Is Nick/Viacom Done With TMNT?

[Mostezli]

I don't know if Disney would turn out a worse series, if only because most of the animated series during the past few years in particular have been pretty good, but I don't know if they'd actually be interested in the property. They already have Marvel and Star Wars to appeal to the male demographic, so I'm not sure what they'd get out of the TMNT franchise aside from obviously more money from toy sales. I don't think that Hasbro or Warner Bros. would be good fits for the franchise though.

If Disney got TMNT, it'd have to be under the Disney original banner rather than an acquisition because they clearly don't have the funds nor the creative staff to produce/develop a decent show as has been the case for Marvel & Star Wars (which I blindly assumed LucasFilms would have more than enough in the bank to keep up the high quality). Rebels looked ok. Post-Rebels I skipped entirely.

People might not be complaining because they've stopped caring. Constantly rebooting things seems to fatigue audiences. The last Batman branded cartoon was cancelled six years ago. Who knows when the next Spider-Man cartoon (toddler cartoon excluded) will launch after Disney XD's death. Star Wars Resistance got cancelled after two seasons, etc. It seems like you get diminishing returns the more you relaunch without any kind of rest period.

What TMNT has been doing since its inception with each and every reboot was to update with the times.
There's been just the right amount of reboots to reflect the generations being targeted across all the media, imho.

 

[Fone Bone]

I'm pretty sure that I've heard complaints about both Batman and Spider Man getting new shows one after another before.

Fair enough. But nobody was outraged either. It was to be expected. I don't see the big deal of Playmates wanting to keep the toys on the shelves.

 

[Light Lucario]

Fair enough. But nobody was outraged either. It was to be expected. I don't see the big deal of Playmates wanting to keep the toys on the shelves.

It's kind of hard to be outraged when as you pointed out, it was expected. It's kind of standard for Batman in particular as well. Playmates wanting to keep their toys on the shelves isn't a terrible reason to make another series. It's just that going from one series to a new one with little to no breathing room in between can result in franchise fatigue.

 

[The Overlord]

Nick only owned the characters from that show, but didn't own the actual show itself; CBS did. Who knows if Viacom will now own the actual series itself now that Viacom has re-merged with CBS. I should've also pointed out that the Saturday 10:30p deathslot for Rise premieres on Nicktoons could be another indication that Nick is done with TMNT

It could simply be done with this incarceration of TMNT, they could create another cartoon in a few years. I doubt they will sell the franchise to someone else.

Nobody criticized DC or Disney for putting out new Batman or Spider-Man cartoons one right after the other. I don't see the big deal about TMNT doing the same. Transformers does it too.

I do not care for that either. I used to be excited for new Marvel and DC cartoons, even ones that were not the best like the 2006 Fantastic Four cartoon. But after Ultimate Spider-Man replaced Spectacular Spider-Man, I lost interest in most new Marvel shows.

I think She-Ra gets a lot of buzz because of the huge 33 year gap between shows. Heck I am looking forward to the next Masters of the Universe cartoon from Kevin Smith, because the last He-Man cartoon ended in 2004. At least with a new X-Men cartoon, the last one ended in 2009, it would be more fresh than another Spider-Man cartoon.

Same deal with TMNT, give it a few years between shows and people will care more.

 

[Red Arrow]

Is Rise of the TMNT getting that much outrage?

With the exception of Batman: The Brave and the Bold, which premiered immediately after The Batman ended, there was always a hiatus of at least 2 years in between two Batman cartoons.

1968-1969 (The Adventures of Batman)
8 year hiatus
1977 (The New Adventures of Batman)
15 year hiatus
1992-1995 (Batman: The Animated Series)
2 year hiatus
1997-1999 (The New Batman Adventures)
1999-2001 (Batman Beyond, sequal to The New Batman Adventures)
3 year hiatus
2004-2008 (The Batman)
2008-2011 (Batman: The Brave and the Bold)
2 year hiatus
2013-2014 (Beware the Batman)
5+ year hiatus

So from 2000 till 2019, we had 12 years of Batman and 8 "batless" years.

This is not the case with Transformers. Since 1996, there have been new Transformers episodes every year.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

I'm going to be honest, but I just think Viacom CBS could sell this IP in the future, as despite the 2012 TV series, the IDW comics and the Batman crossover, I don't think they really have faith in the property anymore.

 

[Light Lucario]

Is Rise of the TMNT getting that much outrage?

I don't think it's really caused much, if any, outrage, at least based on the reactions here. I think that just going from one series to another one with no breathing room made people less interested in or excited about Rise of the TMNT. Being another comedy series might have also been an issue, especially when I remember people comparing it with TTG for awhile.

