"Young Justice" News & Discussion Thread, Part 26 (Spoilers)

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Welcome to the 26th installment of the largest Young Justice discussion thread online! Watch Young Justice Saturdays at 10:30am (ET/PT) on Cartoon Network!


Series Description:
Young Justice: Invasion continues as the team (Aqualad, Kid Flash, Superboy, Miss Martian and Artemis), now led by Nightwing, and its new members (Robin, Blue Beetle, Beast Boy, Lagoon Boy, Wonder Girl, Bumblebee, Batgirl) go deeper and more covert than ever before. As team rivalry and personal conflicts arise, the team must band together to fight the real threat that faces Earth. This all-new series is produced by Warner Bros. Animation and based upon characters from DC Comics. Sam Register (Teen Titans, Ben 10, Batman: The Brave and the Bold) is the executive producer. Brandon Vietti (Batman: Under the Red Hood, Superman Doomsday, The Batman) and Greg Weisman (Gargoyles, The Spectacular Spider-Man, W.I.T.C.H.) are the producers.

This thread is for general discussion of the Young Justice animated series and related products (i.e., comics, toys, etc.). Keep it locked at The World's Finest and toonzone News for the latest updates!

Previous Installments:

-News & Discussion Thread, Part 1
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 2
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 3
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 4
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 5
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 6
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 7
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 8
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 9
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 10
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 11
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 12
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 13
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 14
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 15
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 16
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 17
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 18
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 19
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 20
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 21
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 22
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 23
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 24
-News & Discussion Thread, Part 25

Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion. Keep your posts the thoughtful, relevant and insightful. Do not post any improper or inflammatory material, in addition to conducting yourself in a proper and civilized manner. And please, don't post for just the sake of posting. Have something of worth to add to the conversation. We will issue warnings and infractions if we believe it necessary. Remember, keep discussions ON-TOPIC!


Current Known News By Topic
SEASON 2: INVASION

New Characters
  1. Hidden WildStorm character Ask Greg 7/18/12
  2. Hidden WildStorm character is in season one Ask Greg 9/3/13
  3. Hidden WildStorm character is a female Ask Greg 5/10/14
New Characters That Never Showed Up
  1. Catwoman Grey DeLisle Tumblr 11/5/12
Cut Storylines Reworked into Time Skip Ask Greg 3/31/13, Life After YJ 1/10/14,

