I would prefer it if Warner Bros were able to stand on its own and operate independently rather than get purchased by some big tech company like Comcast or Apple or Amazon or whatever, but I would also like to see this network be owned and run by someone who won't treat CN and it's IPs like trash.

 

[Silverstar]

It is obsessive though. They have been doing everything the fans have been begging for for years,

They haven't been doing everything this fan wants. I want some decent animated comedies that aren't just Simpsons or Family Guy clones. With the exception of Rick & Morty and Smiling Friends, all they've been doing is falling back on retro and Millenial nostalgia, which is a lazy way to jingle keys in adult audiences' faces rather than genuinely improving and innovating.

the only catch is it’s under the AS name. Something that should not matter and no one anywhere else cares about.

And by "no one anywhere else" you're referring to yourself, because I know several fans who don't want this entire channel to become Adult Swim. By your definition, I'm "obsessive" because I feel that words mean things and language has rules which should be adhered to. Sticking family-friendly shows under the AS banner makes no sense. It's like putting The Man Show on Lifetime.

I could elaborate on this, but @Jeff Harris has already typed my views on the subject.

 

[JMTV]

It is obsessive though. They have been doing everything the fans have been begging for for years, the only catch is it’s under the AS name. Something that should not matter and no one anywhere else cares about.

Okay, but if Cartoon Network is not going to have anything compared to Adult Swim, then what do you think CN should do now?

Why do you think Cartoon Network should appeal to everyone is a bizarre concept to you?

Adult Swim is among the top 5 rated networks on all of cable. Cartoon Network is in the bottom 10. Why would they invest efforts into the name that’s barely even alive over the one that’s almost the king of cable? Especially when the vast majority of the channel is still adult content and will likely stay that way. 2 hours of Checkered Past 4 days a week, and 9 weeks of MAWS is the only Cartoon Network tier content airing. If Toonami Rewind survives more than a few months, we may even see that take more time.

Yes, I get it, but that doesn't mean Cartoon Network shouldn't be invested too?

Like I said, merge those two brands into one label. You can still get ad revenue from it.

I could see a call to change the name in the event that AS takes over the entire channel. But as I have said before, I think CN will always maintain a handful of hours purely because the brand has value internationally.

Well, they should value domestically too, but apparently not.

Seriously, why do you think Cartoon Network is such a lost cause to you? You seem to act like you are above everyone else's opinion while everyone else is wrong.

Yes, factually, Adult Swim has better ratings than CN, but that doesn't mean I have to agree on what Warner Bros are doing. And that's just my opinion. I said this a thousands times; you don't have to agree with me or everyone else here, but doesn't mean I don't have the right to express my opinions.

Last time I checked: you can still be an fan of AS while disagreeing on what they are doing. Not to mention, I heard you are complaining about Toonami and Jason DeMarco's decisions all the time, yet you still watch the block. So, spare me being the obsessive one here.

It's like...., give me a break.

 

[Conttactt]

And by "no one", you're referring to yourself. You don't care about it, and that's fine, if you're getting what you want, that's great, but I'm part of everyone and I happen it think that Cartoon Network is a better name, overall.

No, by no one, I mean no one. Outside of Toonzone, no one is up in arms over the network name. Best I can give is when Checkered Past was first announced it had a few people scratching their heads over CN stuff airing on AS but they quickly moved on since they liked the concept.

Adult Swim initially started at 11 PM, then at 9 PM, then at 8 PM, and now it's starting at 5 PM. How is that not taking over the entire channel? If things continue at this rate, AS will eventually take over completely. especially if WB is just going to keep handing all of the new shows over to AS regardless of whether said shows are fit for the AS branding or not. This is just the Jetix situation all over again.

Like I said earlier: I would prefer it if Warner Bros were able to stand on its own and operate independently rather than get purchased by some big tech company like Comcast or Apple or Amazon or whatever, but I would also like to see this network be owned and run by someone who won't treat CN and it's IPs like trash.

What do you want them to do? No one watches CN, lots of people watch AS. CN can’t snap their fingers and generate content people want to watch.

Okay, but if Cartoon Network is not going to have anything compared to Adult Swim, then what do you think CN should do now?

Why do you think Cartoon Network should appeal to everyone is a bizarre concept to you?

Air a couple hours of TTGo and Gumball and just exist. What they were content to do for the past decade, but now it only eats up a tiny part of the channel rather than the entire day. Way too late to course correct at this point.

Yes, I get it, but that doesn't mean Cartoon Network shouldn't be invested too?

Like I said, merge those two brands into one label. You can still get ad revenue from it.

Why invest in something no one is watching? Where is the ROI in that scenario? At least when the shows go to AS, they get a chance at an audience. Maybe not quite the intended one, but an audience none the less.

