"Game Of Thrones" Season Eight Talkback (Spoilers)

[Fone Bone]

Game Of Thrones "Winterfell"

That was a lot to digest but my first iron-clad impression is that Daenerys is not as good at the politics thing as she thinks she is. I still think she'll win the Game of Thrones, but she makes it SO hard for herself with her righteousness. Jon Snow's biggest strength as a leader, which is perhaps something even Ned Stark didn't have, is his ability to see nuance. He didn't execute people if he didn't have to to make a statement. He was comfortable both in the power he had and the power he was willing to give up. Executing the Tarleys was the biggest of unforced errors on Dany's end. Yeah, the Tarleys sucked, but their one decent son was Jon's best friend. She didn't bother to find out that background before she did it, or even contemplate there would be consequences to her doing it. Sam would not have been inclined to EVER tell Jon the truth if he didn't have a personal reason to believe Dany shouldn't be trusted with power. And the reason he believes that is now a reason that Jon agrees with him about. He is going to be upset with Daenerys. The whole Heir to the Iron Throne thing doesn't REALLY matter to him. But Sam raised a very fair question: Jon was willing to give up his crown to unite the realms for the good of the north. Is Daenerys a good enough person to do the same thing for him? I personally don't think she is but I don't see this as being as huge of a problem family wise as the writers think I might. On some level they want me to be grossed out they're cousins and doing it. But Jaime raped his sister with no consequences whatsoever. It's amazing what things the writers will think upset me and what things won't.

But just based on the twincest I don't think a marriage alliance between Jon and Dany is out of the question, cousins or not. They could conceivably have a fairytale ending. The only question is whether Daenyrus would ever accept it. It would actually be a smart and prudent move on her end which is why I don't see her doing it. But things would have been a LOT easier for her if she hadn't executed Sam's family for essentially "neener neener neener".

I have to give props to Dany for at least having the courtesy to admit what she did to Sam's family in person, in the moment. But again, that's probably poor planning and not thinking about the consequences. It's admirable either way though.

Speaking of bogus executions, Cersei telling Euron Greyjoy that she has had people executed for less isn't a brag or a statement of fierce badassery. It's a sign of weakness and incompetence. Basically only fascists, and stupid fascists at that, execute people for rudeness. And this again brings me back uncomfortably to Daenerys. Granted a public rebuke does deserve a stern response. But going overboard was a sign of weakness not strength.

I love that Arya likes the dragons. Also liked that she defended Sansa and that she's happy to see Gendry too.

I don't agree with Sansa about much in this episode, and for sure her intelligence is overstated by Arya. But when she slams Tyrion by saying "I used to think you were the cleverest man I ever met," it doesn't matter if she's wrong about everything else, she's right that Tyrion is an idiot to trust Cersei. As seen in last season's finale, Cersei immediately went back on her word and betrayed everybody. I will never buy Sansa as the master manipulator in the Game of Thrones. But she doesn't have to be to understand Cersei is full of crap. Why doesn't Tyrion?

To be honest, that was a reunion I was looking forward to. Didn't go as cordially as I'd like, but it could have gone worse. I like Sansa saying Joffrey's wedding had it's moments. I am not sorry that little turd is gone either.

I was very worried about the boy tree climber at the beginning. Little kid climbers don't do well on this show.

Speaking of which, I think the show is crazy to ask me to sympathize with Jaime's guilt regarding Bran. I can understand that there is nuance to the Kingslayer stuff. But it's like Jamie is the worst redemption story the writers could give us otherwise. Forget the fact that he raped his sister so casually for a moment. He pushed an innocent kid out of a window and crippled him. Why should I ever give two craps about his guilt or his remorse? There are plenty of killers in prison who regret their actions. I don't think Oz would have been wise to turn their prisoners into heroic leading men we were supposed to admire.

It's interesting they completely revamped the main title for the last season. It makes sense because the entire landscape is now different, but the effects look much more computer generated and less hand-made than the earlier titles. It weird that they look less realistic than effects made nearly ten years ago. But as spiffy and professional as they are, they also are missing a great deal of the authentic medieval feel that first pop-up titles had.

Bronn and the naked women is the precise reason I often hate this show, and don't take it the least bit seriously. I supposed I should, but as long as it always does that, I can't. It's added nothing to either the story or the characters. It was simply designed to get the male viewers horny. I think there is definitely a place in society for soft-core cable porn. But I don't have to take it seriously.

I love the fact that Yara headbutts Theon upon him freeing her, and then they're cool. I love that. I especially love how understanding she is at him wanting to go back to Winterfell to fight for the Starks. The Greyjoys are a pretty miserable lineage. Theon and Yara are the only two decent ones, and frankly it's a stretch to even call Theon decent. He just doesn't look so sucky compared to his father and brother.

Varys is right about something. Tyrion is high and mighty about the ethics of torture and right and wrong. And yet he can't stop making cruel eunuch jokes. I'm supposed to think he's the good Lannister but I don't think he's all that good, or at least all that nice.

