B:TAS "Holiday Knights" Talkback (Spoilers)

[David the Joker]

I always do like Christmas episodes, and this was so different than "Christmas with the Joker". This episode was great cause it had 3 parts and 4 wonderful villians. Isnt it funny that all the villians in this episode appeared on Justice League. Harley and Ivy looked great at the begining of the episode, and I loved how they controled Bruce and then he got mad! Clayface and Batgirl's story was short, but cool, I did like Bullock as Santa and Montaya as a sexy elf. And finally, Batman & Robin vs the Joker, this was short but at least the Joker had good lines and laughed alot (which made me sort of forget about his horrible design). If this episode was done with the JL animation it would be 10times better, but this was still well done. Finally, I enjoyed Batman and Gordan's talk and Batman disappears, but nice enough to pay.

 

[shoujoaifan]

Hehheh, I like the part where the nerdy kid goes "OOOH NOOO!", and ironically, when he starts saying "OOOH..." BEFORE Officer Santa gets up Adds a little something to something already great.

Speaking of which, dear ol' St. Nick, Detective, showed he had caring side when the one girl shows up. Poor thing. I bet her pop will appreciate that he's not forgotten.

Okay, enough being serious. Now, if Commissioner Gordon wants to get serious, he better learn to go without the cheese steak next year

 

[Weibart]

i loved this ep. i remember a lot of firsts and wows when i first saw this. like harley & ivy's apartment room, and harley's lack of clothing and the red light outside their window, thinkin' sting. i wasn't much of a big fan of the montage scene, but it was cute. i have a feeling shane glines designed a lot of their outfits, cause it seems he draws a lot of ladies for the shows. the clayface short was fun. bullock's lines were very funny. those kids looked like caricatures of the creative team. with the joker story, i remember how surprised i was when bats got shot. that's always stuck in my mind, as one of those first instances where i realized this show got away with a little more thant the previous series. again, the creative team made cameos as the drunken carolers in the coffee shop. there was timm, dini, and i dunno who the third one was.

factoid: the tape telling of joker's scheme is the same one old bruce wayne watches in rotj. "A countdown of victims which will end at midnite, unless our dear dark knight stops me first..." ringing any bells?

 

[Anarky]

factoid: the tape telling of joker's scheme is the same one old bruce wayne watches in rotj. "A countdown of victims which will end at midnite, unless our dear dark knight stops me first..." ringing any bells?


re-animated w/ the current Joker design though.

funny to see timm & dini caricatured as the carollers.
i think they were also depicted in kara's room "Comfort and Joy"
they probably use these as xmas cards to their peers.

i wonder if the kids from Flash's nightmare "Only A Dream" were also caricatures

 

[Anarky]

It's "Madre de Dios!" Which means "Mother of God!"

montoya also drops some spanish in "Harley and Ivy"
during one of their getways, Montoya and her partner are in hot pursuit until Ivy pops out her tires w/ her wristheld crossbow. montoya says "Que' mala suerte" which mean "What bad luck"

also in "P.O.V.", after Bullock lies to the Internal Affairs guy, she turns to Harvey and says "Que cara.", which mean "What face" but better translates to "What Nerve."

 

[Bevandera]

Harley's line

Harley: "Gimme some sugar, baby!"

That line cracks me up every time.

She delivered it perfectly.

 

[Revelator]

Much more fun than a mediocre piece of nothing like 'Christmas With the Joker.'
Almost everyone has whined in unison about how supposedly terrible the Joker's design was, so I'd like to march to a different beat and say that I think it's an excellent look--the sharp points, eerily simple contours, grinning skull eyes and all. The reverse eye-scheme--blacks instead of whites--reminds us that the Joker is the living inverse of normality and decency.

Many viewers were introduced to Robin in this episode, and he made a much better impression here than in the lousy 'Sins of the Fathers.' In fact, at times he's downright cute; I loved those little touches like having him sit cross-legged in front of the TV in Gordon's office, or him snatching away evidence and peering at it very intently like a Junior-league Sherlock, or how Batman can leap on top of a bus in one move but Robin can only barely make it and has to wriggle on.

