YTV to air "Epilogue"? (Edit: Aired, SPOILERS)

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I dunno. I just kinda thought .. black guy .. Jack ... Black Jack??

I'm guessing Jack transformed into a Dwayne McDuffie look-a-like?

Nah, it doesn't really look like any McDuffie pictures I can find on the internet.

 

[b.t.]

I watched the episode this morning before work, and what with the hour-long drive there, I had a lot of time to think about the episode. I had guessed it was more or less Terry going over potential scenerios in his head before actually doing anything, partly because of the Dana thing, but mostly due to how well Terry and Bruce were getting along at the end. I don't think they would have been as civil to each other had the scene in the Batcave actually taken place.

note too that "kent" didn't call saying "what the hell are you talkin about, quitting the league?", he just wanted to talk to terry about a case....also, the clock (a "terry's p.o.v." close-up of which we held on a REAL LONG TIME) isn't broken....

sure, bruce COULD have just had the clock repaired (and been too "cool" to acknowledge the embarrassingly emotional pyrotechnics of the earlier scenes), dana MIGHT have just been thinking "yeah yeah, it's the 'superhero dumps the girlfriend for her own protection' bit again, third time this year"...and superman probably doesn't take terry's "i'm quitting the league" anymore seriously than bruce's old "i'm just a part-timer" schtick...the story works either way, whether the b&w scenes are terry's worst-case scenario imaginings or actual flashbacks....

 

[b.t.]

I'm guessing Jack transformed into a Dwayne McDuffie look-a-like?

unless you can think of ANOTHER black guy closely assiciated with JLU (and also SAMURAI JACK)....

 

[Style]

sure, bruce COULD have just had the clock repaired (and been too "cool" to acknowledge the embarrassingly emotional pyrotechnics of the earlier scenes),

I wouldn't put it past him. This is what I thought happened initially.

dana MIGHT have just been thinking "yeah yeah, it's the 'superhero dumps the girlfriend for her own protection' bit again, third time this year

I like this version of Dana more than the Spidey movie's MJ. (Because this version of the relationship doesn't feel so "Daweson's Creek/Smallville...")

"...and superman probably doesn't take terry's "i'm quitting the league" anymore seriously than bruce's old "i'm just a part-timer" schtick...the story works either way, whether the b&w scenes are terry's worst-case scenario imaginings or actual flashbacks....

I guess you're saying that the pre-cred sequance doesn't make it clearer. Oh well.

 

[Style]

unless you can think of ANOTHER black guy closely assiciated with JLU (and also SAMURAI JACK)....

Wait, so Dwayne's the "Token Black Guy" on the staff? Hmm...

 

[StClair]

I hope people don't think of me now as some hating, nit-picky person.

Trust me: this latest outburst hasn't changed my opinion of you at all.

 

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

One thing puzzles me about this episode. Do the costumes in the cases look a bit more shadowy? Just a thought.

 

[Bleu Unicorn]

One thing puzzles me about this episode. Do the costumes in the cases look a bit more shadowy? Just a thought.

Perhaps in the ten or so years since Batman Beyond Bruce decided to replace the cases and lightbulbs, thus creating more shadow. Seriously enough, Greg, sometimes there isn't meaning to every last thing.

 

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

Perhaps in the ten or so years since Batman Beyond Bruce decided to replace the cases and lightbulbs, thus creating more shadow. Seriously enough, Greg, sometimes there isn't meaning to every last thing.

It was just an observation...

 

[DisneyBoy]

Trust me: this latest outburst hasn't changed my opinion of you at all.

Ouch! The cold sting of harsh truth. Actually, I don't consider any of my posts outbursts, so I guess this is only your truth StClair...

Just to be on the safe side though...*tosses roses around to the various posters * Make love not war brothers and sisters! For the love of Gaea! *Hugs everyone, especially StClair*

Originally Posted by b.t.
unless you can think of ANOTHER black guy closely assiciated with JLU (and also SAMURAI JACK)....

I didn't think of that one until you mentionned it. Clever, clever people you are. Now the real question is...which one of you guys is the queen?

