"Young Justice: Outsiders" Season Three Talkback (Spoilers)

[Yojimbo]

Yeah, like...what was even the point of that? And why was it so loud? Do Conner and M'Gann have an outhouse or something ?

I thought Vic was using the toilet in the Bio-RV.

I really liked his voice but he does sound a little older then a teenager .

The voice of a teenager can change in a few years...

The only female Rocket Red i recall in comics was called Ivana from Superman #689 who went out on a date with Mon-El.

Thanks, I'll look into that. I was starting to think she was a gender flip of Josef Denisovich but it was such a drastic change to the name, I didn't think that was it.

 

[Nygma]

I would like to see more of the Will/Artemis relationship. Yes, they are both young attractive people living together and raising a child together, but what is it exactly about each other that they like? I could write an essay about why Wally and Artemis were attracted to each other in season one. In Outsiders, all we are given is that scene where Lian and Will are being gross at the table and Artemis stops to give us a "that is so cute" look. Is that the basis of the relationship? Are we really supposed to believe that these two people are in love?

A relationship between Lian's Aunt & Father isn't something to be strived for morally IMO.

But here's my take on Artemis's attraction to Will.

Let's just say Dick Grayson isn't the only one looking for a Wally West substitute.

Notice the first time we see her smile at him, Will has his mouth open full of food. Now what red head that Artemis knows would that remind her of?

In Endgame there was a scene cut from the episode where her & Wally in Paris talk about having their lives together & being heroes too. Even though they originally wanted to get out of the life alive, they missed being heroes. This scene was cut because Greg & Brandon felt it telegraphed Wally's demise (or "demise") too much.

The domestic life Artemis has now is more than likely close to what she wanted with Wally. A house, dog, taking care of a kid. Artemis is trying to have her cake & eat it with this life. Subconsciously she misses Wally, and Will in this domestic light in some ways might remind her of Wally.

In Will's case, when he smiled at Artemis it was when she was being attentive to Lian LIKE A MOTHER. Wouldn't that remind her of Jade?

As long as this eventually gets portrayed narratively as something that shouldn't be rooted for, I can accept this story line. But no one bringing up that this is Lian's Aunt & Father and how wrong that would be is kind of getting on my nerves. Artemis pointing out Will is her brother in law is a start, but it's not enough IMO.

Anyways I'll be shocked if that doesn't end up being the case.

 

[#TeamMike]

Not sure how I feel about Will and Artemis.

If people were angry about the Batman and Barbara romance, this is probably worse.

 

[Yojimbo]

Well, I'm at the point where I feel like Will should get on a dating app and stop sponging help off his ex's sister so she can move on with her life, too. Unless they're setting this up to the point where Will is killed off and Artemis is left with Lian.

EDIT: Update

The only female Rocket Red i recall in comics was called Ivana from Superman #689 who went out on a date with Mon-El.

When in doubt, spend too much time than you're willing to admit reading through old Captain Atom comics that Greg Weisman co-wrote. In Issue #31, Captain Atom helps Rocket Red/Dmitri with Renegade Reds, renegade Rocket Reds who have a micro-chip that turns them nuts. One of the 3 is named Ilyich (but was a dude). As the issue goes on, Cap is badly hurt so Dmitri takes him to the recover with the one person he trusts in Moscow, a woman named Olga who was forced to help develop those micro chips. So it appears this character in "Leverage" is an amalgam of 2 characters.

 

[PapaGreg]

You know while people are talking about Lian's weirdly adult's voice I'm kinda unnerved how her head and face looks like a teenager

So you're expecting characters to be all knowing and infallible about these things?

What information was there to suggest Godfrey's words weren't hot air?

Also her job is to use the suicide squad in the ways her superiors demand it. Her job is not to find out if any superstitions have validity, unless they get in the way.
Also how do you know how much Waller was up to between seasons 1-3 to know for sure that she should've known about JL's covert ops team?

This is Waller we're talking about she probably knows Superman's Netflix's history so its little far fetch that she hasn't at least heard about them since The Team aren't really that subtle even though they are a covert op group

Not sure how I feel about Will and Artemis.

If people were angry about the Batman and Barbara romance, this is probably worse.

Nah, the age gap isn't that bad and there is no father-daughter subtext

 

[RoyalRubble]

So, first impressions on the new episodes-

"Influence"

It was cool seeing more of the Justice League. Especially Hawkman & Hwkwoman, and Guy Gardner. The latter got kind of annoying as his scenes played out but I think that was supposed to be the point. Hro Talak was probably the biggest surprise here.

