Home News The CW’s Arrow to End at Season 8

The CW’s Arrow to End at Season 8

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Via Entertainment Weekly, even though The CW recently renewed Arrow next year for an 8th season back at the end of January, it will be its last season.  Stephen Amell, the Green Arrow himself, announced the end of Arrow on Twitter late this afternoon.

Amell also elaborated on his decision to end the show on Facebook Live via video saying he thought it was time to end things and that he made the decision with his family in mind.

All good things…

Posted by Stephen Amell on Wednesday, March 6, 2019

The final season, which will air next fall, will be a short 10 episodes.  Amell also added that even though Arrow is ending, this might not be the last time we see him as the green archer, especially considering the several spin-off shows from the Arrowverse.

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148 COMMENTS

  1. Nice seeing Brick, Bronze Tiger, and Samson again.
    Oliver’s naked shower fight scene was a dozy.

    Yeah, that was awkward with the Felicity/ARGUS stuff.
    Also weird was that Black Siren is now the DA of Star City. WHAT?!
    Diggle look spiffy in his ARGUS uniform.

    Not sure about this flash forward business with Roy and William.

    Guess I better like those flash forwards as show runner Beth Schwartz says they are here to stay.

    ‘Arrow’ Flash-Forwards Will Remain Until Series Ends Says Showrunner

  2. I love the fact that we didn’t see the Argus save. Details in the following review:

    Arrow "Inmate 4587"

    To be blunt, that didn’t actually wow me. But on the other hand, besides the fake out dream sequence at the beginning, it didn’t make too many errors either.

    I am a little leery of the idea of flashforwards, especially to when William is an adult. It might box the show in too much, which is a concern to me. But if the writers have a good plan, like they did on Lost, it could work. It’s just it’s Berlanti. He is NOT Carlton Cuse. No WAY they have a solid plan. Nuh uh. I am beyond skeptical. This is the producer of shows who made a season long gimmick of Flash finally having to defeat a villain by outthinking him, and had the resolution being that his wife unplugged his wheelchair instead. That was freaking last year. NO way this ends well.

    Of course the new Green Arrow is Roy. It’s weird that nobody is even considering that it is.

    When Oliver walks away from that guy getting beat, I actually thought Oliver was pretty much worthless. He made up for it at the end of the episode, but that was a sucky thing to do, on a series where Oliver Queen has done nonstop sucky things.

    I’m still not sure why this show simply has Bronze Tiger be an outright bad guy, instead of turning him into a hero. But they had the same problem with Huntress, and to a lesser extent Vigilante.

    Not buying Laurel as the new D.A.. It is not credible that a "former vigilante" would be placed in that position. Dinah as chief of police makes a little more sense, but it’s still problematic for the same reason.

    Felicity sending William away to boarding school is 100% the wrong call. I’m not saying that she should have gone into witness protection with him again. But he should have been living with Argus where she would have easy access to him. This is already tough enough on the poor kid.

    Diaz made another huge mistake this episode, which is par for the course, and something I like. He took a shot at Felicity and missed. That is probably the dumbest thing the character has ever done, and I like that he did it because he doesn’t tend to do a ton of dumb stuff. What I especially like is that it is entirely believable he WOULD do something that dumb, even if, generally speaking, he isn’t. Because he IS obsessed with respect and entitlement, so it makes sense that he monologues to Felicity, allowing her time enough to survive until Argus steps in.

    What do I feel about not seeing the Argus save? I think that was a deliberate choice by the writers, and even if it’s not one I would have made myself, I like it. It makes Felicity showing up in the prison the Godsend to the viewer it is to Oliver. We wouldn’t have been as relieved as we were if we saw her fate.

    And yes, I am well aware that the show is not going to kill off Felicity Smoak. That doesn’t actually matter from a storytelling perspective. A good story can and will make you worry about those things, no matter how popular the character is, or how unlikely killing off a cast member that big is. And yeah, I did feel relief even if I knew deep down she was all right. It was a legit storytelling choice, and even if I wouldn’t have done it, I totally understand and accept the show doing it.

    Now amazing, but not full of unforced errors like the premiere of Riverdale was. As far as Berlantiverse goes, I’ll call that an outright win. ****.

  3. So instead of flashing back, we flash forward now. Whee.

    Still feel Diaz should’ve been caught at the end of last season. Why did they do this? Because the writers are morons. Diaz figured out where Felicity & William were, and he would probably have connections to the witness protection program. He has to be captured NOW! End this storyline before the crossover in December.

    Berlanti employs idiots on his writing staff. No research, no common sense.

    Anyone think Laurel is still working the double agent angle?

    Cody Rhodes (Runnels) returns as Derek Sampson. Didn’t think it’d be this quick, but I knew he’d re-upped. Vinnie Jones has lost whatever appeal he had as an actor. The sooner Ollie’s back on the streets, the better.

    Yeah, it’s pretty obvious Roy’s under the hood. Remember, he left with Thea before the end of last season, so he’s been gone more than five months. The reason Dinah, Rene, & Curtis haven’t thought of it is because of the moron writers.

    Any of us could write this better.

  4. Arrow "The Longbow Hunters"

    Good week. I mean, yeah. Good week. Let’s pick through the nitty gritty.

    I found Oliver framing the guard for stabbing him to be highly unethical, especially since the guy had a previously spotless record. But do you know why it was clever (besides keeping the guy alive?) First off, it was the best situation of no good options. It was either that or the guy dies. At least this way, the guy lives, and Oliver collects his favor from Brick. The second smart thing about the solution is that from what I know and have seen of Brick, self-sacrifice and being willing to do whatever it takes on his behalf is something Brick values. He’s the kind of guy who respects men who bleed for him. So while he may have ordered Oliver to handle that an entirely different way, I have to think that would have secretly impressed him more.

    Oliver’s buddy thinks he’s untouchable. It untrue, but it’s endearing. I love that he calls their hijinks Green Arrow missions. That isn’t what they are, but if I were working with Oliver Queen on a random project I’d call it that too.

    Emily Bett Rickards sounds like she has a cold, or at least a sore throat. I don’t know why this is, but for some reason she is emoting better than usual because of it. Is it possible because colds are frustrating and draining which is why Felicity is able to channel that so perfectly? Or does the cold simply make her voice sound deeper, raspier, and harsher? It’s hard to say, but were I John Diggle I would have taken a couple of steps back from her during several points in the episode.

    Laurel claims she is not That Person any more and actually cared about Quentin. While I think the Quentin thing is true, the truth is she WAS That Person less than a year ago. It’s way too soon to be claiming a triumph of personal growth in that short an amount of time. I think her apology to Dinah was a good start. But that’s all it was: A start. As far as I’m concerned she is owed no benefit of the doubt by Dinah merely by her own sayso.

    Good to know the flashforwards won’t take place entirely on Lian Yu. That would have been beyond frustrating to me if they had taken a whole season on the island. The flashforwards in Lost were amazing because they could take place anywhere with any character, and you were always surprised and learned new things. I hope and think that’s what Arrow is going for.

    Very cool William is gay. But it sounds like he hasn’t seen Oliver or Felicity since she shipped him off to that boarding school.

    One of the things I have to keep in mind about the flashforwards boxing things in is that this is the Arrowverse. If the flashforwards this season get a bad reception from viewers, I am encouraged that they could simply have Flash or the Legends undo it via time travel if they mess up the story too badly. I was really worried last week, but I forgot that there is an escape hatch built into two of the main premises of the Arrowverse. I hope they don’t eff things up so badly they’ll need to use them. This is Berlanti so it could go either way. But a retcon is possible if things get too big a mess.

    As I said, it was a good week. ****.

  5. I have hoping since ARROW started that Red Dart would appear.
    Although I thought it would be the original version "Jonathan Mallory" whose 1st appearance was in WORLD’S FINEST COMICS #95.
    But the female Red Dart is cool, love the shades.

    Don’t know if the female Red Dart comes from the books, but she may just be this show’s answer to Shades over on Luke Cage..!

    Silencer in this series uses a null field, but no costume. Ok.

    IIRC, in the books, wasn’t Connor Hawke (Ollie’s son) also retconned as gay? Connor was part of DC’s mid-90’s youth movement, in case anyone doesn’t know. Think I read somewhere that he’d been outed or came out, but I don’t have all the details.

    Dinah & Laurel have achieved peace. That works.

    Diaz makes a brief appearance. At least he didn’t chew the scenery this time.

  6. So, does the name Longbow Hunters actually make sense in the context of the show? Yes, the name comes from Mike Grell’s limited series, but there it referred to Ollie and Shado. Much later, the LBH team was assembled specifically to take on Green Arrow; that’s not so much the case here. Does anyone on the team of assassins at least use a longbow?
  7. I remember Mike Grell’s Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters miniseries back in the day. Don’t remember the Hunters being more than a 1-shot thing. Silencer came from the League of Assassins in the books, and, as we know, has her own book, where she’s a hero or anti-hero.

    Hate the snail’s pace of this storyline. Since Ollie’s part of the crossover, he’d have to be out by then.

    Surprising to see Watson wave good-bye. Sounds like there might be a cover-up related to Diaz (what a shock).

    I’m wondering if Cody Runnels (nee Rhodes) choreographed his fight sequences himself. He & Stephen Amell have become buds the last three years, so it’d make sense.

  8. Arrow "Crossing Lines"

    The problem of the teaser reminds the viewer that context is everything. That being said, the teaser didn’t work. The show does so many fake-out dream sequences that I wasn’t sure whether Oliver was dreaming that scenario until we hit the "Blank Hours Earlier" caption. And while there were no fake-out dream sequences in this episode, I hope everyone can see exactly how damaging they are to any franchise. They are not a case of being able to have your cake and eat it too. It means I question the veracity of everything I see onscreen, which is bad. It’s terrible from a storytelling perspective. I should be allowed to express shock as Oliver stabs a prison guard. But I cannot in the moment it is happening, because I’m not sure it actually is. And I take shots at the show using the fake-outs it does. This is why I take those shots. Because they weaken the show, and even weaken episodes that don’t use the trope. Nothing bad happening in Arrow will land as hard as it needs to because The Arrowverse traffics in fake-out dreams sequences. And that’s a problem for a drama. I don’t want to be one of those fans who bashes the writers’ intelligence or question why they have jobs. That’s not productive. But the truth is, this is not something that would ever effect a competent show. Not in a million years. As much smack as I talk about the Buffyverse, most of the rare fake-out sequences they did were things that you could pretty much already tell were dreams at the time. I never questioned the reality of the rest of the show. And this is the precise reason that trope is so damaging. I think the teaser failed, therefore the episode did too, due to things that didn’t even happen in this episode. And that shows how ultimately weak the show is in my mind, and why I will never be able to enjoy it properly ever again. And I feel sad about that, especially because this episode taken by itself was actually pretty good! But I was moved by it much less than I should have been, because the earlier episodes had routinely been trafficking in pure nonsense and I can never tell what’s what and when I’m being jerked around. And that’s a shame, because as I said, the episode was pretty good.

    Diaz has sort of been the White Whale this season, but what’s interesting is that he has much less screentime now than did before. To be honest, I love the fact that Kirk Acevedo used to EMOTE (read hammily overact) but it’s interesting they’ve kept the character relatively grounded so far this year, even when he’s trying to assassinate Felicity, or juicing on a chemical that gives him superstrength.

    I was not surprised Silencer was secretly captured. But I figured it happened under Felicity’s nose, and was Rene’s doing alone. This is much better. This is much more interesting because Felicity lets a woman who risked her career for her be fired rather than giving away the best lead they have. It’s despicable, but like any despicable thing Felicity ever does, it’s "Felicity Despicable". It’s not something I’d ever complain about another character doing, and I’ll easily be able to forgive her. Heck, at this point, I’m not even mad.

    I like that the show is giving Bronze Tiger some nuance. It bums me out that Oliver is changing levels for next week right as that happened. Bronze Tiger is supposed to be a hero in the DC Universe. And it seemed like the show seemed to be starting to set him up for that. But they won’t ever get to it as long as Oliver’s has moved levels. Too bad.

    Dig and Lilah’s arc seems very predictable to me of him distrusting her, her proving her loyalty, and him realizing he’s a chump. Maybe if I’m being charitable it’s not simply predictable. It’s consistent. It’s a constant factor in their relationship, and something John is going to have to deal with that more than usual because they are now working together. Just because I saw every beat coming doesn’t mean it bothered me.

    No flashforwards this week. Good. I don’t like them, and they seem to lessen my enjoyment a bit week by week. I’m glad they won’t an Every Episode Thing, like the flashbacks were for the first five seasons.

    The climatic fight scene was amazing. Thought that was worth mentioning.

    That was a good episode. That I’m giving a failing grade simply because the show was unable to move me in the way it was trying to because I don’t believe in it anymore. That’s really unfortunate. **.

  9. There seems to some confusion over the LONGBOW HUNTERS name.
    Yes it was a Mike Grell GA mini-series.
    But in the New52/Rebirth era its a name of a villains group, enemies of GA.
    Although Killer Moth is a member he is not an enemy of GA.

    Hopefully this article will clear things up.

