"Young Justice: Outsiders" Season Three Talkback, Part 2 (Spoilers)

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Frontier

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Opener. The mention of a third mission in Chicago made me immediately think, "Gee, if there were a comic series, we'd be reading about it." Again, it's fascinating that Courtney reports Wonder Girl and Static as two brand new heroes.
I guess being on the Team does a bit of damage to your public rep :sweat:.

I feel like they're setting something up with Cassie and Virgil with how much they get paired up together. Every reference to Cassie and Tim has been to talk about how it's on the rocks.
But of course, the "WAH?" moment with Violet learning she's dying and has months to live. And a tidbit that Jace sought out her mentor to help save her life. What are the odds this mentor is now a supervillain but Jace doesn't know it? Ah yes, true Young Justice fashion. Keep it a secret. Not like it's going to blow up in your face, Violet. It totally will. Secrets and lies. sigh.
I think the mentor is definitely going to be a surprise/shady character. They're just slowly rolling out what Jace's endgame is with her revealing her less then shady actions to seem more legitimate...
As stoked I was that Zatanna got to shine and prove how she's one of the top heroes of the series, I was equally befuddled they kept Joan Garrick's funeral off camera and threw out another piecemeal that Dr. Fate appears to be MIA. I like how Zatanna finally showed that a Leaguer can go over the UN and do some good, use a glamour spell to cloak themself. And it totally felt like a choice of the Anti-Light to pass the mission off to the Outsiders. Aquaman's excuse seemed kinda flimsy about it being too public for the Team then Kaldur and M'Gann basically manipulates Zatanna into heading to Santiago to back up the Outsiders.
You do kind of get the sense how tough the League has it now that one of the only members they have available that's qualified to take down a certain threat has to hide themselves to even deal with it. And they argued against her even going to begin with :rolleyes:.

I was also kind of surprised Joan Garrick's funeral was completely off-screen. They don't even mention her name, but she's the only one I could see it being about that would involve Bart and would have Jaime come with him.

Although that does kind of get into one of my pet peeves where they have characters around and doing stuff but they get no voiceover or lines whatsoever. Like Wonder Girl was silent for all of one muted line that was probably not Mae Whitman and Bart comes back from this funeral and gets no lines but a hug at the end. Just kind of throws me off, even if I know it's because they can't get every voice actor in for a few lines, and this show stretches it's cast as is.

What is Fate doing? Isn't, like, 50% of his job keeping Klarion in check as a Lord of Order :confused:?
Project Rutabaga. It's kinda oddball they open on banter between Klarion and Teekl then show the project is a horrifying expansion on illegal meta trafficking methods. Use chaos magic to traumatize a teen into manifesting powers, bind their soul with a brand (totally thought of LeFay's one from TNBA), then shove them into a gestalt monster form with other teens in constant pain.
That's got to be the most creepy and insidious thing I've seen Klarion do all series, and that's saying something. And as far as we know the Light totally condoned this :mad:.

I kind of missed Klarion and Teekl's banter though. That poor cat has it rough...

That teen girl totally has to be Lorena Marquez/Aquagirl II. Ramon Bracuda was a random choice and reworking from a Gotham crimelord into a Cuban colonel, lol.
She seems to be Dolphin but Hispanic like Lorena Marquez. I thought it was Lorena before she got the white hair, gills, and being mute and obviously Beast Boy transformed into a dolphin to help her cemented who she actually was :).

Maybe they mixed the two together. I remember in the comics Dolphin ended up marrying Garth, and Lorena was assocated with Kaldur's comic incarnation during Brightest Day, so it'll be interesting to see where they go with it.

Also, did anyone else notice Gar tapping her butt with his dolphin head to get her into the Bioship :rolleyes2:?
The Outsiders taking on Klarion sounds ludicrous on paper but it just goes to show how much Beast Boy has grown and learned. He goes straight for Teekl and uses his powers efficiently to lure then knock out Teekl, weakening Klarion's hold on the mortal plane. Then the weird word play of Klarion continues. Constipated instead of contained. Then it gets worse and Wonder Girl is merged into the monster. But Zatanna rectifies it lickety split. That was an awesome reveal that she could summon the ankh. And also clever of her to stop Klarion by taking him to the Tower of Fate. Nice touch with Inza's portrait having a quick shot.
Whether it was believable or not I thought it was nice to Zatanna get one over on Klarion and use Fate to her advantage given her complicated history with Nabu. And it was also kind of satisfying to see Klarion scared for once, again, whether it was believable or not :shame:.
Then Violet deals with the news by drinking, shooting, and making out with Harper Row then getting arrested by another DC name character, Bethany Lee who was an ex-wife of Snapper Carr in the comics. It's a nice touch that Megan chooses to try and talk to Violet where she could simply read her mind, shows how far she's come.
Things sure escalated with Halo :eek:.

