Question for the Soggy one....

[Do-Do]

Mr. Sogturtle - if that is your real name - you seem to know what pretty much everyone who was working in the animation business in the 30's or 40's was doing throughout their careers. But there are a few names that have left me scratching my head until I can't scratch no more....

When Schlesinger was forming his own cartoon studio after Harman and Ising left, I know he went through a bunch of unsuccessful people before hitting upon a good staff of animators and directors. I know about Tom Palmer and Earl Duvall, but there are a few people working in 1933 and 34 that I can't ever remember hearing about ever again. And they are...
Bill Mason (animator on Buddy's Day Out)
James Pabian (animator on Buddy's Showboat)
Frank Tipper (credited on a number of cartoons)
Riley Thompson (actually worked during 1935-36, but I still don't know of anything else the guy did)

Heck, if ANYONE knows what happened to these guys I'd be a happy camper. Though I do not plan on doing any camping....

 

[Sogturtle]

Mr. Sogturtle - if that is your real name - you seem to know what pretty much everyone who was working in the animation business in the 30's or 40's was doing throughout their careers. But there are a few names that have left me scratching my head until I can't scratch no more....

When Schlesinger was forming his own cartoon studio after Harman and Ising left, I know he went through a bunch of unsuccessful people before hitting upon a good staff of animators and directors. I know about Tom Palmer and Earl Duvall, but there are a few people working in 1933 and 34 that I can't ever remember hearing about ever again. And they are...
Bill Mason (animator on Buddy's Day Out)
James Pabian (animator on Buddy's Showboat)
Frank Tipper (credited on a number of cartoons)
Riley Thompson (actually worked during 1935-36, but I still don't know of anything else the guy did)

Heck, if ANYONE knows what happened to these guys I'd be a happy camper. Though I do not plan on doing any camping....

Dear Member-Shmember Mr. Do Do

Ahhhhhh it's great to feel loved And thank you for bringing your questions to 'Ask a turtle' . Buuuuuut any-whey (milking a gag )... Yes some of the earliest people that Leon Schlesinger hired did not stay long. Amongst these were a mix of folks fresh from Disney (Jack King, Earl Duvall, Paul Fennell, Tom Palmer etc.) and those hired away from other studios (Don Williams, Bob Clampett, Frank Tipper etc., some of which were only junior-animators (or even assistants). But back to your specific questions... Yes I do know what became of these particular dudes. So here goes...

Bill Mason (animator on Buddy's Day Out)--Mason was born in England, and he was another of the Disneyites at Leon's. Intriguingly he and Frank Tipper (and Cal Dalton) all animated on Ted Eshbaugh's 1933 indie Technicolor cartoon "The Wizard Of Oz". After Leon's he was definitely at Lantz from Spring '35 till his tragic death in 1937. His family provided me with info on him plus a good clear photo of him that belonged to his young widow, as well as an animation drawing with Bill's name clearly written on it.

James Pabian (animator on Buddy's Showboat) One of Chuck Jones' close friends (even boarded with Chuck's family at one point). Jim was a talented animator trained by Ub Iwerks (he was employed there from 1930 till quitting in '33). In fact he was a talented enough animator to work at the up-and-coming Harman-Ising Pictures INC., and that's straight where he went after quitting Leon's in 1934... Pathetically the Copyright Catalog listed his name on his only Schlesinger credit "Buddy's Showboat" NOT as James Pabian, but as James FABIAN!! His name was almost certainly the one removed from "Buddy's Bearcats" (rel. June '34). After jumping to Hugh and Rudy's he stayed loyal to them right up to their being put directly on the Metro payroll, and then stayed on till WWII. And for the Disney-fiends, yes he animated on Harman-Ising's one Silly Symphony "Merbabies" in 1938. As I've pointed out once before Jim Pabian's talent and loyalty eventually turned him into Hugh Harman's right hand man. Later Pabian drew comics, and much later wrote a Tom and Jerry story for Chuck at MGM. And Chuck then let him direct one T & J for him.

Frank Tipper --Okay once again, here we have another early Disney animator who found his way to Leon's in '33 and stayed until late 1934. From there like many animators of significant talent he leapt over to Harman-Ising, where he happily stayed for three years. It was Tipper who testified that MGM illegally tried to hire him away from H-I in the Spring of 1937. He held on to Harman till out of necessity in late '37, he quit (but NOT to work for MGM or Disney). Frank took the road-less-desired and accepted employment at Walter Lantz's where his name turns up regularly from mid-'38 till 1942.