    ‘Arrow’: Who Are The Longbow Hunters? [Updated]

    Oh, I know all of that, and at least Brick is present in the show even though he isn’t one of the Longbow Hunters here. My question is whether the name makes any sense in the context of Arrow, where they are a legendary group of assassins and not a team gathered together specifically to oppose Green Arrow?

  10. So we’re all in agreement Arrow is just killing time until the Crossover happens right? I mean, at least Barry in prison only lasted three episodes.

    Despite that I do actually enjoy Ollie in prison. Yeah the plot is moving at a snails pace but at least it fun watching all those fight scenes.

    Not gonna lie, but Emily Rickards performance is just always falling flat for me. When you juxtapose her with Candice Patton, Candice’s Iris seems to just be able to do more with less.

    She’s not convincing at all as a desperate wife/mother who’s at the end of her rope. I’m also LOLing at Felicity seemingly be safer when shes actively going after Diaz as opposed to hiding from him.

    Like did our boy Ricardo all of sudden abandon his plot to kill Felicity? Because if breaking into the CDC was no sweat for him, I’m sure he can figure out shes crashing at Rene’s couch.

    Typically I’m cool with dropping plot threads, its comes with networks TV, but for some reason this feels more egregious.

  11. Arrow "Level Two"

    This is what I knew would happen with the flashforwards and dreaded. Odds are Felicity faked her death but I still don’t have to like that cliffhanger.

    I also really dislike the notion that Felicity is being groomed to torture and kill. In a recent review for Supergirl I noted that the producers of these shows are writing about what it means to be a hero without actually understanding what it means. I definitely appreciate the fact that being a vigilante is not black or white. But The Arrowverse always uses murder and torture as a "Rite of Passage" and as if the character doing it for the first time is merely losing their virginity. And the shows seems to go out of its way and try to infect more and more characters that weren’t like that with that particular sickness. If the show were actually about what it means to be a hero it wouldn’t be doing that over and over again. The message would be the opposite. So yeah, for me, the reason I watch the show, the human drama, was a failure.

    I actually liked the stuff with Dinah and Rene. Rick Gonzalez has gotten REALLY good at emoting and with Paul Blackthorne gone, he’s the go-to guy for it now. And it sort of works.

    The one thing that worked and didn’t work at the same time was the brainwashing of Oliver. I resent the fact that the doctor is evil and is trying to get Oliver to lose his humanity and refer to himself as a number. That’s bogus. Because his advice is otherwise great. His promise to Robert on that boat was made under duress, and his father was a murderer. I am glad there is a person who reminded us that the bodyguard was an actual person with a family, not somebody to be cast aside for Oliver’s personal growth. Why are they making the guy who is correctly pointing out that Oliver is basing his mission around a desperate promise for a terrible person, and will bring that down on his son, evil? It doesn’t make sense to me. That particular thing doesn’t just make me think that the writers don’t know what being a hero means. They don’t seem to know what being a good person means. A person speaking that specific truth to Oliver should not be seen as a villain or a torturer trying to harm him. Because in reality everything he told him was true. All of the serums and machines cloud an issue that doesn’t deserve to be clouded at all.

    I am frustrated. And I don’t see any way out of this frustration short of me stopping watching these shows. Is that actually going to have to be a consideration at some point? Because there needs to be a limit for any franchise, and Supergirl and Arrow keep crossing it over and over again, and I keep pretending things are going to get better. And this is me no longer thinking that. *1/2.

  12. Prison psychologists are supposed to help prisoners transition out of a life of crime. This quack has Hugo Strange written all over him, except that he doesn’t do goofy experiments. As corrupt as Star City’s criminal justice system became last year thanks to Diaz, I’d not be surprised if that dork, who was MIA in this episode, is pulling the strings with Dr. Quack.

    I’m starting not to like the flash-forwards, too. Let’s get to the end of this story yesterday!

  13. Arrow "The Demon"

    Like my recent Supergirl review, I am now reviewing Arrow through the lens of a critic instead of fan. Also like Supergirl, this week was better than the previous week that caused me to stop being a fan.

    But Lord, there were problems. And the show is probably gonna suck next week. I’m looking forward to Anatole, and am rooting for him. But one of the reasons next week is probably gonna suck is because the courtroom drama is again, crap.

    They cannot appeal Oliver’s “conviction”. Why? He doesn’t have one. He wasn’t convicted. He took a deal and pled guilty. Once you plead guilty, you cannot appeal. That’s the compromise D.A.’s use to dangle deals to perps in the first place. If you could appeal deals, there would be no point in offering them. This is why for a lawyer’s client, an acquittal is always preferable. ALWAYS. Most lawyers are unable to secure that, especially for guilty people, but people hate taking deals because unlike convictions, you can’t appeal them. So next week’s Berlanti courtroom hijinks are going to suck right off the bat, because the writers don’t do any research. What bothers me is that I know this stuff, and I didn’t actually do any research. I’ve just watched enough Law & Order. For Berlanti and his gaggle of inferior writers, his output seems to exist in a vacuum only occupied by itself and other sci-fi or comic book stuff. They really don’t bother learning the basics of TV 101 regarding the justice system. The writers are super lazy. And it doesn’t affect just the Arrowverse. Riverdale currently sucks for the same reasons. Berlanti expects the bare minimum from his writers, and they never fail to live down to that. When Arrow was the only big show he had, things were run pretty tight. Once he started branching out into over a dozen series, some related, some not, they all suffered for it. The worst thing is that Berlanti doesn’t seem to believe in fact checkers, or script editors, or even professional consultants in given fields to help make things authentic. And that’s a bummer.

    What’s nuts is that they don’t need to actually appeal a conviction to get Oliver out of prison using that info as leverage. They can simply get him early release, or his sentence commuted, or even a pardon. This show is only as fake seeming and stupid as it is because nobody believes they need to try. Which is a bit infuriating.

    I am very happy the Demon was Talia Al Ghul. That is the only person it should have been, and I’m glad the series lived up to my hopes and expectations. Great Batman hint too. He’s definitely a thing in the Arrowverse, and is already Talia’s enemy. But I kind of question how Batman can be Batman at all without Ra’s. But that’s a question for a different, yet-to-be-produced, series.

    The courtroom stuff last season also did a really bad thing. It made me question the authenticity of everything else on the show. I can work with and accept the horrible prison stuff, because it is portrayed as abnormal and something for Oliver to fix. And it is to his credit he makes sure to fix it. They don’t need to make things authentic as long as they are considered extreme. But the Argus stuff is another thing entirely. And I thought I was gonna love the Argus stuff this season. I should have. Wasn’t Curtis’ Crowing Moment of Awesome just perfect?

    Except I don’t think it ever should have happened. Argus is supposed to be the Arrowverse’s version of a combo of the CIA’s top agents, by way of the Navy Seals. Pretty much the best of the best. If an agent on a team of that caliber is wavering the way Curtis is, they don’t get put in the field, much less sent on a mission where a terrorist can get ahold of a dangerous chemical weapon. I think Curtis’ personal growth is important to ME, and HIM, and maybe John, but it’s not important enough to jeopardize national security. And maybe I only notice this because it’s The Arrowverse, but whenever this stuff happened on Alias, it was considered a mistake. When Marshall went undercover, bad things tended to happen to him. And if they aren’t using a wishy-washy agent as a cautionary tale, and are acting like that’s the process for an average agent, they aren’t doing their research. Frankly Marshall in the field was bad too, but at least SD-6 was an evil organization, and didn’t actually care about the well-being of their agents. There is no excuse for a law abiding one to do this. Agencies like the CIA and the Seals want their agents to not only successfully complete the mission, but to survive. Those are the two goals. And you can’t reasonably expect either of those things, especially on the crucial missions, if you have a squeamish guy on the freaking fence. That’s not how it works.

    I noticed something good about the episode that was bad at the same time. Felicity was acting sensibly again. I am relieved she is back to normal, but honestly? It troubles me that she is. It means she is being written inconsistently from episode to episode, depending on who sends in the script. For a character like Felicity Smoak, that is terrible. Felicity is a character very much like Marge Simpson in that she has to be written 100% perfectly every single week for the character to work at all. I am convinced The Simpsons was the in wilderness for as long as it was because Marge lost her way, and the show lost its rational center. They could have Marge be normal SOME weeks. But unlike the earlier seasons, it wasn’t EVERY week, and that was probably a bigger cause of Simpsons doldrums than Flanderization or Jerkass Homer could ever hope to be. And that’s the problem of the writers disagreeing about where to go with Felcity. The show has now lost its center, or at least the center as she is supposed to be. And one of the things I loved about Felicity Smoak in the first three seasons of Arrow, is that they DID take the extra effort to make sure she was written perfectly. And once they stopped doing that in season 4 is when like The Simpsons, the show lost its way. And yeah, I differ with other fans who dislike Season 3. It’s not as great as Seasons 1 or 2 by any means, but it’s still pretty great in and of itself. And that’s because it hadn’t started damaging the cast for plot convenience. And when that started happening to Felicity, and then Dig, things became a mess, and one that I don’t see them being able to clean up as long as that production company is spread as thin as it is. While the Berlantiverse is more concerned with crossovers and finding new ways to launch related shows, the "minutia" like authenticity and consistent characterization is going to fall by the wayside. The bad thing for me is that the things that are falling by the wayside are the only things I actually care about. And that’s why I’m no longer a fan.

    This was better than last week, but that’s a pretty low freaking bar. And when I can no longer trust whether or not Felicity Smoak is going to be a hot mess or not on a weekly basis, we have problems. And Felicity being written correctly this week didn’t actually allay my fears. If anything, it exacerbated them. Because it means the writers don’t actually have a handle on things. I am still concerned even if it was a passable week. ***.

  14. But I kind of question how Batman can be Batman at all without Ra’s. But that’s a question for a different, yet-to-be-produced, series.

    Well, Batman had existed for 30 years before Ra’s al Ghul was even invented. And Ra’s had not been connected to Batman’s origin story at all until Nolan’s Batman Begins.

    I agree that the courtroom shenanigans and legal melodrama in the Arrowverse shows have been terribly written and terribly (if at all) researched.

  15. I finally watched it this morning before going to work.

    Talia is "The Demon". That shouldn’t have been a surprise to long time viewers. I count myself among those who "should’ve seen this coming". That she killed Dr. Quack after escaping was anti-climatic.

    It shouldn’t surprise anyone either that Diaz decided to go to Moscow to go after Anatoly, after the latter betrayed him last season.

    Funny thing. Consulting producer Marc Guggenheim was a lawyer before giving that up to be a writer. You’d think that as a consultant, Marc would school the writing idiots on legal precedents and such, or they’re just ignoring him.

    The problem I have is that they are stalling on the endgame to this melodrama. We know from the "Elseworlds" teaser that Barry & Ollie will switch bodies somehow (or the actors will switch roles for a week, whatever), which would mean Ollie should be out of Slabside in the next 2-3 episodes.

    Most of us can write better than these imbeciles. Anyone got better ideas on how to end this drama?

  16. Arrow “Due Process”

    That was a turning point. Both for me as a viewer, and the series as a continuing franchise. I’m calling it: The series is ruined. The series is unsalvageable. The series is now terrible, and can never improve. For all of its various faults in the previous seasons, nobody has done more to damage the franchise than Beth Schwartz. As far as showrunners go, in the future she will be described in the same disgusted tones fandom has for Marti Noxon and Brannon Braga.

    I cannot overstate how bad the flashforwards are for the show. I was afraid they would box things in. It’s far worse than that. Far, FAR worse. They make the scenes in the present irrelevant. And considering those scenes run parallel with three different spin-offs, that is pretty much the worst place for any franchise to put their flagship show. The flashforwards mean Elseworlds has no stakes. They definitely fixed it. And every single other thing on Arrow is similarly meaningless. Aside from learning Schwartz is determined to ruin the heart and soul of the show in Felicity Smoak, now every scene set in the present is something to dread.

    The series aped Lost’s most popular turning point by missing why it was popular in the first place. On Lost, we WANTED to see the characters get to those specific flashforwards. We LIKED the ambiguous futures for the characters, good and bad, because the scenarios were so juicy. This is different. If all of the characters lost their souls or their lives, everything they do in the present doesn’t matter. We aren’t looking forward to this. We are dreading it.

    Do you know the absolute worst thing? I think the series is now worse than Gotham. And I realize what a statement that is. But the nature of Gotham is that we are looking to the future for the way Batman is going to fix things. Here we are looking forward to Green Arrow failing his city, and every single character he ever cared about. Am I nuts for instantly seeing how wrong this is to do not only to the characters and the other shows in franchise, but the viewer itself? Was there no-one at DC smart enough to see how damaging using these kinds of flashfowards would be for the CW Network’s most important set of shows? And the thing that bothers me most is that nobody would even have to be particularly smart to put the kibosh on this storyline. What I just stated was common sense. A lot of times on a DVD commentary, a show creator will describe a juicy plot they abandoned because they realized as they were putting it together that it hurt something about the show. Every single TV series has one or two of those potential horror stories. But the thing they each had in common was that there was a person involved in the production on some level, big or small, who pointed out why it wouldn’t work. Why it would ruin the series, and destroy the viewer’s faith in it. And this is such a no-brainer of a bad plot idea, it is alarming nobody thought to immediately shoot it down.

