Home News The CW’s Arrow to End at Season 8

The CW’s Arrow to End at Season 8


Via Entertainment Weekly, even though The CW recently renewed Arrow next year for an 8th season back at the end of January, it will be its last season.  Stephen Amell, the Green Arrow himself, announced the end of Arrow on Twitter late this afternoon.

Amell also elaborated on his decision to end the show on Facebook Live via video saying he thought it was time to end things and that he made the decision with his family in mind.

All good things…

Posted by Stephen Amell on Wednesday, March 6, 2019

The final season, which will air next fall, will be a short 10 episodes.  Amell also added that even though Arrow is ending, this might not be the last time we see him as the green archer, especially considering the several spin-off shows from the Arrowverse.

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  1. Nice seeing Brick, Bronze Tiger, and Samson again.
    Oliver’s naked shower fight scene was a dozy.

    Yeah, that was awkward with the Felicity/ARGUS stuff.
    Also weird was that Black Siren is now the DA of Star City. WHAT?!
    Diggle look spiffy in his ARGUS uniform.

    Not sure about this flash forward business with Roy and William.

    Guess I better like those flash forwards as show runner Beth Schwartz says they are here to stay.

    ‘Arrow’ Flash-Forwards Will Remain Until Series Ends Says Showrunner

  2. I love the fact that we didn’t see the Argus save. Details in the following review:

    Arrow "Inmate 4587"

    To be blunt, that didn’t actually wow me. But on the other hand, besides the fake out dream sequence at the beginning, it didn’t make too many errors either.

    I am a little leery of the idea of flashforwards, especially to when William is an adult. It might box the show in too much, which is a concern to me. But if the writers have a good plan, like they did on Lost, it could work. It’s just it’s Berlanti. He is NOT Carlton Cuse. No WAY they have a solid plan. Nuh uh. I am beyond skeptical. This is the producer of shows who made a season long gimmick of Flash finally having to defeat a villain by outthinking him, and had the resolution being that his wife unplugged his wheelchair instead. That was freaking last year. NO way this ends well.

    Of course the new Green Arrow is Roy. It’s weird that nobody is even considering that it is.

    When Oliver walks away from that guy getting beat, I actually thought Oliver was pretty much worthless. He made up for it at the end of the episode, but that was a sucky thing to do, on a series where Oliver Queen has done nonstop sucky things.

    I’m still not sure why this show simply has Bronze Tiger be an outright bad guy, instead of turning him into a hero. But they had the same problem with Huntress, and to a lesser extent Vigilante.

    Not buying Laurel as the new D.A.. It is not credible that a "former vigilante" would be placed in that position. Dinah as chief of police makes a little more sense, but it’s still problematic for the same reason.

    Felicity sending William away to boarding school is 100% the wrong call. I’m not saying that she should have gone into witness protection with him again. But he should have been living with Argus where she would have easy access to him. This is already tough enough on the poor kid.

    Diaz made another huge mistake this episode, which is par for the course, and something I like. He took a shot at Felicity and missed. That is probably the dumbest thing the character has ever done, and I like that he did it because he doesn’t tend to do a ton of dumb stuff. What I especially like is that it is entirely believable he WOULD do something that dumb, even if, generally speaking, he isn’t. Because he IS obsessed with respect and entitlement, so it makes sense that he monologues to Felicity, allowing her time enough to survive until Argus steps in.

    What do I feel about not seeing the Argus save? I think that was a deliberate choice by the writers, and even if it’s not one I would have made myself, I like it. It makes Felicity showing up in the prison the Godsend to the viewer it is to Oliver. We wouldn’t have been as relieved as we were if we saw her fate.

    And yes, I am well aware that the show is not going to kill off Felicity Smoak. That doesn’t actually matter from a storytelling perspective. A good story can and will make you worry about those things, no matter how popular the character is, or how unlikely killing off a cast member that big is. And yeah, I did feel relief even if I knew deep down she was all right. It was a legit storytelling choice, and even if I wouldn’t have done it, I totally understand and accept the show doing it.

    Now amazing, but not full of unforced errors like the premiere of Riverdale was. As far as Berlantiverse goes, I’ll call that an outright win. ****.

  3. So instead of flashing back, we flash forward now. Whee.

    Still feel Diaz should’ve been caught at the end of last season. Why did they do this? Because the writers are morons. Diaz figured out where Felicity & William were, and he would probably have connections to the witness protection program. He has to be captured NOW! End this storyline before the crossover in December.

    Berlanti employs idiots on his writing staff. No research, no common sense.

    Anyone think Laurel is still working the double agent angle?

    Cody Rhodes (Runnels) returns as Derek Sampson. Didn’t think it’d be this quick, but I knew he’d re-upped. Vinnie Jones has lost whatever appeal he had as an actor. The sooner Ollie’s back on the streets, the better.

    Yeah, it’s pretty obvious Roy’s under the hood. Remember, he left with Thea before the end of last season, so he’s been gone more than five months. The reason Dinah, Rene, & Curtis haven’t thought of it is because of the moron writers.

    Any of us could write this better.

  4. Arrow "The Longbow Hunters"

    Good week. I mean, yeah. Good week. Let’s pick through the nitty gritty.

    I found Oliver framing the guard for stabbing him to be highly unethical, especially since the guy had a previously spotless record. But do you know why it was clever (besides keeping the guy alive?) First off, it was the best situation of no good options. It was either that or the guy dies. At least this way, the guy lives, and Oliver collects his favor from Brick. The second smart thing about the solution is that from what I know and have seen of Brick, self-sacrifice and being willing to do whatever it takes on his behalf is something Brick values. He’s the kind of guy who respects men who bleed for him. So while he may have ordered Oliver to handle that an entirely different way, I have to think that would have secretly impressed him more.

    Oliver’s buddy thinks he’s untouchable. It untrue, but it’s endearing. I love that he calls their hijinks Green Arrow missions. That isn’t what they are, but if I were working with Oliver Queen on a random project I’d call it that too.

    Emily Bett Rickards sounds like she has a cold, or at least a sore throat. I don’t know why this is, but for some reason she is emoting better than usual because of it. Is it possible because colds are frustrating and draining which is why Felicity is able to channel that so perfectly? Or does the cold simply make her voice sound deeper, raspier, and harsher? It’s hard to say, but were I John Diggle I would have taken a couple of steps back from her during several points in the episode.

    Laurel claims she is not That Person any more and actually cared about Quentin. While I think the Quentin thing is true, the truth is she WAS That Person less than a year ago. It’s way too soon to be claiming a triumph of personal growth in that short an amount of time. I think her apology to Dinah was a good start. But that’s all it was: A start. As far as I’m concerned she is owed no benefit of the doubt by Dinah merely by her own sayso.

    Good to know the flashforwards won’t take place entirely on Lian Yu. That would have been beyond frustrating to me if they had taken a whole season on the island. The flashforwards in Lost were amazing because they could take place anywhere with any character, and you were always surprised and learned new things. I hope and think that’s what Arrow is going for.

    Very cool William is gay. But it sounds like he hasn’t seen Oliver or Felicity since she shipped him off to that boarding school.

    One of the things I have to keep in mind about the flashforwards boxing things in is that this is the Arrowverse. If the flashforwards this season get a bad reception from viewers, I am encouraged that they could simply have Flash or the Legends undo it via time travel if they mess up the story too badly. I was really worried last week, but I forgot that there is an escape hatch built into two of the main premises of the Arrowverse. I hope they don’t eff things up so badly they’ll need to use them. This is Berlanti so it could go either way. But a retcon is possible if things get too big a mess.

    As I said, it was a good week. ****.

  5. I have hoping since ARROW started that Red Dart would appear.
    Although I thought it would be the original version "Jonathan Mallory" whose 1st appearance was in WORLD’S FINEST COMICS #95.
    But the female Red Dart is cool, love the shades.

    Don’t know if the female Red Dart comes from the books, but she may just be this show’s answer to Shades over on Luke Cage..!

    Silencer in this series uses a null field, but no costume. Ok.

    IIRC, in the books, wasn’t Connor Hawke (Ollie’s son) also retconned as gay? Connor was part of DC’s mid-90’s youth movement, in case anyone doesn’t know. Think I read somewhere that he’d been outed or came out, but I don’t have all the details.

    Dinah & Laurel have achieved peace. That works.

    Diaz makes a brief appearance. At least he didn’t chew the scenery this time.

  6. So, does the name Longbow Hunters actually make sense in the context of the show? Yes, the name comes from Mike Grell’s limited series, but there it referred to Ollie and Shado. Much later, the LBH team was assembled specifically to take on Green Arrow; that’s not so much the case here. Does anyone on the team of assassins at least use a longbow?
  7. I remember Mike Grell’s Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters miniseries back in the day. Don’t remember the Hunters being more than a 1-shot thing. Silencer came from the League of Assassins in the books, and, as we know, has her own book, where she’s a hero or anti-hero.

    Hate the snail’s pace of this storyline. Since Ollie’s part of the crossover, he’d have to be out by then.

    Surprising to see Watson wave good-bye. Sounds like there might be a cover-up related to Diaz (what a shock).