If Bronn takes Cersei up on her mission to kill Jamie and Tyrion, he's nuts. Not just because Cersei holds the losing hand in the Game of Thrones. It's that anyone who does that to her own brothers would do it to anyone, assassins she might want to disavow included. Cersei biggest weakness is that she has a stunning lack of friends because she's betrayed and killed them all. Bronn is not stupid. Surely he's noticed that, just based on what she is asking him to do. I resent the idea that Cersei is on the Iron Throne for the simple fact that she's almost as poor a planner as Stannis, and unlike Stannis has no good people in her ear. It's unfair somebody this stupid currently sits on the Iron Throne. She sucks as much as her son did.

That was an interesting premiere. Like last season, a lot happened in a short space of time. The show doesn't feel the need to pad things out or dawdle when the characters are already together and it's better for it. ****.

 

[Space Cadet]

A new episode airs tonight at 9 PM Eastern.

Episode 8.02: "The Rightful Queen"

Jaime is initially met with mistrust by both Daenerys and Sansa.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms" this is what I like to call "everyone sits around right before the final big battle conversing with one another" episode which I admit I don't watch a lot of live action TV series so I'm not really used to like having literally an entire 60 minutes doing that. Okay I guess the opening was about having Jamie defended enough (mostly by Brienne) not to kill him and there was a tactial meeting that pretty much went "yeah we can't win in a regular fight but if Bran is willing to act as a decoy so the Night King can try and off him so we can get at that guy to stop his army" but the rest were the characters sort of moping around most feeling it was there last night and making the uh... most of it. Honestly Arya's the only one who really did so as I do buy her wanting some from Gendry thinking they're as good as dead but the rest just feel like just a lot of talk. There are some good character bits mostly with Tyrion invite everyone to sit around and drink at a party and Jamie knighting Brienne but the rest felt pretty empty honestly. I get there's suppose to be this big dour feeling in the air and the atmosphere of everyone about to go to war is suppose to carry this one but... that honestly gets old when barely anything else happens plot wise in this one and there's like no action whatsoever. Granted it's pretty clear next week we're finally going to start those big action set pieces that were talked about the team doing for months upon months that is the reason it took so long for this season to come out but this little tease of it didn't do anything for me. Heck even the whole reveal with Jon telling Danearys of his true heritage felt unresolved (same with Sansa and Danearys almost striking a friendship before Sansa went "yeah if we win and you take the throne what's going to happen to the north exactly?") since we had to cut to something else and... made this a pretty empty episode. I get the feeling this is going to be the weak link of this season. Like at least the next episode is going to be a major action episode then the one after and we're going to have to resolve stuff at King's Landing which will be pretty exiting but not much in this one. Some good lines here and there (like Tyrion saying if he comes back as a white he'll go and march and kill Cersei) but yeah really lacking otherwise.

 

[Fone Bone]

Game Of Thrones "A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms"

A tentatively positive review, but there were things I did not like. However, it did put into sharp relief something I suspected last week, but had no way of knowing. This will probably wind up the best season of the show, whether this episode made me unhappy in a few places or not. Because everyone is together and they can finally do juicy character moments we have been waiting for for seasons on end. I never pictured we'd see Jaime and Bran have a talking scene together. And because Bran isn't angry, it means I don't have to be anymore either, which is a bit of a relief considering what the series was asking me to forgive. If Bran can forgive him enough that he doesn't reveal what he did to spare his life, I can at least tolerate his existence. And that's only the kind of scene you can do when all of the characters are together. So basically this will wind up the best season by default.

Jaime is very lucky he survived that courtroom. The first luck had simply to do with the fact that Bran didn't want him dead. All other luck paled in comparison to the fact that he would have been strung up no matter WHAT Brienne said if the truth came out.

The second lucky thing is having Brienne of Tarth even present. She is literally the only person besides Tyrion who would stick out their neck to vouch for them, and she's crazily in the same freaking room. And her vouch is so strong, it immediately settles the matter with Sansa, and Daenyrus can't further object without looking like a schmuck. What amazes me about Brienne's vouch is that her esteem is so high with both Sansa and the rest of the people in Winterfell, she didn't expend very much political capital to go out on that limb. In fact it could be argued she spent none. And Jaime DID later knight her gaining her esteem to everyone present. It was literally the least freaking thing Jaime could do for the woman who was the rare enough Godsend to actually be in the same freaking room when he actually needed her, God bless her.

Tormund perving on her will never get old. Although I found Tormund's origin story not as amusing the writers did. I thought it was outright disgusting. That was supposedly the joke, but for me it's, "Now I can't ever like or take the character seriously again." It's tough because he's already murdered a kid onscreen, but after that I'm like, "Nah."

For the record, Maisie Williams' semi-nude sex scene squicks me out. Just ick.

It struck me as a bit badly written that we didn't hear Jon's response over Dany telling him he has a claim to the Iron Throne. Because I can guess his response. He probably doesn't care. I could be wrong, but Jon Snow is not a guy who likes complications. Which is why he told Dany the truth. But I also don't think he wants the crown. I could be made a liar next week. But if I'm right, the scene is badly written because he wouldn't be staying silent, he'd immediately deny it. Perhaps he hasn't made up his mind. But if that's true, it's the wrong time to tell Dany anyways.