It's kind of ironic that Halo dying became kind of a joke but is now a plot point that reviving herself as much as she has has basically started the clock to her real death. Ouch :crying:.

I guess she was in a funk over realizing she might die in a few weeks, so she went all "devil-may-care" "live life to the fullest" things, even if means giving in to excess and committing several crimes (underage drinking and shooting a gun without a permit for one). Harpers a bad influence, but Violet went along with it :(.

As for the kissing...well, I guess they acknowledged Harper's bisexual like in the comics, although I wonder if her boyfriend is just a beard or if she just feels like she can kiss whoever she wants. I also wonder if it's anyone from the comics (knowing this show, it probably is).

But I mean, Violet's free to kiss who she wants but that's really leaving Brion in the cold, especially with how dedicated he is to her. I honestly could see him taking it harder the idea she cheated on him then the whole "the person who's body your inhabiting kinda helped kill my parents," but you never know :ack:.

They acknowledge Harper's father is kind of a deadbeat and criminal, like in the comics, so I guess that just leaves her brother left to be acknowledged.

I wonder if that former marriage is still a thing...she did ask to see how Snapper is doing.
And just when --- nerp, another sub-plot. And Terra talks! It's definitely interesting. I wonder, has Tigress figured out Terra is a mole and has been trying to rehab her on the sly this whole time or she still clueless like everyone else? Or for that matter, is Terra going to betray the Team or not? Makes sense Tigress would point out the parallel with Sportsmaster.
Maybe Tigress can tell that Terra is more skilled then she lets on. She teased as much, but it could just be that she's going off what she said she saw of Terra in the arena and not trained by the League of Assasins. But she probably knows about it by virtue of Dick probably having told her where Batman Inc. got their information on Terra from.
Guess probably-Lorena is heading to Atlantis. Woot, and the Outsiders are getting El Dorado on the team! That's definitely a decent gesture to inspire the teens with. Even a bigger surprise Courtney declared them a global sensation bigger than the Justice League.
Eduardo looked kinda jealous when he saw Bart and Virgil getting close. Kind of makes me wonder if that led to him wanting to go back to be a hero to be closer to Bart. The also panned to Windfall during that scene, so, uh...love rectangle o_O?

That look on Kaldur's face was hilarious :p.
And super funny end credits. Still stuck in there. lmao.
I think that might be my favorite credits gag ;).
Gotta say though, things are going great and smoothly for the Outsiders. Is the hammer going to drop on them sooner than later?
It does seem like they might be getting too big for their britches.

I don't know if it's going to be the Granny Goodness funding that does them in, Jace, or how they operate.

They only narrowly managed to avoid getting arrested in their first outing and they seem to be continuing to run afoul of government or local law enforcement when they go into other countries. That gives them way more freedom then the League obviously has, and the power of publicity the Team doesn't get, but it doesn't give them the kind of legal protection that can protect them from ending up behind bars.

I'm not sure I see them repeating the Outsiders getting arrested again, but it does make you wonder whether the show intends to address how far a public vigilante team can get on their own (even with some influence from the Justice League).
There was only one problem with this episode, how they represented Harper Row as a bisexual; namely that she seems like a stereotype of a bi/pansexual person, especially with this particular line when she kissed Halo.

Halo: “I have a boy friend...
Harper: So do I!“


In case if you don’t know what the issue is, it’s that she’s basically a bisexual who is sex-crazed for both boys and girls. Diversity is one thing, but representation is another, and there are other ways to represent bisexual or pansexual people other than them just being both boy & girl crazy at once.
I don't think she's boy or girl crazy, but as a bi girl she feels free to kiss both boys and girls if she feels like it (it probably didn't help that she was drunk).
Perhaps it was a mistake in terms of representation to introduce a dysfunctional character from a broken home first rather than normal well-adjusted (though I'm sure others argue one or more already have) one. I'm sure if a normal well, adjusted character appeared first, critics would be claiming pandering instead. There'd always be a criticism either way, imo.

A minor point, yes, but they were both drunk at the time. It could have just been impulsive on her part, both actually, imo. I'm not entirely sold on whether she's really bisexual or not just because of what we've seen in a few minutes in 2 appearances on the show or just because her comic counterpart is.
Are we talking about Harper or Violet? Because at least with Violet I can see the complaints about the hijab because it comes off culturally insensitive for her to wear something culturally significant to Muslim women and then act like she's not Muslim at all :shrug:.
 
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Yojimbo

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^Harper.