  1. Donna Troy/Troia and Mary Bromfield/Sergeant Marvel were cut from the bridal shower in "Satisfaction" because it would have required four new designs and the crew was stretched too thin.
  2. If Donna and Mary were designed, they would have appeared in "Endgame"
  3. A Red Tornado arc
  4. Lieutenant Marvel and Sergeant Marvel were originally considered to be on the Team in season 2
  5. A Zatanna arc - a follow up between Zatanna, Zatara, and Dr. Fate
  6. Donna Troy was originally planned to be used in season 1 but at the time, both her and Cassie Sandsmark were on the "can't use" list. By the time Geoff Johns became creative director and cleared them for use, it was too late. The next plan was have Donna cameo in season 2 but was cut for time and design constraints.
Season 3
Ideas and Beyond
  1. At least 7 major characters that staff wanted to add to Season 2 that won't be appearing at all because there just wasn't any room for them. So they'll have to be saved for the comic book and/or a potential Season 3 Ask Greg 5/4/12
  2. Would involve another time skip between the last episode of Season 2 and the first of Season 3. Ask Greg 5/15/2012 + Ask Greg 7/16/12
  3. The 12th villain from Young Justice: Legacy will play into Season 3 if the show is renewed ComicsOnline (6:33-6:53) 6/11/12
  4. Interest in incorporating some characters from Wildstorm Comics Ask Greg 7/18/12
  5. Starfire is a character the staff has talked about using GamerFitNation Interview, 8:24-8:28 mark 8/17/12
  6. Season 3 is all worked out very much in advance - the basic storyline and the characters, not exactly what would happen in every episode. Aquaman Shrine Interview 9/27/12
  7. Enough leftover ideas to carry through to a season four. Vietti Tweet 10/14/12
  8. Lots of new surprises and new additions to the cast, including a character created by Jerome Moore Moore deviantArt 3/10/13
  9. More to Madame Xanadu's story than revealed so far Ask Greg 4/12/11
  10. Given enough episodes and/or comic book issues, Cissie Jones will return Ask Greg 8/15/12
  11. Some more on the Green Lanterns and Martians Ask Greg 3/22/13
  12. Plans for some in this list: Vixen, Gypsy, Dr. Light, Fire, and Ice Ask Greg 3/22/13
  13. Producers had specific ideas for Earth-16 version of the Wonder Twins, Zan & Jayna. Ask Greg 4/29/13
  14. Very specific plans for the Martians Ask Greg 8/8/13
  15. Talked a lot about bringing in Onyx Life After Young Justice 1/10/14, 21-31 minute mark
  16. Definitely had plans for Stephanie Brown Life After Young Justice 1/10/14, 21-31 minute mark
  17. Had plans for Ravager Ask Greg 1/30/14
  18. Would have introduced Troia in comic and show Ask Greg 1/30/14
  19. There were plans for the unidentified alien race who sent Tiamat to Earth Ask Greg 1/31/14
  20. Eventual plans for everyone on the original list of 50+ candidates for the Team Ask Greg 3/19/14
  21. Had plans to bring in Arrowette CBC Spotlight Ep 13 3/22/14 (21:46-22:05)
  22. Had plans to bring in Mia Dearden/Speedy CBC Spotlight Ep 13 3/22/14 (21:46-22:05)
  23. Jack Kirby's Fourth World (New Gods, New Genesis, Apokolips) would have been a big element of season 3. TheFlashPodcast 4/26/14 36:12-36:40
  24. There were many great discussions about story possibilities and designs for Mars. Vietti Tweet 6/12/14
  25. Had plans for the Doom Patrol Weisman Tweet 6/29/14
Young Justice: Invasion and Pitched Earth-16 Comic
Ideas and Unused Storylines
  1. Originally a few more issues were planned before jumping to the Invasion time frame Chris Jones 6/12/12
  2. Will see more of the JSA (and All-Star Squadron) in the comics. Ask Greg 12/9/11
  3. Will be cameos of other JSA members Youtube - DC Nation Panel 3/18/12
  4. Staff has stories in mind for JSA and A-SS WF 10/2/12
  5. The #9-10 arc revisited eventually Ask Greg 2/13/12
  6. Eventually more of Talia Ask Greg 4/16/12
  7. Will see more of Green Arrow and Black Canary's relationship explored in Issue #20-21. Ask Greg 4/16/12
  8. Earth-16 version of the DC Showcase short "Green Arrow" Ask Greg 5/8/12
  9. The Green Arrow, Black Canary, Artemis, Red Arrow story (set after Episode 1x14) was originally planned for 20-21 but will have to wait and will get to it eventually. Ask Greg 6/13/12
  10. Count Vertigo, Merlyn, Henchy, Red Arrow's life as an unwitting mole and the death of Perdita's father also figured into the Green Arrow story. WF Interview 2/19/13
  11. Marvel Family story was planned. WF Chris Jones Interview 9/18/12
  12. Billy Batson's 3 best school friends - Freddy Freeman, Kit Freeman, and Mary Bromfield would have been introduced in the Marvel story. WF Interview 2/19/13
  13. Freddy Freeman is Lieutenant Marvel and Mary Bromfield is Sergeant Marvel. Ask Greg 10/8/13
  14. Captain Marvel's origin story WF Interview 12/16/13
  15. Some more on the Green Lanterns and Martians Ask Greg 3/22/13
  16. Two-Face Nerdy Show Ep. 160
  17. Issue that used an episode of Hello, Megan! as a framing device Nerdy Show Ep. 160
Non-Greenlit Pitches Ask Greg 3/22/13
  1. Season Three
  2. Earth-16 comic book
  3. Animated spin-offs such as one featuring Arsenal and/or the Arrow Family
  4. Black Manta Celebrity Hot Tub shorts
  5. A direct to DVD movie
  6. Brandon Vietti pitched a YJ meets Scooby movie
ARCHIVED INFORMATION