I agree that the animation was quite good. This was the first episode of TNBA I ever saw and I was very pleased that all the bugs in the overrated, baggy BTAS designs had been worked out. But I do have one complaint--the best part of the comic this episode was based on was a poignant Mr.Freeze story, which would've worked perfectly in animation except that Dini made the stupid mistake of not allowing Nora Fries to stay dead. Without the ballast of the Freeze story, "Holiday Knights" comes off as a little to light and airy--the Gordon/Batman coda seems like a breath of fresh air that whiffs by far too fast. You can never have too many scenes with just Batman and Gordon, and both BTAS and TNBA always had too few.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Much more fun than a mediocre piece of nothing like 'Christmas With the Joker.'
Almost everyone has whined in unison about how supposedly terrible the Joker's design was, so I'd like to march to a different beat and say that I think it's an excellent look--the sharp points, eerily simple contours, grinning skull eyes and all. The reverse eye-scheme--blacks instead of whites--reminds us that the Joker is the living inverse of normality and decency.

You do have a point in that it made him look more inhuman. But my problem is that the design justs makes Joker look too goofy to ever take seriously, much less be chilled and scared by.

Obviously the Bruce Timm agreed, or he wouldn't have redesigned him for Return Of The Joker. Now THAT is a Joker that gives me nightmares!

 

[ComicPhanatic]

"Holiday Knights" was a fun-filled "Batman" episode rich with moments of tension and excitement. The team-up of Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy was a clever and effective combination. Poor Bruce Wayne was helpless at their mercy, but in the end he managed to escape their clutches and endure. The appearance of the Joker was delightful, even though it was short lived. That final confrontation scene between Batman and Joker (plus Joker's henchmen) was awesome, particularly when the bell fell and when Batman orginally attacked the villain in the head with a batarang. Bullock and Montoya are always the "odd couple". The gruff Bullock clearly has a heart of gold; this was obvious when he was Santa reaching out to the kids (and giving one some money as a present). The unexpected arrival of Clayface brought about super action-packed moments. I liked how Batgirl was able to defeat him, plus some aid from Bullock and Montoya. Commissioner Gordon and Batman's relationship is the same as ever, one relying on the help of the other but without knowing "the truth". What a way to ring in the holidays and the new year for Gotham City!

 

[Simpler Simon]

But I do have one complaint--the best part of the comic this episode was based on was a poignant Mr.Freeze story, which would've worked perfectly in animation except that Dini made the stupid mistake of not allowing Nora Fries to stay dead.

I've never read the comics - what was the Mr. Freeze story about?

About the actual episode itself - pretty good, better than Christmas with the Joker but I think Comfort and Joy tops it. It has more meaning for me now than it did on the initial airing, now that I have a better understanding of the Batman/Gordon dynamic.

4 stars.

 

[czyznyck99]

This wasn't a bad episode, but like most, I never got its purpose as the season premiere. Also, the fact that they did three shorts instead of one entire episode was a nice touch.

3 stars.

Later.

That's what happens when I drink too much eggnog. I take it back. 1.5 stars.

Later.

 

[Nick K.]

I love this episode every time i see it. I remember teh first time i was so excited Batman was coming back. It was a fun ep, which was what it was meant to be. I love Harley & ivy's parts in this ep, they really make a nice little girl team, showcased later in Girl's Nite Out. Clayface coming back is great but my fav will always be teh Batman Gordon Part! Batman rules, bring it back to tv!!!!

 

[Supremus]

As a season premiere, this was perhaps an odd one, but as a Christmas episode, it was just excellent. It's actually one of my favorite TNBA episodes, and I am even one of the few people who didn't really mind the new Joker design. I was never that big a fan of the classic BTAS Joker design, but my favorite one is the ROTJ design, which is sort of a combination of the two.

Anyway, back to Holiday Knights, the only thing I didn't like about this episode was Harley and Ivy's shopping sequence, the rest was great. Nice art, well written, good voices, good animation, except maybe a few parts of the Joker story. I really miss the "old" non-digital cartoons. The falling snow in the first episode looked so much better and much more atmospheric than the crappy looking snow in the recent JL episode Comfort & Joy.