I'm not sure I see them repeating the Outsiders getting arrested again, but it does make you wonder whether the show intends to address how far a public vigilante team can get on their own (even with some influence from the Justice League).
As long as the Outsiders have good press and trend, hard to see them getting arrested. But if the public were to turn on them, I could see the UN pressuring the Justice League into taking them down...
 

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That seems unlikely since it only works when Queen Bee is in close proximity to the person.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear with my phrasing - what I meant was that Gabrielle has the potential to be enthralled by Queen Bee. One of Halo's flashbacks in "Private Security" showed her fleeing from the scene of a battle that involved Mammoth, so it's even possible that she's actually from Bialya, despite the fact that everyone believes she's from Qurac. (Although obviously it's possible that Mammoth was attacking Qurac - I guess we don't know for sure at this stage.) And back in "Royal We," the U.N. ambassadors discussed the lack of Bialyan heroes... Something may come of that.
 
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Troy Troodon

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I don't think she's boy or girl crazy, but as a bi girl she feels free to kiss both boys and girls if she feels like it (it probably didn't help that she was drunk).

Oh, well when you put it that way I guess that kinda makes sense
 

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As long as the Outsiders have good press and trend, hard to see them getting arrested. But if the public were to turn on them, I could see the UN pressuring the Justice League into taking them down...
I think it would depend on the situation. I mean, even sheriff Scrapper didn't want to have to arrest them in front of the streaming Newsgirl Legion until his boss forced him to, and it would probably have happened had backup arrived for the Cuban authorities and the mom not told them to get out of there. As has been presented I think they're walking a very fine line.

That is one interesting wrinkle I didn't think of before. The League is basically at the behest of the government at this point, so if the government wants the Outsiders arrested, what would the League do? Fake it? It's unofficially an extension of their black ops team on paper so a lot of complications there :sweat:.

Alternatively it could get even more complicated if Beast Boy decides to go completely awol :ack:.

Although it does kind of make me wonder if this is anything like what the League went through in their early stages back when they were in secret on Mt. Justice and might not have had the UN backing them.
 

Yojimbo

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That is one interesting wrinkle I didn't think of before. The League is basically at the behest of the government at this point, so if the government wants the Outsiders arrested, what would the League do? Fake it? It's unofficially an extension of their black ops team on paper so a lot of complications there :sweat:.
Super awkward to say the least, especially if Flash shows up. ;) But yeah, then what, send them to Belle Reve? Yeah, right.
 

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You know its weird how much I enjoy the more standard episode just simple plot A to plot B with no twist at the end, not saying I don't like those episodes but we get so much of them you know. On the episode in question yeah I am a bit miffed that Klarion was taken down somewhat easily despite being the lord of chaos but he has the mentality of a child so I can somewhat believe the Outsiders(and Zatana) got him by using Guile instead of raw power.
 

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But I mean, Violet's free to kiss who she wants but that's really leaving Brion in the cold, especially with how dedicated he is to her. I honestly could see him taking it harder the idea she cheated on him then the whole "the person who's body your inhabiting kinda helped kill my parents," but you never know :ack:.
You might think so, except it's not just the whole thing about what Gabrielle did that would be taken into consideration. It's that Violet believed Brion wouldn't be able to see past it. When realizing this detail she immediately assumed the worst about Brion and chose to never tell him. She felt that she couldn't trust him even though he's made it clear that he does not see her as Gabrielle. And even that is now compounded with her choosing to keep Brion in the dark about her dying. That's 2 examples of her choosing not to trust him. That might be enough to end the whole relationship right there.
 

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I love that Artemis is mentoring Halo and Tara. I expected a mentorship for Arrowette, what I got was much more natural for the story.

I also don't feel misrepresented at all this episode. Halo is going through a lot - she's hiding her compliance with the assassins, still discovering her full identity (as her past identity flashes before her), and she's dealing with the idea that she's about to die in a few weeks. She wasn't IMO ready for a relationship at all, I even question her being with Brion. I don't know why we expect a portrayal of a healthy relationship when truth is that teenagers are sometimes prone to recklessness and excess based off their insecurities. It doesn't make what Halo did right. But context matters. I know I was tempted a lot in both high school and college and I don't think it's fair to crucify either Halo for what she's likely to realize are huge mistakes on her end & ones she will atone for, or the writers for portraying a realistic teenager. This isn't the end of Halo's arc. She's the main character this season, more than Brion. Her story intersects Markovia, the Fourth World, metahuman trafficking, and the usual secrets & lies that the show is themed on.

I do feel the writers have gone overboard, though, on just how much they're trying to cover with Halo. Where you could argue her Muslim faith was a leftover relic from Gabrielle that Violet was attempting to honor at first, Violet's identity as nonbinary has amounted to absolutely nothing so far.
 

