Why have they never been able to make another Batman cartoon as good as B:TAS?

[CyberCubed]

We've had 3 Batman cartoon reboots since B:TAS:

- The Batman
- Brave and the Bold
- Beware the Batman

And while these shows have their good episodes, especially Brave and the Bold, they've still collectively as a whole never been able to surpass B:TAS.

The Batman had villains and plots that were dumbed down for kids and not as complex as B:TAS, Brave and the Bold was a fun show but it had a mix of great and not-so-great episode, and I know Beware the Batman is still early...but so far its just OK, nothing really that memorable.

Had Greg Weisman made a new Batman show instead of Young Justice, I think we might have actually had a show that could have surpassed B:TAS. As amazing as Young Justice was, having a new Batman cartoon with that kind of writing would have been wonderful. So what are your thoughts?

 

[Wonderwall]

Not totally fair to lump in Beware in this list yet since it only has aired less than a dozen episodes. First dozen of BTAS were a bit of a mixed bag too. I think Bruce Timm mentioned at Comic Con that maybe one of the factors was that the superhero animation scene was very different in 1992 than it is 21 years later where it's harder to get noticed.

 

[Light Lucario]

Had Greg Weisman made a new Batman show instead of Young Justice, I think we might have actually had a show that could have surpassed B:TAS. As amazing as Young Justice was, having a new Batman cartoon with that kind of writing would have been wonderful. So what are your thoughts?

I'm not sure about that, especially if they would have started to put way too much on their plate like they did with Young Justice. It could have been good, or at least had the potential to be good, but I'm not sure if it could have surpassed the animated series due to how the writing was handled in Young Justice.

I also think it's a bit unfair to group Beware the Batman when it hasn't even aired a full season yet. I agree that it's just okay so far and doesn't really stand out much, but that could change over time. As for the actual question, it could be that there would be more restrictions on the writing due to both the changes in television's standards from how they were over twenty years ago and marketing reasons for Batman products. Plus, it's really hard to make an animated superhero series stand out nowadays. Not that it was easy back then, but there were fewer series that B:TAS was compared to back then and that could have factored into how it was received.

 

[M.O.D.O.K.]

I'm not sure about that, especially if they would have started to put way too much on their plate like they did with Young Justice. It could have been good, or at least had the potential to be good, but I'm not sure if it could have surpassed the animated series due to how the writing was handled in Young Justice..

Weisman's done A LOT more than just Young Justice. A little unfair to judge him from THAT alone.

Anyways, yeah, pretty unfair to write Beware off this early. I thought Brave and the Bold was just as good, and let's not forget that TAS also had a fair share of poor episodes.

 

[Lighthammer]

I'd also toss out that Beware the Batman sounded like it was going to be doing a lot more awesome stuff, but as of ComicCon 2012, we heard a lot of ripples that sounded like CN was playing with the series behind the scenes that made them have to retool A LOT.

Provided this is true, we have to assume one of two things:

#1.) TPTB working on Beware the Batman had to rehash a ton to fit CN's 'new' guidelines and things will get better as the hackney work subsides.

#2.) CN purposely sabotaged the series and it won't be around long enough to get attached to.

Only time is really going to tell which is true.

 

[ShadowStar]

Not totally fair to lump in Beware in this list yet since it only has aired less than a dozen episodes. First dozen of BTAS were a bit of a mixed bag too. I think Bruce Timm mentioned at Comic Con that maybe one of the factors was that the superhero animation scene was very different in 1992 than it is 21 years later where it's harder to get noticed.

The look of B:TAS and its music made for an incredible ambiance that just isn't there in subsequent Batman cartoons. Whether the scarcity of good superhero animation in the early 90s was the reason for its rise to fame or not, the reason it went down so well in the long run was because of its mature storytelling and perfect encapsulation of the Gotham 'world'. Even in most of the weaker episodes, the show still has a wonderful feel.