For the record, Jorah is right to defend Tyrion to Daenyrus (and God bless Sansa for doing it too, which I also loved), but I think Sansa nailed it when she pointed out that Dany trusted Cersei too. Yeah, it was on his advice. But she's obviously his sister so he couldn't be properly impartial, and she took the bad advice anyways. That's her fault, not his, if she actually calls the shots. She needs to own her mistakes, and Sansa points out Tyrion learns from his. And do you what that means? Dany has no way of knowing this, but as a viewer, I am well aware Tyrion has made fewer mistakes in the Game of Thrones than Daenyrus has. Far fewer. And the mistakes Tyrion made mostly negatively impacted himself, whereas Daenyrus has started revolutions and mass killings over her bumblings. The only reason I think that Dany needs to hold onto Tyrion is because even with the Cersei snafu, he's still way better at this than she is.

Here's an example of a mistake Dany made. Pulling apart from the hand-holding of Sansa upon her claiming the North would never bow again. If Dany were smart, she'd let Sansa have this instead of pulling away. Because it's not actually up to Sansa. Sansa is afraid Dany only wants the throne and nothing else. Pulling away when she did confirmed that idea rather than lessened it.

For the record, I do not actually see the problem Dany does of keeping the North a separate Kingdom. If Dany wants to rule everything simply because she can, she's doing it for the wrong reasons.

The smart thing Daenyrus pointed out to Sansa is that there is an equal argument Jon manipulated her. Because her going to Winterfell was Not In The Freaking Plan. And this detour and war with the dead could stop her claim to the Kingdom before it even begins, and has already cost her a dragon. Who's actually benefiting more here, Sansa?

Lady Mormont is fighting. I expected nothing less. She puts Sansa at that age to utter shame.

I loved all of the relationship stuff and the characters finally getting together with each other, and saying the things they needed to. But I'm knocking off a star and a half because that nude sex scene with Maisie Williams squicked me out. Completely. ***1/2.

 

[Space Cadet]

A new episode airs tonight at 9 PM Eastern.

Episode 8.03: "The Long Night"

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"The Long Night" - You know I'm sure some people are going to complain especially about the ending of this one but honestly once it going I was really into this one. Granted this is the much promised action episode and though it kind of does take awhile it actually does deliver on the action. I think an issue from the beginning of the battle (not with the stuff of gathering the troops or having Melissandre come to light the torches as that's just building up the tension) is due to the night king's power of making it snow flurries everywhere it makes a lot of the stuff really hard to see thus it was hard to get a grip on what was happening at first especially out in the field. Once we actually got to the castle it was a lot easier to see everything and you did get some pretty impressive action beats. Granted for a battle that was kind of promised "oh this one you can't get out of with your plot armor" it did feel especially with Jon Snow dodging all of those flaming dragon bolts that some of our mains were a bit too invincible at points but you still felt it with the people who did go. I especially like how Beric was goured by the zombies, Danearys sadness of Jorah dying in her arms (and I have to say it's cool seeing Dany swing a sword around taking out all of these zombies) and Theon being so easily one shotted and then pushed away by the Night King. There was a lot of palliable tension here and honestly a lot of cool stuff. Especially let's face it anything by Arya: yeah I have a problem that people are going to complain about how OP Arya is in this episode but I don't care. This is a character whose freaking training arc has been going around like at least 5 seasons and this is her first major ultra scale battle so jumping at that hord of zombies, sneaking around the library and distracting them (and again she did have to get saved) and then doing that jump and switch hand stabbing the Night King to death was epic. I give credit to Lyanna Mormont eyestabbing that one giant despite it crushing her bones but yeah Arya is still big damn hero of this episode. And to be honest I kind of am glad we're done with the Night King because yeah the zombies and the horde were a fearsome threat but... though how the Night King walked and commanded his zombie horde (especially surrounding Jon Snow with them) that's not really much of an interesting finale antagonist. I mean what is the Night King's personality besides "well he just looks pretty cool and imposing walking....." yeah that's not really someone you want to see as your main final antagonist. For now based on the previews that's going to be Circe and I'm totally fine with that. We had some deaths and they meant something here but the big final war isn't with these zombies but hey they still gave us an epic showdown here and some much needed long form action and frights for this episode but I am glad to be done with it and move on to other battles.

 

[Fone Bone]

Game Of Thrones "The Long Night"

I knew two things going in:

1. The heroes were going to win the battle.

2. It would be a bloodbath, with a ton of regular characters killed. Possibly even most of then.

I knew they'd win because there are still 3 episodes left. And I was right. My prediction was less satisfactory on the second point, but a ton of people still died. Jorah, Dolorous Ed, Lady Mormont, the Red Woman, Theon. These are all characters that would never have been killed off in a previous battle. But it's the final season and all bets are off.

I am still wondering about the fates of Brienne, Jaime, Sam, Gendry, and Dany's second Dragon. But I guess that's what cliffhangers are actually for. Did I see Gilly get killed? What about Tormund? Everything happened so fast, and it was so blasted dark. The bathroom breaks I had to take during the extra long episode with no commercials didn't help.