    I’m wondering if Cody Runnels (nee Rhodes) choreographed his fight sequences himself. He & Stephen Amell have become buds the last three years, so it’d make sense.

  8. Arrow "Crossing Lines"

    The problem of the teaser reminds the viewer that context is everything. That being said, the teaser didn’t work. The show does so many fake-out dream sequences that I wasn’t sure whether Oliver was dreaming that scenario until we hit the "Blank Hours Earlier" caption. And while there were no fake-out dream sequences in this episode, I hope everyone can see exactly how damaging they are to any franchise. They are not a case of being able to have your cake and eat it too. It means I question the veracity of everything I see onscreen, which is bad. It’s terrible from a storytelling perspective. I should be allowed to express shock as Oliver stabs a prison guard. But I cannot in the moment it is happening, because I’m not sure it actually is. And I take shots at the show using the fake-outs it does. This is why I take those shots. Because they weaken the show, and even weaken episodes that don’t use the trope. Nothing bad happening in Arrow will land as hard as it needs to because The Arrowverse traffics in fake-out dreams sequences. And that’s a problem for a drama. I don’t want to be one of those fans who bashes the writers’ intelligence or question why they have jobs. That’s not productive. But the truth is, this is not something that would ever effect a competent show. Not in a million years. As much smack as I talk about the Buffyverse, most of the rare fake-out sequences they did were things that you could pretty much already tell were dreams at the time. I never questioned the reality of the rest of the show. And this is the precise reason that trope is so damaging. I think the teaser failed, therefore the episode did too, due to things that didn’t even happen in this episode. And that shows how ultimately weak the show is in my mind, and why I will never be able to enjoy it properly ever again. And I feel sad about that, especially because this episode taken by itself was actually pretty good! But I was moved by it much less than I should have been, because the earlier episodes had routinely been trafficking in pure nonsense and I can never tell what’s what and when I’m being jerked around. And that’s a shame, because as I said, the episode was pretty good.

    Diaz has sort of been the White Whale this season, but what’s interesting is that he has much less screentime now than did before. To be honest, I love the fact that Kirk Acevedo used to EMOTE (read hammily overact) but it’s interesting they’ve kept the character relatively grounded so far this year, even when he’s trying to assassinate Felicity, or juicing on a chemical that gives him superstrength.

    I was not surprised Silencer was secretly captured. But I figured it happened under Felicity’s nose, and was Rene’s doing alone. This is much better. This is much more interesting because Felicity lets a woman who risked her career for her be fired rather than giving away the best lead they have. It’s despicable, but like any despicable thing Felicity ever does, it’s "Felicity Despicable". It’s not something I’d ever complain about another character doing, and I’ll easily be able to forgive her. Heck, at this point, I’m not even mad.

    I like that the show is giving Bronze Tiger some nuance. It bums me out that Oliver is changing levels for next week right as that happened. Bronze Tiger is supposed to be a hero in the DC Universe. And it seemed like the show seemed to be starting to set him up for that. But they won’t ever get to it as long as Oliver’s has moved levels. Too bad.

    Dig and Lilah’s arc seems very predictable to me of him distrusting her, her proving her loyalty, and him realizing he’s a chump. Maybe if I’m being charitable it’s not simply predictable. It’s consistent. It’s a constant factor in their relationship, and something John is going to have to deal with that more than usual because they are now working together. Just because I saw every beat coming doesn’t mean it bothered me.

    No flashforwards this week. Good. I don’t like them, and they seem to lessen my enjoyment a bit week by week. I’m glad they won’t an Every Episode Thing, like the flashbacks were for the first five seasons.

    The climatic fight scene was amazing. Thought that was worth mentioning.

    That was a good episode. That I’m giving a failing grade simply because the show was unable to move me in the way it was trying to because I don’t believe in it anymore. That’s really unfortunate. **.

  9. There seems to some confusion over the LONGBOW HUNTERS name.
    Yes it was a Mike Grell GA mini-series.
    But in the New52/Rebirth era its a name of a villains group, enemies of GA.
    Although Killer Moth is a member he is not an enemy of GA.

    Hopefully this article will clear things up.

    ‘Arrow’: Who Are The Longbow Hunters? [Updated]

    Oh, I know all of that, and at least Brick is present in the show even though he isn’t one of the Longbow Hunters here. My question is whether the name makes any sense in the context of Arrow, where they are a legendary group of assassins and not a team gathered together specifically to oppose Green Arrow?

  10. So we’re all in agreement Arrow is just killing time until the Crossover happens right? I mean, at least Barry in prison only lasted three episodes.

    Despite that I do actually enjoy Ollie in prison. Yeah the plot is moving at a snails pace but at least it fun watching all those fight scenes.

    Not gonna lie, but Emily Rickards performance is just always falling flat for me. When you juxtapose her with Candice Patton, Candice’s Iris seems to just be able to do more with less.

    She’s not convincing at all as a desperate wife/mother who’s at the end of her rope. I’m also LOLing at Felicity seemingly be safer when shes actively going after Diaz as opposed to hiding from him.

    Like did our boy Ricardo all of sudden abandon his plot to kill Felicity? Because if breaking into the CDC was no sweat for him, I’m sure he can figure out shes crashing at Rene’s couch.

    Typically I’m cool with dropping plot threads, its comes with networks TV, but for some reason this feels more egregious.

  11. Arrow "Level Two"

    This is what I knew would happen with the flashforwards and dreaded. Odds are Felicity faked her death but I still don’t have to like that cliffhanger.

    I also really dislike the notion that Felicity is being groomed to torture and kill. In a recent review for Supergirl I noted that the producers of these shows are writing about what it means to be a hero without actually understanding what it means. I definitely appreciate the fact that being a vigilante is not black or white. But The Arrowverse always uses murder and torture as a "Rite of Passage" and as if the character doing it for the first time is merely losing their virginity. And the shows seems to go out of its way and try to infect more and more characters that weren’t like that with that particular sickness. If the show were actually about what it means to be a hero it wouldn’t be doing that over and over again. The message would be the opposite. So yeah, for me, the reason I watch the show, the human drama, was a failure.

    I actually liked the stuff with Dinah and Rene. Rick Gonzalez has gotten REALLY good at emoting and with Paul Blackthorne gone, he’s the go-to guy for it now. And it sort of works.

    The one thing that worked and didn’t work at the same time was the brainwashing of Oliver. I resent the fact that the doctor is evil and is trying to get Oliver to lose his humanity and refer to himself as a number. That’s bogus. Because his advice is otherwise great. His promise to Robert on that boat was made under duress, and his father was a murderer. I am glad there is a person who reminded us that the bodyguard was an actual person with a family, not somebody to be cast aside for Oliver’s personal growth. Why are they making the guy who is correctly pointing out that Oliver is basing his mission around a desperate promise for a terrible person, and will bring that down on his son, evil? It doesn’t make sense to me. That particular thing doesn’t just make me think that the writers don’t know what being a hero means. They don’t seem to know what being a good person means. A person speaking that specific truth to Oliver should not be seen as a villain or a torturer trying to harm him. Because in reality everything he told him was true. All of the serums and machines cloud an issue that doesn’t deserve to be clouded at all.

    I am frustrated. And I don’t see any way out of this frustration short of me stopping watching these shows. Is that actually going to have to be a consideration at some point? Because there needs to be a limit for any franchise, and Supergirl and Arrow keep crossing it over and over again, and I keep pretending things are going to get better. And this is me no longer thinking that. *1/2.

  12. Prison psychologists are supposed to help prisoners transition out of a life of crime. This quack has Hugo Strange written all over him, except that he doesn’t do goofy experiments. As corrupt as Star City’s criminal justice system became last year thanks to Diaz, I’d not be surprised if that dork, who was MIA in this episode, is pulling the strings with Dr. Quack.

    I’m starting not to like the flash-forwards, too. Let’s get to the end of this story yesterday!

  13. Arrow "The Demon"

    Like my recent Supergirl review, I am now reviewing Arrow through the lens of a critic instead of fan. Also like Supergirl, this week was better than the previous week that caused me to stop being a fan.

    But Lord, there were problems. And the show is probably gonna suck next week. I’m looking forward to Anatole, and am rooting for him. But one of the reasons next week is probably gonna suck is because the courtroom drama is again, crap.

    They cannot appeal Oliver’s “conviction”. Why? He doesn’t have one. He wasn’t convicted. He took a deal and pled guilty. Once you plead guilty, you cannot appeal. That’s the compromise D.A.’s use to dangle deals to perps in the first place. If you could appeal deals, there would be no point in offering them. This is why for a lawyer’s client, an acquittal is always preferable. ALWAYS. Most lawyers are unable to secure that, especially for guilty people, but people hate taking deals because unlike convictions, you can’t appeal them. So next week’s Berlanti courtroom hijinks are going to suck right off the bat, because the writers don’t do any research. What bothers me is that I know this stuff, and I didn’t actually do any research. I’ve just watched enough Law & Order. For Berlanti and his gaggle of inferior writers, his output seems to exist in a vacuum only occupied by itself and other sci-fi or comic book stuff. They really don’t bother learning the basics of TV 101 regarding the justice system. The writers are super lazy. And it doesn’t affect just the Arrowverse. Riverdale currently sucks for the same reasons. Berlanti expects the bare minimum from his writers, and they never fail to live down to that. When Arrow was the only big show he had, things were run pretty tight. Once he started branching out into over a dozen series, some related, some not, they all suffered for it. The worst thing is that Berlanti doesn’t seem to believe in fact checkers, or script editors, or even professional consultants in given fields to help make things authentic. And that’s a bummer.

