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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
That article seems like an overreaction. The headline is solely click bait intending to freak people out. What facts do they have to make such a bold claim anyway?
I agree. I recently read an article on Daily Kos that South Korea said that people who tested positive for the virus a second time aren't infectious. I didn't share it because it's a political site, but the news in the past week about the long-term effects of the virus has been positive.
 

Spideyzilla

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I agree. I recently read an article on Daily Kos that South Korea said that people who tested positive for the virus a second time aren't infectious. I didn't share it because it's a political site, but the news in the past week about the long-term effects of the virus has been positive.
Not to mention the fact that the article even casts doubt as to whether or not Netanyahu even said that. If you want an example of sensational journalism that just stokes fear, look no further.

This was a park in Toronto on the weekend, just days after the government allowed them to reopen. I've long thought that lockdown measures such as closing parks weren't entirely necessary and that people would make the right decisions. Seeing stuff like that, therefore, is beyond disheartening. There are estimates that there were 10,000 people there. And this is happening as cases are rising here in the province of Ontario while testing numbers are falling. I miss normalcy too, but this kind of stuff just pushes the return of normal life further down the road.
 

Wounded_Dragon

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Here's my fear of these fast tracked vaccines: with all the panic surrounding covid19, I suspect vaccines will almost be mandatory for a lot of people. So, hello essential workers, you're now the essential guinea pigs as well.
 
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Red Arrow

ça va nog wel
Oct 22, 2012
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Hertz might be going bankrupt.

It is unbelievable how companies that otherwise make a lot of profit are now struggling. This shows us that the money in many companies is not going to the people that keep it running...
 

creator

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Hertz might be going bankrupt.

It is unbelievable how companies that otherwise make a lot of profit are now struggling. This shows us that the money in many companies is not going to the people that keep it running...
Would you mind elaborating on this comment? Without money coming in companies cannot pay off debt. When companies cannot pay their debt they file for bankruptcy.
 

Red Arrow

ça va nog wel
Oct 22, 2012
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Would you mind elaborating on this comment? Without money coming in companies cannot pay off debt. When companies cannot pay their debt they file for bankruptcy.
European airport companies are also starting to say bankruptcy is coming. They made MASSIVE profits in the last 20 years, their bosses are amongst the riches people on this planet, yet these companies somehow can't survive a hibernation of a few months.
The debt part is exactly what I was talking about. The people who fund airport companies and Hertz are not the ones suffering during this crisis, they are the ones that are causing this. If the company they funded declares bankruptcy, they will make less money in the long term. Can't they see that?

I find it very frustrating that I have to learn one economics course after the other, and the professor always makes it look like the current system is so perfect and optimized, but clearly, it is not. The current system has no shock-resistance whatsoever.
 

Asa

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I feel like the idea of taking away our old traditions like handshaking, hugging, and kissing is a really sad thing and it makes me concerned that news articles, websites and TV stations want all of this to go away after the pandemic is over. Why do they think it's a good idea? And why do they keep saying stuff like "public gatherings, crowds, etc. are now a thing of the past"?
 
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AdrenalineRush1996

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May 13, 2016
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Hertz might be going bankrupt.

It is unbelievable how companies that otherwise make a lot of profit are now struggling. This shows us that the money in many companies is not going to the people that keep it running...
Do you have an article on this to back your evidence?
 

Red Arrow

ça va nog wel
Oct 22, 2012
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I read it in my newspaper. (in Dutch)
The translation of one section:
Credit rating agencies such as Fitch and Moody have already warned in recent weeks about the declining creditworthiness of car rental loans. Investors erred on the side of caution and sold their papers. The safest tranches were traded at 93 percent of their original value last week, the least secure at 65 percent, the Wall Street Journal wrote last week. In three weeks time, $840 million worth of Hertz loans changed hands from owner, a volume reached in three months last year.

In those circumstances, Hertz failed to get payment delay from its lenders. The company reportedly had proposed to suspend interest payments on 14 billion in asset-backed securities for an indefinite period. The major lenders did not agree to that. What followed was a plan B: to proceed to a gradual sale of the fleet, in order to satisfy the creditors with the proceeds.
So a few investors want to get rid of their hold because they are caution, and then everyone starts doing that. They all start asking for money at the worst possible moment.

But if they hadn't done that, then Hertz could have simply done its job this summer, as many countries (Greece, Italy, Spain etc.) are planning to reopen the tourism sector, and it would have been as if the last few months hadn't happened.
 
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creator

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European airport companies are also starting to say bankruptcy is coming. They made MASSIVE profits in the last 20 years, their bosses are amongst the riches people on this planet, yet these companies somehow can't survive a hibernation of a few months.
The debt part is exactly what I was talking about. The people who fund airport companies and Hertz are not the ones suffering during this crisis, they are the ones that are causing this. If the company they funded declares bankruptcy, they will make less money in the long term. Can't they see that?

I find it very frustrating that I have to learn one economics course after the other, and the professor always makes it look like the current system is so perfect and optimized, but clearly, it is not. The current system has no shock-resistance whatsoever.
I appreciate your response.

I'm not convinced that the lenders are culpable. I believe that Hertz's bankruptcy is the result of decreased incoming cash flow due to coronavirus travel restrictions and poor debt management.

From 2015-2019 Hertz has taken on $9.4, $12.3, $12.9, $14.6, $16.0 (billions, USD) of debt and used it to pay off existing debt and maintain cash on hand. With the exception of 2015-2016, the company has increased their total debt every year culminating in $22.9 (billions, USD) at the end of 2019. It's a reasonable method if a company has steady cash flow and interest rates drop. However, the increasing dependence on debt makes a company more sensitive to economic downfalls. This is what has happened to Hertz.
 
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Red Arrow

ça va nog wel
Oct 22, 2012
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So a bit like what Netflix is doing?
Do you think that is also what is going on with European airports?

I also appreciate your responses :)
 
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creator

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So a bit like what Netflix is doing?
Do you think that is also what is going on with European airports?

I also appreciate that your responses :)
According to Netflix's cash flow statement they're not repaying any debt. They're most likely using the money to finance content production and purchases for their service. They're also recording a profit - $2 billion USD in 2019. In comparison, Hertz has not recorded a profit in two years.

I don't know anything about European airports so I can't comment on them. If you have any information or thoughts on how they're handling the coronavirus please share them. I know I'd like to hear it and I bet others would as well.
 

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