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If Terra is going to Happy Harbour High, then I wonder whether she's attracting a lot of attention, considering that she's the princess of a foreign nation. This isn't something that needs to be shown onscreen but maybe there'll be dialogue in forthcoming episodes that'll give us some idea of this.
 

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If Terra is going to Happy Harbour High, then I wonder whether she's attracting a lot of attention, considering that she's the princess of a foreign nation. This isn't something that needs to be shown onscreen but maybe there'll be dialogue in forthcoming episodes that'll give us some idea of this.
Or she's wearing a glamour charm, too, and has an alias like Forager.
 

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In hindsight, I am kind of glad they featured those couple of scenes with Joan Garrick in the hospital last week. It seemed out of place within that story but it was some build-up to this episode. Given the limited time they have it was appreciated but I still hope they will address more of the aftermath to this later on the show.

I did like how skilled Violet was with that gun. I wonder if that was more stuff she remembered from her life as Gabrielle (though I kind of doubt it), or she picked it up in the meantime. I presume there must be theories out there already about her absorbing this skill from kissing Harper, but she didn't seem as talented.

Regarding an earlier discussion, there was also a lesbian couple kissing in Freedom Fighters: The Ray, but I don't think they were supposed to be any particular characters from the comics, if that matters.
 

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Okay, it looks like I'm AGAIN going to break with the crowd and give this week a good review. I swear I'm not trying to be a contrarian. I wrote my review before I checked anyone else's opinions.

Young Justice: Outsiders "Early Warning"

That was very instructive to me. I had been wondering exactly who the target audience for the show was all season, and this told me: It's teenagers. This show isn't for kids, and it isn't even exactly for adults It's geared towards teenagers. Which frankly is a good idea. The closest thing teenagers have to superhero fare are the CW shows and Smallville, but I think this is better because the characters are the right age, and it's exploring the right issues. The teen drinking and the spicy yet innocent lesbian kiss says this show takes after Degrassi. That it has the mindset of cautionary tales while exploring problems teenagers struggle with. And Degrassi is not the worst example for that. Because kids make mistakes, and the biggest part Degrassi was exploring the fall-out of those mistakes, and how they effected the characters, effected how some of the audience wound up viewing the behavior. If you grew up as obsessed with Degrassi as I was, you'll probably wind up a total square, and afraid to try ANYTHING approaching saucy. And that's what Halo being put in prison for getting a little drunk and exploring her sexuality boils down to. Degrassi got a LOT of crap thrown at it from conservative parents for the things they showed the teenagers in the audience. But it was almost universally so they could tell the viewer not to do it, and explain the reasons why. Degrassi was a fundamentally conservative show regarding stuff like that, and I'm thinking this show appears to be too. Why else haven't we gotten a proper swear? I am well aware they said the word "sucks", which is some circles is considered vulgar. But I've heard it in Saturday morning cartoons before, and it's not a word outside of any kids's lexicon. This is still the show that won't have Klarion say anything raunchier than "Dang it!"

I think the one way the show is unlike Degrassi is that it doesn't seem to punish the characters for premarital sex. And to be blunt, that's probably a healthier mindset to show teenagers. That's partly why I was uncomfortable with Violet getting arrested when she did. But if the show is geared at teenagers, they probably want to hedge their bets about stuff like that.

What did I like and what didn't I like?

I liked Courtney. And I suspect that the real reason I actually like Courtney is because deep down I am lame.

I didn't like Klarion. The character has no charm left. He was never great, but I think the PG-13 rating sort of had the producers push him farther than they should have. And the main problem about him talking about enjoying hurting children and puppies is that I don't find him creepy or scary for it. I find him annoying and tiresome. He is the precise sort of loser I want to make fun of, and I probably would to his face if he didn't have magic powers. Those magic powers are pretty handy. I suspect if he didn't have them more people would probably be inclined to point out what a total waste of space he is. He is SUCH a loser.

I admit, I like the Fate tower tag. But that was the structure of the gag, not any fondness I had for the character. The character is loathsome.

And I hate to say it, but enough with Beast Boy. He's always laying it on SO thick. I freaking LOVE Beast Boy on Teen Titans Go!. And Greg Cipes, bless him, cannot do the noble leader role to save his life. I found Iron Fist's pretentiousness on Ultimate Spider-Man a similar level of ridiculous with that specific voice, and my eyes are rolling here too.

This was much better than last week. To be blunt, Thom Adcox's performance sucked, but I'll blame that on the writing. The rest of the voice performances besides him and Cipes (particularly Zatanna) were quite decent. It was a good week. ****.

Let me now respond to some folks.

I'm going to say it right now, because I've been holding back on saying it for a couple weeks...but this is Marvel Animation's Young Justice. Almost the same tone, lack of consequences, post-modern random references, and lazy dialogue. Almost. Like 3/4ths of the way there. At least the animation is better in YJ.
Not the same Young Justice I watched from S1 all the way to the first several episodes of S3. If that comparison triggers anyone, I don't care personally.