Seriously, why do you think Cartoon Network is such a lost cause to you? You seem to act like you are above everyone else's opinion while everyone else is wrong.

Have you seen its schedule for the past 10 years? They gave up on CN a LONG time ago. It’s just now we are seeing the consequences of their actions.

Nobody said you can’t express your opinions, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t immune from being challenged. Some of you have a lofty vision of what CN should do but no viable way the network could make it happen. New hit shows don’t just fall out of the sky, at this point you would need to gather the dragonballs and make a wish to have any hope of saving CN.

 

[Tacomaster]

That's what I've been saying. But for some reason, there's going to be people out there who think that "Cartoon Network is for everyone" is such a bizarre concept nowadays almost as if they were part of the out of the touch executive meetings or whatever.

Which I find that pathetic because people tend to forget that Cartoon Network is not a kids brand since Day 1. Cartoon Network is under the same boat as TNT and TBS. By that logic, Ted Turner's mission was to compete against Nickelodeon since 1992.

Actually, despite what I’ve been saying, I’d argue it was at least partially a kids channel from day one. Being composed of 90% kids programming will do that to ya, and the presentation pitch even brought up kids as a major market. There was even a preschool block early on! (Yes, before Cartoonito, Tickle U, and even Big Bag, CN had a midday preschool block with Snorks, Shirt Tales, Fantastic Max, and… um… Tom and Jerry and Top Cat?

But again, the key word is PARTIALLY. The same presentation pitch also brought up adults as just a big a market due to the nostalgia factor, and how adults watch cartoons just as much as kids. I even recall an early article saying how the initial CN prime time lineup was made up specifically of shows that had aired in prime time (Jonny Quest, Flintstones, Jetsons, and Looney Tunes) to appeal to the baby boomer generation. And let’s not forget how even at launch, ToonHeads was made directly for grown ups.

If anything, early CN was actually a family channel, if a younger-skewing one. Kinda like the Hub, Fox Family, and premium era Disney Channel. Heck, some early ads directly positioned CN as for the whole family.

 

[Goldstar!]

If no one is watching Cartoon Network anymore, the fans don't care about the Adult Swim takeover and Warner execs no longer care about CN, then why keep the CN name at all? Why not jus rename the whole channel to Adult Swim and be done with it? CN is now just a placeholder like Boomerang U.S.

What do you want them to do? No one watches CN, lots of people watch AS.

Bro, it's a Catch 22. No one is watching Cartoon Network because there's nothing good on it, and WB won't put anything good on Cartoon Network because no one is watching it.

CN can’t snap their fingers and generate content people want to watch

So instead of trying to make CN watchable again, WB should just toss CN into the trash because it's easier to program for Adult Swim. Got it. Filed. Stored.

And what myself and others are suggesting is nothing radical; merely that WB unify all of the good shows under a single banner and call that banner Cartoon Network, a global brand that's recognized all over the world. How is that a way-out concept?

And for the record, I don't like this programming. It's mostly old shows, which won't work in the long run unless WB rotates the lineup every month or so in order to keep the lineups from going stale. I swear, no one hates Cartoon Network more than Warner Brothers does.

 

[Silverstar]

Some of you have a lofty vision of what CN should do but no viable way the network could make it happen.

I don't think "Unify the brand and place shows and blocks under the banners they actually belong in" is that lofty a vision, but sure, dude. Whatever.

I acquiesce that I don't own or control any piece of CN and that ads and money are WBD's motivating factors, so my opinions on the channel don't carry the weight of sunlight. It's a moot point anyway, since I don't even watch Checkered Past; the block's existence kind of irks me if I'm being honest, but if the masses like it, if the majority of viewers are OK with quick fixes and mediocrity as long as they have that sandwich to look forward to when they get home, then who's to argue with success, right?

I do agree with one thing you said:

Warner Bros. gave up on CN a LONG time ago. It’s just now we are seeing the consequences of their actions.

It's sad because this could have been avoided and could still be corrected, though it would require the people in charge caring about something other than money, but to quote Kurt Angle: it's true. It's damn true.

 

[Checkerboard]

One, @Conttactt has a somewhat skewed point of view. Like, would you apply this approach to anything else as well? Say someone is sick, so because they are a burden you discard them so to speak? Is it easier to focus on AS? Yes. Is it the right thing to do morally? Heck no. Without CN inception there would have been no AS. And without CN airwaves there would be no AS on air. AS it at the mercy of CN. Not the other way around despite what any numbers want to suggest. And going in that direction is an approach that will destroy BOTH channels in the longterm. Also, CN is HUGE abroad compared to USA. Maybe not as much as it was 15-30 years ago when there wasn't much of Nick and Disney available, but still watched. Any failure can be turned around with effort. THAT is the point.

As for the demographics, CN was always a family channel. Just animated. And instead of embracing proudly their history they sabotage it by silly policies.

