"Justice League Dark: Apokolips War" Animated Release Talkback (Spoilers)

[Yojimbo]

The last scene in Batman: The Brave And The Bold was Batman looking into the camera and telling the kids at home upset about the series ending that Batman will always be out there fighting crime for them. How you can compare something so bittersweet and perfect to the horrific thing I just saw is beyond me.

The series finale of Batman: The Brave and The Bold centered around a selfish individual with the power to make a perfect world but doesn't and instead utterly wrecks an existing one because he thinks causing it to reboot will get the universe he thinks he wants and deserves, inadvertently causing his own demise. It ends on a bittersweet note that Batman and the rest of the characters have accepted their own deaths and choose to spend their last moments together. Batman ends it on the hope that a Batman will always exist to fight crime and save lives.

The series finale of these movies played out because of an individual who came from a well meaning place to keep his world safe but instead inadvertently causes its own destruction. It ends on a bittersweet note with the remains of the Justice League and Teen Titans facing certain death as Earth's last days are marked. Constantine decides to end it by convincing Flash to reboot the universe on the hope they can get it right next time instead of just accepting this Earth's destruction and being wiped from existence.

Yes, there are a lot of glaring differences like the horrific violence and deaths but a lot of parallels.

 

[Fone Bone]

The series finale of Batman: The Brave and The Bold centered around a selfish individual with the power to make a perfect world but doesn't and instead utterly wrecks an existing one because he thinks causing it to reboot will get the universe he thinks he wants and deserves, inadvertently causing his own demise. It ends on a bittersweet note that Batman and the rest of the characters have accepted their own deaths and choose to spend their last moments together. Batman ends it on the hope that a Batman will always exist to fight crime and save lives.

The series finale of these movies played out because of an individual who came from a well meaning place to keep his world safe but instead inadvertently causes its own destruction. It ends on a bittersweet note with the remains of the Justice League and Teen Titans facing certain death as Earth's last days are marked. Constantine decides to end it by convincing Flash to reboot the universe on the hope they can get it right next time instead of just accepting this Earth's destruction and being wiped from existence.

Yes, there are a lot of glaring differences like the horrific violence and deaths but a lot of parallels.

Which tells me there is a right way and a wrong way to tell those types of stories. Which also tells me Apokolips Wars did it the wrong way and should not be defended for it.

Batman: The Brave And The Bold's fans were celebrated for loving and supporting the show over the years. The fewer DCU Movie fans were punished for ever having liked them.

 

[Yojimbo]

Which tells me there is a right way and a wrong way to tell those types of stories. Which also tells me Apokolips Wars did it the wrong way and should not be defended for it.

I'm only debating the ending, not defending the whole movie. I have my own issues with its execution that have nothing to do with the ending.

I also don't consider RT the be all say all of ratings. Recent history has shown that system can be manipulated. 100% on RT sounds suspect.

 

[Fone Bone]

I'm only debating the ending, not defending the whole movie. I have my own issues with its execution that have nothing to do with the ending.

I'm also saying BTAB ended the right way while JLD ended the wrong one.

 

[#TeamMike]

The main issue I had with the film is that the death's in this don't mean anything other than shock value. It almost reached parody levels at points, like the creative team were trying to one-up each other on how over the top the kills could get.

Death without meaning is just a snuff film.

 

[Mostezli]

The main issue I had with the film is that the death's in this don't mean anything other than shock value. It almost reached parody levels at points, like the creative team were trying to one-up each other on how over the top the kills could get.

Death without meaning is just a snuff film.

An interplanetary murderous conqueror and his armies beat the good guys.
One might even say this War was Apocalyptic.
That's the meaning.
There were other rational demises throughout with the last of which on Earth being the biggest rallying cry for the remaining hopefuls.

By the end of the movie, they realized how irreversible this apocalypse was and so Barry had to put an old dog down rather than prolong its misery. That's the bittersweet emotion people who seemed to rate this movie so highly felt.

 

[#TeamMike]

An interplanetary murderous conqueror and his armies beat the good guys.
One might even say this War was Apocalyptic.
That's the meaning.
There were other rational demises throughout with the last of which on Earth being the biggest rallying cry for the remaining hopefuls.

By the end of the movie, they realized how irreversible this apocalypse was and so Barry had to put an old dog down rather than prolong its misery. That's the bittersweet emotion people who seemed to rate this movie so highly felt.

