"Young Justice: Phantoms" Season Four Talkback, Part II (Spoilers)

[CyberCubed]

God do I hate Klarion the witch boy. Easily one of the most annoying and OVERUSED antagonists of the show. How many times do we have to see this character?

Can't they send him to the great beyond or something? Out of all the villains they keep using the same ones over and over.

 

[Magmaster12]

I'm getting really sick of Klarion he has shown up more than most of the other team members this season and that fight scene was entirely pointless because nothing of value was gained.

 

[Yojimbo]

I'm getting really sick of Klarion he has shown up more than most of the other team members this season and that fight scene was entirely pointless because nothing of value was gained.

They got the bus idea which Zatanna should have thought of.

 

[colomb]

Perhaps the significance of the Klarion scene is the Light being made aware of what's going on with Superboy and the Zods. Otherwise, it was just to add some action scenes to the episode.

 

[Yojimbo]

From the #YJParty feed

-The Time-Sphere’s rainbow colored multi-dimensional shifting effect caused by Kaizer-Thrall was designed by FX animator Timothy N. Ryan. Each color is a dimensional “echo” of the sphere as it transitions through dimensions.

-The Phantom Zone was designed to look like a photo negative. I designed the color for Superboy. Art director Brian A. Johnson and his team designed the incredible background lighting around the character color.

-Kaizer-Thrall’s zigzag beams are meant to be reminiscent of Darkseid’s Omega Beams.

-The green image coloration signifying events happening on the mental plane were designed by online editor Darren Griffiths.

-The Promethean Giant was inspired by this amazing Jack Kirby drawing from New Gods #5 (1971) and designed by Jerome Moore.

-Director Christina Sotta and Brandon Vietti worked together to figure how to make the Promethean move by rotating painted background layers- like a 2D, paper puppet. Traditional animation would never convey the massive scale.

-FX animators Timothy N. Ryan and Ami Goff made this Promethean energy geyser and multilayered “plasma pancake” look dangerous and awesome.

-Confirmed Crisis #7 nod.

-Confirmed Virgil and Noble live in the same building. Ha!

-Nightwing’s new Season 4 costume with blue shoulder armor and arm stripes was widely requested by our crew and designed by model supervisor Dou Hong.

-Confirmed Nightwing's board was a nod to G&V plotting the show.

-Confirmed Wizard of Oz nod.

-Klarion’s chaotic presence in the Tower of Fate causes the lights to dim- another example of colorgrading for story by online editor Darren Griffiths.

 

[Frontier]

Well, points to Bart and Chameleon Boy for trying, but I guess even a Speedster can't get a drop on a Kryptonian .

What better way to start of with Dick than back at the trapeze in Haly's Circus as Dan Danger? Actually wouldn't this be the time to go back to the Flying Grayson iconography? Maybe that still hits too close to home .

I kept expecting a Boston Brand cameo...

The Chalant shippers are going to have a field day with this episode, especially the beginning where Zee pops up in Dick's dressing room and oggles him shirtless. I was almost half expecting Dick to go "my girlfriend Babs" so people didn't get the wrong idea .

"I'm more of a headliner." Can this show just finally confirm Zatanna does the family business already? We're probably never going to get to see it on-screen anyways .

The protege of the World's Greatest Detective wastes no time gathering up and putting together the clues while at the same time gathering up the OG!Team so we can bring things together for the finale and finally have them all together to save Conner. You gotta love it .

Poor Clark can't just sit down for a cup of coffee anymore. Like, did Zee and Dick have to ambush him like that? They couldn't just text him that they wanted to talk? Although points to Clark for trying to maintain the Legions' secrecy as much as he could .

They mention Zatanna and Raquel being Dicks' exes which was established in the tie-in comic, but putting it out there...was there really any point to making Raquel an ex other than to emphasize Dick as a ladies man? It's not like it's ever factored into anything or really made a lot of sense .

I understand why they held back on bringing in M'Gann until they were absolutely sure about Conner, but I'm guessing that will be their next step. They might need Miss Martian if they want a better chance of stopping her brother, and she probably has some words for Lor-Zod too .

I was wondering how long they would draw out the Zods finding out about Conners' identity, especially when he said he was a "Luthor," but then Conner reveals the House of El crest and falls back on all the background information he was programmed with to tell Zod and Ursa about the fate of Krypton and it's surviving children...as well as the potential power of a Yellow Sun within their grasp .

They were only supposed to be in there for 10 years? That seems...surprisingly light, since the Phantom Zone is usually treated as a life sentence. Maybe the circumstances behind the Zone being so terrible to be in made it easier to give them a lighter sentence ?

"Zor-El had a daughter." There it is! There's the first explicit mention of Kara in this universe! There's your buildup to the Maid of Might! I'm not sure if we're actually going to see Kara this season but man it was nice to hear that .