    I’m just gobsmacked right now, and cannot wrap my head around the show destroying itself without having any clear gameplan. I am not happy about this at all. And frankly, were I the showrunners for The Flash, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow I’d be furious too. 0.

  17. Positive:

    Diaz gets caught, but we know this may not last more than a week.

    Negative:

    Ollie still doesn’t trust E2 Laurel, even though she’s trying to make it up to E1 Laurel’s late father by carrying on his legacy. Get over yourself, Ollie.

    In the middle:

    Fone Bone mentioned Ollie’s only friend in prison is named Stanley, and no one even thinks to make reference to Laurel & Hardy with these two? The mind boggles.

    I’d like them to do a whole season without flashbacks and flash forwards.

  18. Can someone tell me again, why Diaz is giving Ollie and the team more trouble than Ras al Ghoul and Damien Darkh, and how he’s got everyone in his pocket? Is he really rich?
    Is this the worse case of Plot Armor ever?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. Arrow “The Slabside Redemption”

    That was full stop awesome. I do not need to equivocate or “Yeah, but” this specific review. All of my current problems with this show were irrelevant during this episode. It was full-stop amazing.

    I am not all about the fight scenes on this show, but I think this was SO good. It’s everything everyone raves about the Daredevil fights scenes. But the Daredevil fights scenes don’t matter to me at all. As well-boarded and choreographed as Daredevil’s occasional one-shot fight scenes are, they don’t ultimately matter. He’s always fighting nameless thugs in those scenes. Arrow versus Diaz is actually personal. And his isn’t just about surviving. It’s also about saving the live of the prison guards, and eventually the other prisoners. Add to that that this is the first step on Bronze Tiger’s redemption path, and it’s like the scene was just as action packed as a Daredevil fight, but with actual emotional stakes I was invested in. That was phenomenal. And honestly, if more fight scenes were like that, I’d be more about the fight scenes than I am. But I will recognize and enjoy what a rare gift this episode was for ANY superhero or genre show. It was amazing.

    And how awesome was that last scene of the kiss between Oliver and Felicity as the camera pulled away to reveal the prison was on an island? I don’t know how Stanley expected to escape from that, but I doubt he died because we will not be that lucky.

    He turned out to be a far more evil and worse person than I ever suspected. And he GOT Oliver good at one point in the episode, so Ollie has no choice but to humor his delusions, while he’s tied up. But he’s a monster.

    They have been showing some nuance for Brick these past few weeks (and Turner notes things are not black and white in here) but in the end, Brick is a monster too. He cannot help himself.

    I love that before Oliver locks Diaz in the cell, he takes the ripped photo for himself, and the book to give to Turner. The guy who plays the prison guard Oliver saved plays the lovable character of ex-vampire Julius on Van Helsing, and I love that by the end of the episode he is exactly as grateful to not only Oliver, but to Turner, as he should be. It felt like a turning point, and that Oliver left at least two people in that prison better than he found them. And I freaking love that.

    The series is easier to love when there are no flashforwards in the episode. Another reason I resent them.

    Kirk Acevedo has a bad rap for overacting on this show, but I tend to like Diaz’s over-the-top antics. And I found his scene on the phone in the visitor’s room quite personal and riveting. That being said, he probably over-emoted at several points in the episode past where he should have. It was an extreme episode and situation, so I get why he was so frayed, but I hope this isn’t the new normal for Acevedo and Diaz. It didn’t quite work for me, for the first time ever.

    Speaking of emoting, I regret that Oliver is going to lose the full beard. Because it covers he face, Stephen Amell has taken extra care to emote with his eyes in an amazing way that he doesn’t do when the rest of his expressions are easier to read with less facial hair. It’s the same thing with Tom Hanks, and Amell does the same kind of nuances Hanks did in Cast Away. For some reason, after seeing that, I think the most perfect movie ever made (The Shawshank Redemption) would have been even MORE perfect had Tim Robbins had a full beard when he escaped. But the beard makes Amell’s eyes sad, and world-weary, and even gives his face a surprising amount of innocence. And I’m going to miss that.

    I cannot say enough great things about this episode. The best episode the show has done in years. *****.

  20. So Oliver is working with SCPD publicly as Green Arrow…. shrug… okay.

    Robert had another daughter from another lady? Oh come one!!! I guess she’s an adaptation of Emiko Queen from the comics.

    And I guess this Ninth Circle will be the real big bad, not Diaz and the Longbow Hunters, maybe even past this season if it’s renewed. And they are from the comics, circa 2016.

  21. Arrow “Unmasked”

    Yeah, I could get used to Oliver working for the police.

    The stuff with Felicity was grating, and the flashforwards were still ill-advised (if not as terrible as most weeks). I also don’t see anything good coming from Dig working with Diaz.

    Fuller is an idiot. Did he really think he could take out the Green Arrow with hired goons? Moron.

    Interesting that the new Green Arrow is Oliver’s half sister. Why have we never heard of her before this? Hmmm.

    Same Elseworlds tease as Supergirl.

    Not terrible, which is the best I can hope for with an episode with flashforwards. ***1/2.

  22. Interesting that the new Green Arrow is Oliver’s half sister. Why have we never heard of her before this? Hmmm.

    The cynic in me says it’s because of bad writing and get ready for a retcon. It’d be funny if Team Arrow speculates it’s because Barry or the Legends did something stupid again.

    But she could fight Diaz, she had an arsenal in her hideout, she has a list – but is she older than Oliver or between him and Thea in age? I think we already know Robert cheated on Moira several times from mentions in season 1 I think and well, Isabel Rochev. Did Robert entrust the List plan to both her and Oliver as a failsafe in case one failed? For that matter, I don’t they ever explained how Robert knew about using ghost ink for it since it was a method the League of Assassins used, too.

  23. December 5th:

    It dragged on? Got boring?

    Yes on both counts. Also, it caused a bit of a conflict with my religious beliefs, and the inconsistencies in the artwork did not help.

    December 7th:

    Arrow “Unmasked”

    Yeah, I could get used to Oliver working for the police.

    The stuff with Felicity was grating, and the flashforwards were still ill-advised (if not as terrible as most weeks). I also don’t see anything good coming from Dig working with Diaz.

    Fuller is an idiot. Did he really think he could take out the Green Arrow with hired goons? Moron.

    Interesting that the new Green Arrow is Oliver’s half sister. Why have we never heard of her before this? Hmmm.

    Same Elseworlds tease as Supergirl.

    Not terrible, which is the best I can hope for with an episode with flashforwards. ***1/2.

    Based on what I know from the books, Emiko, aka Red Arrow in said books, is younger than Ollie, and I would guess she would be about Thea’s age or slightly younger.

    Dig & Lyla turning to Diaz for help with the Dante case will serve as an excuse to keep the boring villain around the rest of the season. Diggle & Ollie at odds again? Count on it. Diaz will stab ARGUS in their collective back. The writers are that incompetent.

    Elseworlds looks like it has a similar plot to last year’s Crisis on Earth-X, but with fewer players, and one less chapter. Someone on Reddit invoked "Freaky Friday" to describe Ollie & Barry’s body switch. The villain, though, doesn’t move the meter for me. Looks dumb.

    Mod Note: Double Post merged.

  24. Continued from The Flash, to be concluded on Supergirl! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    "Elseworlds, Part 2"
    Monday, December 10, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    With Oliver and Barry still stuck in the other’s bodies, the two get a lead on John Deegan and head to Gotham City with Supergirl to figure out why their reality has changed.

  25. Hilarious touch to do the Intro with Barry as Green Arrow.

    Oh the Batman easter eggs… Vesper Fairchild – one of Bruce’s exes, Batsignal, Gotham seems to be in a nigh-No Man’s Land situation, streets named after Nolan and Burton, Wayne building font/logo looks like the Dark Knight one, Kate alludes to Lucius, ’66 Shakespeare bust, another reference to Earth-38 Batman, references to Cobblepot, Isley, Nigma, Karlo, (and Guggenheim), Alfred, Dark Knight Rises Bane mask, Hugo Strange glasses, Riddler cane, Penguin umbrellia, Scarecrow fear toxin, Fries, Nora, Batmobile, World’s Finest nod.

    Then more nods to the Crisis on Infinite Earths/event on the newspaper from Flash season 1, Eobard and Merlyn, Jay Garrick Flash Earth-90 alluding to the long running fan theory that Diggle was going to be the CW version of John Stewart, Trigger Twins, Superman Prime.

    Didn’t care about the return of Deathstroke II nor the Fear Toxin induced fight (felt old hat at this point). It was a tad disappointing that Batwoman didn’t really have that much action scene screentime. I suppose the missing Batman will be a ongoing subplot for the proposed Batwoman show if it gets the greenlight — oddly like the X-Men and Hellfire Club being MIA on The Gifted.

  26. The modern day Trigger Twins were a pair of outlaws who appeared in Batman a ways back.

    Deegan is otherwise Dr. Destiny, whose gimmick in the books is that he is unable to sleep or something. it’s been a long while. His dreams warp reality.

    Interesting that they can use Nora Fries, but not Mr. Freeze. For those scoring at home, Cassandra Jean Amell is Mrs. Stephen Amell.

    We could have gone the whole show without Dullsville Diaz, but no.

    Interesting to see how this finishes.

  27. Arrow “Elseworlds: Part Two”

    The switched identities thing really got confusing at various points. Still, I laughed when Oliver essentially framed the Flash for stealing police evidence. There is a lot of fun crap Oliver can do without any consequences in this particular scenario.

    It was really interesting that Scarecrow’s fear toxic unleashed the reverse fears for Barry and Oliver, which was kind of amazing. Barry talks about Oliver’s burden, but I think deep down, Barry has always known that. Lord knows Oliver won’t shut up about it. But I think what Oliver learned about Barry was truly surprising. It’s one thing to know that Barry’s mother was murdered, it’s quite another to learn that his arch-enemy is the one who killed her, and Barry has to listen to those kinds of taunts whenever he faces him. That’s a lot worse than Oliver has with his rogues.

    I am immediately on-board a Batwoman series. And it can fit using the conceit that Batman’s reality is debatable to many people. People actually know what the Batmobile is, but that could just be GCPD hype and part of the hoax. This way it’s fits that Oliver ISN’T actually the first vigilante in the Arrowverse. But he’s the first confirmed one, even though Batman has been around longer than him.

    I think the Batman related thing that REALLY frustrated me was Kate revealing the password was “Alfred”. It’s a nice moment for the fans, but it is literally the worst password Bruce Wayne could EVER have conceived. It would be pretty much everyone’s first guess whether they knew he was Batman or not. Passwords are supposed to be something only the person who makes them can guess. This is why tech geniuses and the like never use passwords with personal connections to themselves. They either use random numbers or out of context random words that nobody could ever guess. If the World’s Greatest Detective is really that stupid and sloppy, the Batcomputer is gonna get hacked like THAT.

    I want to know how 1990 Flash knows John Diggle. Is he John Stewart on a future season of the 1990 show? Him disappearing when he did was especially frustrating while the question lingered.

    I am a little annoyed at Felicity. After hearing Caitlin’s explanations about WHY Oliver didn’t tell her about the body swap, I would have totally accepted that were I her. And she talks about how it’s just another excuse and Oliver always has one of those. What gets me about her saying that is that THIS season at least, the marriage problems are on her. Oliver has been pretty open and understanding this season, which is quite a departure for him and I don’t really feel like she is the half of the couple who gets to complain about the other keeping secrets and not trusting them. Am I nuts for thinking that? What I’m saying is that as of this season Felicity Smoak no longer has the high ground with Oliver. It feels completely wrong that she’s trying to act like she does. Oliver’s speech was nice and all, but as far as I’m concerned, she should have made it to HIM.

    I am amused that while it’s clear that Arrow is going to have a new weekly series introduction with Oliver out of prison, that the producers were forced to put Barry in it for the crossover before we could actually see what it was and pick out the differences. Which tells me Oliver stayed in prison one episode too long.

    Not as great as the first part but the cliffhanger was definitely better. ****1/2.

  28. Batman leaving Gotham isn’t new.
    He went missing in the BIRDS OF PREY Series also.

    Kara violated Batwoman by using her X-Ray vision on her. ;)
    I did like Batwoman landing on the van and capturing those inmates.

    That photo of Supergirl, Barry, Oliver, and Earth 90 Flash had almost every one excited.
    And that scene was a let down.
    Once again John Wesley Shipp gets short changed in an action scene. :(

  29. Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    "My Name is Emiko Queen"
    Monday, January 21, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    Oliver is ready to get back to work with the SCPD and to focus on his marriage with Felicity. However, when Dinah tasks Oliver with tracking the new Green Arrow things take a surprising turn. Meanwhile, Diggle and Lyla must answer to ARGUS about Diaz.

  30. Arrow "My Name Is Emiko Queen"

    For the record, both of Oliver’s parents were extremely sucky people. But as mad as Oliver is at his father, I think why Moira did was far, far worse. I do not see why he seems to be giving her a free pass for that. Robert would have posthumously provided for Emiko except that vindictive witch hid his will. There is very little about Moira Queen that can be defended, and what is ironic about her particular brand of conniving evil is that we seem to learn about the worst of it years later after it has already done so much damage. It was that way with William too.