Killing off heroes without any meaning or emotion behind it=stakes. No thank you.

This video perfectly encapsulates what I'm talking about and the problems with the film (some language).

 

[Mostezli]

Killing off heroes without any meaning or emotion behind it = stakes. No thank you.

This video perfectly encapsulates what I'm talking about and the problems with the film (some language).

Really? He reiterated what you and I posted
including stating the obvious as being the meaning and the emotion behind those killings.
Scrolling back on this timestamp, he did in fact acknowledge the genuine peril with the heroes being in disarray
and showcasing their desperation.

He fails to underscore the valiant deaths. He disparages how prior movies factor into this one.
He goes into some rant about characters not being so crass when those exact predicaments make perfect sense
why Cyborg & Raven would talk like that. I think the bigger picture of bringing up
Shiva and Hal Jordan is that one's death should matter more, yet in this universe since their introductions
they clearly fall under his "and sure, not all of them were great" characters.
Swap Hal Jordan for John Stewart's appearance in this movie I guess.
He contradicts himself by saying the movie doesn't have any real message showing a couple of the moments that display any real message disregarding plenty of other instances.

What's your hopeful ending after all this?
Mine would be the New 52's Earth 2, which seems more plausible than ever.

 

[EmaHalJordan]

I don't think the movie wants to get us excited about individual deaths. We are excited when we see what the world has become! And the final impact is the only way to save it!

 

[Yojimbo]

Tucker revealed a few things in a new interview with Word Balloon.

-27:27-40: There was a less bleak ending that handed things off to the next movie. There was the choice of including an end tag or not.

-43:30-44:30: Justice League Darkseid War and Justice League Dark sequel were initially two different movies in the works but they got mooshed together into one after word came down to wrap up the continuity. The Dark sequel was a completely different script.

 

[#TeamMike]

It is a little odd that Justice League Dark is part of the film's title.

 

[hobbyfan]

My viewing party & I chose this over Doom Patrol today. Needed a break.

Odd things:

King Shark is portrayed here as the DCAMU's version of Groot until you least expect it.

Etrigan is comedy relief. Whodathunk?

SO wasn't digging the Cyber-Furies versions of Starfire, Mera, et al.

Damian and Raven---a couple?!?!??!

I don't think Damian's found himself a girlfriend yet in the books.

Hynden Walch's characterization of Harley was enough of a mimic/homage of Arleen Sorkin, such that we thought Arleen had been recruited for a 1-off return.

It's funny how Rainn Wilson's Luthor would sound so much better with the voice coming out of an old school DeSaad....!

 

[Frontier]

I think this movie does serve as a fitting thematic conclusion to James Tucker's animated film in many ways. There was the general high level of violence, gore, and character death....there was a bunch of cool characters, underutilized characters, and cool concepts/characters that they never got to do much with...but it also had love, oddball, hilarious, and even heartwarming character dynamics, and packed full of action. I know I've enjoyed the Tucker films more than most, even if I ackowledge they were never perfect, but I always thought there was a lot of potential to the interconnected films. I'm at least glad they were able to go out on a note that fit the movies well .

I had been wondering why this was called a "Justice League Dark" film until it turned out Constantine was the main character and most of the team appeared to varying degrees of significance. So, not exactly false advertising .

We don't get to see Zatanna in her classic costume, but we do get to see her wearing nothing but a shirt. I guess you have to show off Zatanna's legs at least once. I was kind of worried that she'd just be a voiceless cameo and only serve to fuel John's manpain, but I'm glad they managed to get Camilla Luddington back and Zee managed to help resolve the plot in her own way .

I'm bummed we never got to see the "classic" Furies in action, but this film was kind of light on the New Gods in general other than Darkseid. Considering he had the Mobius Chair, I wondered if Darkseid had already taken out New Genesis by now .

Probably the most controversial aspect of the movie is the mass hero deaths and how brutal they were. On the one hand you want to sell the threat level and how bad things can get, and these films have never shied away from blood and gore, but at the same time it can be tough watching heroes you've been following through several films get such unceremonious and brutal deaths. Even the teenagers !

Would things have worked out better had they not rushed into things? Or would it have ended better without Cyborg being the secret mole? I'm kind of surprised that never came up, but I guess Victor got to redeem himself in the end by practically dealing the final blow, even sacrificially .