    What’s nuts is that they don’t need to actually appeal a conviction to get Oliver out of prison using that info as leverage. They can simply get him early release, or his sentence commuted, or even a pardon. This show is only as fake seeming and stupid as it is because nobody believes they need to try. Which is a bit infuriating.

    I am very happy the Demon was Talia Al Ghul. That is the only person it should have been, and I’m glad the series lived up to my hopes and expectations. Great Batman hint too. He’s definitely a thing in the Arrowverse, and is already Talia’s enemy. But I kind of question how Batman can be Batman at all without Ra’s. But that’s a question for a different, yet-to-be-produced, series.

    The courtroom stuff last season also did a really bad thing. It made me question the authenticity of everything else on the show. I can work with and accept the horrible prison stuff, because it is portrayed as abnormal and something for Oliver to fix. And it is to his credit he makes sure to fix it. They don’t need to make things authentic as long as they are considered extreme. But the Argus stuff is another thing entirely. And I thought I was gonna love the Argus stuff this season. I should have. Wasn’t Curtis’ Crowing Moment of Awesome just perfect?

    Except I don’t think it ever should have happened. Argus is supposed to be the Arrowverse’s version of a combo of the CIA’s top agents, by way of the Navy Seals. Pretty much the best of the best. If an agent on a team of that caliber is wavering the way Curtis is, they don’t get put in the field, much less sent on a mission where a terrorist can get ahold of a dangerous chemical weapon. I think Curtis’ personal growth is important to ME, and HIM, and maybe John, but it’s not important enough to jeopardize national security. And maybe I only notice this because it’s The Arrowverse, but whenever this stuff happened on Alias, it was considered a mistake. When Marshall went undercover, bad things tended to happen to him. And if they aren’t using a wishy-washy agent as a cautionary tale, and are acting like that’s the process for an average agent, they aren’t doing their research. Frankly Marshall in the field was bad too, but at least SD-6 was an evil organization, and didn’t actually care about the well-being of their agents. There is no excuse for a law abiding one to do this. Agencies like the CIA and the Seals want their agents to not only successfully complete the mission, but to survive. Those are the two goals. And you can’t reasonably expect either of those things, especially on the crucial missions, if you have a squeamish guy on the freaking fence. That’s not how it works.

    I noticed something good about the episode that was bad at the same time. Felicity was acting sensibly again. I am relieved she is back to normal, but honestly? It troubles me that she is. It means she is being written inconsistently from episode to episode, depending on who sends in the script. For a character like Felicity Smoak, that is terrible. Felicity is a character very much like Marge Simpson in that she has to be written 100% perfectly every single week for the character to work at all. I am convinced The Simpsons was the in wilderness for as long as it was because Marge lost her way, and the show lost its rational center. They could have Marge be normal SOME weeks. But unlike the earlier seasons, it wasn’t EVERY week, and that was probably a bigger cause of Simpsons doldrums than Flanderization or Jerkass Homer could ever hope to be. And that’s the problem of the writers disagreeing about where to go with Felcity. The show has now lost its center, or at least the center as she is supposed to be. And one of the things I loved about Felicity Smoak in the first three seasons of Arrow, is that they DID take the extra effort to make sure she was written perfectly. And once they stopped doing that in season 4 is when like The Simpsons, the show lost its way. And yeah, I differ with other fans who dislike Season 3. It’s not as great as Seasons 1 or 2 by any means, but it’s still pretty great in and of itself. And that’s because it hadn’t started damaging the cast for plot convenience. And when that started happening to Felicity, and then Dig, things became a mess, and one that I don’t see them being able to clean up as long as that production company is spread as thin as it is. While the Berlantiverse is more concerned with crossovers and finding new ways to launch related shows, the "minutia" like authenticity and consistent characterization is going to fall by the wayside. The bad thing for me is that the things that are falling by the wayside are the only things I actually care about. And that’s why I’m no longer a fan.

    This was better than last week, but that’s a pretty low freaking bar. And when I can no longer trust whether or not Felicity Smoak is going to be a hot mess or not on a weekly basis, we have problems. And Felicity being written correctly this week didn’t actually allay my fears. If anything, it exacerbated them. Because it means the writers don’t actually have a handle on things. I am still concerned even if it was a passable week. ***.

  14. But I kind of question how Batman can be Batman at all without Ra’s. But that’s a question for a different, yet-to-be-produced, series.

    Well, Batman had existed for 30 years before Ra’s al Ghul was even invented. And Ra’s had not been connected to Batman’s origin story at all until Nolan’s Batman Begins.

    I agree that the courtroom shenanigans and legal melodrama in the Arrowverse shows have been terribly written and terribly (if at all) researched.

  15. I finally watched it this morning before going to work.

    Talia is "The Demon". That shouldn’t have been a surprise to long time viewers. I count myself among those who "should’ve seen this coming". That she killed Dr. Quack after escaping was anti-climatic.

    It shouldn’t surprise anyone either that Diaz decided to go to Moscow to go after Anatoly, after the latter betrayed him last season.

    Funny thing. Consulting producer Marc Guggenheim was a lawyer before giving that up to be a writer. You’d think that as a consultant, Marc would school the writing idiots on legal precedents and such, or they’re just ignoring him.

    The problem I have is that they are stalling on the endgame to this melodrama. We know from the "Elseworlds" teaser that Barry & Ollie will switch bodies somehow (or the actors will switch roles for a week, whatever), which would mean Ollie should be out of Slabside in the next 2-3 episodes.

    Most of us can write better than these imbeciles. Anyone got better ideas on how to end this drama?

  16. Arrow “Due Process”

    That was a turning point. Both for me as a viewer, and the series as a continuing franchise. I’m calling it: The series is ruined. The series is unsalvageable. The series is now terrible, and can never improve. For all of its various faults in the previous seasons, nobody has done more to damage the franchise than Beth Schwartz. As far as showrunners go, in the future she will be described in the same disgusted tones fandom has for Marti Noxon and Brannon Braga.

    I cannot overstate how bad the flashforwards are for the show. I was afraid they would box things in. It’s far worse than that. Far, FAR worse. They make the scenes in the present irrelevant. And considering those scenes run parallel with three different spin-offs, that is pretty much the worst place for any franchise to put their flagship show. The flashforwards mean Elseworlds has no stakes. They definitely fixed it. And every single other thing on Arrow is similarly meaningless. Aside from learning Schwartz is determined to ruin the heart and soul of the show in Felicity Smoak, now every scene set in the present is something to dread.

    The series aped Lost’s most popular turning point by missing why it was popular in the first place. On Lost, we WANTED to see the characters get to those specific flashforwards. We LIKED the ambiguous futures for the characters, good and bad, because the scenarios were so juicy. This is different. If all of the characters lost their souls or their lives, everything they do in the present doesn’t matter. We aren’t looking forward to this. We are dreading it.

    Do you know the absolute worst thing? I think the series is now worse than Gotham. And I realize what a statement that is. But the nature of Gotham is that we are looking to the future for the way Batman is going to fix things. Here we are looking forward to Green Arrow failing his city, and every single character he ever cared about. Am I nuts for instantly seeing how wrong this is to do not only to the characters and the other shows in franchise, but the viewer itself? Was there no-one at DC smart enough to see how damaging using these kinds of flashfowards would be for the CW Network’s most important set of shows? And the thing that bothers me most is that nobody would even have to be particularly smart to put the kibosh on this storyline. What I just stated was common sense. A lot of times on a DVD commentary, a show creator will describe a juicy plot they abandoned because they realized as they were putting it together that it hurt something about the show. Every single TV series has one or two of those potential horror stories. But the thing they each had in common was that there was a person involved in the production on some level, big or small, who pointed out why it wouldn’t work. Why it would ruin the series, and destroy the viewer’s faith in it. And this is such a no-brainer of a bad plot idea, it is alarming nobody thought to immediately shoot it down.

    I’m just gobsmacked right now, and cannot wrap my head around the show destroying itself without having any clear gameplan. I am not happy about this at all. And frankly, were I the showrunners for The Flash, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow I’d be furious too. 0.

  17. Positive:

    Diaz gets caught, but we know this may not last more than a week.


    Ollie still doesn’t trust E2 Laurel, even though she’s trying to make it up to E1 Laurel’s late father by carrying on his legacy. Get over yourself, Ollie.

    In the middle:

    Fone Bone mentioned Ollie’s only friend in prison is named Stanley, and no one even thinks to make reference to Laurel & Hardy with these two? The mind boggles.

    I’d like them to do a whole season without flashbacks and flash forwards.