    Present stuff: Good. Future stuff: suck.

    Rene is like the stupidest and corniest mayor ever. His speeches are outright laughable, and his hair is almost as bad as Trump’s. Is that who they are satirizing? Because I don’t like the implications if they are.

    I love that Rene tells Emiko that the entire thing was his daughter’s idea. Who can argue with Peanut?

    I dislike the idea of recruiting Diaz for the Suicide Squad. Diaz is one of those villains like the Joker who should not be purposefully let out of prison for any reason. They are far too dangerous to other people. Yeah, Diaz could get his head exploded. But who knows which innocent person he’d kill before the bomb was triggered. Not a smart idea. A better idea would simply be that John was lying to him about that. And if he was, and Diaz was dumb enough to believe him, he deserved what he got. But I guess the show got the Suicide Squad rights back, and wanted to set it back up as soon as possible. By starting out with the stupidest possible recruit.

    The future stuff is really dragging the show down. I’m interested in Emiko and their story, and how Felicity brings Oliver to her by calling her one of his father’s wrongs he promised to right. But the future is sucking all of the air out of the room, and making the entire series, and the rest of the Arrowverse set in the present, completely irrelevant. Beth Schwartz being made showrunner was the worst thing to ever happen to this show. Luckily outside of the future stuff, this episode wasn’t otherwise terrible. ***.

  31. My take:

    Future Rene and that wig aren’t as bad as you’d think. However, going down the rabbit hole of separating the Glades from Star City sounds all wrong. Bad enough Supergirl has devolved into one ongoing anti-Trump commentary, we don’t need the same thing from Arrow. If this keeps up, we’re bound to see the same thing across the board, and we don’t need that.

    I still don’t like these flash-forward segments, as they actually detract from the main story, leaving the viewers to figure out where they’re going with this. You have Marc Guggenheim, a lawyer-turned-comics/TV writer, moving to a consulting position, and new EP Beth Schwartz comes off as having little regard for what this show is really all about. Comes across as a CW network drone, as all they’re interested in is artificial soap opera drama. Under Schwartz, the writers have learned nothing from their mistakes.

  32. Guggenheim was a lawyer? You’d never know it considering how crap all of the trials in the Arrowverse are.

    Yep. Gave up his law practice to get into the comics business. Found that out 9 months ago when he was in town for a speaking engagement in Albany. The fact that trials on the shows don’t play out correctly can be blamed on the writers looking to take shortcuts in order to speed the stories along.

  33. Arrow "Past Sins"

    Aaaah, Arrow. It’s the little things that drive me crazy.

    Put aside the fact that the show destroyed itself with the flashforwards this year, and will never actually be good again. There are no flashforwards in this otherwise enjoyable episode. It’s just that there are so many little details the show gets absolutely wrong that it’s almost comical. To be blunt, Supergirl and The Flash have these kinds of problems too, but people remark upon how dumb they are. For some reason, because Arrow used to pass for decent, and is dark and brooding, it is not thought of as dumb as those two shows, when in reality it’s usually dumber.

    I was at a loss at the moment of the tech person talking about those ripped up scraps of paper meaning nothing by themselves, but when you put them together, like say, a freaking torn up piece of paper, you can actually read the paper with the right answer. They want me to be impressed that they solved a jigsaw puzzle with seven pieces. Maybe if the SCPD was made up of preschoolers they’d get a gold star. As of now, this is nothing to brag about. I was like "The writers can’t honestly think that’s impressive." I say this without hyperbole. This is exactly the kind of thing you see on Power Rangers, and is why that show is a universal punchline. And this show is actually exactly as dumb as that.

    And the idea that Oliver Queen’s approval rating dropped 30 points in a single day is ridiculous. Whoever wrote this episode, I just want to lock them in a room with Nate Silver for a good 20 minutes so that guy can totally kick their ass. That is not how polling trends work and never was. Again, it’s the little things that make this show seem totally phony and badly written.

    To be honest, there are actually a few things in the episode to recommend. I figured out the VR thing after Curtis was murdered, but that didn’t stop it from being a great act break anyways. You knew they’d get out of it, but until the show came back from commercial you weren’t actually positive how. I also love the idea that Curtis actually found a way to make the Suicide Squad moot and Argus is STILL dumb enough to keep going with it.

    I also really love the notion that this Laurel’s last words before her father died were that she hated him. That is SO Laurel Lance. Believe it or not, not everyone talks to people or their parents that way, and one of the most memorable things about Laurel to me, before they built up the character’s legacy after she died, is that she was an irredeemably nasty person, who would say the most horrific and disgusting things to people who cared about her whenever they displeased her. Thea had a similar thing going, but Thea is a sociopath who understands perfectly well what she is doing. She was a dirtbag, but a self-aware dirtbag, who knew what she was saying and doing was wrong and didn’t care. Laurel actually believed her bile was righteous, and was always puzzled why no-one ever loved her for it. It got so bad that it was pretty clear that all of the other characters were absolutely sick of her by the end. Everyone acting in hindsight like she was a beloved hero, daughter, and friend is a total retcon. Until she died nobody could even stand her. I love the idea that there is a Universe out there where Laurel had one of her Sweet 16 snits and her father didn’t get to hear her disingenuously take it back, and pat her on the head, and forgive her with a heavy sigh.

    Do you know what I love best about her telling Felicity all this? Felicity is back to being The Sage (of which she has not been this season) and she says something doubly insightful. She not only correctly points out it wasn’t Laurel’s fault he died, but that Laurel should have told somebody else about this sooner, so they could have told her this true thing years ago. This does not excuse what Laurel said to Quentin before he died. But it probably is narcissistic for her to believe that particular outburst meant more to him than it did. He probably died instantly and before he even realized it. He didn’t say before the car hit "Oh my God, I’m about to die and my daughter hates me and I’ll never win her back-!" / SMOOSH! That’s not how car crashes work. And maybe somebody could have pointed that out to her earlier too.

    I think the biggest problem of the episode is that the viewer knew the problem before the characters did. And the problem wasn’t that the security guard’s son was going to go on a rampage when Oliver lied on TV about his father dying a hero. It’s that the fact that he refuses to contradict that notion on television means that Emiko is 100% right to believe he is as unethical as his father was, and nothing has changed. He talks about wanting to turn over a new leaf and be given a second chance, but only the audience is made aware of why that’s so hollow. You don’t need the vengeful son getting back at his father’s murder to know that Oliver is doing very wrong by the sister he is hoping will be in his life by publicly pretending the man who hurt her and her family is actually a hero. Whether the guard had a vengeful son or not is actually besides the point.

    This show. I think people would be able to dismiss me as a nitpicking crank much easier if this show wasn’t giving me such easy ammo week after week. Most internet trolls who bash shows I love bash the shows for b.s. nonsense reasons. Every single week Arrow gives me all the evidence and receipts I would ever need to say the show sucks. A lot of trolls REALLY have to reach to bash otherwise popular stuff. Arrow makes me a critic and not troll, and does so quite easily, thank you very much. **1/2.

  34. Seems they ret-conned the origin to have a plot for this week. Meh. Is there a psychiatric hospital in Star City for Sam Hackett?

    Because people expect the Ghost Initiative to be code for Suicide Squad, I think having Curtis develop a VR simulation to replace the explosive devices is a good step. Now, if they could just keep Diaz muzzled for the rest of the season…….

    Laurel is being stalked, but it seems as though that problem’s not over yet………

  35. It’s that the fact that he refuses to contradict that notion on television means that Emiko is 100% right to believe he is as unethical as his father was, and nothing has changed.

    Yeah but Emiko is just as unethical since shes currently on a world tour of death to get revenge for her mother. Seems like its a little to late in the game for her to be that self righteous.

    Speaking of Emiko, Im not sure I understand what they want to do with her? Her and Ollie’s plot seemed wholly unnecessary given that they could of just as easily ended last weeks episode with her being totally welcoming of him and literally nothing would have changed by the end of this episode.

    Honestly same with Ollie. His conceding that his daddy was a piece of crap and him accepting responsibility for keeping Hacketts death from his son didn’t really do anything for his character arc. At this point in season 7, Ollie is good person, who’s learned from his mistakes. I don’t honestly know how much more he can grow from where he’s at. That scene at the police station had almost zero weight to it because it came as no shock that Ollie would accept that he messed up. Its like (well in a 26 episode series I guess they are) there just killing time till that final stretch of episodes.

    I wish Flash and Arrow would take the Legends route and only have like 15-16 episodes

  36. Speaking of Emiko, Im not sure I understand what they want to do with her? Her and Ollie’s plot seemed wholly unnecessary given that they could of just as easily ended last weeks episode with her being totally welcoming of him and literally nothing would have changed by the end of this episode.

    Probably just a contrived writer’s room idea about Ollie dealing with someone that’s S1 Ollie. And they’ll probably tie to the Dante plot.

  37. Arrow 150! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    "Emerald Archer"
    Monday, February 4, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    The 150th episode of “Arrow” showcases a documentary entitled “The Hood and the rise of vigilantism” starring Oliver Queen, Felicity Smoak, and the rest of Team Arrow.

  38. Glad to see Sin and Ragman in the doc. Been wondering about the former, just vanished from the show. And even referenced Huntress. Curtis’ "Suit up… they’re already suited up" in the doc and their faces was hilarious.

    Huhn, so Maya is actually Mia Dearden I guess and now Connor Hawke is in the mix.

  39. Arrow "Emerald Archer"

    Not too great, not too bad. Ultimately it gets a passing grade even if some things made me slightly unhappy.

    I kind of think I might have even been willing to really like the episode were it not for the sour future ending. I’ve mentioned the flashforwards pretty much destroyed the show before? It’s a pretty easily proven fact if I’m enjoying something that is 45 minutes long, only to be pissed off in the last two. That’s just plain, simple math right there.

    I think the thing I really liked about the episode was getting some much needed updates to characters the series just up and forget. If this is the last we ever see of Sin I’m fine with it. This is an update we should have gotten seasons ago, that she’s okay and out there. I similarly liked the idea that Ragman got his powers back, and is still out there, even if the idea that the serial killer fanboy makes his fate unclear. For the record, can I just say how much the series sucks for doing that? It’s not like they’ll ever clarify it down the road.

    And what is Huntress’s mask doing there anyways? In this continuity, she is a full-fledged villain.

    But I especially love that Paul Blackthorne and Willa Holland were gracious enough to come back to film new segments for the milestone episode. Quentin Lance is irreplaceable on the show, and it hurts now as much for his absence as the flashforwards, but him being willing to come back for special occasions at least means his parting from the show was amicable. Frankly, I never expected to see Willa Holland on this show ever again. She has been unhappy here for years, and not afraid to take the shots at DC’s terrible decisions regarding this franchise, that the producers themselves would be taking if they any sense or guts. I personally hate Thea Queen. But Holland is probably the most astute actor on this show, and the only one willing to call b.s. on it when it needs it. Whatever else the producers think of her for that, her being gone is a loss for that reason, whether Thea sucks or not. I’m glad she hasn’t completely cast things aside either.

    I have a feeling Rene would holster his gun if he had the slightest inkling William was gay. Rene is a moron.

    I would have liked to have seen an entire episode done in the documentary format. It would have been fresh and daring, and I think totally doable. It’s just… it’s the milestone episode. We have to have private scenes with William, and process him coming back, as well as solo scenes for Emiko. I would have preferred they attempted this on a non-anniversary episode, although I will concede they might not have been able to get back the guest stars they did.

    Why isn’t the Mayor being called upon to resign? I guess it’s nice and all that she’s softening on vigilantes, and is deputizing Team Arrow, but what happened at that assembly was the exact thing Oliver and Dinah warned her about in no uncertain terms. This is the kind of blunder that falls greater administrations than hers. Why is nobody on Team Arrow leaking the deets of this disaster to try and push her out? I always say the courtroom stuff on this show sucks. Well, truthfully, the politics ain’t so hot either.

    No reason whatsoever for Barry Allen to be interviewed for the doc. In fact, considering his alter ego, he should have declined even if they asked. But in real life they wouldn’t.

    Good to see some familiar faces again though. ***1/2.

  40. HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, 150 episodes. WOW!
    Seems a waste of money to hire Kelsey Grammer and only give him a couple of lines.
    Good to see the old familiar faces of Sin, Ragman, and Captain Lance.
    Actress playing young Zoe has a radiant smile.
    Too bad they couldn’t find a scene for Audrey Marie Anderson to appear in.

    I like the episode, ‘B’.

  41. I liked that they took a risk with a documentary styled episode. It even started off great with the WB animation opening ( i even had to hit pause and wonder if i got the right show) but everything after that was….ugh.

    Like there was just too many scenes that took me out of the episode because of the cameras following them around. Almost every other scene it was like, well there gonna cut that, and that, and that and theres no way they’re keep that culminating with "okay well there’s no way they’ll reveal Emiko’s face".

    Also….how did they get a hold of Sara Lance and did they mention that her sister is alive, or like, where shes been the last four years"? How far back did this idea for the director go because it looks like it was just as recent as Diaz being incarcerated to all the way in the middle of season 3? Speaking of Diaz…how did they get an interview when hes being detained in an Argus black site, and why include him? And why is Barry even there (even worse, I miss that version of goofy Barry Allen). By the middle of the episode I figured theres no way they’ll let this documentary see the light of day given how much its revealed. I mean don’t get me wrong, I typically leave my suspension of disbelief at the door with this show but the documentary style creates a new set of rules and therefore different expectations. But hey, at least they tried something new.