The Team Designations Ask Greg 8/28/12
Two A Designations Ask Greg 1/30/13

Master Timeline
  1. Weisman's master timeline was at 139 pages Ask Greg 12/3/10
  2. 149 pages Ask Greg 1/28/11
  3. 185 pages Ask Greg 11/18/11
  4. 191 pages KSite TV Interview 4/26/12
  5. 201 pages Ask Greg 9/4/12
  6. 205 pages Ask Greg 10/4/12
  7. Completed at 250 pages (includes, everything from the two seasons, the tie-in comic, the Legacy video game, some back story such as the Golden Age, and some of the characters from the five year gap) Ask Greg 5/17/13
  8. 283 pages Life After Young Justice 1/10/14, 30s minute mark
DC Characters
  1. By Episode 16, 135 DC characters have appeared Ask Greg 8/23/10
  2. By Episode 17, 147 DC characters have appeared Ask Greg 9/3/10
  3. By Episode 24, 174 DC characters have appeared MTV 1/14/11
  4. By Episode 26, 179 total DC characters have appeared. But that includes omitted characters like Catherine Cobert. Ask Greg 2/24/11 + Ask Greg 2/7/12
  5. Season Two, 145 name characters Ask Greg 2/7/12
  6. By Episode 46, 241 total DC characters Newsarama 3/17/12
The Master List - Potential Teen Heroes to join the Team (50-60)
  1. Bombshell Ask Greg 11/10/10
  2. Raven Ask Greg 12/12/11
  3. Cyborg Ask Greg 12/12/11
  4. Starfire Ask Greg 12/12/11
  5. Beast Boy Ask Greg 12/12/11
  6. Supergirl Ask Greg 2/22/12
  7. Wonder Twins Ask Greg 5/1/12
The Master List - Potential Members of The Light (100+)
  1. Count Vertigo Ask Greg 1/16/12
  2. The Joker Ask Greg 1/16/12
  3. Ultra-Humanite Ask Greg 1/16/12
  4. Atomic Skull Ask Greg 1/16/12
  5. Poison Ivy Ask Greg 1/16/12
  6. Black Adam Ask Greg 1/16/12
  7. Wotan Ask Greg 1/16/12 + Ask Greg 4/12/12
  8. Felix Faust Ask Greg 4/12/12
  9. Blackbriar Thorn Ask Greg 4/12/12
  10. Wizard Ask Greg 4/12/12
Characters Off Limits at Start of Series But Not Anymore
  1. 3-4 characters were off limits Life After Young Justice 1/10/14, 21-31 minute mark
  2. Wildstorm imprint Ask Greg 7/18/12
  3. Donna Troy Ask Greg 7/17/12
  4. Cassie Sandsmark Ask Greg 7/17/12
 
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Nightwing26

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I forgot whose post it was, I believe it was ShadowStar, but he was speculating when Jason might've joined the Team and became Robin. That post made me realize how close Dick and Jason might have been in age, and that makes me think they probably shared a really close bond as brothers. What kind of effect do you guys thin it could have had on Dick?
 

ShadowStar

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I forgot whose post it was, I believe it was ShadowStar, but he was speculating when Jason might've joined the Team and became Robin. That post made me realize how close Dick and Jason might have been in age, and that makes me think they probably shared a really close bond as brothers. What kind of effect do you guys thin it could have had on Dick?
It's difficult to know, unless it turns out that Dick has taken a previous leave of absence from the Team and Greg confirms it. Age-wise, I think Jason was 12 in Team Year Zero (so a little bit younger than Barbara, who in turn was a little bit younger than Dick). I'd say he joined the Team when he was 14 and died when he was 15, roughly half-way through the 5 year gap. One possibility is that Jason's death made Dick initially skeptical of Barbara's ability to cut it as a Team member, or feel slightly protective of her and determined to do a very good job of mentoring her. I imagine Jason's death was a big factor in Dick not becoming Team leader sooner due to the anguish it probably caused the Bat-Family.
 

Northern Sun

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It's difficult to know, unless it turns out that Dick has taken a previous leave of absence from the Team and Greg confirms it. Age-wise, I think Jason was 12 in Team Year Zero (so a little bit younger than Barbara, who in turn was a little bit younger than Dick). I'd say he joined the Team when he was 14 and died when he was 15, roughly half-way through the 5 year gap. One possibility is that Jason's death made Dick initially skeptical of Barbara's ability to cut it as a Team member, or feel slightly protective of her and determined to do a very good job of mentoring her. I imagine Jason's death was a big factor in Dick not becoming Team leader sooner due to the anguish it probably caused the Bat-Family.
I also wonder how much Jason's death factored into Wally and Artemis' eventual decision to retire. Given Jason's background, it's easy for me to see he and Artemis being close, and his death probably hit her hard.
 

the greenman

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the point of no return
I also wonder how much Jason's death factored into Wally and Artemis' eventual decision to retire. Given Jason's background, it's easy for me to see he and Artemis being close, and his death probably hit her hard.

