B:TAS "Holiday Knights" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Bird Boy]

Discuss this classic Batman: The Animated Series episode, the first of the The New Batman Adventures era!

Episode #086 - Holiday Knights
Original Airdate - September 13th, 1997. - Fifth Season Premiere

Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy kidnap Bruce Wayne with Ivy's hypnotic lipstick, and use his credit cards to treat themselves to a Christmas shopping spree; Bullock and Montoya stake out a Gotham Department Store for pick pockets, but in actuality, it turns out to be the return of Clayface; Joker plans to kill all the people celebrating in Gotham Square on New Year's Eve with a sonic weapon. It is up to Batman and Robin to stop him before the stroke of midnight.

Comments?

 

[The Penguin]

Airing tonight at 6pm on Cartoon Network - what a coincidence!

 

[Bleu Unicorn]

[color=63B8FF]Fifty-five shopping days till Christmas!

The fact that this episode originally aired before "Sins of the Father" will always be annoying to me. As it completely had me confused as to who Robin was. When I first saw this, I wasn't too thrilled with some of the new designs either. Ivy looks pretty cool and so does the Bat-team and I wasn't so upset with Clayface -- Joker was just terrible, though. And I'll admit it has taken me a long time to get used to the literal TNBA style (though some of the re-designs are just terrible imho).

Anyway, my biggest let down with this episode is the use of Harley who's start of lessening character development begins here, for me. "Mad Love" and even "Joker's Millions" make up for it a bit. But this episode really starts it and she never truly recovers from it. I know I'm biased 'cause I just love her to bits, but it's the truth and it's painful to watch.

The little shorts that make up the episode, while entertaining, really aren't filled with any depth whatsoever -- and apparently Gothamites are Christmas shopper procrastinators (so am I), which is kind of humorous to think about.

All in all, ntohgin special for me in this one, 3.5 stars because it is different, though I still am debating if it's a good different.[/color]

 

[unknown hero]

talk about starting a series off with a bang this was one of my favorite tnbas episodes. beautiful artwork, hilarious gags, and all too many great moments to count. 3 good short storys that go right to the punchline

my only real dissappointment would have to be the introduction to the new joker design, it just doesn't seem right having the complete lack of detail to his face, though the eyes are rather creepy

 

[BeastBoyWonder]

It's not exactly a story drenched with emotion and filled with depth, but it makes for a very fun diversion. Nothing spectacular, but it shows some fun scenes well.

 

[TheScarecrow]

A very nice episode that had some great Holiday spirit.

The bit with Harley and Ivy is cute. That is really all I need to say about that.

I don't see why Clayface would engage in petty pick pocketing (I mean really, this is Clayface here), but the comedic bits with Bullock and Montoya were very funny indeed (when it comes to Santa, Bullock's not exactly Tim Allen). The fight scenes between Batgirl and Clayface were nice too.

The Joker's TNBA redesign, incase you forgot, sucks the drizzling crap and likes it. However, this was a nice story that actually showed The Joker's victims as dead (which isn't something Fox would've let them do for sure), and it had the famous sound bite that would later be used in Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker (god, if only they had used THAT design for TNBA).

My favorite part of course, was where Jim Gordon and Batman had coffee together. Very touching scene (and even a little surreal after viewing Over The Edge two days earlier).

All and all, I'd give it ***1/2

 

[Webryder]

I think people can be a bit too hard on this episode.

I mean come on people, it was just meant to be fun with as much holiday spirit as you can have in an episode of Batman without it breaking the law. Sure Joker's design was terrible, there was little to no real plot and it had logic holes gallore (like why didn't Ivy and her female partner in crime get the police called on 'em soon as they stepped foot in those stores or how they were gonna use Waynes credit cards without him to sign for them .....to name two?), but Dini did what he set out to do in this ep. which was have Batman go up against a bunch of cartoonish villains on Christmas. It's too bad the rest of the supposedly more serious TNBA eps. almost all suffered from the same formula (minus the Christmas part).

Also of partcular interest to note is Clayfaces "separating himself into alternate consciousnesses to rob 4 places at once" stealing techniques seen here which serves as a subtle prelude to the events shown in "Growing Pains" where he took his abilities to the fullest extent of creating another being completely independent of himself.

 

[mbaker]

Another fun episode that shows us holiday cheer in the dark world of Gotham City. Excelent animation, too. Ivy dosen't look too bad this time around. Her old designs somehow came through in this episode (I.E. Her head wasn't as big.) Bullock and Montoya's stake out at the mall was pretty amusing (Sure I'm santa. Wanna see my gun?) Another feather inthe cap for Paul Dini.

 

[n8twing]

a fun diverting episode.

did it ever bug anyone else that some the NEW ADVENTURES episodes seemed just plain out or order?