The way Zod said the word "Superman" sounded so...reverent. Like someone learning about their greatest nemesis for the first time yet at the same time not quite grasping how meaningful it is. I feel like the fact that Conner kept emphasizing that Kal-El was dead is setting up a big moment in the climax where a free Zod and Ursa have to contend against a Superman they were told was dead since Superman is probably one of the only beings in the universe who can go toe-to-toe with them. Then again, that might be me assuming too much as a fanboy given how much the adult heroes tend to contribute .

Summoning Klarion went...about as well as could be expected. Man, the OG!Team 97% back together and they basically were nothing against Klarion despite their experience and teamwork. They only survived because Zatanna forced him to answer his debt by the code of the Lords of Order and Chaos. But I guess they realized that the Magic School Bus's residual Phantom Zone energy might be the key they need to get into the Zone. Still cutting it pretty close there Zee .

Saturn Girl tells off Lor-Zod for trying to change too much in the timeline, not revealing that he never actually succeeded in killing Superboy. Boy won't that be a fun reveal .

So we're heading towards Oa? I mean, I doubt Lor-Zod is dumb enough to take on the Green Lantern Corps. who are already out for his head after what happened to Tomar-Re, so I assume they'll use stealth, but I hope we get some cameos from Oa. And maybe we'll end up with the GLC, the Team, and some Kryptonian baddies for the finale ?

Phantom Girl did an amazing job playing dead. So is Tinya going to try and talk Conner into leaving the Phantom Zone? Is she strong enough to get them out? Will she be able to get through to him when his personality has been reset and he's possibly fallen under Zod's sway ?

The Kaiser-Thrall...is powered by a child!? Dear lord, beyond wondering whether the child is a legit DC character, I just want them to get that poor child out of there .

Soranik Natu! Her animated debut! Honestly it's cool to see Soranik there but her presence kind of asks a lot of questions...is Sinestro still a GL? Has he turned yet? Is she aware he's her father? Is Katma Tui dead, given Soranik ends up being the GL for Korugar after her death? Is there more than one Korugar GL? I'm kind of wondering about a lot .

 

[Yojimbo]

Christina Sotta reveals Andres Velasco's boards of Orion vs. Lor-Zod in "Odyessey of Death!" had to be toned down.

 

[Fone Bone]

Young Justice: Phantoms "Rescue And Search"

I expressed great frustration last week over how unfair I am to the show. And my biggest weakness is finding a bunch of nice things to say during "good" episodes. It's easier to point out a failing instead of saying "I liked that," about most everything.

This episode is a bit of a gift in that I WILL be able to do a point by point dissection of things I liked. Why? Because it was actually an outstanding episode! I very much owe it to the fans of this show to talk about everything that worked like gangbusters and landed beautifully. If only because I don't tend to love very many episodes of the show. While I love this one, I'm going to honor it as best I can, and point out as much awesomeness as possible. It's the least I can do.

I like that this show's version of Klarion is the very first time I've seen of that character that is an actual threat, both physical, and even mental. And I love that about this version of the character. My only suggestion to Weisman about him is to perhaps let the Lord of Chaos' arc be less planned out ahead of time going forward.

I thought Dick's detective work was outstanding. Rocket and Zatanna expressed disbelief over Dick getting from nowhere to almost the entire thing, but isn't that exactly how Sherlock Holmes works? If Dick really IS The World's Greatest Detective's greatest apprentice, Sherlock Holmes-style astounding leaps are to be expected.

Superboy is not doing so well in the Phantom Zone. I love Phantom Girl waking up to essentially tell him, "Dude, shut up. You aren't helping."

Zatanna wishing the Monarchs lose was great because it's very clear that's the only thing in their frustrating conversation Clark cared about.

It is a VERY Weisman storytelling technique to have a villain suggest a hero cooperate because who knows? Maybe they can gain the upper hand later. I tend to call b.s. on most Weisman storytelling techniques of this nature. This specific idea is sound however, and I like it because Zod is treating everybody like a grown-up. I think a lot of Weisman's villains are too meta and self-aware to be believable. I liked Zod's argument because not only was it true, but it was the correct way to get Bart to do what he wanted. I liked that.

I've been hating almost all the tags this year, but that one was super interesting.

If I hated the episode, I probably would have done a longer review. But I think this review got to the bullet points of why this episode was great, and why I suspect both this arc, and maybe even the end of the season have the potential to end strongly. We'll see. All I know is I unreservedly loved this week. *****.

 

[Yojimbo]

They were only supposed to be in there for 10 years? That seems...surprisingly light, since the Phantom Zone is usually treated as a life sentence. Maybe the circumstances behind the Zone being so terrible to be in made it easier to give them a lighter sentence ?

Or Krypton's justice system had a revolving door issue.