Riley Thompson-- For whatever MAD reasons Riley went to Disney in the Spring of 1936. I say "mad" for several reasons, both that he may have been mad, and that it was crazy, because at Walt's he was immediately demoted to assistant animator and forced to stay in that capacity for two years! After that trial by fire he was rehabilitated to full animator and then in the early Forties became one of only two ex-Schlesingerites ever allowed to direct at Walt's (the other was T. Hee, and YES I didn't include Jack King since he was Disney to start with ). Imagine how Frank Tashlin felt on seeing this happen, while he kept slaving over Disney stories and being turned down to direct by Walt... Sadly Riley died at the not-very-ripe age of 47...

Annnnnnd no doubt next you'll be asking about Sandy (Alexander) Walker...

 

[Frank]

Another Question....

I have a question for you too soggy; What happened to the composers Bernard Brown and Norman Spencer? They seem to be gone after 1936. I heard that Bernard Brown may have left and Norman Spencer died shortly after.

 

[JDWeil]

I have a question for you too soggy; What happened to the composers Bernard Brown and Norman Spencer? They seem to be gone after 1936. I heard that Bernard Brown may have left and Norman Spencer died shortly after.

Bernard Brown became active in L.A.'s musical scene and formed a string quartet. Norman Spencer (who was also in charge of the sound FX dept. probably died from too much guzzling. Carl Stalling reported finding his desk full of liquor bottles.

 

[Sogturtle]

I have a question for you too soggy; What happened to the composers Bernard Brown and Norman Spencer? They seem to be gone after 1936. I heard that Bernard Brown may have left and Norman Spencer died shortly after.

Frank~

Yes Bernard Brown did leave Schlesingers in 1936 (a lot of people left there in 1936 some for greener pastures some for browner pastures ). In Bernard's case it was decidedly for greener ones though. He immediately became the sound engineer/sound director on a whole cabooseful of feature-films for Universal. Was he successful at it?? He won two Oscars doing it...!! This phase of his career lasted a full decade (and then some) after his time at Schlesinger. I have his obituary lurking in my files. Some may find his obit curious since it failed to make note of his Schlesinger/Warner cartoon work... But considering that he only spent a brief three years with Leon that is well understandable.

As for Norman Spencer... He's a hard nut to crack. Without a doubt he's the man who kept on refusing to hire or even audition Mel Blanc... Why is anybody's guess (arrogance?, fear for his own job since Mel had a musical background? drunken stupidity?). He did no further film work after 1936 (nor any radio or record work I know of) so that almost certainly does point to an early death due to alcohol. And that gibes with the story of his dying suddenly in 1936. Buuuuuut I still have never found an obituary for him (unless it's a very brief one laying in my files now forgotten, and that's possible).

 

[Do-Do]

Thanks a lot Soggy! I actually was also wondering about Bernard Brown and Norman Spencer last night....

And may I take this opprotunity to say that I've always thought Brown's scores were better than Spencer's. Brown had a smoother, jazzier approach, while Spencer seemed obsessed with xylophones, flutes, and piccolo trumpets. Rather annoying. Of course, I think Carl Stalling beats the 1930's pants off both of them.

And that Wizard Of Oz cartoon you mentioned..... I have that on one of those 6 Hours Of Cartoons public domain tapes. I thought it might have been Ub Iwerks at first, but it just seemed too weird. Stalling did the music I noticed, and there was an animator credited as 'Hutch'. It's a very strange cartoon, who released it anyway?

 

[JDWeil]

Thanks a lot Soggy! I actually was also wondering about Bernard Brown and Norman Spencer last night....

And may I take this opprotunity to say that I've always thought Brown's scores were better than Spencer's. Brown had a smoother, jazzier approach, while Spencer seemed obsessed with xylophones, flutes, and piccolo trumpets. Rather annoying. Of course, I think Carl Stalling beats the 1930's pants off both of them.

And that Wizard Of Oz cartoon you mentioned..... I have that on one of those 6 Hours Of Cartoons public domain tapes. I thought it might have been Ub Iwerks at first, but it just seemed too weird. Stalling did the music I noticed, and there was an animator credited as 'Hutch'. It's a very strange cartoon, who released it anyway?

The Wizard Of Oz short was produced by Ted Esbaugh and according to what I've read about it, was never released due to a copyright battle between Esbaugh, the Baum Estate, and the publisher of the Oz books. This short is quite remarkable in that it is a pre-echo of the MGM feature by putting the Kansas scenes in B&W and the Oz scenes in Technicolor (2 strip). Ted Esbaugh is one animation pioneer that deserves more exposure.