The Female Furies scene was nice. I liked Big Barda and presume we'll see more of her in the future. Hopefully Mister Miracle will be around, too.

The G. Gordon Godfrey stuff was getting a bit obnoxious but I liked the animosity between him and his guests, and it did help get the story to move along nicely I guess. Granny Goodness was also kind of annoying but I liked how Gar stood up to her.

Pretty amusing bits included in all of this, like Godfrey's "No relation" comment in regards to Gordon, "Don't call us sidekicks!" or "Whelmed". Never expected Superman to be the one who use that term. "Great Scott" was also a fun one.

"Leverage"

Pretty cool fight between the new team and the Suicide Squad. With the Rocket Red Brigade in there, too. Nice mix of characters for the Squad, especially Manta given his presence here lead to some interesting encounters with Artemis and Kaldur.

It would be nice if Red Star showed up at some point as well. I think it was theorized before it would be funny if he appeared but used his original codename as Starfire, just so fans would expect Koriand'r instead of him.

The Metahuman Youth Center was a nice idea. I liked this take on Windfall.

For some reason, I thought they would tie Captain Boomerang into Halo's origin here. It wouldn't have been that farfetched, I guess. But Halo not wanting to tell Brion anything about this new memory will probably result in more tragedy.

"Illusion of Control"

I liked the focus on Gar and Perdita, and some of the other younger metas (most of them being couples). Traci kind of annoyed me at times but it's nice to see more of her and her powers did come in handy.

I read somewhere that if you slow down the scene where Bart is greeting the kids, you can see him kissing Ed on the cheek.

The fight with Vertigo and Henchy was pretty well staged. The "Sugar, spice and everything nice" line reminded me of The Powerpuff Girls. I also thought it was hilarious seeing Virgil's reaction to Devastation and Psimon.

Gar starting a more public team of heroes is an interesting development. Wonder how things will go for them, and who else might be willing to join.

No real comment on Artemis and Will. Even if something develops there I doubt I will be a fan of this pairing.

Also, not much to say about Terra. I presume that will change soon enough...

Cool other moments like Helga Jace plotting something, or the emotional scene between Artemis and her mother. Artemis reminsicing about Wally in the first episode was pretty bittersweet, too.

All in all, a pretty solid batch of new episodes.

 

[Nygma]

You know while people are talking about Lian's weirdly adult's voice I'm kinda unnerved how her head and face looks like a teenager



This is Waller we're talking about she probably knows Superman's Netflix's history so its little far fetch that she hasn't at least heard about them since The Team aren't really that subtle even though they are a covert op group

You assume this Amanda Waller lives up to your desired hype.

 

[PapaGreg]

You assume this Amanda Waller lives up to your desired hype.

If she doesn't know Wonder Woman's favorite ice cream then she doesn't deserve to be called Amanda Waller.

But real talk though with all the crap The Team pulled and her interacting with supervillians you think superpowered teenage black ops would've came up from time to time just saying its kinda weird.

 

[Fone Bone]

So you're expecting characters to be all knowing and infallible about these things?

What information was there to suggest Godfrey's words weren't hot air?

Also her job is to use the suicide squad in the ways her superiors demand it. Her job is not to find out if any superstitions have validity, unless they get in the way.
Also how do you know how much Waller was up to between seasons 1-3 to know for sure that she should've known about JL's covert ops team?

On JLU Waller knew Batman was Bruce Wayne. This version is far inferior if she doesn't even know the Young Justice team exists.

 

[Nygma]

If she doesn't know Wonder Woman's favorite ice cream then she doesn't deserve to be called Amanda Waller.

But real talk though with all the crap The Team pulled and her interacting with supervillians you think superpowered teenage black ops would've came up from time to time just saying its kinda weird.

Again you're assuming an awful lot, like how long Task Force X has been operating.

On JLU Waller knew Batman was Bruce Wayne. This version is far inferior if she doesn't even know the Young Justice team exists.

You're comparing apples to oranges. JLU Waller had access to a vast amount more resources than this Waller does. Not to mention what she's allowed to do by the us government on this show is far more limited.

 

[Yojimbo]

Some more tidbits I noticed in Leverage

J. Anson Schwartz looks a heck of lot like DC Comics writer/editor Julius Schwartz.

Lian calls Artemis "Aunty Mouse" -- I guess because she can't fully pronounce "Arte-mis" so she interprets the "mis" as "mouse."

