Killing Vortexx was a mistake.

[aegisrawks]

I will say this again and again, killing Vortexx was a mistake. I know it was inevitable with Saban selling their stuff to Litton but I still think it had major potential. If 4K Media had won the auction to the block we'd probably still have it around. Think about it, Dragon Ball Super, and all sorts of cool other shows! Yu Gi Oh would still have a home in the USA.

Back when 4Kids was on its last legs they scored major ratings with over one million viewers.

From Media Week:

Intro to the Kids Upfront: Toon Physics

web.archive.org

While 4Kids doesn’t compete on the same playing field as the Big Three, the program block does reach a unique audience of some 15 million TV households that don’t subscribe to a multichannel service.



Cord cutting now accounts for 19.9% of US households in 2020, raising their numbers to a staggering total of 25.3 million.

Cord Cutting Statistics for 2020 - NoCable

Cord cutting now accounts for 19.9% of US households in 2020, raising their numbers to a staggering total of 25.3 million.

nocable.org

 

[Light Lucario]

Didn't 4Kids sell off the block themselves? My memory is a bit hazy, but if it came down between owning their own Saturday morning block and attempt to keep the license to the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, then they would have gone with the latter. The Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise was their last major property, so they would be more interested in keeping that as long as possible. Even then they were eventually forced to put the license up for auction and now Konami holds the license through 4K Media, even if that is just the remains of 4Kids.

It might have given a TV home to the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, but I have a hard time imagining that it would have attracted more kids when streaming has become much more common over time. It would have been a better option than having the franchise move to Nicktoons and I don't know how well Pluto TV does in the sea of streaming platforms. I just remember some of the abysmal ratings for 5D's, particularly during the dub's last stretch, and I don't think any of the other series would have fared much better.

If Saban had been able to get more content for the block, maybe they could have been able to make it last longer, but it would have been a major uphill battle against both cable and streaming platforms.

 

[harry580]

I think its failed because 1, FCC. and 2, saban didn't have the resources to make a block on the cw, sure saban has power rangers and their old super sentai shows but they lost all the original saban shows and fox kids to disney which still have the rights to these old saban shows

 

[aegisrawks]

Didn't 4Kids sell off the block themselves? My memory is a bit hazy, but if it came down between owning their own Saturday morning block and attempt to keep the license to the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, then they would have gone with the latter. The Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise was their last major property, so they would be more interested in keeping that as long as possible. Even then they were eventually forced to put the license up for auction and now Konami holds the license through 4K Media, even if that is just the remains of 4Kids.

It might have given a TV home to the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, but I have a hard time imagining that it would have attracted more kids when streaming has become much more common over time. It would have been a better option than having the franchise move to Nicktoons and I don't know how well Pluto TV does in the sea of streaming platforms. I just remember some of the abysmal ratings for 5D's, particularly during the dub's last stretch, and I don't think any of the other series would have fared much better.

If Saban had been able to get more content for the block, maybe they could have been able to make it last longer, but it would have been a major uphill battle against both cable and streaming platforms.

It certainly beats the uncertainty of relying on Pluto TV. And I do know it would have been an uphill battle but once Dragon Ball Super came along it could have done wonders for the ratings. And again its only a matter of surviving until Nick, CN and Disney hit 400k tops.

 

[The Overlord]

It certainly beats the uncertainty of relying on Pluto TV. And I do know it would have been an uphill battle but once Dragon Ball Super came along it could have done wonders for the ratings. And again its only a matter of surviving until Nick, CN and Disney hit 400k tops.

I admire your dedication, but I think Light is right, something like the Vortexx will have to be profitable, not just break even to survive.

Things like Vortex are like VHS or VCRs in the early 2000s, people still have them, but the switch to DVDs was inevitable. I think streaming was the final nail in the coffin of Sat morning cartoon blocks, there are kids growing that would be unfamiliar with stuff like commercial breaks.

 

[aegisrawks]

It is profitable. I meant to say that had it survived by, say Super, The ratings could have grown AND been more than enough to ensure profitability.