This season started out fine. I loved what they did with Geo-Force and Halo's backstory, and little moments like Black Lightning losing the meta kids because there was so much going on. That felt real. But I don't know, it just got too heavy on the in-jokes and modernized feel that it lacked what I saw in the previous two seasons.

Regardless, I understand people's enjoyment for this season. It's a passionate, fandom love for a show folks followed since day one, and there's still some level of complexity in this season that I don't see in Marvel cartoons. I'm not about to call hypocrisy or foul on anyone's view for it. Full power to you.
I'm just disappointed. I wanted consistency for the tone and the threat of The Light, but now I'm fairly sure they might be defeated by the end of the season after all...
I love this opinion, whether I liked the episode or not. It's fearless. Because I have been down on the show for the past few weeks, and I know how tough it is to be negative about a show so many people love so much. But if you don't like something, you don't have to act like you do to fit in with everyone else. #WeAreAllOutsiders.
I don't consider it a retcon, just unexplained.
Oh, my God! Get out of my freaking head, Yojimbo! We have been clashing on this show for the past few weeks, but truthfully this is the correct attitude. People don't seem to be complaining that Klarion being a wuss defies explanation. They seem more angry that it hasn't been explained to them. Excuse me. Put in some of the work yourselves, people. Not everything has to be spoonfed for you, and it's actually all right for things to be left up for debate. It's fun to come up with my own theories. I mentioned last week that Ask Greg does more harm than good. People expecting Klarion to explain his behavior in dialogue is case in point. Nobody in real life actually does that. Exposition is a TV thing.

Me? I think it's a matter of interpretation. My interpretation is that we shouldn't take what he said in the earlier seasons about Fate being unable to hold him at face value. And maybe if Fate believes that too, he's dumb. What I think it going on is that Klarion is a secret wuss. Talks big when he has the upper hand, but becomes a sniveling coward when he realizes he is actually in over his head. I don't feel Klarion's reactions are inconsistent to what we've seen before. I just happen to think that it's probably unlikely that you can find consistency in the mindset of a sociopath on the level of Game of Thrones' Joffrey. The actual reason Klarion is scared of being trapped in Fate's tower is because in reality he isn't the unstoppable badass he says he is when he isn't there.

And I swear to God, if Greg Weisman chickens out and explains this on Ask Greg, I'll lose my freaking mind.
There was only one problem with this episode, how they represented Harper Row as a bisexual; namely that she seems like a stereotype of a bi/pansexual person, especially with this particular line when she kissed Halo.

Halo: “I have a boy friend...
Harper: So do I!“


In case if you don’t know what the issue is, it’s that she’s basically a bisexual who is sex-crazed for both boys and girls. Diversity is one thing, but representation is another, and there are other ways to represent bisexual or pansexual people other than them just being both boy & girl crazy at once.
Good and truthful post. But I was less concerned with Harper's portrayal of sexuality, and more concerned with Halo's. Because I don't care about Harper. And while everything you said about stereotypes of bi and pansexuals is 100% true, Harper is not a good enough character for me to get on my soapbox for. My problem is Violet is arrested seconds after she is questioning whether she liked the kiss or not. It's Degrassi, but good lord, Degrassi was hardly right about everything.

Edit:

And even that is now compounded with her choosing to keep Brion in the dark about her dying. That's 2 examples of her choosing not to trust him. That might be enough to end the whole relationship right there.
Gonna stop you right there, because I want to make it clear ahead of time that this opinion is nonsense. When I bash the show for doing exactly what you think it should do in a few weeks I want to be clear that the show is wrong for doing that.

Learning you are dying is a very personal and scary thing. When and if you choose to reveal that to your loved ones is entirely up to you. And there's no wrong answer. The pauses in the conversation where Violet decides to wait a couple of weeks tells me the show agrees with you, and that Violet keeping that information to herself is some huge breach of trust. It isn't. In fact, if and when the show shows Brion being pissed about that, and Violet being apologetic, I'LL be pissed. Violet learning she's dying has nothing to do with Brion. Not everything is about him. Especially that. She is not obligated to talk about it with him on HIS timetable and when it's convenient for HIM. And I swear if they use that at a wedge (and they will) I will once again point out this is why all television writing sucks.

As for your earlier point about Violet saying she wasn't a Muslim, that scene interested me. She has never said anything like that before, which tells me that on some level she doesn't even believe it. I think the drinking and cheating lesbian kisses has to do with her distancing herself as much as possible as from the fundamentalist woman who got Brion and Tara's parents killed. Maybe if she ISN'T actually that woman, Brion won't even blame her. But her still wearing the hijab says she is still a HUGE part of her make-up whether she wants her to be or not.
 