  42. The brief scene with Diaz was probably before he left Slabside.

    Anyone catch the insider references (Dr. Schwartz? The documentary director is named Pedowicz?)?

    Didn’t need the sudden flash forward at the end of the show. Couldn’t we go without that for a 2nd week?

  43. Oh come on! No more Curtis?!

    William, could care less. It doesn’t matter. If he stayed with Oliver, constant danger. If he moves in with the grandparents, bad guys will track him down and kill them and kidnap him or be in constant danger because they live in superpowerville — CENTRAL CITY!

    Mia is Felicity’s daughter. Whatever.

  44. Arrow "Star City Slayer"

    I don’t know the name of the actor who plays Stanley but he was super scary and crazy this episode. Great performance.

    I am a little less annoyed with the flashforwards hearing that Felicity may still be alive and Mia is her and Oliver’s daughter. But the show is still on thin ice with me because of them.

    The fight scene with Zoe and William tied up in chairs was great. That has got to be the worst position to be in during that much violence and it struck me as both terrifying and funny at the same time.

    Has Echo Kellum really left the show?

    Here is something that annoyed me. I was a little alarmed how dead-set Oliver was at first with William living with his grandparents. My initial reaction to learning they were still alive and mobile is "This is what should have happened all along." Granted, I don’t know how feasible it would have been when the family needed witness protection from Diaz, but once that situation settled, that should have been the place he went next instead of being forced to stay in Boarding School. The one thing I dislike about the grandparents is how rude they are to Oliver and Felicity. If they weren’t, I’d have no problem with the idea. But they strike me as the kind of people who would turn William against his father and stepmom out of of spite. First good thing about the flashforwards is that we learn that doesn’t actually happen.

    Flashforward speculation. It strikes me that these flashforwards may not box the show in the way I feared. Why? Because next year is Crisis On Infinite Earths. If things go REALLY bad, and the fans wind up hating the arc (I have already made clear that I do) they can retcon it with no problems. But that’s still a season away. I don’t look forward to them until then.

    Good week. Even the flashforwards. ****.

  45. Arrow "Emerald Archer"

    No reason whatsoever for Barry Allen to be interviewed for the doc. In fact, considering his alter ego, he should have declined even if they asked. But in real life they wouldn’t.

    I chalk it up to returning to your roots, since Barry debuted in season 2.

    Two weeks worth of stuff to talk about.

    The documentary angle would’ve worked better if:

    1. You don’t have a camera crew following Ollie, Dinah, et al around town.

    2. You can say the doc was already made, and is being screened for the body of the show, which would justify the flash forward at the end and Kelsey Grammer’s voice-over guest appearance.

    As it was, the creative staff opted to tie it to this week’s show, and the surprisingly one-&-done closing of Stanley Dover’s character arc. Having read Kevin Smith’s Star City Slayer arc in the books a few years back, I’d expected better. Like stringing it out an extra couple of weeks. Instead, Beth co-writes this episode, forgetting the depth in Stanley’s character that had been established in the first half of the season.

    Mia Smoak (Dearden in the books) is William’s half-sister, technically, but I am not digging her attitude. In the comics, Mia had HIV, don’t know if that’s the case here.

    Let’s remember that the flash-forwards, despite what Beth tells the fan press, represent one possible future instead of a definitive one. "Days of Future Past", this isn’t, even if it aspires to be.

  46. Kinda odd we’re hearing news of the actors who play techies taking leave from the CW shows. Winn’s return pushed back on Supergirl, Valdes is leaving Flash, now Kellum.

    I’d say its more coincidental than odd. Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if we see even more departures in the coming seasons (I legit expect Amell to leave at some point after next season).

    Admittedly tho, these departures basically amount to trimming the fat. I love Carlos as Vibe but the Flash cast has ballooned and much like Echo on Arrow, their skill set is redundant. I bet both are there for crisis on infinite earths.

  47. Apparantely since Curtis toook the DC job. I read Kellum wants to spend more time with his family. Kinda odd we’re hearing news of the actors who play techies taking leave from the CW shows. Winn’s return pushed back on Supergirl, Valdes is leaving Flash, now Kellum.

    I’d say its more coincidental than odd. Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if we see even more departures in the coming seasons (I legit expect Amell to leave at some point after next season).

    Admittedly tho, these departures basically amount to trimming the fat. I love Carlos as Vibe but the Flash cast has ballooned and much like Echo on Arrow, their skill set is redundant. I bet both are there for crisis on infinite earths.

  48. Arrow "Brothers And Sisters"

    On the surface I didn’t see too much wrong with the episode. And yet I was very unhappy by the end of it, which totally confuses me. I (should at least) only feel that way about the bad episodes. Have I outgrown this show? Or am I simply being unfair at this point? The second thing is the more likely thing, and the thing that bothers me more, but I cannot really help how I feel, and I haven’t given a positive review for something I didn’t actually like for awhile now. I’m no longer to go along to get along reviewer. Best I can do this week is figure out why I’m unsatisfied, and try to detail these reasons without refusing to give the show the benefit of the doubt.

    Let us begin.

    First problem is Dante, and the entire concept of Dante. I alternate between tolerating and liking the concept of Diaz. Season 6 was pretty ballsy to make the Big Bad of the season a nonsuperpowered guy we never heard of before, who usually uses his real name. And the conceit was that supposedly this character, who is the least flashy and memorable Ultimate Evil of all, is actually in reality the worst and most difficult to defeat. God bless Season 6, because I half-believed that nonsense premise myself. Partly due to Kirk Acevedo’s over the top and scary performance, and partly due to how much utter loathing Emily Bett Rickards was able to get across about him as Felicity. I took him as a threat because he wigged her out like no other character. But I stretched my suspension of disbelief to give Diaz the benefit of the doubt for half a season. That’s actually not an unfair ask of me for the show. Not really. I could do that for Diaz.

    The problem is the show being crazy enough to think I’d do the exact same thing for Dante. That benefit of the doubt, which was not actually betrayed with Diaz, at least not last season, is something I’d only give the show once, and only about one single character with that specific premise. The show cannot do the exact thing and say, "Oh, well THIS guy is so bad, Diaz fears him, so watch out." Especially if we’re just meeting him this episode. That’s not fair. And his connection to Emiko seems to be adding a complication to a season that I already feel is overcomplicated due to the flashforwards. I left the episode feeling unhappy that the show thinks I’d put up with that exact questionable plot twist twice.

    Do you know what gets me? I am one of the only Arrow fans I’ve seen online who actually put up with Diaz at all. Why on Earth after the negative reception the character received from the fans last year would the writers believe it was in the show’s best interest to deliver another character exactly like him in the following season? And this is spoken as a rare Arrow fan who sometimes liked the concept. I can’t imagine what someone who thinks Acevedo is talentless and hammy, and the show is laying it on thick with the threat the character represents must think.

    The future stuff was both interesting and annoying. The family drama at the beginning made me cringe on every level you can think of, and shows why the show is often badly written. But it had a couple of cool concepts. The idea of Felicity using obsolescence as an encryption code is outright clever. And I hate to break it to the dumb future characters. But the most likely scenario about the death of the witness and the coroner is NOT that somebody faked Felictiy’s death, kidnapped her, and killed anyone who could prove different. The most likely scenario is that Felicity faked her OWN death, and killed those people herself for the same reason. Occam’s Razor says that this conspiracy her kids are imagining is a lot smaller than they think.

    For the record, Oliver sucks. It’s good the show pointed out how uncool it was he took his sister’s mission out of her hands, but I don’t really think the show landed on why he did it. I understood it perfectly, but since Oliver didn’t, I don’t think the lesson was actually learned. Oliver did what he did because he’s a clueless man, who wants to fix the women in his life’s problems, without being asked. He took over driving the car and refuses to ask for directions. He only did something that foolish because he possesses a penis. That’s the only reason. Which is why it bothers me that Rene’s the one to tell him how uncool it was. Because I don’t think Rene understood the actual reason he did it. It’s nice that Rene is a sensitive enough guy to recognize it was wrong. But I would think Felicity or Emiko themselves could have correctly pointed out the inherent sexism built into his actions.

    The show didn’t outright say it in this episode, but both the scene of Oliver trying and failing to call William, and William in the future believing Oliver and Felicity never called him again, or wanted him, tells me pretty clearly that William’s grandparents absolutely suck. And considering he’s half-Queen, that makes all four of his grandparents utter monsters. It would be a wonder if a kid with blood that dirty would ever come out healthy.

    Speaking of the Queens, I found it very unlikely Oliver talking about how his parents instilled in him the value of family would be the thing to convince Emiko. Because Emiko WAS their family, and they disowned her. If anything that should have driven her off.

    Is Diaz dead? I hope so. Kirk Acevedo is a fun bad guy, but after betraying the Suicide Squad on their first freaking mission (which I predicted weeks ago would happen) it was very clear there was really nothing left for the show to do with him. It would be better if they did kill him off just then.

    Speaking of which, I can’t believe Lilah is arguing about John taking the blame for the Suicide Squad revival. It WAS his idea, done without her permission, and done in a way that forced her hand, and she couldn’t back out of. I think it is very weird that she thinks the responsibility is actually hers and that she should fall on her sword for her dumbass husband in the first place.

    Diggle’s dumb, but he’s not all bad. When he says Dante was the mission, but Diaz was the priority, I was like, "Aww!"

    And finally we get to Emiko and Dante. And that "twist" goes back to why I’m unhappy about this episode to begin with. It’s because as a twist it’s bogus. I guarantee you, if I rewatch the season next year, this episode and that scene won’t hold up to any sort of scrutiny. They wanted to make it seem a bit ambiguous for the viewer. But you can’t do a scene like that and make it ambiguous. It won’t work.

    If Emiko is evil, and plans to betray Oliver, I can pick apart that twist. She says that Oliver finally trusts her. Well, if that was the goal, she could have reached out to him herself in the previous episodes, and not made him jump through hoops. If Emiko is evil, the scene will not play.

    If Emiko is good, and playing Dante in a sting, I can pick apart that twist. Her actress’s performance suggested she was genuinely surprised to see him, and didn’t expect to see him show up at all. If Emiko is Virtuous Xanatos, the scene will not play.

    If Emiko IS aligned with Dante, but simply doesn’t know who he is or what he’s done, I can pick apart that twist. She’s the new freaking Green Arrow. How am I supposed to be impressed with someone that dumb in hindsight? If Emiko is a patsy, the scene will not play.

    And that my friends is why unlikely betrayal scenarios are almost never satisfying in fiction, and why they never seem to hold up in hindsight. Because the writers are trying to hedge their bets, they are taking a scene that is pretty clear in what it shows us, and asking us to ignore or not think too hard about the things it IS showing us. And that’s why that trope doesn’t work when the show refuses to commit to which scenario it is, and peg down whether or not the betrayal is genuine immediately. Because they are trying to leave open the possibility of all scenarios for the viewer, they are acting like what they showed us is more up for interpretation than it is. No matter which of the three things it winds up being, that scene introducing it was badly written, unfair, and does not hold up to scrutiny.

    I think after writing all that down, I kind of get why I didn’t like this episode, even though it wasn’t bad, and I couldn’t see too many surface problems wrong with it. It’s that it felt like the concepts it introduced for the future would not actually be consistent with what this specific episode claims they were. The entire episode was made to be retconned in many various ways. And I don’t like watching storytelling like that. I love Twin Peaks, and the fact that I never get any answers. But Twin Peaks holds up because the answers I have come up with in my own head are mostly plausible and can work with what David Lynch showed me. I can work stuff out for myself. That’s actually fun. But the whole Emiko / Dante thing is something I already smell a huge narrative rat about, and that is why I didn’t enjoy an episode that didn’t actually suck. **1/2.

  49. FB-

    I’ll remind you that this whole nonsense of Emiko and Dante is parallel to Nora being gullible enough to work with Eobard Thawne on The Flash. That said, I think both arcs will end the same way.

    Is Diaz really gone? I don’t think so.

    Who threw the lighter and switched the sprinkler water with gasoline? Was it Laurel? Was it Dante or a lieutenant? I guess we’ll know in the next episode.

    Flash forwards on this show distract from the main plot. Why? Because Beth Schwartz is a worse showrunner than Marc Guggenheim was. Doesn’t know how to tie things together in such a way that it makes sense, instead expecting the Crisis adaptation in the fall to explain everything. We’re not that stupid, Beth, though I wonder about studio people like you sometimes.

  50. Bronze Tiger says Diaz is dead.
    Although he could be working with Diaz and lying to Laurel.

    Arrow Cave is back in operation. I don’t where they got money or the time to fix it?
    Alot of times I feel there is missing dialog or a scene in these CW shows because I feel I am missing something.

  51. Arrow "Training Day"

    There were a lot of things wrong with that, but my impression was still mostly favorable. The way Oliver smiled at the end of the teaser was so wonderful and infectious that I was totally willing to give the episode a TON of slack.