 

[DisneyBoy]

*scoff* I know what a drag queen is GMahler...I was just wondering if someone on the creative team is one

 

[BeastBoyWonder]

Well, I've kinda got mixed feelings about this episode. McDuffie's easily my favorite JL writer, I've always loved episodes that Timm's had writing credit on (Apokolips... Now! anyone?), and I've made no secret that I love JLU Beyond. Consequently, given that my expectations were very high, this episode ended up feeling way too... comic-booky.

One of the things I love about the Batman mythos, especially in his animated incarnations, is that the defining moments of his development and existance are very sensical and elegant. Bruce's parents getting murdered. Dick coming from a circus. Terry feeling guilt because he wasn't around when his father died. While I love comics, sometimes things are very overly complicated, completely implausible, and continuity heavy. On the other hand, the defining moments of Terry's life avoided these pitfalls and told a simple story that symbolically linked him to the Batman legacy. He wasn't destined to become Batman, it just happened because of the kind of person he was and kind of situation he was in. This redefinition of what he essentially is just doesn't feel right on a certain level and kind of reeks of coming from a comic as opposed to the more elegant retellings we find in the TAS, but I just can't put my finger on exactly what that is.

The reason why I don't hate this episode is that it doesn't detract from Terry's individuality because it doesn't really change any essential elements of who he is and why his life became what it did, which is one of the central themes of this episode. Warren and Mary McGinnis are still the parents that raised him, etc. I really like Terry as an individual and he is worthy as a character without being connected genetically to Bruce Wayne, and the episode would have been much more problematic if it tried to justify Terry's existance based on that connection.

That being said, I still think a better approach would be to put more emphasis on how Terry is different than Bruce because he doesn't push away the people he loves in the same manner, and I suppose in that sense having Bruce as a biological father aids the story in that regard, to show that he doesn't need Bruce as a father to be worthwhile or to be a carbon copy of him. Still, having Terry be a biological byproduct of Bruce by way of using nanotech to rewrite the content in Warren's sperm defies plausibility a bit and doesn't really feel right in light of the simplicity and the elegance of Terry's story as an individual. Sure science has advanced quite a bit and Batman comes in contact with all kinds of crazy and implausible stuff in his adventures with the Justice League, but that's kind of separate from what fundamentally defines him as Batman.

I'm still not totally sure how to articulate it, but that's sort of my problem with the story. However, overall it was certainly an edgy, surprising, and thought-provoking episode that was a valiant attempt at trying to wrap everything up together thematically and it did a pretty good job. Its not how I would have done things, but its interesting nonetheless. I think I'll grow to appreciate it more upon future viewings. The fact that the "status quo" was in fact maintained and Terry's individuality preserved kind of negates any problem I otherwise would have had with the episode. I really liked the bit at the end where it was kind of accepted that Clark respected Terry's insight/observations/judgment on things he was working on -- little things like that to show how far Terry has come.

Oh yeah, and I really want to see a JL Beyond.

 

[Bruce Kent]

I just like that Bruce isn't really alone in the end because he has a son and beyond that his name doesn't die.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

WOW! What an excellent episode!

I rarely post here anymore but I had to come back to hear about what you fellas thought about EPILOGUE.

I love it! Best JLU episode yet! It works as a series finale. I love the ON LEATHER WINGS refereance, (how it ends the same way it began). I honestly don't know why they didn't save this episode for last...So cool. The next season of JLU has a lot to live up to.

 

[b.t.]

Also, didn't they say in the "On Leather Wings" commentary that Kevin Conroy voiced the policeman in the blimp for the very first line of the first show? If that was the case, it didn't sound like Conroy in "Epilogue". I'd assume it was though.

that's kevin as the "skycop" in EPILOGUE, all right.....we thought it would be appropos to have him say the very last line spoken in a DCAU episode (though technically clive revill said the very FIRST line, "this is gotham air one reporting in, things are actually quiet for once", so that kinda blows the coda thing somewhat, but still)....

 

[Ms. Kitty]

This episode needed more, I DEMAND MORE!!! more BB Bruce, more foxxy terry, matt, his mom (I wonder if Terry will tell her) um, more foxxy Terry...

 

[Good Ol' Batmanuel!]

You musta dug those big sideburns, huh?

 

[b.t.]