  18. Can someone tell me again, why Diaz is giving Ollie and the team more trouble than Ras al Ghoul and Damien Darkh, and how he’s got everyone in his pocket? Is he really rich?
    Is this the worse case of Plot Armor ever?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. Arrow “The Slabside Redemption”

    That was full stop awesome. I do not need to equivocate or “Yeah, but” this specific review. All of my current problems with this show were irrelevant during this episode. It was full-stop amazing.

    I am not all about the fight scenes on this show, but I think this was SO good. It’s everything everyone raves about the Daredevil fights scenes. But the Daredevil fights scenes don’t matter to me at all. As well-boarded and choreographed as Daredevil’s occasional one-shot fight scenes are, they don’t ultimately matter. He’s always fighting nameless thugs in those scenes. Arrow versus Diaz is actually personal. And his isn’t just about surviving. It’s also about saving the live of the prison guards, and eventually the other prisoners. Add to that that this is the first step on Bronze Tiger’s redemption path, and it’s like the scene was just as action packed as a Daredevil fight, but with actual emotional stakes I was invested in. That was phenomenal. And honestly, if more fight scenes were like that, I’d be more about the fight scenes than I am. But I will recognize and enjoy what a rare gift this episode was for ANY superhero or genre show. It was amazing.

    And how awesome was that last scene of the kiss between Oliver and Felicity as the camera pulled away to reveal the prison was on an island? I don’t know how Stanley expected to escape from that, but I doubt he died because we will not be that lucky.

    He turned out to be a far more evil and worse person than I ever suspected. And he GOT Oliver good at one point in the episode, so Ollie has no choice but to humor his delusions, while he’s tied up. But he’s a monster.

    They have been showing some nuance for Brick these past few weeks (and Turner notes things are not black and white in here) but in the end, Brick is a monster too. He cannot help himself.

    I love that before Oliver locks Diaz in the cell, he takes the ripped photo for himself, and the book to give to Turner. The guy who plays the prison guard Oliver saved plays the lovable character of ex-vampire Julius on Van Helsing, and I love that by the end of the episode he is exactly as grateful to not only Oliver, but to Turner, as he should be. It felt like a turning point, and that Oliver left at least two people in that prison better than he found them. And I freaking love that.

    The series is easier to love when there are no flashforwards in the episode. Another reason I resent them.

    Kirk Acevedo has a bad rap for overacting on this show, but I tend to like Diaz’s over-the-top antics. And I found his scene on the phone in the visitor’s room quite personal and riveting. That being said, he probably over-emoted at several points in the episode past where he should have. It was an extreme episode and situation, so I get why he was so frayed, but I hope this isn’t the new normal for Acevedo and Diaz. It didn’t quite work for me, for the first time ever.

    Speaking of emoting, I regret that Oliver is going to lose the full beard. Because it covers he face, Stephen Amell has taken extra care to emote with his eyes in an amazing way that he doesn’t do when the rest of his expressions are easier to read with less facial hair. It’s the same thing with Tom Hanks, and Amell does the same kind of nuances Hanks did in Cast Away. For some reason, after seeing that, I think the most perfect movie ever made (The Shawshank Redemption) would have been even MORE perfect had Tim Robbins had a full beard when he escaped. But the beard makes Amell’s eyes sad, and world-weary, and even gives his face a surprising amount of innocence. And I’m going to miss that.

    I cannot say enough great things about this episode. The best episode the show has done in years. *****.

  20. So Oliver is working with SCPD publicly as Green Arrow…. shrug… okay.

    Robert had another daughter from another lady? Oh come one!!! I guess she’s an adaptation of Emiko Queen from the comics.

    And I guess this Ninth Circle will be the real big bad, not Diaz and the Longbow Hunters, maybe even past this season if it’s renewed. And they are from the comics, circa 2016.

  21. Arrow “Unmasked”

    Yeah, I could get used to Oliver working for the police.

    The stuff with Felicity was grating, and the flashforwards were still ill-advised (if not as terrible as most weeks). I also don’t see anything good coming from Dig working with Diaz.

    Fuller is an idiot. Did he really think he could take out the Green Arrow with hired goons? Moron.

    Interesting that the new Green Arrow is Oliver’s half sister. Why have we never heard of her before this? Hmmm.

    Same Elseworlds tease as Supergirl.

    Not terrible, which is the best I can hope for with an episode with flashforwards. ***1/2.

  22. Interesting that the new Green Arrow is Oliver’s half sister. Why have we never heard of her before this? Hmmm.

    The cynic in me says it’s because of bad writing and get ready for a retcon. It’d be funny if Team Arrow speculates it’s because Barry or the Legends did something stupid again.

    But she could fight Diaz, she had an arsenal in her hideout, she has a list – but is she older than Oliver or between him and Thea in age? I think we already know Robert cheated on Moira several times from mentions in season 1 I think and well, Isabel Rochev. Did Robert entrust the List plan to both her and Oliver as a failsafe in case one failed? For that matter, I don’t they ever explained how Robert knew about using ghost ink for it since it was a method the League of Assassins used, too.

  23. December 5th:

    It dragged on? Got boring?

    Yes on both counts. Also, it caused a bit of a conflict with my religious beliefs, and the inconsistencies in the artwork did not help.

    December 7th:

    Arrow “Unmasked”

    Yeah, I could get used to Oliver working for the police.

    The stuff with Felicity was grating, and the flashforwards were still ill-advised (if not as terrible as most weeks). I also don’t see anything good coming from Dig working with Diaz.

    Fuller is an idiot. Did he really think he could take out the Green Arrow with hired goons? Moron.

    Interesting that the new Green Arrow is Oliver’s half sister. Why have we never heard of her before this? Hmmm.

    Same Elseworlds tease as Supergirl.

    Not terrible, which is the best I can hope for with an episode with flashforwards. ***1/2.

    Based on what I know from the books, Emiko, aka Red Arrow in said books, is younger than Ollie, and I would guess she would be about Thea’s age or slightly younger.

    Dig & Lyla turning to Diaz for help with the Dante case will serve as an excuse to keep the boring villain around the rest of the season. Diggle & Ollie at odds again? Count on it. Diaz will stab ARGUS in their collective back. The writers are that incompetent.

    Elseworlds looks like it has a similar plot to last year’s Crisis on Earth-X, but with fewer players, and one less chapter. Someone on Reddit invoked "Freaky Friday" to describe Ollie & Barry’s body switch. The villain, though, doesn’t move the meter for me. Looks dumb.

    Mod Note: Double Post merged.

  24. Continued from The Flash, to be concluded on Supergirl! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    "Elseworlds, Part 2"
    Monday, December 10, 2018 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    With Oliver and Barry still stuck in the other’s bodies, the two get a lead on John Deegan and head to Gotham City with Supergirl to figure out why their reality has changed.

  25. Hilarious touch to do the Intro with Barry as Green Arrow.

    Oh the Batman easter eggs… Vesper Fairchild – one of Bruce’s exes, Batsignal, Gotham seems to be in a nigh-No Man’s Land situation, streets named after Nolan and Burton, Wayne building font/logo looks like the Dark Knight one, Kate alludes to Lucius, ’66 Shakespeare bust, another reference to Earth-38 Batman, references to Cobblepot, Isley, Nigma, Karlo, (and Guggenheim), Alfred, Dark Knight Rises Bane mask, Hugo Strange glasses, Riddler cane, Penguin umbrellia, Scarecrow fear toxin, Fries, Nora, Batmobile, World’s Finest nod.

    Then more nods to the Crisis on Infinite Earths/event on the newspaper from Flash season 1, Eobard and Merlyn, Jay Garrick Flash Earth-90 alluding to the long running fan theory that Diggle was going to be the CW version of John Stewart, Trigger Twins, Superman Prime.

    Didn’t care about the return of Deathstroke II nor the Fear Toxin induced fight (felt old hat at this point). It was a tad disappointing that Batwoman didn’t really have that much action scene screentime. I suppose the missing Batman will be a ongoing subplot for the proposed Batwoman show if it gets the greenlight — oddly like the X-Men and Hellfire Club being MIA on The Gifted.

  26. The modern day Trigger Twins were a pair of outlaws who appeared in Batman a ways back.

    Deegan is otherwise Dr. Destiny, whose gimmick in the books is that he is unable to sleep or something. it’s been a long while. His dreams warp reality.

    Interesting that they can use Nora Fries, but not Mr. Freeze. For those scoring at home, Cassandra Jean Amell is Mrs. Stephen Amell.

    We could have gone the whole show without Dullsville Diaz, but no.

    Interesting to see how this finishes.

  27. Arrow “Elseworlds: Part Two”

    The switched identities thing really got confusing at various points. Still, I laughed when Oliver essentially framed the Flash for stealing police evidence. There is a lot of fun crap Oliver can do without any consequences in this particular scenario.

    It was really interesting that Scarecrow’s fear toxic unleashed the reverse fears for Barry and Oliver, which was kind of amazing. Barry talks about Oliver’s burden, but I think deep down, Barry has always known that. Lord knows Oliver won’t shut up about it. But I think what Oliver learned about Barry was truly surprising. It’s one thing to know that Barry’s mother was murdered, it’s quite another to learn that his arch-enemy is the one who killed her, and Barry has to listen to those kinds of taunts whenever he faces him. That’s a lot worse than Oliver has with his rogues.