Verhoyansk was one of the levels in the Young Justice Legacy video game. This time it uses the VLAT timezone or Vladivostok Time (UTC +10) whereas in the game, it used the Omsk Summer Time (OMSST) timezone and took place in February.

The base is known as Area-52 which in the comics was more synonymous with the American version used by Eiling and the Ultramarine Corps in the late 90s JLA comics.

Around the 7:40 mark, when Beast Boy's contact HUD shows files on Black Manta, Captain Boomerang, and Monsieur Mallah; Black Manta has some interesting stuff like he's classified as an Ocean Cartel Leader and has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Beast Boy uses the form of that Rannian creature he met at the start of Invasion last season.

Black Manta refers to Rick Flag when requesting extraction.

When Mist returns to her clothes, Leslie Willis refers to her as "Andy." Most have assumed she's a take on Nash, the daughter of the original Mist in the comics. But "Andy Murphy" was an alias used by the original Mist.

Aquaman mentions the warden of Belle Reve is Economos, John Economos was the warden in the comics during the start of the Suicide Squad comics.

 

[Magmaster12]

This is probably the least contrived version of the Suicide Squad that I've ever seen. The Government actually has an established reason to not rely on the Justice League and the characters are ones we've seen before, and it's a mission that actually makes sense. I can't help but wonder if any other villains were on that mission that got murdered.

It's likely The Team was spying because they had to consider if Red Rocket was proper for Justice League membership, I imagine that's the reason why more international heroes like Fire and Ice have joined the team during the gap.

Also this is now my favorite interpretation of Guy Gardner.

 

[Frontier]

EDIT: Update
When in doubt, spend too much time than you're willing to admit reading through old Captain Atom comics that Greg Weisman co-wrote. In Issue #31, Captain Atom helps Rocket Red/Dmitri with Renegade Reds, renegade Rocket Reds who have a micro-chip that turns them nuts. One of the 3 is named Ilyich (but was a dude). As the issue goes on, Cap is badly hurt so Dmitri takes him to the recover with the one person he trusts in Moscow, a woman named Olga who was forced to help develop those micro chips. So it appears this character in "Leverage" is an amalgam of 2 characters.

Hey, if you wrote for DC comics and got to spearhead your own DC cartoon, you would probably use your own stuff in interesting ways too .

The Female Furies scene was nice. I liked Big Barda and presume we'll see more of her in the future. Hopefully Mister Miracle will be around, too.

I'm actually curious about the Mister Miracle situation since his history intersecting with Barda when they're young is generally a big part of both characters, but if it was a factor I'm not sure Barda would still be with the Furies or acting the way she is .

I guess the Scott/Orion switch might still have happened but this version of Scott never met Barda, so she stuck with the Furies.

For some reason, I thought they would tie Captain Boomerang into Halo's origin here. It wouldn't have been that farfetched, I guess. But Halo not wanting to tell Brion anything about this new memory will probably result in more tragedy.

As sleazy as Captain Boomerang is, I don't think human trafficking would be that far off base for him .

Gar starting a more public team of heroes is an interesting development. Wonder how things will go for them, and who else might be willing to join.

I could see Wonder Girl joining them. I mean, she has seniority on the Team now but she's always seemed like an odd fit for a covert ops team.

Beast Boy uses the form of that Rannian creature he met at the start of Invasion last season.

I wondered what that was. Is this the first time he's transformed into a non Earth animal ?

When Mist returns to her clothes, Leslie Willis refers to her as "Andy." Most have assumed she's a take on Nash, the daughter of the original Mist in the comics. But "Andy Murphy" was an alias used by the original Mist.

I was thinking to myself when Mist started using her powers and left her clothes...does that mean she's practically naked when she uses her powers outside her villain costume ?

So she might not be the Mist's daughter but a genuine gender-flip of the Golden Age Mist. Or maybe she's trying to hide her identity? Could go either way .

This is probably the least contrived version of the Suicide Squad that I've ever seen. The Government actually has an established reason to not rely on the Justice League and the characters are ones we've seen before, and it's a mission that actually makes sense. I can't help but wonder if any other villains were on that mission that got murdered.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't have Deadshot providing backup to be honest.

It's likely The Team was spying because they had to consider if Red Rocket was proper for Justice League membership, I imagine that's the reason why more international heroes like Fire and Ice have joined the team during the gap.

The Team didn't have any idea they were spying on something involving the Rocket Red program until they got there. Once they realized it they knew they didn't have any reason to be there.