 

[Light Lucario]

It is profitable. I meant to say that had it survived by, say Super, The ratings could have grown AND been more than enough to ensure profitability.

I don't know about that. It could have turned out some decent profits, but would have it be worthwhile to keep it going against cable channels and streaming services? With more shows to hook kids in and better promotion, maybe Vortexx could have lasted a bit longer, but that would be extremely lucky given the TV landscape at the time and how it would further change over time. I really don't think it could have survived into 2021. It was already difficult for Saturday morning blocks to compete against channels devoted to kids entertainment, but having to go up against cable and streaming platforms would have been way too difficult for something like Vortexx to do.

 

[The Overlord]

It is profitable. I meant to say that had it survived by, say Super, The ratings could have grown AND been more than enough to ensure profitability.

Profitable compared to streaming? I would doubt that.

 

[aegisrawks]

I think the ratings could have climbed to 1.5 million and even further. AND YES. It IS a big number. Nickelodeon would kill for 700k LET ALONE 1.5 million. ALSO I love how everyone's darling Toonami is barely hanging by a thread and is not actually introducing new people to anime and everyone still bends over backwards to defend it.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

It wasn't really a mistake when the Saturday morning format was declining due to cable television and this was just after the streaming boom began.

 

[Light Lucario]

I think the ratings could have climbed to 1.5 million and even further. AND YES. It IS a big number. Nickelodeon would kill for 700k LET ALONE 1.5 million. ALSO I love how everyone's darling Toonami is barely hanging by a thread and is not actually introducing new people to anime and everyone still bends over backwards to defend it.

I think that there are a few key differences between Toonami and Vortexx though. Yeah, it isn't the anime gateway that it used to be back in the day, but I don't think it really needs to be. The TV landscape has changed drastically since Toonami started, so appealing to both the general audience and long time fans of the block isn't really a bad thing. While Toonami is a weekly block, it's a block full of animated series aimed primarily at adults and is quite possibly one of the few places where anime can air on TV nowadays for whatever that's worth. It has a more unique setup than Vortexx and there aren't TV channels devoted these same kind of shows. People can easily watch the episodes on sites like Crunchyroll, but that applies to most TV shows. Toonami has also been able to create original shows with more in the works currently, which is a pretty solid indication of how successful the block has been.

Vortexx was a block aimed at kids, a good portion of it being reruns if I recall correctly, and it aired on a broadcast TV channel when those blocks were well on their way out the door. The ratings could have been as good as you claim that they were, but would have it been enough for the CW to keep it going? Would they have been able to get exclusive shows to help attract more of an audience when the focus was more on putting shows on streaming sites? I don't think so. If they were lucky enough, the Vortexx might have been able to last a bit longer, but I don't see how it could have lasted significantly longer, let alone still be around today, even if they had more shows and support.

 

[Anitoon1000]

Didn't 4Kids sell off the block themselves? My memory is a bit hazy, but if it came down between owning their own Saturday morning block and attempt to keep the license to the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, then they would have gone with the latter. The Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise was their last major property, so they would be more interested in keeping that as long as possible. Even then they were eventually forced to put the license up for auction and now Konami holds the license through 4K Media, even if that is just the remains of 4Kids.

It might have given a TV home to the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, but I have a hard time imagining that it would have attracted more kids when streaming has become much more common over time. It would have been a better option than having the franchise move to Nicktoons and I don't know how well Pluto TV does in the sea of streaming platforms. I just remember some of the abysmal ratings for 5D's, particularly during the dub's last stretch, and I don't think any of the other series would have fared much better.

If Saban had been able to get more content for the block, maybe they could have been able to make it last longer, but it would have been a major uphill battle against both cable and streaming platforms.

Except by that time Cable tv was already in decline and there werent any major streaming platforms out there besides Netflix.

The real reason Vortexx decline is simply greed, incompentece on the part of 4kids and the CW network.

 

[harry580]

Except by that time Cable tv was already in decline and there werent any major streaming platforms out there besides Netflix.