With the exception of Batman: The Brave and the Bold, which premiered immediately after The Batman ended, there was always a hiatus of at least 2 years in between two Batman cartoons.

1968-1969 (The Adventures of Batman)
8 year hiatus
1977 (The New Adventures of Batman)
15 year hiatus
1992-1995 (Batman: The Animated Series)
2 year hiatus
1997-1999 (The New Batman Adventures)
1999-2001 (Batman Beyond, sequal to The New Batman Adventures)
3 year hiatus
2004-2008 (The Batman)
2008-2011 (Batman: The Brave and the Bold)
2 year hiatus
2013-2014 (Beware the Batman)
5+ year hiatus

So from 2000 till 2019, we had 12 years of Batman and 8 "batless" years.

This is not the case with Transformers. Since 1996, there have been new Transformers episodes every year.

I thought that there were smaller breaks between those series and that there was another Batman series after Beware the Batman, but I must have been mistaken. Maybe it also just felt like Batman still gets a ton of focus considering how many direct to DVD Batman movies there have been over the past few years.

 

[The Overlord]

I think this is a topic worth reviving, I think between CBS and Viacom merging and Viacom's deal with Netflix, TMNT is going nowhere, I think Viacom is going to hold on to its properties pretty tightly. I think Rise of TMNT will not make it past its second season, but I think TMNT will be revived for streaming, sooner or later.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

I think this is a topic worth reviving, I think between CBS and Viacom merging and Viacom's deal with Netflix, TMNT is going nowhere, I think Viacom is going to hold on to its properties pretty tightly. I think Rise of TMNT will not make it past its second season, but I think TMNT will be revived for streaming, sooner or later.

Well, frankly, I honestly think Viacom CBS don't really have a lot of faith in the franchise and I think Universal would be a better choice to handle the franchise since I would love to see a new TMNT animated series produced by Dreamworks Animation.

 

[The Overlord]

Well, frankly, I honestly think Viacom CBS don't really have a lot of faith in the franchise and I think Universal would be a better choice to handle the franchise since I would love to see a new TMNT animated series produced by Dreamworks Animation.

Perhaps, but I doubt Viacom/CBS will sell TMNT to anyone else outright. I think they will want to keep TMNT either so they can sell shows to Netflix or put TMNT shows on CBS All Access. I think the franchise is still worth something and I think Viacom/CBS knows this, but between screwing up the rebooted movies and having 2 different TMNT cartoons airing too close each other, has put the franchise in a tough spot at the moment. But I think they can bring it back a year or two after Rise is done. Plus Viacom is not going to sell it for cheap, they will want a lot more then what they paid for it, which Universal may not want to pay for. I think Viacom is trying to scale up by buying affordable franchises like Garfield, keeping TMNT would fit with their current business plans.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Perhaps, but I doubt Viacom/CBS will sell TMNT to anyone else outright. I think they will want to keep TMNT either so they can sell shows to Netflix or put TMNT shows on CBS All Access.

Well, I doubt they're going to remain being IP owner if they're going to continue screwing up the franchise like this.

I think the franchise is still worth something and I think Viacom/CBS knows this, but between screwing up the rebooted movies and having 2 different TMNT cartoons airing too close each other, has put the franchise in a tough spot at the moment.

No, I don't think they know this because it's not one of their flagship franchises. Their flagship franchises are Mission: Impossible, Star Trek and Spongebob.

But I think they can bring it back a year or two after Rise is done. Plus Viacom is not going to sell it for cheap, they will want a lot more then what they paid for it, which Universal may not want to pay for.

Yet you said that having two different TMNT shows airing too close each other is one of the reasons why the franchise is currently in a tough spot at the moment plus you probably don't know if Viacom CBS will not sell the franchise for cheap.

I think Viacom CBS is trying to scale up by buying affordable franchises like Garfield, keeping TMNT would fit with their current business plans.

I disagree on that keeping the franchise would fit with their current plans. The franchise deserves better than being screwed up by their current owner and I don't think it's going to get any better under Viacom CBS.

The reason why I said Universal would make a great IP owner for the franchise is that I would love to see a Dreamworks TMNT animated series, not to mention the potential of Universal starting up a cinematic universe for the franchise to serve as their equivalent to the MCU and the Worlds of DC, even though Fast & Furious currently holds the title, given the release of Hobbs & Shaw this August.

 

[The Overlord]

Well, I doubt they're going to remain being IP owner if they're going to continue screwing up the franchise like this.


No, I don't think they know this because it's not one of their flagship franchises. Their flagship franchises are Mission: Impossible, Star Trek and Spongebob.

I doubt Viacom/CBS would only want to rely on those 3 franchise, heck if they were putting all their eggs into just 3 baskets, they wouldn't be buying stuff like Garfield.