 

[RoyalRubble]

I missed it but apparently in "Illusion of Control", they had a nod to Star Wars: Rebels, with a character voiced by Steve Blum saying "Karabast". Weisman also worked on the show (only for the 1st season, I think).

And in regards to the "Sugar, spice & everything nice" line, Tommy Terror previously used the "Snips, snails & puppy dog tails" last season.

 

[Frontier]

I missed it but apparently in "Illusion of Control", they had a nod to Star Wars: Rebels, with a character voiced by Steve Blum saying "Karabast". Weisman also worked on the show (only for the 1st season, I think).

And in regards to the "Sugar, spice & everything nice" line, Tommy Terror previously used the "Snips, snails & puppy dog tails" last season.

I wonder if that means Weisman was the one who came up with Zeb's catchphrase or just wanted to reference one of his old shows ?

 

[Light Lucario]

I thought that these episodes were pretty good. It was interesting to see more of the Justice League. Even though the main appeal of Young Justice is seeing the younger heroes get the spotlight, a spin-off focusing on this universes' Justice League still sounds pretty interesting. Since they've been in space for so long, I wonder if Superman knows that he has a son with Lois. I'm still kind of amazed that was just glossed over, especially when I'm sure that Conner would want to help out while Superman is away. Getting to see Guy was interesting. He was smug, cocky and annoying, but he was still competent and helpful to the team despite all of that.

Obviously, the heroes couldn't save the kidnapped meta humans right now, but it gave them more insights as to how they keep fighting against people from Earth. Seeing Granny Goodness in a fight was pretty cool. She has been working primarily through her public appearance on Earth. Beast Boy's anger towards her was understandable. He did nearly die from her goggles, but at the same time, letting the villain know what he's onto her was incredibly stupid. He doesn't know what Granny Goodness is exactly and being more confrontational only made her more determined to make it harder for Beast Boy to work as a super hero. The smarter plan would have been to keep a friendly act with Granny and then proceed to do whatever work he wanted to do as a superhero.

The Team taking on the Suicide Squad was pretty cool. I was hoping that they were done with killing Halo every few episodes, but apparently not. I didn't really think much of the Team not being well known even among the villains, but it is a bit strange considering how long they've been doing this. Not to mention they've had plenty of encounters with noteworthy villains. They might have Aquaman fight off against his father again since he's a member of the Suicide Quad too.

Halo learning about what Gabriel did was pretty intense. While she wasn't involved with that decision technically, it was understandable that she felt responsible. There's a good chance that Gabriel didn't know what the bribe was for or at least that she was helping to murder the king and queen. But that doesn't really matter much when she's still afraid of what Brion and Terra could react. Granted, keeping secrets usually just backfires in this series, so I'm sure that this will be the case, especially when Dr. Jace has some secrets of her own.

I wasn't expecting so much focus on the meta human teen center, but I kind of liked it. It helped to provide a bit more world building and seeing how Ed had grown to accept his powers was pretty nice. His voice sounded way too deep for a teenager's voice though. Livewire's debut was pretty neat and maybe they're hinting that she'll become a villain when she kind of laugh at the hero name notion. I don't know much about Windfall from the comics, but I felt bad when she was so caught up in using her powers and then put on the collar when she nearly killed people when her powers went out of control. I don't think that the show needed another subplot, but focusing on trying to help these kids adjust to their powers and get them back into society is a nice goal at least.

I am a bit annoyed that they are pushing for the whole Will and Artemis relationship. Putting aside the context of their relationship on the side for a moment, it just feels way too late to introduce this issue. They barely interacted or had any scenes together during the first half of the season, but now a few glances where they smile at each other means that they're developing feelings for each other. That's a pretty big stretch. If they wanted to make this relationship feel a bit more convincing, then that should have started much earlier in the season. Admittedly, Young Justice isn't terrible at developing romance. It isn't one of the strengths of the series, but it also isn't Legend of Korra levels of bad in that department either. I just can't really see them making this romance feel convincing for a number of reasons.

Plus, the setup for their relationship is still kind of weird. Artemis said that Will is her brother-in-law. Even with her sister potentially out of the picture, it would probably feel really weird for both of them to become a couple. Artemis doesn't have to be with Will in order to be a mother figure to Lian either. She's already basically doing that as her aunt, so I don't know why she'd need to become Lian's stepmother instead. One of the few ways I could see this plot point working would be if they do have Artemis and Will recognize that they're both just looking for replacements. Artemis still clearly hasn't gotten over Wally and Will still misses Jade. I really like this theory since it makes sense for both characters. They can't be with the people they truly want to be, so they're basically each other's rebounds. I definitely can't see them becoming a couple and sticking with it for a few reasons. I'm still expecting some reveal that Wally is still alive at some point during the remaining episodes too.