    I am immediately on-board a Batwoman series. And it can fit using the conceit that Batman’s reality is debatable to many people. People actually know what the Batmobile is, but that could just be GCPD hype and part of the hoax. This way it’s fits that Oliver ISN’T actually the first vigilante in the Arrowverse. But he’s the first confirmed one, even though Batman has been around longer than him.

    I think the Batman related thing that REALLY frustrated me was Kate revealing the password was “Alfred”. It’s a nice moment for the fans, but it is literally the worst password Bruce Wayne could EVER have conceived. It would be pretty much everyone’s first guess whether they knew he was Batman or not. Passwords are supposed to be something only the person who makes them can guess. This is why tech geniuses and the like never use passwords with personal connections to themselves. They either use random numbers or out of context random words that nobody could ever guess. If the World’s Greatest Detective is really that stupid and sloppy, the Batcomputer is gonna get hacked like THAT.

    I want to know how 1990 Flash knows John Diggle. Is he John Stewart on a future season of the 1990 show? Him disappearing when he did was especially frustrating while the question lingered.

    I am a little annoyed at Felicity. After hearing Caitlin’s explanations about WHY Oliver didn’t tell her about the body swap, I would have totally accepted that were I her. And she talks about how it’s just another excuse and Oliver always has one of those. What gets me about her saying that is that THIS season at least, the marriage problems are on her. Oliver has been pretty open and understanding this season, which is quite a departure for him and I don’t really feel like she is the half of the couple who gets to complain about the other keeping secrets and not trusting them. Am I nuts for thinking that? What I’m saying is that as of this season Felicity Smoak no longer has the high ground with Oliver. It feels completely wrong that she’s trying to act like she does. Oliver’s speech was nice and all, but as far as I’m concerned, she should have made it to HIM.

    I am amused that while it’s clear that Arrow is going to have a new weekly series introduction with Oliver out of prison, that the producers were forced to put Barry in it for the crossover before we could actually see what it was and pick out the differences. Which tells me Oliver stayed in prison one episode too long.

    Not as great as the first part but the cliffhanger was definitely better. ****1/2.

  28. Batman leaving Gotham isn’t new.
    He went missing in the BIRDS OF PREY Series also.

    Kara violated Batwoman by using her X-Ray vision on her. ;)
    I did like Batwoman landing on the van and capturing those inmates.

    That photo of Supergirl, Barry, Oliver, and Earth 90 Flash had almost every one excited.
    And that scene was a let down.
    Once again John Wesley Shipp gets short changed in an action scene. :(

  29. Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    "My Name is Emiko Queen"
    Monday, January 21, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    Oliver is ready to get back to work with the SCPD and to focus on his marriage with Felicity. However, when Dinah tasks Oliver with tracking the new Green Arrow things take a surprising turn. Meanwhile, Diggle and Lyla must answer to ARGUS about Diaz.

  30. Arrow "My Name Is Emiko Queen"

    For the record, both of Oliver’s parents were extremely sucky people. But as mad as Oliver is at his father, I think why Moira did was far, far worse. I do not see why he seems to be giving her a free pass for that. Robert would have posthumously provided for Emiko except that vindictive witch hid his will. There is very little about Moira Queen that can be defended, and what is ironic about her particular brand of conniving evil is that we seem to learn about the worst of it years later after it has already done so much damage. It was that way with William too.

    Present stuff: Good. Future stuff: suck.

    Rene is like the stupidest and corniest mayor ever. His speeches are outright laughable, and his hair is almost as bad as Trump’s. Is that who they are satirizing? Because I don’t like the implications if they are.

    I love that Rene tells Emiko that the entire thing was his daughter’s idea. Who can argue with Peanut?

    I dislike the idea of recruiting Diaz for the Suicide Squad. Diaz is one of those villains like the Joker who should not be purposefully let out of prison for any reason. They are far too dangerous to other people. Yeah, Diaz could get his head exploded. But who knows which innocent person he’d kill before the bomb was triggered. Not a smart idea. A better idea would simply be that John was lying to him about that. And if he was, and Diaz was dumb enough to believe him, he deserved what he got. But I guess the show got the Suicide Squad rights back, and wanted to set it back up as soon as possible. By starting out with the stupidest possible recruit.

    The future stuff is really dragging the show down. I’m interested in Emiko and their story, and how Felicity brings Oliver to her by calling her one of his father’s wrongs he promised to right. But the future is sucking all of the air out of the room, and making the entire series, and the rest of the Arrowverse set in the present, completely irrelevant. Beth Schwartz being made showrunner was the worst thing to ever happen to this show. Luckily outside of the future stuff, this episode wasn’t otherwise terrible. ***.

  31. My take:

    Future Rene and that wig aren’t as bad as you’d think. However, going down the rabbit hole of separating the Glades from Star City sounds all wrong. Bad enough Supergirl has devolved into one ongoing anti-Trump commentary, we don’t need the same thing from Arrow. If this keeps up, we’re bound to see the same thing across the board, and we don’t need that.

    I still don’t like these flash-forward segments, as they actually detract from the main story, leaving the viewers to figure out where they’re going with this. You have Marc Guggenheim, a lawyer-turned-comics/TV writer, moving to a consulting position, and new EP Beth Schwartz comes off as having little regard for what this show is really all about. Comes across as a CW network drone, as all they’re interested in is artificial soap opera drama. Under Schwartz, the writers have learned nothing from their mistakes.

  32. Guggenheim was a lawyer? You’d never know it considering how crap all of the trials in the Arrowverse are.

    Yep. Gave up his law practice to get into the comics business. Found that out 9 months ago when he was in town for a speaking engagement in Albany. The fact that trials on the shows don’t play out correctly can be blamed on the writers looking to take shortcuts in order to speed the stories along.

  33. Arrow "Past Sins"

    Aaaah, Arrow. It’s the little things that drive me crazy.

    Put aside the fact that the show destroyed itself with the flashforwards this year, and will never actually be good again. There are no flashforwards in this otherwise enjoyable episode. It’s just that there are so many little details the show gets absolutely wrong that it’s almost comical. To be blunt, Supergirl and The Flash have these kinds of problems too, but people remark upon how dumb they are. For some reason, because Arrow used to pass for decent, and is dark and brooding, it is not thought of as dumb as those two shows, when in reality it’s usually dumber.

    I was at a loss at the moment of the tech person talking about those ripped up scraps of paper meaning nothing by themselves, but when you put them together, like say, a freaking torn up piece of paper, you can actually read the paper with the right answer. They want me to be impressed that they solved a jigsaw puzzle with seven pieces. Maybe if the SCPD was made up of preschoolers they’d get a gold star. As of now, this is nothing to brag about. I was like "The writers can’t honestly think that’s impressive." I say this without hyperbole. This is exactly the kind of thing you see on Power Rangers, and is why that show is a universal punchline. And this show is actually exactly as dumb as that.

    And the idea that Oliver Queen’s approval rating dropped 30 points in a single day is ridiculous. Whoever wrote this episode, I just want to lock them in a room with Nate Silver for a good 20 minutes so that guy can totally kick their ass. That is not how polling trends work and never was. Again, it’s the little things that make this show seem totally phony and badly written.

    To be honest, there are actually a few things in the episode to recommend. I figured out the VR thing after Curtis was murdered, but that didn’t stop it from being a great act break anyways. You knew they’d get out of it, but until the show came back from commercial you weren’t actually positive how. I also love the idea that Curtis actually found a way to make the Suicide Squad moot and Argus is STILL dumb enough to keep going with it.

    I also really love the notion that this Laurel’s last words before her father died were that she hated him. That is SO Laurel Lance. Believe it or not, not everyone talks to people or their parents that way, and one of the most memorable things about Laurel to me, before they built up the character’s legacy after she died, is that she was an irredeemably nasty person, who would say the most horrific and disgusting things to people who cared about her whenever they displeased her. Thea had a similar thing going, but Thea is a sociopath who understands perfectly well what she is doing. She was a dirtbag, but a self-aware dirtbag, who knew what she was saying and doing was wrong and didn’t care. Laurel actually believed her bile was righteous, and was always puzzled why no-one ever loved her for it. It got so bad that it was pretty clear that all of the other characters were absolutely sick of her by the end. Everyone acting in hindsight like she was a beloved hero, daughter, and friend is a total retcon. Until she died nobody could even stand her. I love the idea that there is a Universe out there where Laurel had one of her Sweet 16 snits and her father didn’t get to hear her disingenuously take it back, and pat her on the head, and forgive her with a heavy sigh.

    Do you know what I love best about her telling Felicity all this? Felicity is back to being The Sage (of which she has not been this season) and she says something doubly insightful. She not only correctly points out it wasn’t Laurel’s fault he died, but that Laurel should have told somebody else about this sooner, so they could have told her this true thing years ago. This does not excuse what Laurel said to Quentin before he died. But it probably is narcissistic for her to believe that particular outburst meant more to him than it did. He probably died instantly and before he even realized it. He didn’t say before the car hit "Oh my God, I’m about to die and my daughter hates me and I’ll never win her back-!" / SMOOSH! That’s not how car crashes work. And maybe somebody could have pointed that out to her earlier too.