Yet you said that having two different TMNT shows airing too close each other is one of the reasons why the franchise is currently in a tough spot at the moment plus you probably don't know if Viacom CBS will not sell the franchise for cheap.


I disagree on that keeping the franchise would fit with their current plans. The franchise deserves better than being screwed up by their current owner and I don't think it's going to get any better under Viacom CBS.

The reason why I said Universal would make a great IP owner for the franchise is that I would love to see a Dreamworks TMNT animated series, not to mention the potential of Universal starting up a cinematic universe for the franchise to serve as their equivalent to the MCU and the Worlds of DC, even though Fast & Furious currently holds the title, given the release of Hobbs & Shaw this August.

I am not defending Viacom here, I think they are the worst run of the big entertainment companies and I think Universal likely would handle the TMNT franchise better then Viacom.

But what I would want is not the same as what I think will happen, if Viacom sells TMNT to Universal for cheap and Universal makes a mint for themselves with it, Viacom will be kicking themselves.

Viacom lost Marvel to Disney, lost DreamWorks and Blumhouse to Universal, they let a lot of profitable franchises slip from their fingers into the hands of other companies. I think that would make them more likely to hold on to what they have. TMNT is likely worth more then the Terminator franchise for example, for Viacom, TMNT can make a recovery, Terminator has not been successful since 1991.

I think a company can mismanage a franchise, but still want to keep for it for later. Warner Brothers was mismanaging the DC comics franchise for a bit, but they were never going to sell DC comics, Disney over exposed Star Wars, which led to Solo bombing, but Disney is not going to sell it, the last Ghostbusters movie did not do that well, but Sony is not going to sell it.

Unless someone pays a mint for TMNT, that franchise is going nowhere, I think CBS/Viacom will want to keep every franchise they can for the streaming wars.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

I doubt Viacom/CBS would only want to rely on those 3 franchise, heck if they were putting all their eggs into just 3 baskets, they wouldn't be buying stuff like Garfield.

You really don't know what the term "flagship franchise" means at all. It doesn't necessarily mean they would only want to rely on those.

But what I would want is not the same as what I think will happen, if Viacom sells TMNT to Universal for cheap and Universal makes a mint for themselves with it, Viacom will be kicking themselves.

I don't think they would kick themselves if they do that since they already have the live-action Transformers IP (another flagship franchise of theirs) and most of said films did well at the box office despite not being critical darlings.

Viacom lost Marvel to Disney, lost Dreamworks and Blumhouse to Universal, they let a lot of profitable franchises slip from their fingers into the hands of other companies.

For Marvel, that was only the distribution rights, not film rights as Marvel Studios had regained the film rights of Iron Man, Thor and Captain America prior to the production of these films.

Actually, they lost both Dreamworks studios to Fox (animation wise) and Disney (live-action wise) during this decade since this happened prior to Universal acquiring DWA in 2016 and a stake on DW owner Amblin Partners in 2017.

I think that would make them more likely to hold on to what they have. TMNT is likely worth more then the Terminator franchise for example, for Viacom, TMNT can make a recovery, Terminator has not been successful since 1991.

I disagree on that they can make a recovery under their current owner since I wasn't happy when it was confirmed that Michael Bay would remain involved in the films as his production company, which produced the previous two films, would be co-producing the film reboot plus there hasn't been any recent update on such.

I think a company can mismanage a franchise, but still want to keep for it for later. Warner Brothers was mismanaging the DC comics franchise for a bit, but they were never going to sell DC comics, Disney over exposed Star Wars, which led to Solo bombing, but Disney is not going to sell it, the last Ghostbusters movie did not do that well, but Sony is not going to sell it.

Those three are not comparable to Viacom's handling of the TMNT franchise because DC has been part of Warner for 50 years (WB's parent company at the time bought the publisher in 1969), Star Wars proven to be one of Disney's four flagship franchises despite the broken base among fans (the other three being the main Disney brand, Pixar and Marvel) and Ghostbusters has been a Columbia property since day one.

Unless someone pays a mint for TMNT, that franchise is going nowhere, I think CBS Viacom will want to keep every franchise they can for the streaming wars.

Except that mergers like this can actually lead to them selling off parts, so I can definitely see them doing such plus I haven't heard anyone from the company saying that the franchise is going nowhere.

I'm sorry but I'm done with this "franchise is going nowhere and doubtful that they'll sell it to someone else" stuff since I know you're going to continue doing such a response like that. Just because you said you're doubtful that they'll sell the franchise to someone else doesn't rule out the possibility of them doing such.

 

[The Overlord]

You really don't know what the term "flagship franchise" means at all. It doesn't necessarily mean they would only want to rely on those.