Granted, The Batman, Batman: The Brave and the Bold and Beware the Batman have all gone for different tones and looks, so a comparison is almost unfair. I think B:TAS just falls nicely in line with what people want in a Batman cartoon though. And since it would be a tall order to rival the combination of excellent voice casting, superb music and perfectly suited designs, it's no wonder that they haven't really tried to top B:TAS. Even the producers of The Batman said that "Heart of Ice" was so great that there was no point in trying to top it.

To top B:TAS they'd have to reproduce everything that people loved about it and somehow take it a step further. Maybe just with a more consistent episode run? Lots of episodes have (deservedly) acquired reputations as classics in their own right though, so it would be a tall order to craft a Batman series with an even bigger following.

 

[the greenman]

Brave and the Bold deliberately went the opposite direction than BTAS so its really hard to compare.

 

[Silverstar]

As others have said, this isn't a fair question for a number of reasons: Batman: TAS has had its' share or clunker episodes, the other shows had their share of fans too, The Brave and the Bold was done in a different vibe from the other series mentioned, and Beware the Batman just got out of the starting gate, so it's too early to write it off as an inferior product.

No show is perfect. A lot of people really liked B:TAS, but it's a tad presumptuous to say that it was objectively better than any and all Batman shows that came after it. Opinions and tastes can and will differ, after all. I liked Brave and Bold better than B:TAS, for example.

 

[Ed Liu]

I know I've argued at one point that Batman: The Brave and the Bold got off to a stronger start than BTAS, and I'd argue that it was at least as good as BTAS. However, this is also like trying to argue which of Toy Story or The Incredibles or Monsters Inc. is the "better" movie -- for me, that gets harder after a while because the only real commonality they have is the studio that produced them.

I think BTAS and BATB were both extraordinarily successful, at least partially because they both managed to re-define the boundaries of "success" by assertively hammering out their own look and feel that was distinct from just about every other Batman cartoon that came before it. If anything, I'm probably more impressed that BATB managed to do that in the shadow of BTAS, which really redefined the way American action cartoons were approached. I never thought that The Batman managed to escape BTAS's shadow, and the jury is still out on Beware the Batman (though I'm mostly positive on it at this point).

 

[Wonderwall]

The look of B:TAS and its music made for an incredible ambiance that just isn't there in subsequent Batman cartoons. Whether the scarcity of good superhero animation in the early 90s was the reason for its rise to fame or not, the reason it went down so well in the long run was because of its mature storytelling and perfect encapsulation of the Gotham 'world'. Even in most of the weaker episodes, the show still has a wonderful feel.

Granted, The Batman, Batman: The Brave and the Bold and Beware the Batman have all gone for different tones and looks, so a comparison is almost unfair. I think B:TAS just falls nicely in line with what people want in a Batman cartoon though. And since it would be a tall order to rival the combination of excellent voice casting, superb music and perfectly suited designs, it's no wonder that they haven't really tried to top B:TAS. Even the producers of The Batman said that "Heart of Ice" was so great that there was no point in trying to top it.

To top B:TAS they'd have to reproduce everything that people loved about it and somehow take it a step further. Maybe just with a more consistent episode run? Lots of episodes have (deservedly) acquired reputations as classics in their own right though, so it would be a tall order to craft a Batman series with an even bigger following.

Don't get me wrong I agree( it is like my favorite show of all time ) but it's still a valid point I think. Especially when arguably the most important guy on the show has said roughly the same thing and I think more than once. I remember he said something to the effect( of the DCAU more specifically but BTAS is the foundation of that ) that they were "The one eyed guy in the land of the blind" in an interview once.

 

[brickrrb2]

Because the pretenders and wannabes of today simply cannot match to the the genius of Yester year

 

[Silverstar]

Because the pretenders and wannabes of today simply cannot match to the the genius of Yester year

No offense, but that just sounds like nostalgia talking.