I had been screaming my head off at Jon Snow to get moving and track down the Night King, and then Arya pops out of nowhere and slays him for him. What I love about Arya's killing of him is that she positioned herself to kill him no matter what he did, even if she died. After he's about the snap her neck, she simply drops the knife into his stomach as if that was the plan all along. She just knocked it out of the park this episode. The real reason Cersei is gonna lose is because she's going up against the side with Arya in it. Arya is a better fighter than Jon Snow or Ned Stark ever were.

It's funny that Tyrion still has a crush on Sansa. I'm not going to say she feels the same way. It would be weird if she did after all that happened. But either way, the look they gave each other says she still deeply loves him. Which is kind of amazing considering his last name. Tyrion was her favorite. I love that line.

I don't think the Red Woman actually redeemed herself in Davos' eyes. But even he has to see that was a pretty good effort at redemption. She did great.

The previous battles with the White Walkers went so badly against the heroes, (except for the one before this when they had three dragons on their side). Now it's true that one of the Dragons is now the Night King's, but they had two, plus the Red Woman, AND the Three-Eyed Raven, (although all things considered Bran turned out to be as useless as usual). The Night King still has access to every soldier he kills, but he was going up against a LOT more than the heroes had before this.

I actually felt Tyrion's shame for being in the crypt with Sansa and Gilly. The only reason he was sidelined was because he indispensable to Daenyrus. I think if he hadn't been, he probably WOULD have been killed, but I have no doubt he probably could have taken out a White Walker or two at the knees by himself. I get his rage at being treated like a child. He did great in the Battle of Blackwater after all.

Best Tweets of the night about the episode went like this:

"Arya Stark single-handedly saves all of Westeros... But is she likable enough?"

and

"Lady Mormont died doing what she loved: Making men look weak."

I don't dig the battle episodes as much as most fans do. I actually enjoyed the episode before the battle quite a bit more. But it doesn't matter if this sort of thing isn't my cup of tea. I can recognize a fabulous effort at this sort of thing. That's why even though I probably enjoyed last week more, this one gets a higher grade.

Watch out Cersei. Arya is coming for you. ****1/2.

 

[Peter Paltridge]

The real reason Cersei is gonna lose is because she's going up against the side with Arya in it.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

That's why even though I probably enjoyed last week more, this one gets a higher grade.

Well that and Arya's big moment in that episode was getting naked which took off a point and a half from you while this time it was epically killing the Night King.

You know thinking about next week I do have to wonder after this battle how many people currently at Winterfell would even want to now do a battle storming King's Landing? I'm pretty sure no one wants Cersei on the Iron Throne and the Starks have every reason to still want to see that particular Lannister die but I get a feeling of Dany trying to push them doing another right on top of this battle will probably a be a tipping point for some people. I also have a feeling based on director choices next episode will be much more building anticipation focus and the episode after will be the major battle at King's Landing.

 

[Space Cadet]

A new episode airs tonight at 9 PM Eastern.

Episode 8.04: "The Last of the Starks"

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"The Last Of The Starks" - Considering we have two episodes left this will likely be the last major "calm before the storm" episode ever on Game of Thrones. Next week is obviously going to be the big battle at King's Landing and after that is going to be well the finale and we'll see who will take the Iron Throne. I admit though it seems like especially this and the last few episodes have been pushing for Jon.... I'm not really for that. Yes Cersei is crazy and Danearys seems to be giving into that crown insanity but I don't really like the whole "well if he doesn't want it that means he may also be the best one for it" especially since Jon makes dunderhand stupid emotional moves just the same if not more so then anyone else and quite frankly I think having the drive to have power for the sake of the innocent and claim your birthright is more compelling then the whole "doing what your told until destiny kind of forces you into a position you still don't want" which is Jon's whole struggle. Plus yeah the guy can't really keep a secret well. You really think if Sansa dislikes Dany on the Iron Throne telling her "oh BTW I'm technically the actual one whose the best shoe in for the job but I still want to have it" is really going to change her mind at all? Obviously not. Also I really don't like the resolution they're trying to go with Jamie. Yes I get he still has a thing with Circe and I can see him as the kind of guy who feels the only way he can make up for what he did is through his death but it feels like it's just giving Brienne a lot of weird "oh you're better then that please don't do this" cliche female supporitive bull which felt like her character was a lot better then. Their whole plot actually started off well with him noticing her embarssment towards being a virgin and them actually becoming a couple and well coupling but I don't know seems like it's dis serving her character to have her just get with Jamie and act like that. Would or prefered her take the whole Arya root of "yeah can't ever be a lady and am comftortable with who I am currently even if that means being on my own with fellow other loners." As yeah Arya and the Hound are off as I cross my fingers to see Arya get to take out Cersei as well and hey looks like we'll be getting that Clegain bowl with the Hound talking about wanting to kill someone obviously the mountain that people have been wanting for years so why not have it in this upcoming final battle.