I don't think they would kick themselves if they do that since they already have the live-action Transformers IP (another flagship franchise of theirs) and most of said films did well at the box office despite not being critical darlings.


For Marvel, that was only the distribution rights, not film rights as Marvel Studios had regained the film rights of Iron Man, Thor and Captain America prior to the production of these films.

Actually, they lost both Dreamworks studios to Fox (animation wise) and Disney (live-action wise) during this decade since this happened prior to Universal acquiring DWA in 2016 and a stake on DW owner Amblin Partners in 2017.


I disagree on that they can make a recovery under their current owner since I wasn't happy when it was confirmed that Michael Bay would remain involved in the films as his production company, which produced the previous two films, would be co-producing the film reboot plus there hasn't been any recent update on such.


Those three are not comparable to Viacom's handling of the TMNT franchise because DC has been part of Warner for 50 years (WB's parent company at the time bought the publisher in 1969), Star Wars proven to be one of Disney's four flagship franchises despite the broken base among fans (the other three being the main Disney brand, Pixar and Marvel) and Ghostbusters has been a Columbia property since day one.


Except that mergers like this can actually lead to them selling off parts, so I can definitely see them doing such plus I haven't heard anyone from the company saying that the franchise is going nowhere.

I'm sorry but I'm done with this "franchise is going nowhere and doubtful that they'll sell it to someone else" stuff since I know you're going to continue doing such a response like that. Just because you said you're doubtful that they'll sell the franchise to someone else doesn't rule out the possibility of them doing such.

Okay here is the thing, I have no real dog in this fight, I do not work for Viacom. Neither of us has any real evidence one or the other on what Viacom's plans for TMNT are, so everything on this thread is based on opinion and speculation. I am debating for fun more than anything else.

Could Viacom sell TMNT to Universal? Sure, I personally do not think that will be the case, but I could be wrong and I would fine with that.

But one should not confuse what one wants with what will happen, just because you do not like how Viacom is handling TMNT, does mean they will sell it to someone else who would handle it more to more your liking. They could very well keep it because they think they could make money off it in terms of merch and content for the streaming wars.

I do not think they will sell it for cheap though, the famous business saying is ''buy low, sell high'', if Viacom sold TMNT off for cheap, that would make little business sense.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

But one should not confuse what one wants with what will happen, just because you do not like how Viacom is handling TMNT, does mean they will sell it to someone else who would handle it more to more your liking. They could very well keep it because they think they could make money off it in terms of merch and content for the streaming wars.

But one shouldn't confuse saying Viacom keeping this for the time being with keeping it for decades because that's what you're implying.

I do not think they will sell it for cheap though, the famous business saying is ''buy low, sell high'', if Viacom sold TMNT off for cheap, that would make little business sense.

No one ever uses that saying anymore.

 

[The Overlord]

But one shouldn't confuse saying Viacom keeping this for the time being with keeping it for decades because that's what you're implying.


No one ever uses that saying anymore.

Regardless, the sentiment behind the saying remains true today, no big company is going sell a potentially valuable franchise like TMNT for cheap, if they sell it will be for a high price, because Viacom will want to be well compensated for it if someone else sees value in it.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Regardless, the sentiment behind the saying remains true today, no big company is going sell a potentially valuable franchise like TMNT for cheap, if they sell it will be for a high price, because Viacom will want to be well compensated for it if someone else sees value in it.

The sentiment behind the saying isn't always true and that's all I need to say.

 

[RDG]

Should've put this here before, but Rise of the TMNT has already been removed from weekdays AND Saturday mornings; in its place: Alvinnn!!! on weekdays and Henry Danger and Adventures of Kid Danger on Saturdays; this isn't the first time Nicktoons has removed a TMNT show from weekdays; they also removed TMNT 2012 from weekdays TWICE;from spring-summer 2017 AND late summer 2018

 

[kanc]

Should've put this here before, but Rise of the TMNT has already been removed from weekdays AND Saturday mornings; in its place: Alvinnn!!! on weekdays and Henry Danger and Adventures of Kid Danger on Saturdays; this isn't the first time Nicktoons has removed a TMNT show from weekdays; they also removed TMNT 2012 from weekdays TWICE;from spring-summer 2017 AND late summer 2018

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Rise of the TMNT is still showing on Nicktoons for next week according to zap2it, same with TMNT still shows 10am every Sundays, so I dont know where you're getting the source that's taken off Nicktoons lineup.

 

[RDG]

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Rise of the TMNT is still showing on Nicktoons for next week according to zap2it, same with TMNT still shows 10am every Sundays, so I dont know where you're getting the source that's taken off Nicktoons lineup.

i didn't say it was removed from the lineup completely; just weekdays and Saturday mornings