 

[Sogturtle]

Ahhhhh... Something NEW has been added!!!

Thanks a lot Soggy! I actually was also wondering about Bernard Brown and Norman Spencer last night....

And may I take this opprotunity to say that I've always thought Brown's scores were better than Spencer's. Brown had a smoother, jazzier approach, while Spencer seemed obsessed with xylophones, flutes, and piccolo trumpets. Rather annoying. Of course, I think Carl Stalling beats the 1930's pants off both of them.

And that Wizard Of Oz cartoon you mentioned..... I have that on one of those 6 Hours Of Cartoons public domain tapes. I thought it might have been Ub Iwerks at first, but it just seemed too weird. Stalling did the music I noticed, and there was an animator credited as 'Hutch'. It's a very strange cartoon, who released it anyway?

[NEW and IMPROVED! or was that old and crummy?? New paragraph at end]
Do-Do (hopefully NOT the Kid From Outer Space )

(second time I've written this )

Interesting observations on Brown's versus Spencer's musical approaches... Most people tend to view them as essentially identical. At this point I could tell you a story, but I won't Okay sooooo now we're off to see the wizard... Its release was caught up in some problems, though according to one source he never found any record of legal action between the Baum estate and Eshbaugh, which may validate the story that it was a legal hassle over Technicolor. But anyway, like everything of Eshbaugh's it is unique, odd, strange in a fun way. Ted Eshbaugh was of course known for being a New York director (he was at Van Beuren in '34 and '35 where he made the funky and fun "Sunshine Makers") but perversely the entire crew of "Wizard Of Oz" were known to be West Coast animators in the early Thirties. Does this mean that Eshbaugh actually animated it in California? (Likely, and similar to the three 'Cubby Bear' toons being made by Harman-Ising for Van Beuren in '33). Orrrrr that he had them all journey back East to work for him? (very unlikely). I brought this up to Mr. Beck three years ago and he agreed with me that the inclusion of people like "Hutch" most likely pointed to it REALLY being made in Hollywood (even if by mail!). Iffffff it was truly made in 1933 then it was either animated just before Leon Schlesinger opened his doors, or that three Schlesigner animators moonlighted on it and got away with it (not likely).

Okay so now you and I have both invoked "Hutch's" name, bringing up the issue of "who the heck was he?" From what I know of him, he had been a silent-screen animator and worked on the "Red Head Comedies" of the mid-Twenties (even then as 'Hutch'). By the very, very early Thirties he was in Hollywood, Graham Webb claims he animated on "Goofy Goat Antics" for Eshbaugh in 1931. What's definite is that by Spring of 1931 he was working for Disney as his name crops up there on toons released from Sept. '31 and on into early '32. Buuuuut like a number of other silent animators he was demoted and never made it past assistant-animator at Walt's during the time I know he was there in '31 and '32. It's alleged that he also worked on other Eshbaugh indie cartoons as well, including years later the famed "Cap 'N Cub". Bet you're sorry you brought his name up



Breaking news!!! (okay broken news )
A few hours ago I received a reply back from a source of mine who stated that he knew that Cal Dalton had animated on Eshbaugh's "Goofy Goat Antics" (this backs up Graham Webb about both Dalton and presumably 'Hutch' on that film as well). It would thus appear that 'Hutch' left Eshbaugh for Disney then returned to Ted in 1932-33 ("an animator for Eshbaugh is better than an assistant for Disney" ). My source also agrees that it is very likely that all these Ted Eshbaugh toons of '31-'33 were animated in Hollywood. As far as I can reconstruct Cal Dalton jumped directly from the collapsing Romer-Grey studio over to Eshbaugh in 1931. It's believed that Frank Tipper and Vet Anderson animated on Ted's "The Snowman".

What this is all adding up to in my mind is of some consequence... Namely that whatever happened to Eshbaugh's west coast operation in 1933 it definitely helped pave the way for the rapid founding of the Leon Schlesinger Studio, as it provided several of the more skilled animators of the period.

 

[Sogturtle]

It MUST be something about Elvis' birthday that makes me forgetful ... A key nugget I left out of the above post was the REAL name of "Hutch" (how could I leave that out?!?!?). Sooooo, with my apology firmly in hand, Starsky's pardner's name was Andrew Hutchinson.