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Nygma

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And then there's Halo. I'm just gonna say it. I've wondered about Halo throughout the entire season, but this episode clinched it. She's little more than a diversity token for the show. She still wears a hijab even though she says she's not a Muslim and abandoned every other aspect of Gabrielle's identity, yet the hijab still feels right to her for some convenient reason. She questions whether or not she is a girl even though she never brought it up before, squeed in delight at being labeled Brion's girlfriend, and no mention of it was made since. She's kissed by a girl and barely does anything to dissuade her even though there was no mention or hint of her having an attraction to girls or any trouble with Brion outside of the secret she's keeping. Every time something like this comes up on the show, it does not feel the least bit natural for her character.

I think it does, she's the spirit of a living computer living inside of someones body, she comes across as someone who's sometimes confused about who she is deep inside, and might not always know who or what she wants to be or is supposed to be.
 

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I love that Artemis is mentoring Halo and Tara. I expected a mentorship for Arrowette, what I got was much more natural for the story.
Gotta feel bad for Arrowette though. Got inspired to be a hero by Artemis and then shares, like, virtually no screentime with her. Or gets much of any screentime at all :sweat:.

I guess I could say the same for Katana, given Artemis has basically taken her role in Halo's life.
I also don't feel misrepresented at all this episode. Halo is going through a lot - she's hiding her compliance with the assassins, still discovering her full identity (as her past identity flashes before her), and she's dealing with the idea that she's about to die in a few weeks. She wasn't IMO ready for a relationship at all, I even question her being with Brion. I don't know why we expect a portrayal of a healthy relationship when truth is that teenagers are sometimes prone to recklessness and excess based off their insecurities. It doesn't make what Halo did right. But context matters. I know I was tempted a lot in both high school and college and I don't think it's fair to crucify either Halo for what she's likely to realize are huge mistakes on her end & ones she will atone for, or the writers for portraying a realistic teenager. This isn't the end of Halo's arc. She's the main character this season, more than Brion. Her story intersects Markovia, the Fourth World, metahuman trafficking, and the usual secrets & lies that the show is themed on.

I do feel the writers have gone overboard, though, on just how much they're trying to cover with Halo. Where you could argue her Muslim faith was a leftover relic from Gabrielle that Violet was attempting to honor at first, Violet's identity as nonbinary has amounted to absolutely nothing so far.
I feel like the relationship and acting out stuff is more understandable, if not forgiveable, then wearing a hijab and saying she's not Muslim if she's still going to keep wearing something that's culturally Muslim.

But yeah, the nonbinary thing really doesn't seem relevant at this point.
Or she's wearing a glamour charm, too, and has an alias like Forager.
I also doubt many people would be able to recognize the princess of Markovia at a glance, especially with how long she's been out of the limelight compared to, say, Brion.
In hindsight, I am kind of glad they featured those couple of scenes with Joan Garrick in the hospital last week. It seemed out of place within that story but it was some build-up to this episode. Given the limited time they have it was appreciated but I still hope they will address more of the aftermath to this later on the show.
I'm glad they set it up ahead of time, but it does kind of make it more glaring that they had the funeral and impact of her death be completely off-screen :confused:.
I did like how skilled Violet was with that gun. I wonder if that was more stuff she remembered from her life as Gabrielle (though I kind of doubt it), or she picked it up in the meantime. I presume there must be theories out there already about her absorbing this skill from kissing Harper, but she didn't seem as talented.
Yeah, I doubt Gabrielle had any skill with the gun unless the people who paid her to let them in gave her some training (which I also doubt). Maybe she had some training in Dhabar.

Or maybe Artemis or Nightwing trained Violet to use a gun. I guess that's plausible.
Okay, it looks like I'm AGAIN going to break with the crowd and give this week a good review. I swear I'm not trying to be a contrarian. I wrote my review before I checked anyone else's opinions.

Young Justice: Outsiders "Early Warning"