    I think the biggest problem of the episode is that the viewer knew the problem before the characters did. And the problem wasn’t that the security guard’s son was going to go on a rampage when Oliver lied on TV about his father dying a hero. It’s that the fact that he refuses to contradict that notion on television means that Emiko is 100% right to believe he is as unethical as his father was, and nothing has changed. He talks about wanting to turn over a new leaf and be given a second chance, but only the audience is made aware of why that’s so hollow. You don’t need the vengeful son getting back at his father’s murder to know that Oliver is doing very wrong by the sister he is hoping will be in his life by publicly pretending the man who hurt her and her family is actually a hero. Whether the guard had a vengeful son or not is actually besides the point.

    This show. I think people would be able to dismiss me as a nitpicking crank much easier if this show wasn’t giving me such easy ammo week after week. Most internet trolls who bash shows I love bash the shows for b.s. nonsense reasons. Every single week Arrow gives me all the evidence and receipts I would ever need to say the show sucks. A lot of trolls REALLY have to reach to bash otherwise popular stuff. Arrow makes me a critic and not troll, and does so quite easily, thank you very much. **1/2.

  34. Seems they ret-conned the origin to have a plot for this week. Meh. Is there a psychiatric hospital in Star City for Sam Hackett?

    Because people expect the Ghost Initiative to be code for Suicide Squad, I think having Curtis develop a VR simulation to replace the explosive devices is a good step. Now, if they could just keep Diaz muzzled for the rest of the season…….

    Laurel is being stalked, but it seems as though that problem’s not over yet………

  35. It’s that the fact that he refuses to contradict that notion on television means that Emiko is 100% right to believe he is as unethical as his father was, and nothing has changed.

    Yeah but Emiko is just as unethical since shes currently on a world tour of death to get revenge for her mother. Seems like its a little to late in the game for her to be that self righteous.

    Speaking of Emiko, Im not sure I understand what they want to do with her? Her and Ollie’s plot seemed wholly unnecessary given that they could of just as easily ended last weeks episode with her being totally welcoming of him and literally nothing would have changed by the end of this episode.

    Honestly same with Ollie. His conceding that his daddy was a piece of crap and him accepting responsibility for keeping Hacketts death from his son didn’t really do anything for his character arc. At this point in season 7, Ollie is good person, who’s learned from his mistakes. I don’t honestly know how much more he can grow from where he’s at. That scene at the police station had almost zero weight to it because it came as no shock that Ollie would accept that he messed up. Its like (well in a 26 episode series I guess they are) there just killing time till that final stretch of episodes.

    I wish Flash and Arrow would take the Legends route and only have like 15-16 episodes

  36. Speaking of Emiko, Im not sure I understand what they want to do with her? Her and Ollie’s plot seemed wholly unnecessary given that they could of just as easily ended last weeks episode with her being totally welcoming of him and literally nothing would have changed by the end of this episode.

    Probably just a contrived writer’s room idea about Ollie dealing with someone that’s S1 Ollie. And they’ll probably tie to the Dante plot.

  37. Arrow 150! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    "Emerald Archer"
    Monday, February 4, 2019 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    The 150th episode of “Arrow” showcases a documentary entitled “The Hood and the rise of vigilantism” starring Oliver Queen, Felicity Smoak, and the rest of Team Arrow.

  38. Glad to see Sin and Ragman in the doc. Been wondering about the former, just vanished from the show. And even referenced Huntress. Curtis’ "Suit up… they’re already suited up" in the doc and their faces was hilarious.

    Huhn, so Maya is actually Mia Dearden I guess and now Connor Hawke is in the mix.

  39. Arrow "Emerald Archer"

    Not too great, not too bad. Ultimately it gets a passing grade even if some things made me slightly unhappy.

    I kind of think I might have even been willing to really like the episode were it not for the sour future ending. I’ve mentioned the flashforwards pretty much destroyed the show before? It’s a pretty easily proven fact if I’m enjoying something that is 45 minutes long, only to be pissed off in the last two. That’s just plain, simple math right there.

    I think the thing I really liked about the episode was getting some much needed updates to characters the series just up and forget. If this is the last we ever see of Sin I’m fine with it. This is an update we should have gotten seasons ago, that she’s okay and out there. I similarly liked the idea that Ragman got his powers back, and is still out there, even if the idea that the serial killer fanboy makes his fate unclear. For the record, can I just say how much the series sucks for doing that? It’s not like they’ll ever clarify it down the road.

    And what is Huntress’s mask doing there anyways? In this continuity, she is a full-fledged villain.

    But I especially love that Paul Blackthorne and Willa Holland were gracious enough to come back to film new segments for the milestone episode. Quentin Lance is irreplaceable on the show, and it hurts now as much for his absence as the flashforwards, but him being willing to come back for special occasions at least means his parting from the show was amicable. Frankly, I never expected to see Willa Holland on this show ever again. She has been unhappy here for years, and not afraid to take the shots at DC’s terrible decisions regarding this franchise, that the producers themselves would be taking if they any sense or guts. I personally hate Thea Queen. But Holland is probably the most astute actor on this show, and the only one willing to call b.s. on it when it needs it. Whatever else the producers think of her for that, her being gone is a loss for that reason, whether Thea sucks or not. I’m glad she hasn’t completely cast things aside either.

    I have a feeling Rene would holster his gun if he had the slightest inkling William was gay. Rene is a moron.

    I would have liked to have seen an entire episode done in the documentary format. It would have been fresh and daring, and I think totally doable. It’s just… it’s the milestone episode. We have to have private scenes with William, and process him coming back, as well as solo scenes for Emiko. I would have preferred they attempted this on a non-anniversary episode, although I will concede they might not have been able to get back the guest stars they did.

    Why isn’t the Mayor being called upon to resign? I guess it’s nice and all that she’s softening on vigilantes, and is deputizing Team Arrow, but what happened at that assembly was the exact thing Oliver and Dinah warned her about in no uncertain terms. This is the kind of blunder that falls greater administrations than hers. Why is nobody on Team Arrow leaking the deets of this disaster to try and push her out? I always say the courtroom stuff on this show sucks. Well, truthfully, the politics ain’t so hot either.

    No reason whatsoever for Barry Allen to be interviewed for the doc. In fact, considering his alter ego, he should have declined even if they asked. But in real life they wouldn’t.

    Good to see some familiar faces again though. ***1/2.

  40. HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, 150 episodes. WOW!
    Seems a waste of money to hire Kelsey Grammer and only give him a couple of lines.
    Good to see the old familiar faces of Sin, Ragman, and Captain Lance.
    Actress playing young Zoe has a radiant smile.
    Too bad they couldn’t find a scene for Audrey Marie Anderson to appear in.

    I like the episode, ‘B’.

  41. I liked that they took a risk with a documentary styled episode. It even started off great with the WB animation opening ( i even had to hit pause and wonder if i got the right show) but everything after that was….ugh.

    Like there was just too many scenes that took me out of the episode because of the cameras following them around. Almost every other scene it was like, well there gonna cut that, and that, and that and theres no way they’re keep that culminating with "okay well there’s no way they’ll reveal Emiko’s face".

    Also….how did they get a hold of Sara Lance and did they mention that her sister is alive, or like, where shes been the last four years"? How far back did this idea for the director go because it looks like it was just as recent as Diaz being incarcerated to all the way in the middle of season 3? Speaking of Diaz…how did they get an interview when hes being detained in an Argus black site, and why include him? And why is Barry even there (even worse, I miss that version of goofy Barry Allen). By the middle of the episode I figured theres no way they’ll let this documentary see the light of day given how much its revealed. I mean don’t get me wrong, I typically leave my suspension of disbelief at the door with this show but the documentary style creates a new set of rules and therefore different expectations. But hey, at least they tried something new.

  42. The brief scene with Diaz was probably before he left Slabside.

    Anyone catch the insider references (Dr. Schwartz? The documentary director is named Pedowicz?)?

    Didn’t need the sudden flash forward at the end of the show. Couldn’t we go without that for a 2nd week?

  43. Oh come on! No more Curtis?!

    William, could care less. It doesn’t matter. If he stayed with Oliver, constant danger. If he moves in with the grandparents, bad guys will track him down and kill them and kidnap him or be in constant danger because they live in superpowerville — CENTRAL CITY!

    Mia is Felicity’s daughter. Whatever.

  44. Arrow "Star City Slayer"

    I don’t know the name of the actor who plays Stanley but he was super scary and crazy this episode. Great performance.

    I am a little less annoyed with the flashforwards hearing that Felicity may still be alive and Mia is her and Oliver’s daughter. But the show is still on thin ice with me because of them.

    The fight scene with Zoe and William tied up in chairs was great. That has got to be the worst position to be in during that much violence and it struck me as both terrifying and funny at the same time.

    Has Echo Kellum really left the show?

    Here is something that annoyed me. I was a little alarmed how dead-set Oliver was at first with William living with his grandparents. My initial reaction to learning they were still alive and mobile is "This is what should have happened all along." Granted, I don’t know how feasible it would have been when the family needed witness protection from Diaz, but once that situation settled, that should have been the place he went next instead of being forced to stay in Boarding School. The one thing I dislike about the grandparents is how rude they are to Oliver and Felicity. If they weren’t, I’d have no problem with the idea. But they strike me as the kind of people who would turn William against his father and stepmom out of of spite. First good thing about the flashforwards is that we learn that doesn’t actually happen.