Honestly though I was digging on this more then the last build up episode since well seemed like there was much more plot things happening instead of everyone talking about waiting around to tie. I do like how everyone got to party or at least drink and general have an actual feeling of victory for once as a group before we got into all the personal drama. I do like the idea of Davos and Tyrion putting heads over the whole "Jon is Dany's aunt and probably the rightful heir" revelation (and lot of great lines from that like how now 8 people know so instead of a secret it's information or how Targareayns marrying their cousins is normal for them) on who they would follow, and though it was poorly edited from the action to the aftermath the actual ambush by Euron and taking out Rheagal so brutually was cool. And yeah IMHO this episode shows why Circe is a much better final villain then the Night King: because she's an actual character with actual emotion who actually cares about strategy. Granted the whole "we can kill your dragons and your weakened from your last fight" doesn't seem like the best sort of strategy here but at least it's something and she is such a hateable presence especially in how ruthlessly she had Missandre killed you care much more about seeing her die and seeing Dany walk away so obviously furious to gather all the troops for storming the castle was a good way to end this episode. So yeah I dig what they did here. Next week will likely be another big battle episode hopefully better lit then the last one as we find out who wins the battle of King's Landing but I liked this one and felt the interactions did better at moving the story along and though had some personal hiccups not as much as earlier on this season so good on this ep for that.

 

[Fone Bone]

Game Of Thrones "The Last Of The Starks"

This week was mostly set-up. And I have to say it colored my opinions about who should win the Game of Thrones.

My first choice was Daenyrus, but I'd also have been happy if she and Jon shared power. After that? I think it would be safer for everyone involved if Jon were solely calling the shots. Daenyrus makes bad decisions. Daenyrus does not listen to her wise council. Daenyrus is too quick to get offended and too harsh to people she believes offend her. She is not the Mad King. But she's also not as fair and measured as Jon Snow is. Jon Snow was literally considered a bastard. The only reason the North loves and trusts him so is because of how good and loyal he is to his men. Varys made a very good point that maybe it's better if the person who doesn't want the crown should get it. I don't think that's always true (Hillary definitely wanted the Presidency more than Trump did, and now we all live in Hell) but it's probably a good rule of thumb, especially for a monarchy. Maybe if Westeros ever became a Democracy a little ambition would be a good thing. But while Daenyrus only cares about the throne and not the innocent people who are going to die in the battle, Jon is the better leader.

The thing that kills me is that even though I don't WANT Varys to stand against Daenyrus, he's actually right. Good for Tyrion for sticking by Dany even knowing this. And he points out Varys's biggest fault, and the biggest disservice he does for "The Realm". If his morality is so great, he should be able to pick a side and stick with it. Really, what does it say for his judgment that this is the 8th time he's been in this very position? At this point Varys needs to stick with Dany just to prove to me that he hasn't been full of crap the entire time. The character has redeemed himself in my mind (fully), but even if I agree with him that Jon should be king, I don't think Daenyrus would be a bad enough leader to justify betraying her. She'll probably be a lousy queen. But not enough of one to justify treason.

I am unsurprised Sansa told Tyrion the truth (I love how Varys calculates that it's no longer a secret, but information), but I especially like how little it seems to matter to Arya. She's awesome.

Speaking of things not mattering to Ayra, could Gendry possibly have blown that any worse? It's like he doesn't know her at all.

Offering Gendry Storm's End was the one smart thing Dany did this episode. But it was pretty much all downhill from there.

For the record, I found Dany's pleas for Jon to keep the secret pathetic, especially coming from someone who wants to be queen. She is not arguing from a position of strength there.

Bronn as master of Highgarden? I get that his threatening scene with Tyrion and Jaime was supposed to be jokey, and sort of fun, but I think both Tyrion and Jaime gave in far too easily. If Bronn truly thinks Cersei is going to lose and die, what does he think will happen to him after murdering Jaime and Tyrion? Tyrion's offer was generous. But even if she won, I would have been pointing out that Cersei is the chick who likes to tie up all of her loose ends, which is what Bronn now is. He hardly needed that big of a reward to point out it was in his best interest to simply fall off the face of the Earth.

And after that Jaime STILL goes back to her? He is a weak, worthless man.

And we get to Cersei. The creators make it sound like it was inevitable that Cersei would kill Missandrei, and if that's true, Cersei sucks at the Game of Thrones. I always thought so, but Missandrei had value as a hostage. She is somebody you'd want to keep alive as long as possible. Cersei is so widely despised because she's always pulling cr*p like that. After Tyrion's moving speech, I even think Daenyrus might have been inclined to show mercy to a pregnant woman until she did that.

Speaking of, if Euron were smart, next week he'll be questioning how Tyrion knew she was pregnant. The guy is dumb, but maybe not THAT dumb.

I think Cersei is well-placed to win the dragon part of the battle, but the truth is even if she kills off Dany's last Dragon, the Unsullied and Dothraki are not only better and more loyal armies, but ultimately they have something worth fighting for. Whether Dany is more worthy than Jon is an open question, but nobody fighting for Cersei loves her, or actually believes she belongs there. Dragons or not, that is going to be Cersei's downfall. And it always was.

I think Cersei's position is in much worse shape than the episode is billing it as. Being widely hated will be her downfall. And possibly Jon Snow's reason for ascension. My hope is that in the last episode, Danearys is going to die (possibly for Jon). And Jon will THEN accept his role. But after this week I don't think Daenyrus will win. And I no longer think she even deserves to.

After next week I'm predicting it's down to just Dany and Jon. And I hope it both winds up Jon, and doesn't pull everybody apart to happen. ***1/2.