Raven dropped an F-Bomb. Raven dropped an F-Bomb .

So was the dead friend who had Etrigan in a funk supposed to be Deadman? He was the only JLD member we didn't see in the movie (except he was already dead, so how could you kill him?) Or was it supposed to be Jason Blood and Etrigan just eventually started missing having Blood around? Fittingly Etrigan died getting impaled like Jason did .

Man, poor Nightwing. It was nice to see Damian finally acknowledge him as his brother and go to such an extent but...he was better off not doing it. At least he reunited with Kori in the end .

"King Shark...is a Shark." I thought they were going for an "I am Groot" thing with King Shark until it turns out he could talk normally the whole time and Boomerang assumes he was screwing with them the whole time. Did he talk like that when he and Constantine were intimate ?

Waller dying of cancer before she could die of the occupation. On the one hand, she had it coming. On the other hand, she deserved worse .

Y'know, there's something oddly funny yet horrific about that of the first things Mobius Chair Batman did after getting let loose by Darkseid was kill Joker. I guess it's pretty simple once you've taken away Batman's sense of morality .

The villains all assuming Damian and Raven "resting" meant they were planning to knock boots. Well, they are teenagers .

Poor Shiva. Taken out unceremoniously by a bullet to the head without getting to do anything. I did love how she kept trying to kick Etrigan even when it became obvious how ineffectual it was .

Y'know Lex, maybe you could have figured this duplicitous scheme in a way that didn't lead to the death of a bunch of your employees or you almost being killed because you went in through a robot instead of just talking it out .

Oh hey, Lois and Clark tied the knot! That's a nice bit of happiness amidst all the chaos and death .

Man, if only Swamp Thing had fought the original Doomsday...would've saved them a lot of trouble .

A gender-balanced Furies? That's a new one .

Y'know, Starfire was actually recently made a herald of Darkseid in the comics, so that was kind of neat in that sense. Also she had mechanical high heels because of course she does .

Well, if anyone wanted a rematch between Batman and Robin...which also pretty conclusively proved Damian didn't have a chance if Bruce ever went full out against him .

Nothing can shock Batman out of a funk more than reminding him of his parents death. I forgot how much child Bruce actually looked like Damian. And it was nice to see father and son finally come together in love after all the drama of their relationship in this continuity .

Was anyone expecting Trigon-possessed Superman? That was probably more surprising than them summing Trigon in the flesh to fight Darkseid .

Constantine made it to Heaven! Sure Zatanna had to pull a few strings, but he still made it .

Only Batman could be so overprepared that he would make sure Zatanna had Constantine make it out alive (at the expense of his own emotional state) so he could end up saving the day. Which worked because, well, Batman. At the same time I'm almost tempted to think it was yet another subtle means of Batman cockblocking Constantine and Zatanna .

So that's how they worked in White Raven! Nice to see her sporting that look again .

I think that is the first time I have ever seen Lois' death turn Superman back to being good instead of turning him evil. Pretty refreshing change of pace. And pretty epic transformation back into his pure Superman form so he could beat the snot out of Darkseid .

Wow, I think that's the first time I have ever seen Trigon show even a smidgen of genuine affection towards Raven, or Raven getting any kind of closure with her father .

The scene with Raven and Robin in the infirmary seemed like the perfect spot for a kiss, but I'm glad they saved it for the end. It was a nice and romantic way to cap things off before the universe reset .

Not that Cyborg's final line wasn't fitting, but I would've put "Booyah" there, if anywhere. Just my two cents .

I liked that Barry mentioned Iris amidst all this conflicted feelings with what's going on...too bad we never got to meet her .

And things come full circle with Flashpoint...I guess it's sad that for all the heroes efforts in defeating Darkseid, they couldn't save the Earth (even if Superman still believes they could), but Barry resetting the timeline again to a hopefully better, brighter, world may have been the only way to bring this to a close. Did he reset it to the Lukic-verse? Earth-16? Something we really shouldn't overthink? We may never know...

-27:27-40: There was a less bleak ending that handed things off to the next movie. There was the choice of including an end tag or not.

I would've liked it, but considering it would've led into Man of Tomorrow it probably would have implicated a new universe/continuity that the creators weren't firm about at the time.