    I think both the SDPD AND Team Arrow did things wrong tonight. I agree with Dinah that if they are deputized, the vigilantes have to go through proper protocols, and can’t go around torturing people for confessions. Because not only do their actions have legal standing on whether or not the perp is arrested and put on trial, but they also represent the police department as a whole. On the other hand, it’s ridiculous to take away the costumes and weapon because those are the vigilantes’ entire selling points to begin with. Without them they are just regular cops, and their skills and meaning to the city are far bigger than that.

    Liked the stuff with William and Mia for once.

    Interesting we got another idea about who Conner Hawke might be. Maybe he’s John’s kid, but he could also be Bronze Tiger’s.

    Emiko didn’t deny killing Diaz, did she? I think Laurel is overestimating how mad Oliver would be in learning the truth. He’d probably thank her for taking the decision out of Felicity’s hands. Also I don’t see how trying to out Laurel as Black Siren would even work as a threat. Team Arrow already knows the truth. I suppose she could go to the SDPD, but Siren Laurel was uncommonly cunning for the past couple of seasons in that I’m pretty sure the cops aren’t even aware she existed. Unlike Emiko killing Diaz, there are no witnesses willing to come forward, and no proof Laurel was Siren.

    Dinah doing the whole "You’re under arrest thing" was painfully cheesy.

    Yeah, this episode wasn’t perfect. But I still liked it. ***1/2.

  52. Interesting we got another idea about who Conner Hawke might be. Maybe he’s John’s kid, but he could also be Bronze Tiger’s.

    Emiko didn’t deny killing Diaz, did she? I think Laurel is overestimating how mad Oliver would be in learning the truth. He’d probably thank her for taking the decision out of Felicity’s hands. Also I don’t see how trying to out Laurel as Black Siren would even work as a threat. Team Arrow already knows the truth. I suppose she could go to the SDPD, but Siren Laurel was uncommonly cunning for the past couple of seasons in that I’m pretty sure the cops aren’t even aware she existed. Unlike Emiko killing Diaz, there are no witnesses willing to come forward, and no proof Laurel was Siren.

    Didn’t Connor Hawke already refer to himself as Diggle’s adopted son in the flashforwards though? As for Emiko killing Diaz, Felicity already made peace with the idea of letting Diaz live when Emiko killed him, and up until recently Oliver was trying to get Emiko to operate within the law. And as for the Black Siren thing, I saw it more as "why would they believe a word you said after what you did to them" as opposed to "I’ll tell the whole world what you are".

  53. James Midas is the sort of high-pocketed, white collar weasel that Ollie would work on taking down by himself in the books back in the day.

    Of course there are going to be rough spots, but the way it sounded after Midas was finally pinched legit, it seems Mayor Pollard isn’t exactly on the up and up herself.

    So Emiko was the one who whacked Diaz. Did she learn about Laurel on her own, or did Dante have that intel?

    I’m starting to think everything converges at season’s end to set up the short season final year.

  54. Mm, so it’s Eden Corps all along. Eh. I guess that wasn’t just a throw away appearance of them in season 4 of the Flash but I think I missed one or two episodes of Arrow before tonight.

    That was a neat tidbit with Hawke revealing he was an agent of Knightwatch. In the comics, that was unit of the DEO comprised of armored agents. Hmm, kind of interesting if the DEO exists in Earth-1 after the appearance of Earth-1 Alex Danvers during the messed up reality in the crossover.

  55. That was a neat tidbit with Hawke revealing he was an agent of Knightwatch. In the comics, that was unit of the DEO comprised of armored agents. Hmm, kind of interesting if the DEO exists in Earth-1 after the appearance of Earth-1 Alex Danvers during the messed up reality in the crossover.

    Didn’t Supergirl imply that a DEO was being created for Earth-1 after the Dominator invasion?

    Honestly this episode was a bit of a mixed bag for me. For example, the fights Mia was in varied. When she went in to rescue Felicity, honestly it felt like she wasn’t hitting them hard enough for them to go down the way they did, while her other fight scene I had zero issues with whatsoever.

    And then there’s Felicity. This entire season Felicity had been portrayed in the flashforwards as this person who went crazy wanting to destroy the city who only recently saw the error of her ways, only for this episode to reveal that she was undercover the whole time. I don’t even have a problem with the idea of her being undercover, but I feel like it could’ve been handled better, unless I’m somehow missing something from earlier in the season.

    One small nitpick to round things out. How did Mia not notice that picture was behind the apple she was shooting at?

  56. Didn’t Supergirl imply that a DEO was being created for Earth-1 after the Dominator invasion?

    Great memory! At the end of Legends "Invasion!". Yeah, Supergirl mentioned she told President Brayden about Earth-38’s DEO and she thought it was an excellent idea.

    Honestly this episode was a bit of a mixed bag for me. For example, the fights Mia was in varied. When she went in to rescue Felicity, honestly it felt like she wasn’t hitting them hard enough for them to go down the way they did, while her other fight scene I had zero issues with whatsoever.

    Yeah, some of that seemed like the actress was slowing down and telegraphing her punches at times when Mia fought the guards upon entering the sublevel. But the fight in Dale’s office was better, imo.

  57. Arrow "Star City 2040"

    Honestly, I have been relentless in my ragging of the season because of the flashforwards, but this episode relieved a LOT of my tension about them. What annoys me is that the tension raised earlier in the season (that Felicity had turned evil and then died) wasn’t actually necessary because it wasn’t true. I suppose TV shows love misleading viewers like that, and consider it part of the rollercoaster. Consider me a viewer who doesn’t like being misled, and that I don’t think I’m being done a huge favor in hindsight just because Felicity is alive and good. I probably will not have as much problem with the future stuff as before. But the earlier part of the season still sucked for the exact same reasons I previously said it did, whether it worked out after all or not.

    My other complaint about the flashforwards is that it made the present stuff seem irrelevant. Unfortunately, that is still true, and I still think the format weakened the show greatly, even if the storyline wasn’t as bad as I feared. It’s the concept itself that did the most damage.

    Here is how Rene should have known there would be no evacuation: The plan wouldn’t have been secret if there was. That sort of thing takes a lot of time and planning, and if it were actually happening, that company would be trying to get people used to the idea as early as possible. That sort of thing is broadcast far and wide, if only for safety concerns. It is not the sort of thing done in secret. Rene is a dope.

    I loved William huggng Felicity. I just did. Screw Mia. She sucks.

    I liked that a lot, and I didn’t expect to, so I’m giving it a higher than usual grade. ****1/2.

  58. Ok, this felt like a back-door pilot for a spin-off.

    After a couple of appearances, I don’t like Kevin Dale. Another white collar weasel who needed to be taken down quickly, but lingers like a bad rash.

    I’ve a feeling Rene won’t survive 2040…..

  59. Arrow "Inheritance"

    Yeah, I was impressed by that. Emiko is definitely the right Big Bad for the season. It’s appropriate Dante works for her.

    The crazy thing is that I get why Oliver is resisting giving up on her. I will acknowledge she is probably more evil than Andy was. And Andy was a sociopath. The thing is the problem with Dig and Andy is that Andy simply got into his head and made John think he owed him more than he did. I totally feel Oliver thinking that he still has something to prove to her. And it’s still kind of true.

    Oliver telling John that him reminding him they’ve been through this before is not comforting. It’s amazing Dig thinks it is. It hurts for the precise reason Oliver thinks it hurts. Rene similarly being married to an addict before says explicitly that going through the same thing twice is no fun and makes you feel extra stupid.

    Her being behind the Queen’s Gambit is something I reject however. I thought we established that was Malcolm and Moira. That’s why the first couple of seasons resonated for me. Despite the fact that I feel more sympathy for Emiko than I ever did Malcolm or Moira, I don’t think she’s earned that place in the canon, especially at this late date. This is a retcon I am unhappy with.

    Laurel’s behavior was all over the map. Her reactions to tell Oliver the frank and honest truth about his sister shows that on some level Evil Laurel is more emotionally healthy than Good Laurel was. But she still winds up a total mess by the end which is probably true of all Laurels in all Universes.

    I love Oliver going to Emiko. Here’s an opinion: Even if he shouldn’t have trusted her and smelled the doublecross ahead of time, I think he setting the cards on the table helped Team Arrow tremendously. Now they know. It was be better if she wasn’t evil. But Oliver being direct means she doesn’t have access to the team anymore, and has to do all of the stuff she used to be able to get from Felicity and Rene on her own.

    For the record, do you know what I love? How freaking easily Felicity and Oliver found Dante. Twice! It makes me realize how ineffective John and Argus are and why the season probably only started to turn in the heroes’ favor once they were finally granted some much needed autonomy.

    I could watch Kacey Rohl on this show all day. Every other role I’ve seen for that poor woman involves her being either a victim of horrific abuse, a total sociopathic monster, or both. I didn’t realize she was able to actually smile until she popped up on this show. She is severely damaged in every other role. It’s nice to see her have fun.

    Next Time Promo Spoiler Alert: I think the show wants me to be more alarmed than I am at Laurel saying in the previews that she and Felicity aren’t friends and it was all an act. I’m not. At all. The defining thing about the original Laurel Lance to me is that she would say outrageous untrue things to hurt the people who cared about her as much as possible. And she always seemed shocked the other characters didn’t love her for it. Laurel is the character the producers created wrongly believing a person can say whatever horrible thing they want, and the audience will automatically forgive them for it. They were wrong about that. I hated the character and was glad when she died. But that also means that I will never believe that the cruelest thing Laurel could ever say to a friend isn’t simply because she’s in a bad mood, and thinks this is how a nonsociopath throws a snit. The trailer wants to me think Laurel is horrible and evil for saying that. While Laurel is and always has been horrible whether she’s evil or not. It means very little at this point if she denies Felicity’s friendship. It would be out of character if she never did.

    Do you know what bugs the crap out of me? That Laurel thinks she deserves Dinah’s forgiveness for killing Vince. Honestly, Laurel, take the fact that she isn’t currently trying to kill you and call it a win. You are entitled to nothing else.

    Still the thing that bothers me about the Vince posthumous lionization is that Vince was, you know, a freaking serial killer. People called Oliver that too, but Vince actually fit the description. I have no idea why everyone is treating him with such rose-colored glasses. Laurel’s murder of him probably wasn’t even unjust. But she’s still nuts if she thinks Dinah should love her for it.

    Speaking of horrible people, isn’t Robert just the hugest of monsters? Moira is an unforgivable monster too but she at least believes she’s doing right by her family. Robert knows he’s doing wrong and is too big of a coward to change. I think Moira is the kind of person who would blow up a city. Robert’s the kind of person who would blow up his own family. It’s 50/50 on which is the worse type of person. Because as far as the worst type of parent goes, he definitely has Moira beat there.

    Does Jamey Sheridan with no beard match up to the continuity of the pilot? Sheridan is usually clean-shaven in most of his projects, but I could have sworn he wore a full beard on the Queen’s Gambit. Oh, well. It’s not like this show ever had consistent or believable facial hair as far as Lian Yu went. For the record.

    I thought that was a pretty great episode. I didn’t much like the last two scenes but I liked everything else and think Emiko is the correct villain for the season. ****1/2.

  60. I’m not sure if someone has said this yet, but given the penchant that the writers and producers have for making this show up as they go, especially now after that Emiko twist, I think it’s a horrible idea for the show to do flashforwards. It’s way too easy to box the show in, like the fact that they never see William again, no one knows about Mia, etc. It makes it easy to screw up the continuity.

    And it removes the stakes of any character can die in relation to who’s appeared in the flash forwards. I think we’re past the point of new return for the continuity getting screwed up, heh.

  61. I’m not sure if someone has said this yet, but given the penchant that the writers and producers have for making this show up as they go, especially now after that Emiko twist, I think it’s a horrible idea for the show to do flashforwards. It’s way too easy to box the show in, like the fact that they never see William again, no one knows about Mia, etc. It makes it easy to screw up the continuity.

    I definitely said that before. Many times in fact.

  62. I think we literally have 15 episodes left of the whole show.

    Aside from the current storyline and Athena looking for the remaining Lazarus Pits to revive Malcolm, what other loose ends are there left?

    EDIT: Just read that

    Roy is going to return in present day a a few episodes from now. I’m almost expecting a hand-wavy line of "Yeah, we handled it. No more Lazarus Pits, no more Malcolm Merlyn."

    :p

  63. I don’t like the idea of ret-conning in this case. This is just lazy writing. In sharp contrast to Supergirl, which used the introduction of Lex Luthor as a means to tie up as many plot holes as possible, and did a good job in doing so, Arrow finds another way to foul things up.

    Emiko has too much hate in her heart to be redeemed, and I’ll lay good odds she was the one who planted the story on the news to discredit Laurel as a means of getting Laurel off her back. I honestly think the hate allows her to be manipulated, and I am not a fan of the 9th Circle. Hated the story arc in the books, which is why I stopped reading the just concluded series.

  64. Arrow "Lost Canary"

    Wow, I really liked that. I’ve been giving Arrow nothing but crap this season but that was a really good episode.