"Zor-El had a daughter." There it is! There's the first explicit mention of Kara in this universe! There's your buildup to the Maid of Might! I'm not sure if we're actually going to see Kara this season but man it was nice to hear that .

Maybe the end tag of the season or scene during the end credits entails her ship arriving. I've wondered if maybe a comet was suddenly on a collision course with and destroy Happy Harbor in 2030 but Superboy stopped it and discovered it was really a spacecraft with Kara in it that exited out of wormhole and coincidentally was on that trajectory.

So we're heading towards Oa? I mean, I doubt Lor-Zod is dumb enough to take on the Green Lantern Corps. who are already out for his head after what happened to Tomar-Re

Yes and yes, but remember, he's got the Emerald Eye of Ekron. He could dispatch it and use it as a distraction while he tries to steal the Kaizer-Thrall. It'll be interesting to see what power set they give it on this show as it's varied in the comic books like at one point it was a prototype of the power ring.

 

[ShadowStar]

Oh gosh, the Lor-Zod story arc is intense. I wonder if M'comm will try to double-cross him though? After all, M'comm is no fool and he has seen Lor-Zod leave Mantis to be captured, despite the fact that he said he owed Mantis a debt of gratitude.

I'm worried for Dick Grayson. All that talk of his "trip to the stars" and "the far reaches of the galaxy" (I believe Jack Haly said something to that effect) and then Klarion (who we know can travel through time and space) said, "Time's running out, Bird Wonder!" All of this leads me to think that perhaps Dick will die or be lost in space. For those who think I'm reading too much into this, remember how Zatanna's "you are my best students" line turned out to be very significant... Well, there might be similar foreshadowing here.

 

[Last Spider]

So all that stuff with Klarion was completely pointless and nothing new was learned, because Zatanna already knew about the bus, and nothing Klarion said even connected the bus to the Phantom Zone.

 

[Frontier]

Oh gosh, the Lor-Zod story arc is intense. I wonder if M'comm will try to double-cross him though? After all, M'comm is no fool and he has seen Lor-Zod leave Mantis to be captured, despite the fact that he said he owed Mantis a debt of gratitude.

I'm ready to see someone beat the tar out of Malefak .

 

[reflection01]

They got the bus idea which Zatanna should have thought of.

Perhaps the significance of the Klarion scene is the Light being made aware of what's going on with Superboy and the Zods. Otherwise, it was just to add some action scenes to the episode.

So all that stuff with Klarion was completely pointless and nothing new was learned, because Zatanna already knew about the bus, and nothing Klarion said even connected the bus to the Phantom Zone.

My take on the Klarion scene was that Zatanna needed something from Klarion when he didn’t need anything so she didn’t get it. So Zatanna wants to go to when Klarion did need something so she can cut a deal.

I don’t have a problem with how often we see Klarion. It makes sense that Young Justice uses a perpetually young villain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Last Spider]

The Klarion stuff would be fine if it wasn't a flat out waste of time that added nothing.

 

[Fone Bone]

The Klarion stuff is fun in and of itself. That means it's not a waste of time. It's an actual selling point of the series. You want a waste of time, check out Beast Boy's grief. The Klarion stuff is great.

 

[reflection01]

The Klarion stuff would be fine if it wasn't a flat out waste of time that added nothing.

If you want plot points that pay off immediately in the same episode, this isn’t the show for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Fone Bone]

If you want plot points that pay off immediately in the same episode, this isn’t the show for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Be fair. Even if the plot points with Klarion NEVER paid off, they are fun to watch. I dispute the idea that the only worthwhile plot points are those that "Pay off" (whatever that means). Entertaining for the sake of entertaining has just as much value. In fact I'd argue it has MORE value.

I'd take a thousand Klarion nonsense scenes that don't go anywhere to 1 extra scene of The Light Master Planning. Although that's probably just me.

 

[reflection01]

Agreed. I’ll be disappointed if the season ends with Zod and Vandal Savage shaking hands. “Welcome to The Light.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Last Spider]

If you want plot points that pay off immediately in the same episode, this isn’t the show for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What pay off is there supposed to here?
Nothing is even slightly set up, Klarion showing up is completely pointless other than adding in a fight scene, he doesn't divulge any new information or say anything that the heroes don't already know so what about anything that happened there was even relevant?
God I swear, people can't admit this show has even the tiniest flaws in it's writing.

 

[Yojimbo]

Zatanna only thought of trying to force Klarion to help them save Conner.

It did not go as planned.

Klarion and Teekl had their banter. Klarion mentioned "bus." Zatanna heard them.

Zatanna realized she could have just utilized the school bus instead of summoning Klarion.

Nightwing has a new task. To be continued. Let's not over-analyze this.

EDIT: Weisman posted the spells cast in "Odnu!"