Apart from all the good stuff that other people have already mentioned, one of my favorites scenes from this episode was when Barbara changes to her uniform in the shopping center. No, not for the obvious reasons, but the change from civilian to superhero is such a classic ingredient that we don't see often enough, and it was well done in an understated realistic kind of way, as opposed to when Superman rips open his shirt in spectacular fashion and flies off.

4.5 stars for a classic episode

 

[Darkseid]

Good episode, I think it's better than Christmas with the Joker but not by a whole lot. Not a great ep, but fun. My favorite segment is the New Year's Eve Joker showdown.

Although I'd like to know more about why Clayface has become a thief. Maybe he needs the money to fund his latest possible cure. That would make sense.

I've never read the comics - what was the Mr. Freeze story about?

Freeze breaks out of prison to visit his wife's grave on Christmas eve. It was their anniversary. Batman tries to stop him on the way there, and Freeze fights back, but once Freeze sees the grave and is able to visit her, he turns himself in peacefully to Batman. He just needed to be with her for that night.

 

[Simpler Simon]

Freeze breaks out of prison to visit his wife's grave on Christmas eve. It was their anniversary. Batman tries to stop him on the way there, and Freeze fights back, but once Freeze sees the grave and is able to visit her, he turns himself in peacefully to Batman. He just needed to be with her for that night.

I'm guessing this was written years ago, before Deep Freeze established that Nora was still alive? I had no idea it was that old...

I could picture them altering this story to have Freeze break out and visit a revived Nora, only to find that she's living happily with her new husband. It could add a little depth to his later appearance in Cold Comfort.

 

[b.t.]

But I do have one complaint--the best part of the comic this episode was based on was a poignant Mr.Freeze story, which would've worked perfectly in animation except that Dini made the stupid mistake of not allowing Nora Fries to stay dead.

whether or not it was a "stupid mistake" to bring nora fries back to life -- i'm of two minds about it myself -- boyd kirkland and randy rogel actually performed that particular resurrection, not paul....

 

[Revelator]

whether or not it was a "stupid mistake" to bring nora fries back to life -- i'm of two minds about it myself -- boyd kirkland and randy rogel actually performed that particular resurrection, not paul....

Well, then I should reassign credit to where it is due. And since Dini wrote "Deep Freeze", he (and b.t., who shares story credit) deserve blame for what indeed was a stupid mistake. Except when deliberately ambiguous (such as the Joker's many off-screen demises), characters in BTAS and TNBA usually stayed dead once they croaked. Nora was just brought back as a plot device to give Freeze a new motivation, since Mr. Freeze's story was effectively begun and ended within "Heart of Ice." That great episode rendered Freeze so delicately that it made it nearly impossible for Freeze to return as a recurring standard villain-of-the-week...until that silly trick with Nora was pulled, leading to a crop of Mr. Freeze appearances that were all a thousand cuts below his introductory episode. (The first BTAS episode I saw by the way. I was 12, and deeply impressed--it was the best 21 minutes involving a superhero I'd ever seen before on TV or film. I'd never expected cartoon producers would really go the extra mile with Batman, and was delighted and grateful that they had.)

 

[b.t.]

Well, then I should reassign credit to where it is due. And since Dini wrote "Deep Freeze", he (and b.t., who shares story credit) deserve blame for what indeed was a stupid mistake. )

oh, THAT resurrection! d'oh!

thought you were talking about "sub zero"... i forgot all about "deep freeze".....probably because i don't think of her as actually "alive" in that story...

 

[Crow]

Off-topic, I don't s'pose you'd be able to help me with anything to do with CN Australia?

This is like asking an foreigner 'hey, you're from ___? D you know Bob?' and I understand that, but I thought I'd give it a go.

 

[Salvor]

Loved this one, can't believe some people actually have complaints about it Yeah the shopping scene had CHEESY written all over it but the rest made up for it. Especially loved the Joker and the Gordon sequences... so classic. So faithful to the great original comic book, in which I fell in love, more particularly in that last scene (with art by Dan Riba, if i recall well...)

And yeah, I did miss the moving Freeze story. It would have made for a particularly touching sequence in the episode. Then again, I liked Deep Freeze a lot so what the hell...