    Flashforward speculation. It strikes me that these flashforwards may not box the show in the way I feared. Why? Because next year is Crisis On Infinite Earths. If things go REALLY bad, and the fans wind up hating the arc (I have already made clear that I do) they can retcon it with no problems. But that’s still a season away. I don’t look forward to them until then.

    Good week. Even the flashforwards. ****.

  45. Arrow "Emerald Archer"

    No reason whatsoever for Barry Allen to be interviewed for the doc. In fact, considering his alter ego, he should have declined even if they asked. But in real life they wouldn’t.

    I chalk it up to returning to your roots, since Barry debuted in season 2.

    Two weeks worth of stuff to talk about.

    The documentary angle would’ve worked better if:

    1. You don’t have a camera crew following Ollie, Dinah, et al around town.

    2. You can say the doc was already made, and is being screened for the body of the show, which would justify the flash forward at the end and Kelsey Grammer’s voice-over guest appearance.

    As it was, the creative staff opted to tie it to this week’s show, and the surprisingly one-&-done closing of Stanley Dover’s character arc. Having read Kevin Smith’s Star City Slayer arc in the books a few years back, I’d expected better. Like stringing it out an extra couple of weeks. Instead, Beth co-writes this episode, forgetting the depth in Stanley’s character that had been established in the first half of the season.

    Mia Smoak (Dearden in the books) is William’s half-sister, technically, but I am not digging her attitude. In the comics, Mia had HIV, don’t know if that’s the case here.

    Let’s remember that the flash-forwards, despite what Beth tells the fan press, represent one possible future instead of a definitive one. "Days of Future Past", this isn’t, even if it aspires to be.

  46. Kinda odd we’re hearing news of the actors who play techies taking leave from the CW shows. Winn’s return pushed back on Supergirl, Valdes is leaving Flash, now Kellum.

    I’d say its more coincidental than odd. Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if we see even more departures in the coming seasons (I legit expect Amell to leave at some point after next season).

    Admittedly tho, these departures basically amount to trimming the fat. I love Carlos as Vibe but the Flash cast has ballooned and much like Echo on Arrow, their skill set is redundant. I bet both are there for crisis on infinite earths.

  47. Apparantely since Curtis toook the DC job. I read Kellum wants to spend more time with his family. Kinda odd we’re hearing news of the actors who play techies taking leave from the CW shows. Winn’s return pushed back on Supergirl, Valdes is leaving Flash, now Kellum.

    I’d say its more coincidental than odd. Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if we see even more departures in the coming seasons (I legit expect Amell to leave at some point after next season).

    Admittedly tho, these departures basically amount to trimming the fat. I love Carlos as Vibe but the Flash cast has ballooned and much like Echo on Arrow, their skill set is redundant. I bet both are there for crisis on infinite earths.

  48. Arrow "Brothers And Sisters"

    On the surface I didn’t see too much wrong with the episode. And yet I was very unhappy by the end of it, which totally confuses me. I (should at least) only feel that way about the bad episodes. Have I outgrown this show? Or am I simply being unfair at this point? The second thing is the more likely thing, and the thing that bothers me more, but I cannot really help how I feel, and I haven’t given a positive review for something I didn’t actually like for awhile now. I’m no longer to go along to get along reviewer. Best I can do this week is figure out why I’m unsatisfied, and try to detail these reasons without refusing to give the show the benefit of the doubt.

    Let us begin.

    First problem is Dante, and the entire concept of Dante. I alternate between tolerating and liking the concept of Diaz. Season 6 was pretty ballsy to make the Big Bad of the season a nonsuperpowered guy we never heard of before, who usually uses his real name. And the conceit was that supposedly this character, who is the least flashy and memorable Ultimate Evil of all, is actually in reality the worst and most difficult to defeat. God bless Season 6, because I half-believed that nonsense premise myself. Partly due to Kirk Acevedo’s over the top and scary performance, and partly due to how much utter loathing Emily Bett Rickards was able to get across about him as Felicity. I took him as a threat because he wigged her out like no other character. But I stretched my suspension of disbelief to give Diaz the benefit of the doubt for half a season. That’s actually not an unfair ask of me for the show. Not really. I could do that for Diaz.

    The problem is the show being crazy enough to think I’d do the exact same thing for Dante. That benefit of the doubt, which was not actually betrayed with Diaz, at least not last season, is something I’d only give the show once, and only about one single character with that specific premise. The show cannot do the exact thing and say, "Oh, well THIS guy is so bad, Diaz fears him, so watch out." Especially if we’re just meeting him this episode. That’s not fair. And his connection to Emiko seems to be adding a complication to a season that I already feel is overcomplicated due to the flashforwards. I left the episode feeling unhappy that the show thinks I’d put up with that exact questionable plot twist twice.

    Do you know what gets me? I am one of the only Arrow fans I’ve seen online who actually put up with Diaz at all. Why on Earth after the negative reception the character received from the fans last year would the writers believe it was in the show’s best interest to deliver another character exactly like him in the following season? And this is spoken as a rare Arrow fan who sometimes liked the concept. I can’t imagine what someone who thinks Acevedo is talentless and hammy, and the show is laying it on thick with the threat the character represents must think.

    The future stuff was both interesting and annoying. The family drama at the beginning made me cringe on every level you can think of, and shows why the show is often badly written. But it had a couple of cool concepts. The idea of Felicity using obsolescence as an encryption code is outright clever. And I hate to break it to the dumb future characters. But the most likely scenario about the death of the witness and the coroner is NOT that somebody faked Felictiy’s death, kidnapped her, and killed anyone who could prove different. The most likely scenario is that Felicity faked her OWN death, and killed those people herself for the same reason. Occam’s Razor says that this conspiracy her kids are imagining is a lot smaller than they think.

    For the record, Oliver sucks. It’s good the show pointed out how uncool it was he took his sister’s mission out of her hands, but I don’t really think the show landed on why he did it. I understood it perfectly, but since Oliver didn’t, I don’t think the lesson was actually learned. Oliver did what he did because he’s a clueless man, who wants to fix the women in his life’s problems, without being asked. He took over driving the car and refuses to ask for directions. He only did something that foolish because he possesses a penis. That’s the only reason. Which is why it bothers me that Rene’s the one to tell him how uncool it was. Because I don’t think Rene understood the actual reason he did it. It’s nice that Rene is a sensitive enough guy to recognize it was wrong. But I would think Felicity or Emiko themselves could have correctly pointed out the inherent sexism built into his actions.

    The show didn’t outright say it in this episode, but both the scene of Oliver trying and failing to call William, and William in the future believing Oliver and Felicity never called him again, or wanted him, tells me pretty clearly that William’s grandparents absolutely suck. And considering he’s half-Queen, that makes all four of his grandparents utter monsters. It would be a wonder if a kid with blood that dirty would ever come out healthy.

    Speaking of the Queens, I found it very unlikely Oliver talking about how his parents instilled in him the value of family would be the thing to convince Emiko. Because Emiko WAS their family, and they disowned her. If anything that should have driven her off.

    Is Diaz dead? I hope so. Kirk Acevedo is a fun bad guy, but after betraying the Suicide Squad on their first freaking mission (which I predicted weeks ago would happen) it was very clear there was really nothing left for the show to do with him. It would be better if they did kill him off just then.

    Speaking of which, I can’t believe Lilah is arguing about John taking the blame for the Suicide Squad revival. It WAS his idea, done without her permission, and done in a way that forced her hand, and she couldn’t back out of. I think it is very weird that she thinks the responsibility is actually hers and that she should fall on her sword for her dumbass husband in the first place.

    Diggle’s dumb, but he’s not all bad. When he says Dante was the mission, but Diaz was the priority, I was like, "Aww!"

    And finally we get to Emiko and Dante. And that "twist" goes back to why I’m unhappy about this episode to begin with. It’s because as a twist it’s bogus. I guarantee you, if I rewatch the season next year, this episode and that scene won’t hold up to any sort of scrutiny. They wanted to make it seem a bit ambiguous for the viewer. But you can’t do a scene like that and make it ambiguous. It won’t work.

    If Emiko is evil, and plans to betray Oliver, I can pick apart that twist. She says that Oliver finally trusts her. Well, if that was the goal, she could have reached out to him herself in the previous episodes, and not made him jump through hoops. If Emiko is evil, the scene will not play.

    If Emiko is good, and playing Dante in a sting, I can pick apart that twist. Her actress’s performance suggested she was genuinely surprised to see him, and didn’t expect to see him show up at all. If Emiko is Virtuous Xanatos, the scene will not play.

    If Emiko IS aligned with Dante, but simply doesn’t know who he is or what he’s done, I can pick apart that twist. She’s the new freaking Green Arrow. How am I supposed to be impressed with someone that dumb in hindsight? If Emiko is a patsy, the scene will not play.