It was nice to see some more Team members during the third episode. A lot of the characters from season two really haven't had much screentime, but at least some of them got to stand out during the rescue mission and then fighting off against other villains to save the kids from the meta human teen center. This was the most screentime Virgil has gotten during the entire season thus far and it was primarily a running gag about how he needed a girlfriend. That was far more depressing than I thought it would be. Virgil potentially getting more focus was one of the main selling points of this season for me, so that was just disappointing. I still wish and hope for a Static Shock reboot someday.

Beast Boy going public with at least some of the Team members felt pretty fitting. He didn't want to just work under the shadows like before and his powers can kind of make undercover missions a bit more difficult too. It can give other meta human teens hope while also potentially making it easier for them to fight more out in the open. I don't know if he'll make his own team or they'll just have a separate public version of the Team. A part of me kind of hopes that they just give them a unique name since calling their group the Team is so weak. Overall, these were some pretty good episodes.

 

[Frontier]

I thought that these episodes were pretty good. It was interesting to see more of the Justice League. Even though the main appeal of Young Justice is seeing the younger heroes get the spotlight, a spin-off focusing on this universes' Justice League still sounds pretty interesting. Since they've been in space for so long, I wonder if Superman knows that he has a son with Lois. I'm still kind of amazed that was just glossed over, especially when I'm sure that Conner would want to help out while Superman is away. Getting to see Guy was interesting. He was smug, cocky and annoying, but he was still competent and helpful to the team despite all of that.

Man, Superman really has trouble with parental obligations on this show. He was really resistant to a relationship with Conner initially and has now completely left Lois alone to raise their kid .

I wasn't expecting so much focus on the meta human teen center, but I kind of liked it. It helped to provide a bit more world building and seeing how Ed had grown to accept his powers was pretty nice. His voice sounded way too deep for a teenager's voice though. Livewire's debut was pretty neat and maybe they're hinting that she'll become a villain when she kind of laugh at the hero name notion. I don't know much about Windfall from the comics, but I felt bad when she was so caught up in using her powers and then put on the collar when she nearly killed people when her powers went out of control. I don't think that the show needed another subplot, but focusing on trying to help these kids adjust to their powers and get them back into society is a nice goal at least.

I think Livewire was referencing how she was initially working for villains, even if she was being mind-controlled to do it. Although a part of me wouldn't be surprised if she didn't mind it .

 

[Batboy84]

I wonder if that means Weisman was the one who came up with Zeb's catchphrase or just wanted to reference one of his old shows ?

I can't find where he originally confirmed it, but this tweet is proof enough that he did.

 

[Yojimbo]

I'm actually curious about the Mister Miracle situation since his history intersecting with Barda when they're young is generally a big part of both characters, but if it was a factor I'm not sure Barda would still be with the Furies or acting the way she is .

As I watched the episode, my impression - okay, they're seeding her defection with Superman's kindness to her, maybe she'll appear again this season or more likely next. Either way, seems inevitable Mister Miracle will show up as the importance of the New Gods increases on the series. But past titles have used Barda without him - Batman Beyond, Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, DC Super Hero Girls.

I wondered what that was. Is this the first time he's transformed into a non Earth animal ?

Hmm. Pretty sure that was it. I don't recall any other alien animals he met.

So she might not be the Mist's daughter but a genuine gender-flip of the Golden Age Mist. Or maybe she's trying to hide her identity? Could go either way .

Yeah. Maybe her full name will eventually show up in the voice credits like Livewire's did.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't have Deadshot providing backup to be honest.

He could have been with Flag on stand by.

 

[Frontier]

As I watched the episode, my impression - okay, they're seeding her defection with Superman's kindness to her, maybe she'll appear again this season or more likely next. Either way, seems inevitable Mister Miracle will show up as the importance of the New Gods increases on the series. But past titles have used Barda without him - Batman Beyond, Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, DC Super Hero Girls.

I know, but other then DCSHG all those were set post-Apokolips defection so there was the implication that that part of their story had already happened (his costume even cameoed in Apocalypse), so it'll be interesting to see how they frame it now.