The real reason Vortexx decline is simply greed, incompentece on the part of 4kids and the CW network.

and saban then revival era, this is not the same saban from the saban entertainment years, I think hasbro would have bought power rangers from disney earlier then 2018 instead of haim saban

 

[Anitoon1000]

It wasn't really a mistake when the Saturday morning format was declining due to cable television and this was just after the streaming boom began.

cable tv and streaming was never a factor as Cable tv was in decline by that point and companies never took advange of streaming unitl way late in the game but by that time the hype over streaming was already to fade away and most of the companies streaming efforts were mostly dumping programs acquired during mergers and acquisitions

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Cable TV and streaming were never a factor as Cable TV was in decline by that point and companies never took advantage of streaming until way late in the game but by that time, the hype over streaming was already to fade away and most of the companies' streaming efforts were mostly dumping programs acquired during mergers and acquisitions.

Wrong. Cable TV wasn't yet surpassed by streaming services by the time the Saturday morning format declined and the end of Vortexx happened just as streaming services was starting to take off, as in cable TV wasn't yet in a decline during that point.

Also, it's not entirely true on that company-owned streaming services like Disney+, HBO Max and so on are mostly dumping programs that their parent companies acquired during mergers and acquisitions.

 

[LinusFan303]

I can figure in some markets, Vortexx was a pain for some CW stations like KMAX-TV for example. They aired local news (still do) from 7-11am , then Vortexx on Saturday 11am-4pm, then they had to find room for some E/I requirements, versus the CW just doing their own E/I programming in the Vortexx slot. KTLA, WGN (when they were CW) , and some others had the same problem of trying to fit their news programming (which makes a local station money) over programming that doesn't. That's at least some factor, since the stations had to sign off on the change from Vortexx to Litton to accept the block.

 

[TVTOON]

Wrong. Cable TV wasn't yet surpassed by streaming services by the time the Saturday morning format declined and the end of Vortexx happened just as streaming services was starting to take off, as in cable TV wasn't yet in a decline during that point.

Also, it's not entirely true on that company-owned streaming services like Disney+, HBO Max and so on are mostly dumping programs that their parent companies acquired during mergers and acquisitions.

Except by the time Vortexx ended, Cable channels such as Nickelodeon , Cartoon Network and Disney Channel were already declining and also in 2011 the only streaming service that had original programing was Netflix and the other companies did'nt enter the streaming game untill 2015-17 time frame and by that time all they had were programming they aquired through mergers and aquisitons and it took them untill 2017-present for them to even produce original programming for streaming.

 

[Light Lucario]

Except by that time Cable tv was already in decline and there werent any major streaming platforms out there besides Netflix.

The real reason Vortexx decline is simply greed, incompentece on the part of 4kids and the CW network.

To be clear, I was referring more to how they'd be struggling against cable and streaming services if they had been able to last longer. There weren't a lot of other major streaming platforms around that time, but Netflix was still popular. Even without factoring in streaming services, a Saturday morning block airing on broadcast TV was extremely outdated in 2014, yet alone in 2012 when the block first started.

I'm not sure about the greed reason, mainly because I don't know how many companies would have been willing to put their shows on a Saturday morning block, but I agree that the block was handled incompetently. 4Kids didn't have anything to do with Vortexx itself, but their own blocks on the CW not doing well probably didn't help matters either.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Except by the time Vortexx ended, cable channels such as Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and Disney Channel were already declining and also in 2011 the only streaming service that had original programing was Netflix and the other companies didn't enter the streaming game until the 2015-17 time frame and by that time all they had were programming they acquired through mergers and acquisitions and it took them until 2017-present for them to even produce original programming for streaming.

Except streaming hadn't yet overtaken cable television when Vortexx ended in 2014.

 

[ATSFGuy]

Except streaming hadn't yet overtaken cable television when Vortexx ended in 2014.

I could be wrong, but I feel streaming began to gain real momentum 2014-2015. I rarely if ever watched any Saturday Morning Blocks which featured Yu-Gi-Yo! or Marvel Shows. It was mostly the older stuff.