    I love the debate between Felicity and Dinah. I am on Felicity’s side in wanting to give Laurel the chance she desperately needed. And yet, Dinah is 100% right that everything she has done is her own decision. They cannot blame themselves for that. Laurel is a grown-ass woman and it is not expected for most people to turn to a life of crime once their lives go a little sideways. I think it was very important for me to hear the idea that people are responsible for their own actions. As long as that is voiced by Dinah, I am okay with Felicity and Sara trying to talk Laurel down.

    I miss the White Canary costume on Legends. I know the time travel means they usually have to dress in period clothes, but I really miss Sara wearing that outfit on the ship. The bad thing about the latter seasons of Legends is the lack of costumes. I can’t even recall seeing Ray Palmer in his Atom suit this season. I miss the crazy get-ups.

    Here is a question and a fault with the episode: Aren’t Oliver and Diggle technically police? Why are they leaving that Longbow Hunter tied up to escape? Shouldn’t they be taking him in to answer for his many, MANY crimes and murders? That didn’t sit right with me.

    I like Felicity asking if all of the times Sara called her cute was flirtation. Opinion: She’s overthinking it. Aside from the fact that she knew Sara was bisexual even then because of Nyssa, it doesn’t matter what your orientation is. Felicity is simply cute in the same way Barry Allen and Ray Palmer are. Flirtation has nothing to do with someone voicing that true opinion.

    I love Laurel showing up in the flashforwards at the end. This is probably the first flashforward I’ve liked if I’m being honest. I love that we don’t see Laurel in the future until she makes the choice she does in this episode. And her showing up at the end was great because it lets us know that it actually stuck. It was welcome, as was the idea that there is a whole Underground of Canaries in the future based upon what Sara, Laurel, and Dinah started. It’s an incredibly empowering message, which isn’t even lessened by most of them getting killed off. Because that’s the thing about legacies and empowerment: There will always be more. It doesn’t stop if some of the people in the movement do. It’s bigger than everyone in the movement. It’s an idea, and that not something an anti-vigilante robot can actually kill.

    Very impressed this week. Good job, producers. ****1/2.

  65. Okay, even if Laurel didn’t actually murder anyone in "Lost Canary," what about Shadow Thief? Wouldn’t Laurel be equally liable for any murders (and assaults) committed by her partner while they were operating together?

    Arrow is not the show that is going to worry about legalities at this late date. Berlanti’s understanding of how the law works has always been nonexistent.

  66. I’ll say this about this week’s episode: it’s better than The Flash’s "Girls Night Out" (wow was that one awful). Overall I though it was a decent episode. Though I will nitpick this, why did Dinah take Felicity with her to confront Laurel and Shadow Thief? Yeah she’s good with tech, but it’s a bit dangerous to take her out in the field like that.

    As for the flashforwards, they could’ve handled it better. Last we saw the flashforwards, we just saw this helmet with the statement that it was the next step in their big plan or whatever. Next, we see this thing hunting Mia and Zoe along with the confirmation that it’s already killed 10 Canaries. I feel like we could’ve gotten something to set it up better.

  67. @Road to Gotham: Was this Shadow Thief a Hawkman enemy like the original? Oh, wait. I see Hawkman, Stargirl, Catwoman, Katana, & J’onn in the background of the above picture.

    Anyway, this again felt like they could make a back-door pilot out of it for down the road, especially with the Birds of Prey movie coming next year or 2021. You could slide Felicity right in as Oracle in this context, since it sounds a little cooler than Overwatch, anyway.

    In a roundabout way, Laurel’s redemption arc is concluding. I was right about the fact that Emiko framed her for murder in the first place. And while that little weasel was MIA, I don’t think she survives past this season if she is incapable of redemption.

  68. Points for Ernie Hudson, another John Stewart nod with Diggle’s step dad being named Roy Stewart, and the Will Magnus/Metal Men reference.

    Eye roll with Dante being the killer all along and a Deathstroke gang and it being led by JJ. Sure you didn’t wanna just call them Deathstrokez? ;) Diggle and Andy repeats itself through JJ and Connor. Shrug. Kinda curious if Diggle and Layla are still alive in time skip.

  69. Arrow "Spartan"

    Ernie Hudson is a VERY interesting actor. He’s one of those rare actors who makes every project he’s in better by simply showing up. If the project is good, he makes it better. If it sucks, he makes it suck less. It is ironic to me that Winston Zeddmore is the least defined Ghostbuster. Because Hudson totally takes after Bill Murray in inevitably being the best thing in any project he’s involved in.

    The Stewart thing is another thing to say John is going to be Green Lantern someday.

    For the record, as a judge of character, John absolutely sucks. It’s bad enough he trusted Andy. The General is like one of the most likable and least pretentious authority figures I have seen in fiction. Only a completely blind person would describe someone like him as a hardass. He literally never stops smiling. My favorite thing about John revealing he learned the truth at the end is that the General tells him his father would be proud of him. Which is the correct message. It doesn’t matter if his father was a bad soldier, it’s that he loved him. And if he loved him, there was no reason for John to have to grow up believing he was a bad soldier. Dig seems to believe the unearned hatred he has spewed at this man is some great sacrifice on his end. In reality, it’s a no-brainer. A GOOD step-father will let the kid hate them to protect the memory of the father. And the truth is very few stepfathers are actually good enough to be willing to do that. But for the General, it was the least he could do. Did I mention I love Ernie Hudson?

    I am SO upset Emily Bett Rickards is leaving the show. The episode proves that she’s not just indispensible to the team, she’s indispensible to the show too. Seriously, Rickards? You could make it through ten more episodes? However the show ends, whether or not she come back for the finale, the last season will be much worse with her gone. And I’m kind of resigned to that fact now.

    Doc Magnus? How would the Metal Men even work on a TV budget? I get the Doom Patrol TV show is a thing, but the Metal Men are a next level of weird.

    Ernie Hudsom makes everything better. ****.

  70. Loved Ernie Hudson. Best part of the whole episode. Kinda weird though that Emiko would call Oliver a liar only to then shoot Dante in the back with only Oliver’s word to go on. The episode as a whole was pretty decent.

    Honestly, I hate the Easter egg drops. Mostly because they usually never do anything with them. Like, Diggle is supposed to be John Stewart? Ok. It’s not like Elseworlds didn’t already go there. I’m also not fond of Berlanti going anywhere near Green Lantern since he was involved with the Ryan Reynolds movie. The man produced and co-wrote the thing for crying out loud. lol Anyway, at least with something like Young Justice, you know that any Easter egg they drop, they intend to pay off later on. Here though? It’s just cheap fan service. "Oh look at that! We referenced Hal Jordan! (The reference was in Flash season 1 if I remember right. Something about a pilot from Ferris Air that disappeared.) Aren’t we cool for referencing Hal Jordan?" No. You’re not.

  71. Kinda weird though that Emiko would call Oliver a liar only to then shoot Dante in the back with only Oliver’s word to go on.

    Queens do weird things when they get emotional. :p

    Like, Diggle is supposed to be John Stewart? Ok. It’s not like Elseworlds didn’t already go there. I’m also not fond of Berlanti going anywhere near Green Lantern since he was involved with the Ryan Reynolds movie. The man produced and co-wrote the thing for crying out loud. lol Anyway, at least with something like Young Justice, you know that any Easter egg they drop, they intend to pay off later on. Here though? It’s just cheap fan service.

    Yeah, safe to say it just functioned to cement the line from Elseworlds in that the AU version of Diggle took the Stewart name and became a GL. Diggle won’t.

    "Oh look at that! We referenced Hal Jordan! (The reference was in Flash season 1 if I remember right. Something about a pilot from Ferris Air that disappeared.) Aren’t we cool for referencing Hal Jordan?" No. You’re not.

    Pretty sure we saw also Hal’s back in that bar Oliver was at when Waller first approached him in idk season 3 or 4.

  72. Not digging killing off Dante so soon, not with a month to go in the season. Thought they’d save that for the season finale.

    @Yojimbo: Deathstrokez? This ain’t the 90’s, much less Batman Beyond, ya know. I think subbing a z for an s in plurals isn’t a thing anymore.

    My brain hurts from those flash-forwards.

  73. After watching that episode, man do I feel conflicted, which I guess was kinda the point given what happened. I’ll try to give more detailed thoughts on it tomorrow after I sleep on it a while, but for now, I’ll just say this: why the heck are they rehashing the "Roy kills innocent people" plot!? You would think they could come up with something more original, like say have the guards be paid off by the Ninth Circle and try to stop Team Arrow (which isn’t entirely out of the question given how deaf those guards had to be or that they only tried to grab Roy) but there was no way to prove it so they had to cover it up, but nope!
  74. I don’t like that it was Roy, the guest star. Felt weak sauce. At first I thought the guards were Ninth Circle goons incognito.

    I didn’t like the police arresting the team. It’s season seven, writers – not one.

    Emiko’s getting kinda boring to me. Feeling like Prometheus-lite.

  75. Man. Thinking back on that episode, first thing I thought of was how Roy was wasted so far this season. Remember how his appearance in the flashforwards in the premiere was one of the big surprises from the episode? And they’ve done so little with him since.

    Probably the worst part of all of this is that we can predict exactly how the rest of the series will go at this point. The security footage will make its way to SCPD, destroying Team Arrow’s partnership, effectively explaining why all things vigilante are outlawed (more outlawed I mean; you get the point), and explaining why Roy exiles himself to Lian Yu (by the way, it’s weird that Roy’s bloodlust only showed up once in the flashforwards so far). Assuming they even deal with Emiko by the end of the season and not drag it out, Season 8 will probably have Team Arrow go into hiding leading up to Crisis on Infinite Earths.

    And on top of that, I really hate how convenient it is that Oliver basically gave Emiko a smoking gun by covering up the whole thing. There’s also something to be said about Oliver’s first reaction being to cover it up. Like wow Oliver. It’s like you were trying to destroy everything you worked toward in order to match it up with the future. :rolleyes:

    The episode itself was fine enough I suppose. There was plenty of misdirection to keep one guessing as to what happened. I still think they could’ve come up with a more original twist than "Roy killed innocent people because he was under the influence of something. Shocker."

  76. I don’t like that it was Roy, the guest star. Felt weak sauce.

    To be fair, Colton Haynes has been billed as a series regular this year.

    Arrow "Confessions"

    So help me, I liked that a lot. It had its share of holes but I ultimately was willing to forgive them. Let’s start with the biggest two before getting more complimentary. One of them is a story problem and character problem and the other is a typical Arrowverse mistake of not understanding the first thing about law enforcement or the justice system.

    First off, I am moved that Oliver covers for Roy and he doesn’t even have to ask for it. Here’s my question: Should he be doing that? While he is right that it could potentially destroy the fragile alliance between the SCPD and Team Arrow, I think they are missing a larger concern. What if Roy does it again? It’s Lazarus Pit rage. That’s not something he can either help or ignore. What is to stop him from doing it again? And this was literally his first mission back. I think it sucks that the Team Arrow / Police alliance is shaky at all, but I think I would risk it if it meant Roy wasn’t in a position to do that again. I certainly wouldn’t let him go on further missions.

    The second plothole could almost have been explained away. But Oliver reveals to the police that the new Green Arrow is his sister and working for the Ninth Circle. That’s actually fine. What isn’t is that from that point forward it doesn’t make sense that the rest of the team are acting like they knew Oliver did that and calling Emiko out by name. In separate police interrogations, that sort of information is kept from the other suspects to help trip them up and see if their stories are actually straight. The reason it ALMOST fits is that Oliver and Dinah set all of this up ahead of time. But the other cop wasn’t in on those plans. As long as the suspects are talking about that information in front of him as if the cops relayed that to them, it’s a plothole.

    For the record, screw you and your food obsession, Felicity. Innocent people are dead. Because of Roy. And you know it and are covering it up. The least you could do is take it seriously.

    There were two things in the episode I absolutely loved, both involving Oliver. My second favorite thing was Rene asking Oliver if he ever thought that maybe his messed up family turned Emiko into the person she is. And he correctly points out, "Dude, yeah!" That’s all he thinks about! And at some point, people are responsible for their own actions. She made her choice. I loved that message. Emiko is a grown-ass women. She is perfectly capable of making her own decisions. Every evil thing she does is actually entirely up to her. My regret about that awesome notion is that it was in the same episode that the team has to cover for Roy for committing a crime that was outside of his control. I loved the message and think that they should have put it in an entirely different episode. Because it has a different subtext in hindsight once we learn the truth about what Roy did. And that message was so awesome, if I wrote this show, I would not change that subtext for any reason.

    The other Oliver moment I loved was "What did you say?" Believe it or not Stephen Amell is not just a pretty-boy model who was cast solely for his abs. That was a great bit of acting. Basically in the space of those four words everything has changed. Oliver is no longer inclined to give her any of the benefit of the doubt he was describing to Rene. She’s clearly dead to him now. And bonus points for making her responsibility of Robert’s death boil down to a sin of omission rather than being the mastermind. That doesn’t violate the canon and is still something completely unforgivable on Oliver’s end.

    For the record, Emiko is a legit bad person. She’s talking about what Robert deserved… and then she pivots to saying it’s what Oliver deserved too. Really? Does she actually think that, after all Oliver has done for the city? If so, her vendetta has no logic or rationality attached to it after all. She isn’t a wounded daughter or sister, she’s a spoiled brat at best, and utter sociopath at worst. Considering the hard life she led, it’s clear it’s the sociopath thing that’s the truth. I can’t believe Oliver and Rene ever defended this woman.