 

[Space Cadet]

The penultimate episode airs tonight at 9 PM Eastern.

Episode 8.05: "The Bells"

 

[Fone Bone]

Game Of Thrones "The Bells"

And the series lost me. Just like that.

To be truthful, the series has lost me at several points before this, and I always seemed to bounce back after awhile. But there is only one episode left. I don't see them redeeming the show again next week.

Daenyrus is a monster. And the reason it angers me so much is because the Dragon Queen was the best example of a strong female character on the show. True, it still has Arya. But Arya was never vying for the throne. It's a bit galling that they are saying the male and much more conventional Jon Snow is the one who deserves to get the throne next week. And if this was Martin's plan, or the just the producers, it outright sucks. I always roll my eyes at Martin and the fans talking about this franchise's strong female characters while it is borderline softcore porn. But as long as Daenyrus was worth rooting for, I could see the argument. It's just so freaking disappointing. I wish I was also surprised.

My favorite scene was Tyrion's goodbye to Varys. I got a lump in my throat when Varys called him his old friend. And I especially love that Varys says he hopes he is wrong. It turns out he wasn't.

This show had a strong first half of the season but has basically spent the last couple of episodes destroying the things the fans loved most about the show. I am very unhappy. *.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"The Bells" - Okay there are a fair amount of stupid things in this episode. I mean seriously in the middle of the dragon roasting the entire city it seems really stupid to try and get The Hound to get Arya to say "hey get out of here Cersei's going to die anyway". I get the connection there but having it at that point feels pretty ridiculous and I get not wanting to just have Arya take up all the kill counts but seems silly to set that up from last time just I guess to have Arya get tossled around for like 10 minutes in the rubble. Seriously did it need to go on that long? I get wanting to have a character to show the devastation but it gets ridiculous seeing how she keeps surviving (granted guess Arya has more common sense then others) while everyone doesn't and getting that white horse at the end. I guess the team really wanted to up the hell they were showing but there could of been a better way to do this. Also the whole plan of letting Jamie go to try and get Cersei to surrender and no one really finding out about in the main army feels inane and quite honestly this show has shown time and time again Cersei is too prideful and wicked that it does take absolute obvious failure and total destruction to make her realize she's done for. And quite honestly I guess it was trying to make me a bit sad to see Cersei and Jamie die like that but Jamie chose his fate and well sorry kind of too late now to make me care for this character. Feels like the writers wanted to make the death more sad then the glory you would feel from it since GoT is supposed to be more subversive but... quite honestly you already proved you go for the epic feel good moments anyway with that whole death of the Night King which is pretty silly if we're supposed to take the show more seriously. I liked it since I don't really but then it pulls moments like that which prove otherwise. Also a lot of meandering around for the supposed last big albeit I guess it wasn't supposed to be much of one. Outside of Varys's death felt like a lot of the first 20 minutes really could of been tightened up.



I admit though for all my gripes about the last hour I actually do appreciate the tone of it; the battle of the white walkers despite the walkers having the obvious advantage and showing how terrifying they can be sans that one weakness was well... a battle. There was back and forth and times when heroes at least scored some good hits in and in the end it was still a victory. I guess technically here's a victory but yeah for now I guess the "mad queen." I still think it's stupid for Jon Snow to take throne no matter how much the show tries building up how it should be and I get at least where Dany is coming from and her pointing out how mercy is a weakness she will not allow to be exploited from her anymore works but yeah this showing she has clearly gone off the deep end despite not really seeing much of her. I mean it was cool to see her use clouds and obviously knowing how the weapons work to take out the fleet but once it got to the city after the bells were ringing and seeing her burn everything down I get was supposed to be horrifying and it did work on that level. And though I would of liked a better death I admit I did like seeing how utterly hopeless Cersei realized the situation was seeing everyone had surreneded and then seeing the dragon keep burning off parts of the building before she eventually had to be forced into a retreat. And hey for those who have been wanting it for years a Clegain bowl as the Hound well... I guess both of them died but I do like showing just how much fearsome punishment the mountain can take if he isn't even really that effected by an eye stabbing and the Hound going "eh fine self sacrifice will kill you" by throwing them both into the mountain. That was a pretty epic battle. Moreso then Jamie vs Euron especially as Euron apparently still laughed off his death but yeah decent stuff between them. Of course the focus is to show just how terrible an angry Targerayan can be and to set up Dany as the show's last opponent... I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that Jon makes the self sacrifice play to take out Dany and Sansa "sits" on the Iron Throne but I think they're building up Jon Snow to do that even though I still think that's a stupid idea but eh at least they made sure to really flay out why it won't be Dany here in a pretty horrifying sort of way so solid job on that. Again problematic but IMHO not a bad episode and hey pretty massive kill count if we have Varys, Euron, The Hound, The Mountain, Cersei and Jamie gone. Think my favorite death though was Qyogm just being pushed away so easily by the mountain but yeah solid death amount for the second to last ep. Who will win the game of thrones? Guess that's a next time question so tune in then I suppose.

 

[Fone Bone]

Am I the only one absolutely dreading Sunday? After this episode, I'm pretty sure the finale is going to be outright terrible. The series' entire values are warped. And maybe the blame should also go to George R.R. Martin, but the producers are doing themselves no favors in the interviews.