That was very instructive to me. I had been wondering exactly who the target audience for the show was all season, and this told me: It's teenagers. This show isn't for kids, and it isn't even exactly for adults It's geared towards teenagers. Which frankly is a good idea. The closest thing teenagers have to superhero fare are the CW shows and Smallville, but I think this is better because the characters are the right age, and it's exploring the right issues. The teen drinking and the spicy yet innocent lesbian kiss says this show takes after Degrassi. That it has the mindset of cautionary tales while exploring problems teenagers struggle with. And Degrassi is not the worst example for that. Because kids make mistakes, and the biggest part Degrassi was exploring the fall-out of those mistakes, and how they effected the characters, effected how some of the audience wound up viewing the behavior. If you grew up as obsessed with Degrassi as I was, you'll probably wind up a total square, and afraid to try ANYTHING approaching saucy. And that's what Halo being put in prison for getting a little drunk and exploring her sexuality boils down to. Degrassi got a LOT of crap thrown at it from conservative parents for the things they showed the teenagers in the audience. But it was almost universally so they could tell the viewer not to do it, and explain the reasons why. Degrassi was a fundamentally conservative show regarding stuff like that, and I'm thinking this show appears to be too. Why else haven't we gotten a proper swear? I am well aware they said the word "sucks", which is some circles is considered vulgar. But I've heard it in Saturday morning cartoons before, and it's not a word outside of any kids's lexicon. This is still the show that won't have Klarion say anything raunchier than "Dang it!"
I'm not sure if the show is aimed at teenagers so much as it focuses on teenagers and gears the content towards them in that regard.

Maybe Weisman and Co. just feel they don't need to use curse words to get their points across.
I think the one way the show is unlike Degrassi is that it doesn't seem to punish the characters for premarital sex. And to be blunt, that's probably a healthier mindset to show teenagers. That's partly why I was uncomfortable with Violet getting arrested when she did. But if the show is geared at teenagers, they probably want to hedge their bets about stuff like that.
Violet wasn't arrested for making out with a girl though. It was for drinking underage and having a gun without a permit.
I didn't like Klarion. The character has no charm left. He was never great, but I think the PG-13 rating sort of had the producers push him farther than they should have. And the main problem about him talking about enjoying hurting children and puppies is that I don't find him creepy or scary for it. I find him annoying and tiresome. He is the precise sort of loser I want to make fun of, and I probably would to his face if he didn't have magic powers. Those magic powers are pretty handy. I suspect if he didn't have them more people would probably be inclined to point out what a total waste of space he is. He is SUCH a loser.
I think the point of Klarion is the contrast between him acting like such an annoying pest who can't keep his thoughts straight with being basically an other dimensional god who is really difficult to defeat :ack:.
And I hate to say it, but enough with Beast Boy. He's always laying it on SO thick. I freaking LOVE Beast Boy on Teen Titans Go!. And Greg Cipes, bless him, cannot do the noble leader role to save his life. I found Iron Fist's pretentiousness on Ultimate Spider-Man a similar level of ridiculous with that specific voice, and my eyes are rolling here too.
I actually like seeing Cipes act as a more mature and level-headed Beast Boy. I'm glad he's not just doing his normal Beast Boy voice or characterization.
 

Batboy84

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Gonna stop you right there, because I want to make it clear ahead of time that this opinion is nonsense. When I bash the show for doing exactly what you think it should do in a few weeks I want to be clear that the show is wrong for doing that.

Learning you are dying is a very personal and scary thing. When and if you choose to reveal that to your loved ones is entirely up to you. And there's no wrong answer. The pauses in the conversation where Violet decides to wait a couple of weeks tells me the show agrees with you, and that Violet keeping that information to herself is some huge breach of trust. It isn't. In fact, if and when the show shows Brion being pissed about that, and Violet being apologetic, I'LL be pissed. Violet learning she's dying has nothing to do with Brion. Not everything is about him. Especially that. She is not obligated to talk about it with him on HIS timetable and when it's convenient for HIM. And I swear if they use that at a wedge (and they will) I will once again point out this is why all television writing sucks.

As for your earlier point about Violet saying she wasn't a Muslim, that scene interested me. She has never said anything like that before, which tells me that on some level she doesn't even believe it. I think the drinking and cheating lesbian kisses has to do with her distancing herself as much as possible as from the fundamentalist woman who got Brion and Tara's parents killed. Maybe if she ISN'T actually that woman, Brion won't even blame her. But her still wearing the hijab says she is still a HUGE part of her make-up whether she wants her to be or not.
While we could argue the point about whether or not it'd be wrong for Brion to be angry about Violet not telling him she's dying (and let's be real here, you're absolutely right), it establishes a pattern that she does not trust him. And while Brion shouldn't see himself as the center of the universe (which IS a character flaw given his reaction to Superboy rejoining the Team), neither should Violet, which is basically how she acted in this episode. Yes, it absolutely makes sense given what was dropped on her here, but that doesn't excuse it. At the end of the day, not trusting Brion about the whole Gabrielle thing is enough justification for him to end it. Not because of what he saw in Violet, but what she saw in him.