Fans of Batman: the Animated Series tend to put that series on a pedestal as being the single greatest Batman series ever made, but the fact of the matter is that B:TAS had its' share of loser episodes too ("I've Got Batman in My Basement", anyone?). Some people automatically hate on new shows just because they're not the shows they grew up with. But these same people tend to forget that yesteryear also had its' fair share of bad and mediocre programs. That's the thing about nostalgia: it tends to make us forget the bad stuff, making the past seem better than it actually was. Nostalgia blinds us to the fact that suck is eternal.

 

[Light Lucario]

Weisman's done A LOT more than just Young Justice. A little unfair to judge him from THAT alone.

I have seen his work with other shows like Spectacular Spider-Man and Gargoyles and I liked both series, at least from what I've seen. I was just saying that a Batman series with Young Justice level of writing quality might not be that great due to the problems Young Justice ended up having for me, but I should have made it clearer when I first made my comment about that.

 

[Riddler]

Everyone has their version of Batman. For some, it's the Christopher Nolan movies, for others it might be the '60s Adam West show, or maybe a certain comic book. For me personally, B:TAS is the DEFINITIVE version of the Batman character and world. I love everything about it. The art style, the character models, the tone, the stories, the voice acting, the music.... it's ALL amazing and unlike any other animated show that has ever existed.

I think every show that's come after has tried to set itself apart from the enormous footprint left by B:TAS. And honestly, that's the way it should be. I enjoy seeing fresh takes on the Batman world. Sure they will never live up to B:TAS in my mind, but they don't NEED to and I don't expect them to. I can get a great deal of enjoyment out of newer Batman shows by keeping in mind what they are - just a different take on Batman.

 

[Yojimbo]

Anyways, yeah, pretty unfair to write Beware off this early. I thought Brave and the Bold was just as good, and let's not forget that TAS also had a fair share of poor episodes.

I'm in same boat on all three counts. "I've Got Batman in My Basement" ring any bells? I don't see any conscious effort to top B:TAS in any of the later shows, more of a mandate to corporealize a new interpretation for subsequent generations of new viewers while still keeping the interest of past viewers. Although, I think it would be kind of neat to gather Bruce Timm, Alan Burnett, Eric Randomski, Paul Dini and all of the same crews, whom are still alive and active, and see what kind of Batman show they would make. In theory.

 

[JTMarsh]

I imagine Greg Weisman would do very well as show runner for a Batman series, in light of his free lance work for "The Batman" and "Brave & The Bold".

As for "surpassing" or being "as good" as Batman: TAS, well that's too much a matter of personal taste - when you grow up with a certain version of something or a certain idea/attitude towards anything that can be hard, nearly impossible to overcome. I have friends who could never accept the Nolan Batman films over the Burton ones, and while I still enjoy the Bat-films I grew up with I do think Nolan handled certain things better than his predecessors.

Or in general, if your first impression of an actor, any actor, is "that's a bad actor" that may very well always be your impression, regardless of whether or not the actor in question does superior work later in his or her career.

 

[brickrrb2]

It's not always nostalgia. It's just that with All these shows now No ones putting their heart soul and effort into any of it and the network just takes anything that's cheap to animate

 

[Wonderwall]

From what little I know of James Tucker, Brave and the Bold looked very much like it was from the heart. And for the most part DC's cartoons look like some money is put into them( as opposed to say most of Marvel's output ). I think there has been a number of good shows that have come out recently...most of them cut down early.

 

[dmxx116]

We should all be greatful that Jeph Loeb is not the head of DC animation making any Batman cartoon of any DC shows for that matter.

 

[Silverstar]

It's not always nostalgia. It's just that with All these shows now No ones putting their heart soul and effort into any of it and the network just takes anything that's cheap to animate

That statement is neither fair nor accurate. Opinion =/= fact. Just because you don't like a lot of the shows which are on right now doesn't mean that the folks behind them aren't putting their all into them, both artistically and financially.