In the after show recap in the OnDemand, the producers admit that Daenyrus made the decision she did because she had no advisers left she trusted, and this was not something she might have done if she was in a better headspace.

And you know what? No. Bullcrap. That is the producers refusing to take responsibility for their writing, and how badly they've done by the female fans who responded to the empowerment of Daenyrus. Basically it's, "Oh, she committed genocide because she had a bad day. Because you KNOW how overemotional those female rulers get, am I right, fellas?" This show and the books constantly show the characters doing horrible and depraved things, and they think the way to keep things interesting is to keep topping themselves in horribleness. They never once consider the messages those terrible things, or the characters doing them send the audience.

Basically the entire morality of the show involves "People are terrible. End of story." I reject that notion. And I think anyone who thinks that's an appropriate end moral for a series that has lasted ten years, wrapping up books that have lasted 20, I think those kinds of fans are the problem. And I'll probably get pushback for that by people saying "What do you expect based on everything that came before?"

I expected the series not to suck. After hearing people, critics, and the Emmy raving over how great and powerful and addictive it is, I actually expected a satisfying ending. That is not an unreasonable ask on my end. And I really hope I'm wrong. But I have not remembered EVER dreading a final episode this much. Usually a second-to-last episode gets me EXCITED to see how things turn out. Instead I'm reminded of the appalling fact that these bozos are now in charge of Star Wars.

Am I crazy for thinking this?

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

Oh not at all Fone Bone. There's plenty of other fans who have done tons of various other reviews about this episode that HATE IT with the screaming passion that you do who are also dreading the finale. I admit I'm a bit more indifferent because well... this is the first full season of the show I've watched. I've seen clips and read a bunch about it and have seen reviews of every episode over the years but never specifically watched the show but I was interested in seeing how it was going to end so started checking out the episodes and again due to not being a technical fan don't have as probably much of a problem with them. Since though I knew of Dany and her quest for years upon years that was only more by proxy. I imagine if I started watching back in 2011 or read the books beforehand and saw that at least one variation of this story was leading to this result I'd probably be a lot more angry. I will admit I am going to be very ticked if this show tries ending with Jon Snow on the throne. I know enough about the series to know it's bullcrap about "oh he doesn't want the throne that means he should get it" is dumb and not how the series should end at all.

 

[Fone Bone]

I'm less worried about Jon getting the throne and more about the producers killing the entire cast off and calling that "drama". At this point Jon getting the throne would be the least horrible scenario.

 

[Space Cadet]

After 8 seasons and 73 episodes, the final episode of HBO's most popular series comes to its conclusion tonight at 9 PM Eastern. To say this season has had a mixed reception among fans would be an understatement. There currently is a petition asking the GoT showrunners to re-do this season, with signatures being close to a million. Tonight's finale will definitely get people talking. Who will win the Iron Throne? Will our resident commentators, @Fone Bone and @Neo Ultra Mike like the outcome? Tune in to find out.

Episode 8.06: "The Iron Throne"

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"Unnamed Finale As it Has Not Been Given A Title Yet" - You know quite honestly I'm a bit more forgiving on this show's front then most not only because I haven't seen all of it but because quite honestly if it wanted to reveal "you thought we were this interesting break down and subversion of these fantasy tropes and had a edge and development others didn't" for then it to revel in said tropes and dive down hard into them to give a more fun and satisfying bombast with still these grim under tones, that'd still be interesting. The problem is that ultimately this show wanted to have it both ways; to have those tropes but also have the subversion to it as well. And as a result it's end is... I guess better then perhaps it could of been but still not very good. Let's face facts first off that is only because of the most convenient and most unbelievable plot armor that both Jon Snow and Tyrion survived this episode because... there should be no logical way they would of been able to do so. Seriously if Daenaerys is still on this power trip and made this whole big speech about "we will burn and bring my goodness all throughout this land" after having totally wrecked king's landing, why bother even keeping Tyrion a prisoner for any amount of time after you said he would die for betraying you and even renounced his position as your hand? He should of died right there but of course that couldn't happen for the sake of the talk so off he goes on this overly elaborate and long chat with Jon that pretty much amounts to "look you know she's screwed up she needs to die" "no she's my queen" "she'll kill everyone" "she's my queen I'm loyal to her" "she'll kill your sisters" "but I'm Jon Snow so things will work out" over and over again and man I'm guessing the dialogue in these scenes were a lot better when they were written by Martin because these overly long scenes that feel like they're written in a circle don't do anything to me. And seriously after another super long scene to try and make us again have this big elaborate death for Danereys because of Jon stabbing her Drogon comes in realizing what happened and... instead of burning down Jon Snow for killing his mother he burns down the thrown, takes Danerys's dead body and leaves? Uh... what? Did the freaking dragon realize "oh hey it was the power of the throne that made her crazy and bad I need to get rid of it and"... yeah I know enough about the show to know the dragons were never that intelligent and could put things together like that so yeah instead of burning down Jon Snow they burn down the throne because symbolism and instead of being killed by Greyworm and the Unsullied Jon Snow is just captured even though.... okay there is no reason for that. If Greyworm was all about justice why not just do the act then instead of waiting the apparent weeks (because apparently NOW traveling takes forever) to gather everyone and then say "oh we want to kill Jon" to the rest of the world whose rules you apparently follow even if by the logic of you following the queen who wanted to tear down everything wouldn't you by right of the new master of war follow in their foot steps especially since even without Daenareys or the dragon you'd still have the advantage with your joint armies? Ughhhhhhhhhh just so stupid and such a terrible transition of Tyrion being waked out from sleep for this meeting of again people just standing around because yeah when you break it down like 70% of this show seems to be people standing around in meetings or in these conversations and sorry if what is said isn't interesting and the surroundings are such bullcrap it's hard to really get invested in it. Also though I am glad Jon isn't king of the seven realms and it does seem like we are getting more demorcarcy the stupid "oh he's back in a new different variation of the Knight's Watch because that's still a thing even though there are no more undead around" is pretty stupid. Remember how people complained about how this season started off with too many parallels to the first? Yeah seemed like the writers really wanted to cement that with the finale with Jon's fate which is just so stupid and backwards and again if this show had the stones and hutzpah it promised back when it deleivered the guy would of been dead by now but no having poetic symbolism is more important then logic. Same with there now literally being "A Song of Ice And Fire" now literally in this world which man even as only a sort of fan felt like a huge slap in the face because pretty sure George isn't going to end his book with "and so the characters saw a book was made about this and Tyrion asked about his part and ha ha he wasn't in it isn't that hilarious?" Ugh stupid stupid stupid finale moment show.