As for your second point, I don't buy it. It'd make sense if the scene with Harper came immediately after she discovered Gabrielle's role in the assassination if your idea is correct, but it didn't. It came after she discovered she was dying. As such, the scene came off as her being reckless and having a devil may care attitude. And again, I don't think he'd blame her for what Gabrielle did. He'd blame her for immediately assuming the worst about how he'd react to the news. And as to your point about her still wearing the hijab, again, I don't buy it. Every reference to her hijab has been either in passing or as a throwaway line or reference. There has been no indication that she wears it because of her connection to Gabrielle so far. Granted, that could easily change as soon as next week, but there's nothing there to support the idea now outside of it feeling right given Gabrielle's residual memories, which is, again, convenient.
I think it does, she's the spirit of a living computer living inside of someones body, she comes across as someone who's sometimes confused about who she is deep inside, and might not always know who or what she wants to be or is supposed to be.
And I go on to acknowledge that it is natural for her to feel confused given her circumstances. But, as I go on to say, it does not gel with what we've seen. I should also point out that even for Harper Row, this is out of the blue. This is her first appearance since her introduction. There is no indication on the show that she's even attracted to girls, let alone an attraction to Violet. Yeah Harper was drunk, but Violet wasn't, and we've had WAY more time getting to know Violet than Harper, and she still reciprocated it without any indication she ever had an attraction. And while Violet did drink, there's no way alcohol works that quickly, and it's obvious that was the first time she drank.

And at some point, we're going to have to move past the whole "she's an alien computer living in a teenage girl" argument. It should not be used as a free pass to justify contradictions when they don't make sense given her character and her progression, nor should it be used to justify things like her attraction to Harper coming up out of the blue without any indication. If Superboy can be handled well and realistically as a clone who at the start of the show was 16 weeks old, had no real world or social experience, and had code words implanted in his mind that would make him do whatever Luthor wanted, then there's no excuse why Halo can't get the same treatment.
 

Nygma

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And I go on to acknowledge that it is natural for her to feel confused given her circumstances. But, as I go on to say, it does not gel with what we've seen.

Sure it does given she might die she wants to spend time with Harper before winter break without telling her.

I should also point out that even for Harper Row, this is out of the blue. This is her first appearance since her introduction. There is no indication on the show that she's even attracted to girls, let alone an attraction to Violet.

There's no indication she wasn't, and nothing we saw from her here contradicted anything from Another Freak.

Yeah Harper was drunk, but Violet wasn't, and we've had WAY more time getting to know Violet than Harper, and she still reciprocated it without any indication she ever had an attraction. And while Violet did drink, there's no way alcohol works that quickly, and it's obvious that was the first time she drank.

And at some point, we're going to have to move past the whole "she's an alien computer living in a teenage girl" argument. It should not be used as a free pass to justify contradictions when they don't make sense given her character and her progression, nor should it be used to justify things like her attraction to Harper coming up out of the blue without any indication.

You saw nothing that indicated she felt non-binary until she announced it in Influence. Given she had given it some thought before that who's to say she's stopped giving thought to other aspects of her life?
Also attraction? She might not have felt she had the heart to say no to her given her circumstances of dying.
 

Batboy84

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Sure it does given she might die she wants to spend time with Harper before winter break without telling her.
That indicates she wants to spend time with a friend, not someone she had an attraction towards, especially when the kiss caught her off guard.
There's no indication she wasn't, and nothing we saw from her here contradicted anything from Another Freak.
Not how it works for me. I need to see them build to it if they introduce a relationship, not just spring it on people and expect them to accept it without question. M'gann and Lagoon Boy was another relationship that wasn't handled that well because they chose to spring it on us during the time skip and expect people to accept it because they show them being attracted to each other after one conversation in the tie-in comic. That relationship's only purpose was to throw a wrench into M'gann and Connor being together, and to be honest, it looks to be the same thing with the Violet and Harper relationship even though it's not necessary given Violet not trusting Brion with the whole Gabrielle thing.
You saw nothing that indicated she felt non-binary until she announced it in Influence. Given she had given it some thought before that who's to say she's stopped giving thought to other aspects of her life?
Also attraction? She might not have felt she had the heart to say no to her given her circumstances of dying.
And what's your point? That is also something I took issue with. There was NO indication whatsoever that she was ever attracted to girls or that she questioned her gender, especially given the evidence I cited. The fact that they sprung both of these on us is nothing short of bad writing, plain and simple. And I never said she didn't give thought to any of it. I'm saying there is no evidence that she did. There was no build-up to either of them. No hints. No indication that it ever passed her mind. That is not good story telling.

And as for her not having the heart to say no, that would only really fly if it were Harper dying, not Violet. She is not obligated to let anything happen between them even if she were to die the day after instead of in a few months. Besides, if that is her mentality, then it kinda shows just how little she thinks of her relationship with Brion.
 

Marvelman02

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About Violet cheating on Brion... She didn't cheat! Harper kissed her! And about Violet dying... we don't know whether that is true or not. How much can we trust what Jace says at this point?
 
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