HOLIDAY KNIGHTS before SINS OF THE FATHER [we see Robin before he's introduced!]
OLD WOUNDS so late in the series, after it seemed Nightwing ALREADY mended fences, to a degree, in earlier eps
HOLIDAY KNIGHTS before GROWING PAINS, where we find out how Clayface survived after MUDSLIDE

they shoulda done
SINS OF THE FATHER
then OLD WOUNDS
then GROWING PAINS
then HOLIDAY KNIGHTS

<<and it had the famous sound bite that would later be used in Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker (god, if only they had used THAT design for TNBA).
>>

in the commentary of ROTJ, the creators admit they simplified Joker TOO much in NEW ADVENTURES. They said the Joker design in ROTJ was their 'definitive' Joker design.

 

[czyznyck99]

This wasn't a bad episode, but like most, I never got its purpose as the season premiere. Also, the fact that they did three shorts instead of one entire episode was a nice touch.

3 stars.

Later.

 

[Jedigreedo]

Pretty amusing episode, the Clayface story wasn't all that great but the parts with Bullock were great and hey, we got to see Batgirl strip. Well sorta...

Anyway the Joker story was rather amusing (though I wonder what happened to all the Joker masks. ) and the Gordon with Batman moment was pretty cool, too bad they never did more of them.

 

[mbaker]

Was it Timm & Company's fault, or was it Kids WB's fault that the episodes were out of order?

 

[TimTwoFace]

I despise this episode. In a nutshell, it shows everything I DIDN'T like about the switch from BTAS to TNBA.

One: The actual storyline was terrible - splitting a show into three vignettes didn't work for me. There was no real sense of building suspension or emotion like there was in ALMOST GOT 'IM or LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHTS; it's just a bunch of stuff that happens. I have no problem with "lighter fare" in the Batman world (like HARLEY & IVY or BEWARE THE CREEPER), but those lighter episodes had darker undertones. This episode is just Christmas-themed zaniness. It worked in the comic it was based upon, but not as an episode.

Two: Sure, it was my first exposure to the new designs, and I was not a fan of Ivy's - and the Joker was horrendous. Thank god they fixed him up for ROTJ.

Three: The sound quality is hideous. Other early episodes had this same problem - everything up until YOU SCRATCH MY BACK (the first five new episodes). It's really warbly - and no, it's not just my VCR. Every time I've seen this ep on TV it's been the same.

Four: Two many characters. I could never really appreciate any of them in the story.

So as a result, 2.5 stars is the highest I'd ever give for this episode. Even with top-notch animation.

-Tim

 

[JohnStewart-GL]

I thought this was a great holiday special. I agree with blueunicorn when the first aired i was confused who Robin was.

 

[The Guard]

Ok. I'm going to whine again.

Did it bother anyone else that after The Joker made his threat to kill a bunch of people, people still went out and congregated for New Year's, and then PUT ON JOKER MASKS TO CELEBRATE? How stupid are Gotham's citizens? I mean, by this point, The Joker was a well known villain, his image was very well known, and Gothamites had to know what he was capable of. I also thought it was kind of stupid that the huge bell didn't kill him or shatter his arm into paste.

 

[I.R Joey]

I thought it was pretty hillarious how the three carollers in the cafe where artists on the show.

I liked this ep personally, it really did show off the look of TNBA after a 2 year absebse for me back in 97.

and it had some good lines to.

Harley-"We killed him."
Ivy-"Oh well we where going to do it anyway."

Bullock-"Sure I'm Santa wanna see my gun!"

 

[mbaker]

That question about Joker's masks is A good one. Did they have some kind of mind controle chemical laced in them like Harley, and Ivy's lipstick? Maybe that's what had them under his controle. Not the best theory, but I seriously doubt that the good people of Gotham City are as inept as the people of Townsville. (Either that, or Mister J. should've hired A better publisist to spread the word for him. wouldn't want to give himself away.) By the way, who were the "artists" in the bar singing Christmas carols? Anyboy know.

 

[BeastBoyWonder]

The whole episode was silly, and not meant to be "realistic". That was the point. The jokes, the more light-hearted happenings, the fact that the bell didn't hurt the Joker severely or kill him, and things like that all clued us in to this fact. It was a little "Christmas" type episode, and I thought that it worked wonderfully for what it was intended to be.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I enjoyed this episode. It has been my "Holy Grail" Batman episode for several years...yesterday was the first time I'd seen it. Finally!!!

I had heard that this was a crappy episode for so long that I had no pre-conceived ideas about it. I really did enjoy it. The sillyness of it didn't bother me either. I thought that showing the Joker's dead, grinning victims kind of counter-balanced the goofiness. I thought that the camera angles and tight spaces in the Clayface segment really made him seem huge, menacing, and dangerous.

Also, loved the little end sequence with Gordon and the Bat meeting in the little diner on New Years. See, this episode actually revealed a little more about Gordon and Batman's friendship. Can't always say that about many other episodes. I love those kind of little touches in this series.

Not in my top twenty but not in my bottom twenty either. I liked it.

 

[Viper]

IMO, truly one of the best episodes of all! I found all three parts enjoyable! This was also the first ep with Poison Ivy's new look--it was a lot better than the original.