Okay okay let me think about if there was anything really good in this one to balance out all the hate I've been dumping on it. Uh... oh hey the ruler of the seven kingdoms is Bran Stark since... he is three eyed Raven and... knows the future and past and... can worg into crows and- okay this is still stupid. I still don't like how the show seems to think "the totally unexperienced people who don't want the throne are clearly the best choice for it" is a good idea and though at least Bran knowing the future and past and isn't as totally full of trying to be some sort of noble hero all the time in all of his actions like jon is a better choice then Snow, still not a very good one. Yeah people like a good story but people also like heroes who rise above and do stuff that makes you want to root with them. And you know unlike most everyone else I'll defend Bran in that battle with the white walkers as he knew he was bait and played his part as bait and if you know what's going to happen and can't do anything to change it why try to act surprised. But I kind of also thought that due to the whole being the three eyed raven deal he was cut off from humanity and from the day to day struggles that people have and thought about a bigger in general picture which... you do need some of to be a good ruler but you still need SOME form of connection which they haven't really shown off well that he has. I guess I do like Sansa being queen of the north and here making the agreement that the North won't be one of the kingdoms ruled over even if by her brother as at least her getting prepared and walking down to her thrown and being called queen felt sort of nice though... I have no idea where Arya's fate came from. "Oh I want to go off beyond the west to see what that's like." It feels like the writers didn't want her to be an assassin anymore for whatever reason (yeah guess what; no super use of her faceless one powers this season unless that was used against the nice king followers... guess that's why she was the one to kill the night king as well since that's like the only thing she really did this damn season) but had no plans for her unless like this is going to lead to one of those Game of Throne spinoffs. "The Adventures of Arya Stark beyond Westeros". You know someone tried pitching that once talk of this fate came up but yeah just feels pretty random to put in. Also though I like the meeting scene somewhat of Tyrion adjusting the chairs as everyone talks about what to focus on for their first repairs and Bronn suggesting brothels and Brienne suggesting jokes and Tyrion cracking a joke it also feels like a very weird note to end things on. I guess they're trying to make some hinting they are kind of forming more of a democracy now even if people laughed at the idea before but eh that didn't work for me. Neither did the super slow opening of Tyrion discovering Cersei and Jamie's bodies (which look pretty well still after that crushed fall just saying) or about the prisoner execution (yeah Greyworm and Jon don't really come to blows and though there is some tension later it's all easily talked off so... kind of a weak resolution there) and I guess the speech was fine and I guess Tyrion naming Bran King meant he actually did something this season and the whole "you will work to make up your mistakes" at least felt like the team admitting he screwed up but would get better but... eh still kind of lacking. Okay let's see what else was in this one... oh hey Jon actually did pet Ghost and is going off with him at the end people were annoyed he didn't pet his dire wolf so uh at least that happened plus at least Arya Stark and Jon setting off in different ways felt better thematically then cutting between Arya and the Hound last episode.

But yeah a few okay moments aside a pretty boring and talky but not in an interseting way especially since it was lot of talk of love and back and forth that so could of been trimmed down and felt honestly very unsatisfying. I mean at least it is sort of a happy ending and at least Jon didn't take the throne which is what I feared so I personally consider it better then what we could of gotten but yeah even with my limited experience I know this isn't that good an episode for not that good a season and that people are going to be really mad at this one. And quite honestly even if I liked other episodes a finale should have some personal satisifcation and have some thrills and intrigued to it. I mean even Lost had that even if it didn't answer all of our questions in it's finale while this just had... the mad queen being stabbed and naming the teenage kid in the wheel chair as their new king and a lot of boring talking. Pretty lame Game of Thrones. This will not be a show whose ending is looked upon favorably I know that much.