    And that my friends is why unlikely betrayal scenarios are almost never satisfying in fiction, and why they never seem to hold up in hindsight. Because the writers are trying to hedge their bets, they are taking a scene that is pretty clear in what it shows us, and asking us to ignore or not think too hard about the things it IS showing us. And that’s why that trope doesn’t work when the show refuses to commit to which scenario it is, and peg down whether or not the betrayal is genuine immediately. Because they are trying to leave open the possibility of all scenarios for the viewer, they are acting like what they showed us is more up for interpretation than it is. No matter which of the three things it winds up being, that scene introducing it was badly written, unfair, and does not hold up to scrutiny.

    I think after writing all that down, I kind of get why I didn’t like this episode, even though it wasn’t bad, and I couldn’t see too many surface problems wrong with it. It’s that it felt like the concepts it introduced for the future would not actually be consistent with what this specific episode claims they were. The entire episode was made to be retconned in many various ways. And I don’t like watching storytelling like that. I love Twin Peaks, and the fact that I never get any answers. But Twin Peaks holds up because the answers I have come up with in my own head are mostly plausible and can work with what David Lynch showed me. I can work stuff out for myself. That’s actually fun. But the whole Emiko / Dante thing is something I already smell a huge narrative rat about, and that is why I didn’t enjoy an episode that didn’t actually suck. **1/2.

  49. FB-

    I’ll remind you that this whole nonsense of Emiko and Dante is parallel to Nora being gullible enough to work with Eobard Thawne on The Flash. That said, I think both arcs will end the same way.

    Is Diaz really gone? I don’t think so.

    Who threw the lighter and switched the sprinkler water with gasoline? Was it Laurel? Was it Dante or a lieutenant? I guess we’ll know in the next episode.

    Flash forwards on this show distract from the main plot. Why? Because Beth Schwartz is a worse showrunner than Marc Guggenheim was. Doesn’t know how to tie things together in such a way that it makes sense, instead expecting the Crisis adaptation in the fall to explain everything. We’re not that stupid, Beth, though I wonder about studio people like you sometimes.

  50. Bronze Tiger says Diaz is dead.
    Although he could be working with Diaz and lying to Laurel.

    Arrow Cave is back in operation. I don’t where they got money or the time to fix it?
    Alot of times I feel there is missing dialog or a scene in these CW shows because I feel I am missing something.

  51. Arrow "Training Day"

    There were a lot of things wrong with that, but my impression was still mostly favorable. The way Oliver smiled at the end of the teaser was so wonderful and infectious that I was totally willing to give the episode a TON of slack.

    I think both the SDPD AND Team Arrow did things wrong tonight. I agree with Dinah that if they are deputized, the vigilantes have to go through proper protocols, and can’t go around torturing people for confessions. Because not only do their actions have legal standing on whether or not the perp is arrested and put on trial, but they also represent the police department as a whole. On the other hand, it’s ridiculous to take away the costumes and weapon because those are the vigilantes’ entire selling points to begin with. Without them they are just regular cops, and their skills and meaning to the city are far bigger than that.

    Liked the stuff with William and Mia for once.

    Interesting we got another idea about who Conner Hawke might be. Maybe he’s John’s kid, but he could also be Bronze Tiger’s.

    Emiko didn’t deny killing Diaz, did she? I think Laurel is overestimating how mad Oliver would be in learning the truth. He’d probably thank her for taking the decision out of Felicity’s hands. Also I don’t see how trying to out Laurel as Black Siren would even work as a threat. Team Arrow already knows the truth. I suppose she could go to the SDPD, but Siren Laurel was uncommonly cunning for the past couple of seasons in that I’m pretty sure the cops aren’t even aware she existed. Unlike Emiko killing Diaz, there are no witnesses willing to come forward, and no proof Laurel was Siren.

    Dinah doing the whole "You’re under arrest thing" was painfully cheesy.

    Yeah, this episode wasn’t perfect. But I still liked it. ***1/2.

  52. Interesting we got another idea about who Conner Hawke might be. Maybe he’s John’s kid, but he could also be Bronze Tiger’s.

    Emiko didn’t deny killing Diaz, did she? I think Laurel is overestimating how mad Oliver would be in learning the truth. He’d probably thank her for taking the decision out of Felicity’s hands. Also I don’t see how trying to out Laurel as Black Siren would even work as a threat. Team Arrow already knows the truth. I suppose she could go to the SDPD, but Siren Laurel was uncommonly cunning for the past couple of seasons in that I’m pretty sure the cops aren’t even aware she existed. Unlike Emiko killing Diaz, there are no witnesses willing to come forward, and no proof Laurel was Siren.

    Didn’t Connor Hawke already refer to himself as Diggle’s adopted son in the flashforwards though? As for Emiko killing Diaz, Felicity already made peace with the idea of letting Diaz live when Emiko killed him, and up until recently Oliver was trying to get Emiko to operate within the law. And as for the Black Siren thing, I saw it more as "why would they believe a word you said after what you did to them" as opposed to "I’ll tell the whole world what you are".

  53. James Midas is the sort of high-pocketed, white collar weasel that Ollie would work on taking down by himself in the books back in the day.

    Of course there are going to be rough spots, but the way it sounded after Midas was finally pinched legit, it seems Mayor Pollard isn’t exactly on the up and up herself.

    So Emiko was the one who whacked Diaz. Did she learn about Laurel on her own, or did Dante have that intel?

    I’m starting to think everything converges at season’s end to set up the short season final year.

  54. Mm, so it’s Eden Corps all along. Eh. I guess that wasn’t just a throw away appearance of them in season 4 of the Flash but I think I missed one or two episodes of Arrow before tonight.

    That was a neat tidbit with Hawke revealing he was an agent of Knightwatch. In the comics, that was unit of the DEO comprised of armored agents. Hmm, kind of interesting if the DEO exists in Earth-1 after the appearance of Earth-1 Alex Danvers during the messed up reality in the crossover.

  55. That was a neat tidbit with Hawke revealing he was an agent of Knightwatch. In the comics, that was unit of the DEO comprised of armored agents. Hmm, kind of interesting if the DEO exists in Earth-1 after the appearance of Earth-1 Alex Danvers during the messed up reality in the crossover.

    Didn’t Supergirl imply that a DEO was being created for Earth-1 after the Dominator invasion?

    Honestly this episode was a bit of a mixed bag for me. For example, the fights Mia was in varied. When she went in to rescue Felicity, honestly it felt like she wasn’t hitting them hard enough for them to go down the way they did, while her other fight scene I had zero issues with whatsoever.

    And then there’s Felicity. This entire season Felicity had been portrayed in the flashforwards as this person who went crazy wanting to destroy the city who only recently saw the error of her ways, only for this episode to reveal that she was undercover the whole time. I don’t even have a problem with the idea of her being undercover, but I feel like it could’ve been handled better, unless I’m somehow missing something from earlier in the season.

    One small nitpick to round things out. How did Mia not notice that picture was behind the apple she was shooting at?

  56. Didn’t Supergirl imply that a DEO was being created for Earth-1 after the Dominator invasion?

    Great memory! At the end of Legends "Invasion!". Yeah, Supergirl mentioned she told President Brayden about Earth-38’s DEO and she thought it was an excellent idea.

    Honestly this episode was a bit of a mixed bag for me. For example, the fights Mia was in varied. When she went in to rescue Felicity, honestly it felt like she wasn’t hitting them hard enough for them to go down the way they did, while her other fight scene I had zero issues with whatsoever.

    Yeah, some of that seemed like the actress was slowing down and telegraphing her punches at times when Mia fought the guards upon entering the sublevel. But the fight in Dale’s office was better, imo.

  57. Arrow "Star City 2040"

    Honestly, I have been relentless in my ragging of the season because of the flashforwards, but this episode relieved a LOT of my tension about them. What annoys me is that the tension raised earlier in the season (that Felicity had turned evil and then died) wasn’t actually necessary because it wasn’t true. I suppose TV shows love misleading viewers like that, and consider it part of the rollercoaster. Consider me a viewer who doesn’t like being misled, and that I don’t think I’m being done a huge favor in hindsight just because Felicity is alive and good. I probably will not have as much problem with the future stuff as before. But the earlier part of the season still sucked for the exact same reasons I previously said it did, whether it worked out after all or not.

    My other complaint about the flashforwards is that it made the present stuff seem irrelevant. Unfortunately, that is still true, and I still think the format weakened the show greatly, even if the storyline wasn’t as bad as I feared. It’s the concept itself that did the most damage.

    Here is how Rene should have known there would be no evacuation: The plan wouldn’t have been secret if there was. That sort of thing takes a lot of time and planning, and if it were actually happening, that company would be trying to get people used to the idea as early as possible. That sort of thing is broadcast far and wide, if only for safety concerns. It is not the sort of thing done in secret. Rene is a dope.

    I loved William huggng Felicity. I just did. Screw Mia. She sucks.

    I liked that a lot, and I didn’t expect to, so I’m giving it a higher than usual grade. ****1/2.

  58. Ok, this felt like a back-door pilot for a spin-off.

    After a couple of appearances, I don’t like Kevin Dale. Another white collar weasel who needed to be taken down quickly, but lingers like a bad rash.

    I’ve a feeling Rene won’t survive 2040…..