Also, I feel like this thread and the Adult Swim approach thread are somewhat merging in content. So not sure anymore where to post this, but what is this supposed to be?

 

[mqg96]

Honestly... I just want to throw this in since this is a Checkered Past thread.... I don't know if they're ever going to air cartoons from the post-Cartoon Cartoons era on there... by this I mean post-2004 debuting CN series. I believe the block is only for super OG's.... like any Cartoon Cartoon or original that debuted between 1996-2003... I'm already aware why Powerpuff Girls and Johnny Bravo won't air which I don't agree with but it is what it is... and some of the most underrated Cartoon Cartoons I believe there's a slim chance.... only slim.

Edit: I'm with Checkerboard. I'm moving the next paragraphs elsewhere.

 

[Mejo]

You know, all this heated discussion of this block recently on this thread has actually been more interesting to me than the block itself!

Pass the popcorn.

 

[JMTV]

No, by no one, I mean no one. Outside of Toonzone, no one is up in arms over the network name. Best I can give is when Checkered Past was first announced it had a few people scratching their heads over CN stuff airing on AS but they quickly moved on since they liked the concept.

What do you want them to do? No one watches CN, lots of people watch AS. CN can’t snap their fingers and generate content people want to watch.

Air a couple hours of TTGo and Gumball and just exist. What they were content to do for the past decade, but now it only eats up a tiny part of the channel rather than the entire day. Way too late to course correct at this point.

Why invest in something no one is watching? Where is the ROI in that scenario? At least when the shows go to AS, they get a chance at an audience. Maybe not quite the intended one, but an audience none the less.

Have you seen its schedule for the past 10 years? They gave up on CN a LONG time ago. It’s just now we are seeing the consequences of their actions.

Nobody said you can’t express your opinions, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t immune from being challenged. Some of you have a lofty vision of what CN should do but no viable way the network could make it happen. New hit shows don’t just fall out of the sky, at this point you would need to gather the dragonballs and make a wish to have any hope of saving CN.

(sighs) You know what? I give up. I'll take your word for it.

I have no dog in this race since I don't really watch Cartoon Network anymore, and I haven't been paying attention to their schedule for the past 10 years, but for what I've heard from people, it's absolutely atrocious. I can understand why WBD focus on Adult Swim more, even if I don't like it.

If no one is watching Cartoon Network anymore, the fans don't care about the Adult Swim takeover and Warner execs no longer care about CN, then why keep the CN name at all? Why not jus rename the whole channel to Adult Swim and be done with it? CN is now just a placeholder like Boomerang U.S.

They might as well just turn CN into Adult Swim 24/7 for now on. If WBD can allowed TruTV to be a (half) sport channel, then they might as well turn CN into a full Adult Swim channel, regardless of brand recognition.

Bro, it's a Catch 22. No one is watching Cartoon Network because there's nothing good on it, and WB won't put anything good on Cartoon Network because no one is watching it.

Yeah, that is true. It's difficult.

 

[Tacomaster]

(sighs) You know what? I give up. I'll take your word for it.

I have no dog in this race since I don't really watch Cartoon Network anymore, and I haven't been paying attention to their schedule for the past 10 years, but for what I've heard from people, it's absolutely atrocious. I can understand why WBD focus on Adult Swim more, even if I don't like it.

They might as well just turn CN into Adult Swim 24/7 for now on. If WBD can allowed TruTV to be a (half) sport channel, then they might as well turn CN into a full Adult Swim channel, regardless of brand recognition.

Yeah, that is true. It's difficult.

So this is how the Cartoon Network dies. With an indifferent shrug.

 

[parkersfan89]

Honestly... I just want to throw this in since this is a Checkered Past thread.... I don't know if they're ever going to air cartoons from the post-Cartoon Cartoons era on there... by this I mean post-2004 debuting CN series. I believe the block is only for super OG's.... like any Cartoon Cartoon or original that debuted between 1996-2003... I'm already aware why Powerpuff Girls and Johnny Bravo won't air which I don't agree with but it is what it is... and some of the most underrated Cartoon Cartoons I believe there's a slim chance.... only slim.

Edit: I'm with Checkerboard. I'm moving the next paragraphs elsewhere.

at least, CP airs post powerhouse era eps of Ed, Edd, & Eddy & Billy & Mandy (2 of the block's flagship shows)!

 

[JMTV]

So this is how the Cartoon Network dies. With an indifferent shrug.

Yup. If the people don't care, then why should we?

 

[Tacomaster]

Well, unlike you, I’m not a nihilist. Even if I identify as a glass half empty kind of guy, just because I know it’s not likely things will change doesn’t mean I’m going to keep quiet. After all, if you do want things to change, even if it’s not likely, you have to make your voice heard.