I just like that Bruce isn't really alone in the end because he has a son and beyond that his name doesn't die.

bingo....see, ultimately, THAT'S what the episode is all about (or, at least that's what we INTENDED it to be about)....all the artsy-fartsy fantasy/flashbacks, and the cameos and in-jokes and even the big, "soul-shattering revelation" are basically window-dressing....what i like most about the episode is that it provides an honest "happy ending" for batman, without being overly sappy and maudlin...especially once you realize the "flashbacks" never in fact happened, it's clear that bruce has willingly "retired" completely from being batman, confident that terry will carry on his tradition, and his beloved gotham will always be protected.... note that he says superman called, wanting TERRY'S opinion on a case , NOT BRUCE'S ....the idea being that bruce doesn't actively participate in crime-fighting anymore, not even in an advisory capacity...he probably doesn't even monitor terry on the com-link anymore (oh yeah, that was another -- admittedly probably too subtle -- "fantasy" hint: bruce is wearing WAY too much silent-movie-villain eyeshadow in the batcave sequences)...the "soup" bit implies that he's taken on the "alfred" role, and though he nags terry about the soup going cold, he seems pretty content with his lot overall.....

and as for terry, he CHANGES THE BATMAN PARADIGM....whether he's bruce's son or his clone or whatever, that's beside the point....as waller tells him, bottom-line, he's his own man....he decides at the end to be batman on his own terms, "screw it, i'm gonna break the rules, defy destiny -- and probably defy bruce too, i bet he wouldn't be too keen on the idea -- i'm gonna marry the girl i love and STILL be batman"....

anyhow, that's my two cents.....i'm not gonna argue with anyone who doesn't like this ep, hell, we KNEW it would be polarizing when we wrote it...and sure, i realize it goes WAY over the heads of our core demographic, but i still think it was worth doing, just this once....relieved though to see there's more "thumbs up" than "thumbs down" (so far, anyway).....

 

[Comic Book Boy]

bingo....see, ultimately, THAT'S what the episode is all about (or, at least that's what we INTENDED it to be about)....all the artsy-fartsy fantasy/flashbacks, and the cameos and in-jokes and even the big, "soul-shattering revelation" are basically window-dressing....what i like most about the episode is that it provides an honest "happy ending" for batman, without being overly sappy and maudlin...especially once you realize the "flashbacks" never in fact happened, it's clear that bruce has willingly "retired" completely from being batman, confident that terry will carry on his tradition, and his beloved gotham will always be protected.... note that he says superman called, wanting TERRY'S opinion on a case , NOT BRUCE'S ....the idea being that bruce doesn't actively participate in crime-fighting anymore, not even in an advisory capacity...he probably doesn't even monitor terry on the com-link anymore (oh yeah, that was another -- admittedly probably too subtle -- "fantasy" hint: bruce is wearing WAY too much silent-movie-villain eyeshadow in the batcave sequences)...the "soup" bit implies that he's taken on the "alfred" role, and though he nags terry about the soup going cold, he seems pretty content with his lot overall.....

and as for terry, he CHANGES THE BATMAN PARADIGM....whether he's bruce's son or his clone or whatever, that's beside the point....as waller tells him, bottom-line, he's his own man....he decides at the end to be batman on his own terms, "screw it, i'm gonna break the rules, defy destiny -- and probably defy bruce too, i bet he wouldn't be too keen on the idea -- i'm gonna marry the girl i love and STILL be batman"....

anyhow, that's my two cents.....i'm not gonna argue with anyone who doesn't like this ep, hell, we KNEW it would be polarizing when we wrote it...and sure, i realize it goes WAY over the heads of our core demographic, but i still think it was worth doing, just this once....relieved though to see there's more "thumbs up" than "thumbs down" (so far, anyway).....

Yeah. I am always happy when you make episodes that appeal to the fans...It just rocks...Even though ur general audience might not appreciate them.

 

[Dwayne McDuffie]

I have the feeling that if McDuffie had not disclosed the status of the black and white sequences, we'd be currently debating them.

Actually, A guy on my Delphi Forum disclosed it, I just confirmed. I thought it was probably too subtle and I was surprised that so many people got it. Shows what I know.