    But that was an entertaining episode altogether. Bonus points for no flashforwards. ****.

  77. For the record, screw you and your food obsession, Felicity.

    I think the food obsession thing was supposed to come off as "Ha! …You know because she’s pregn-" it wasn’t funny to me either.

    And bonus points for making her responsibility of Robert’s death boil down to a sin of omission rather than being the mastermind.

    To be fair, the show never claimed she was the mastermind. That distinction was accredited to Malcolm Merlyn back in Season 1. The biggest this could’ve been was that she was the one who planted the bombs on the Queen’s Gambit, which is what I was certainly thinking when Dante handed her that envelope in that episode. And while I still think it’s unnecessary, I agree that it’s better than her having a direct hand in it.

  78. Emiko ran out of opportunities for redemption stamps. She is not a villain in the books, but these imbeciles writing the show decided they just had to have an evil archer this season.

    Good story, otherwise. Similar plots have been used on other dramas in the past.

  79. Did… did Arrow just make a reference to The Zeta Project? If so, neat.

    I thought this was a good episode overall. Loved Tommy coming back as a part of Oliver’s dream, even if it is a bit repetitive for Oliver to have to learn to not kill someone for the third time now.

    Everything else is pretty much playing out as I predicted last week. SCPD has the footage, Team Arrow’s partnership with SCPD is all but dead, Roy is full of guilt (didn’t predict he’d do something that was borderline suicidal though, holy crap), and the episode ends with SCPD getting ready to hunt Team Arrow down. Man I hope I’m wrong, if only to be able to be surprised going forward.

    Finally, to call back to something Yojimbo said last week about how Emiko was basically Prometheus-lite in the last episode, this week she said this: "You’re supposed to be dead. But this will be even better. Now you can watch me burn your city to the ground." Now she’s Deathstroke-lite too. Great.

  80. Arrow "Living Proof"

    God help me, I liked it. Don’t look at me like that. For the most part I can justify my likeness.

    It all comes down to last week. I enjoyed last week and gave it a positive review because it was a great episode, but in the back of my head, I thought it probably would ruin the rest of the season, if not the show. It was a case of compromising the heroes for absolutely no real reason as far as the story went. It was just an added complication to an already complicated season, which for me indicates shoddy writing. You do not need to throw curveball after curveball at the viewer if the basis of your story is actually sound. You can simply tell it instead.

    But the fact that the conspiracy was immediately revealed at the beginning of this episode says this will probably not hurt the show. The characters are not in a position to compound their lies now and the truth helps them (except for Roy). And it’s the fact that the show did that so quickly and cavalierly which makes me wonder why they did it in the first place. That was a pretty huge deal to just neuter in one episode. Which leads me to believe that this is a solid first step in fact that vigilantes and law enforcement wind up on opposite sides in the future. Maybe it’s not a juicy complication to jazz things up. Maybe it’s actually a significant turning point. Which is NOT bad writing.

    Do you know what was? The dream sequence fake-out. It confused me, and then angered me. I don’t like being lied to, or used that way by the writers. Much worse, I think dream sequences designed to trick the viewer into seeing what they aren’t seeing are quite damaging to the show. Now if Diggle dies for real, there will be no actual pathos involved. I won’t believe the Boy Who Cried Wolf when he needs me to. I’ll spend the entire episode and rest of the season and series wondering how he’s going to get out of it. I see the argument that dream sequences are cheap fake-outs and storytelling cheats. But that’s the least of their problems. In shows with life or death stakes, it lowers the stakes if I can never actually trust what I am seeing. And it’s amazing that all writers not only don’t automatically know this, but the fans don’t call them out for this specific reason either. For most fans they see it as a betrayal of the fan’s trust. For me, it’s a betrayal of the show’s integrity. Which is much worse, at least for the show. I’m just a rando internet critic. How I feel doesn’t ultimately matter. How the show is perceived by everyone else actually does. And it amazes me nobody ever makes that argument.

    The Zeta Program? Is that a precursor to The Zeta Project? It seemed like that’s what that reference was, especially since it took place in the future.

    I love that Tommy is the angel on Oliver’s shoulder. And the interesting thing to me is that all things considered, I am on Oliver’s side in thinking Emiko should not be redeemed. Maybe I don’t think he should kill her, but Tommy putting it on HIM to end his family’s cycle is not actually Oliver’s fault or responsibility. Maybe it’s childish to say "Well she started it!" but it’s not only true, it’s the only argument Oliver actually needs.

    The beard bugs me and makes me resent that Colin Donnell came in while a regular on a different show. It makes no logical narrative sense. It is so nonsensical that the show has to embarrassingly bring it up to point out how nonsensical it is. I didn’t like Locke commenting that Walt "Looked Bigger" on Lost either. But you couldn’t ungrow Malcolm David Kelly the way you could shave Colin Donnell.

    For the record I continue to be extremely upset at Emily Bett Rickards for screwing over this show’s final ten lousy episodes. The show is going to be SO much worse for her being gone. Ten lousy episodes, Rickards. You couldn’t last TEN lousy episodes.

    Do you know what I noticed we haven’t seen from Vigilantes in the future? Foiling actual crimes. Which seems weird to me.

    But I enjoyed that very much. Shut up. ****.

  81. Well, as far as finales go, that wasn’t the worst finale the show has had. With that being said, there are a few things to pick apart before we get to the good stuff.

    Why were the Zetas screaming when Mia sent them flying? I thought they were robots.

    Zoe’s entrance when she saved Rene and William was just so cringy, both with her posing and with the Zeta just standing there.

    I don’t see the logic in Diggle saying that Emiko has a bigger axe to grind than Prometheus or Slade. Emiko’s vendetta revolves around what their father did to her, including favoring Oliver over her. Prometheus and Slade had a vendetta for something Oliver did.

    Honestly the final fight scene was a bit anticlimactic. It felt a little too easy to redeem Emiko. For that matter her death scene felt a little odd too. She takes a knife to the gut, and she’s fine enough to keep fighting. Then she takes a punch to her gut and gets flung through a flimsy looking wall and all of a sudden she’s dying? Also, not a fan of the scene devolving into fighting faceless goons. What happened to the Longbow Hunters? Weren’t they supposed to be a thing?

    So they save the city and just like that they’re going to sweep the team’s crimes under the rug? Guess we’ll just mark it as item #876 under list of times Arrow doesn’t know how the law works.

    Honestly the whole scale for the finale felt so small given the stakes. Like, we see them terrorize a mall, and then… that’s it. I mean come on people.

    So Oliver put Felicity and Mia into hiding because Emiko saw to it that they would die? The same Emiko who just got ousted by the Ninth Circle due to her personal feud outing them to the public’s knowledge? What exactly did Emiko do to ensure it? It’s not like there was anyone who sides with her within the Ninth Circle anymore.

    Now for the good. As bland as the final fight was, it did bring me joy to see both Laurel and Bronze Tiger fighting alongside Team Arrow. Curtis’s return was welcome, but did he really contribute anything to the episode?

    The final scene between Oliver and Felicity was really bittersweet, especially since this might very well be the last time we see these two together.

    And then the Monitor shows up and basically confirms what we suspected since December: Oliver will die during the Crisis. Nice of them to finally confirm what was probably the most telegraphed plot point in the Arrowverse in years. lol

    So… we getting 10 episodes of Oliver traveling the multiverse? :cool:

  82. I was confused by Beatrice. Yes, another character nod to Dante’s Inferno but I don’t remember Beatrice showing up at all on Arrow which leads me to conclude she debuted in this episode, the season finale, just to take control of the Ninth Circle and basically run away with Virgil…

    Why were the Zetas screaming when Mia sent them flying? I thought they were robots.

    Those were the people o.s. the Zetas fell on top of. :p But yeah, pretty odd choice.

    What happened to the Longbow Hunters? Weren’t they supposed to be a thing?

    I guess the check didn’t clear and they bailed. :p It’s definitely a case of add them to the list of characters they’ve bungled.

    So Oliver put Felicity and Mia into hiding because Emiko saw to it that they would die? The same Emiko who just got ousted by the Ninth Circle due to her personal feud outing them to the public’s knowledge? What exactly did Emiko do to ensure it? It’s not like there was anyone who sides with her within the Ninth Circle anymore.

    Maybe Virgil would want to take them out but yeah, I basically saw the feds formally offering witness protection according to protocol and seeing the benefit of it even though the threat was minimal, Oliver and Felicity accepted.

    So… we getting 10 episodes of Oliver traveling the multiverse? :cool:

    Seems like it, and probably encountering AU versions of people are and have been in the cast over the course of the series. I guess aiding Monitor in recruiting the strongest heroes for the Crisis.

  83. Arrow "You Have Saved This City"

    My impression was favorable but I am opposed to giving that a high grade. Which is a bit of a shame because the ending was great, and the perfect way to write out Emily Bett Rickards without destroying Felicity and Oliver’s relationship. And the ambiguous ending suggests that Oliver is not dead, and there may be a secret happy future for him beyond The Crisis. And any finale that does 20 minutes of wrap-up is going to be more satisfying than usual. It teased the Crisis perfectly, raised the stakes and gave us the perfect ending for Felicity (although I hope Rickards returns for the series finale).

    Unfortunately there were a couple of things I majorly objected to. One of them is just this show being sloppy in its style choices and direction, and the other is literal narrative malpractice. I have given this show zero star grades for a less disastrous plot turn before.

    The sloppy thing was the cuts in the climax of the explosions in the past and present. The worst part about the flashforwards, especially in this episode, is I couldn’t tell which action scene was happening at the time. It is rank incompetence that the show expects anyone in the audience to keep exploding buildings in two different timeframes straight. It’s an unreasonable ask.

    But that’s just this show being this show. The thing that I was pretty sure after I saw it would ruin the season was an infamous Berlantiverse unforced error. And a halfway decent writer never would have done it in a million years. But the Ninth Circle showing up at the end of the climax when they did is narrative incompetence. A halfway decent show would have somebody on the writing staff smart enough to understand why it wouldn’t work. Not every show has a Joss Whedon to save clueless writers from themselves making easy mistakes. But this mistake was SO big, I cannot fathom how there wasn’t a single person on staff to nix it.

    But the tension (for the first half of the episode at least) is over whether or not Emiko can be redeemed. It’s what the season was billing itself as being about. And when Oliver tells her to kill him and holds out his hand for her to either take or brush past to stab him I was super upset the Ninth Circle interrupted that. Ironically it could have been for the better. We could have seen Emiko making that decision in front of her former allies, and it was mean more to rebuff them with arrows pointed at her. Instead, the Ninth Circle lady automatically deposes her instead, and takes her redemption entirely out of her own hands. Emiko was not redeemed. Not because the character was irredeemable or all bad. But because the writers were too stupid to understand that in order to redeem a villain, they have to be forced to make an actual tough choice. Emiko was denied that. As I said, I have given episodes zero stars for less.

    But the wrap-up with Felicity, the tease with the Crisis, the hints that Oliver’s future may not be all bleak, means that the season maybe wasn’t ultimately about Emiko being redeemed after all, so I can forgive it a little. But man, that was a tough scene to forgive. The Arrowverse is often a terribly written franchise. It says something that that moment was such an extra special level of suck that I noticed it that much. Good writing doesn’t tend to draw attention to itself. Bad writing is easily identifiable. Which is why David E Kelly is a bad writer and the Emmys are indefensible. (But that’s probably a rant for a different review.) But a well-written script should not only seem effortless to the audience, but they should pretty readily be able to accept it without thinking to hard about it and able to focus on other things. In a scene as badly written as that, it’s SO jarring that you notice nothing else. I am glad that if Emiko wasn’t redeemed, the episode sort of was in the last 20 minutes. But that was NOT a scene that would ever happen in a show with actual decent writers. It wouldn’t happen in a million years.

    But as I said, I liked enough about the end of the episode to give it a passing grade. But it’s a grudging pass on my end. ***1/2.

  84. Felicity ending scene reminded me of the way CRISIS ended for a couple of long standing DC Characters.

    I found Mia to be most unlikable.
    I often hoping someone would punch her face in.
    If there is a spinoff series with those future characters it will be the
    first ARROWVERSE show not to be viewed by me.

  85. Felicity ending scene reminded me of the way CRISIS ended for a couple of long standing DC Characters.

    I found Mia to be most unlikable.
    I often hoping someone would punch her face in.
    If there is a spinoff series with those future characters it will be the
    first ARROWVERSE show not to be viewed by me.

    I don’t like the flash forwards, and there were too many of those this time, such that it nearly ruined the dynamic of the episode.

    I too remember the actual Crisis on Infinite Earths book, and I think you’re referring to Earth-2’s Superman & Lois Lane, IIRC. Ollie & Felicity are taking their places in being "taken home" by the Monitor, albeit at separate times.

    I honestly hope they can get Michael Jai White to return, as Ollie could use the Bronze Tiger’s help down the road in a short season, or spin him off into his own series.

    The constant, annoying flash forwards are Beth Schwartz’s legacy on this show. What are they trying to do, create an Arrowverse analogue to a dystopian genre soap the CW already has? (The 100, of course)