Has Greg or Brandon ever given an age when Dick became Nightwing? I definitely think it was the death of Jason that caused him to finally strike out on his own in Bludhaven. Then when Bruce picked up Tim, he probably decided to be more hands on as Team leader for the sake of Tim. Maybe.
 

Yojimbo

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Has Greg or Brandon ever given an age when Dick became Nightwing? I definitely think it was the death of Jason that caused him to finally strike out on his own in Bludhaven. Then when Bruce picked up Tim, he probably decided to be more hands on as Team leader for the sake of Tim. Maybe.
Nope. But we have some hints. We know Aqualad was leader of the Team for four and a half years before he went into deep cover. So towards the end of Team Year Four he would have stepped down and in theory when Dick, as Nightwing already, took over as leader. In theory, one would think he became Nightwing when he became 18 but that would be Team Year Four, not enough time for the second Robin. Since this show hinges on the 16 motif, I'm leaning towards Dick becoming Nightwing on his 16th birthday, December 1st, Team Year Two. And Jason was Robin for ~2 years and was the first casualty so he probably died around the start of Team Year Four probably then Tula at some point (and then Ted Kord in July Team Year Five). And from Weisman, we know Tim Drake becomes Robin at the beginning of Team Year Five. So Tim had no part in Nightwing becoming the leader. So in closing my guess is the end of Team Year Two.
 

ShadowStar

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Greg has commented on some of the Wondercon rumours floating around: Search Ask Greg : Gargoyles : Station Eight

I think the only one of those rumours that made it as far as this forum's YJ thread was myth #6 (about the plans for Donna and Cassie). Lots of interesting tidbits anyway:

Greg Weisman said:
Unfortunately, by that time, it was flat out too late to include Donna. So we decided we'd put Cassie in Season Two.


This makes it sound like the main reason for Cassie appearing was out of a sense of obligation to find a way to honour the mantle of Wonder Girl in the series. Ideally it would have been Donna (in a decent role in season 1, from the sounds of things), but when that wasn't possible they made the best of what they had to go on.

And now it is clear that Mary Bromfield was Sergeant Marvel, by putting two and two together from the following two statements:

Greg Weisman said:
I have mentioned Mary Bromfield. But she is NOT Lieutenant Marvel.
[...]
Unfortunately, for reasons reported fairly accurately from ASK GREG LIVE, we were unable to cameo either Troia or Mary at Rocket's bridal shower because there just wasn't time for Phil Bourassa to design FOUR new characters, i.e. the two girls in both their civilian and super-hero costumes.


A bit fed up that Mary was merely the Sergeant. I thought she was supposed to be the next one down in power from Captain Marvel/Billy in the Marvel Family? Call me crazy, but I also think the 'Sergeant' title would be more suited to the male (Freddy?) than the female.

I'm a bit puzzled as to what the small Marvel Family spoiler he mentions giving out at Wondercon could be. Someone mentioned that they were to have an arc in season 2 that was moved to the 5 year gap because there wasn't enough room for it. Is he talking about that?

Greg Weisman said:
Myth #3: "Greg stated that Ocean-Master will have a huge roll in Young Justice: Legacy."No, I didn't say anything of the sort. You guys have seen the villains who are participating in Legacy. You already KNOW he's not in there.


Not surprising. Anyway, I think it was reported that we'll be 'hearing more about' Ocean-Master, and we know that a few months passed between Tula's death and the Black Manta revelation, so with Black Manta confirmed as a boss, all signs point to the Kaldur/Black Manta reveal happening in the game's story, with some lines of dialogue here and there about Tula's death/the fall of Ocean-Master.

Greg Weisman said:
Myth #4: "Greg stated that Troia will have a huge roll in Legacy."
Greg Weisman said:
No, I did not. You already know the heroes participating in Legacy - except for the these-are-just-for-fun-and-don't-count-toward-the-canon-story characters. You already KNOW she's not participating in the story.


Again, not surprising. Though it doesn't discourage me from thinking and hoping that she's one of the DLC characters, as unlikely as it is... He only says that she's not part of the story mode...
 

Lighthammer

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Thanks for the post. A lot of the rumors and actual events I think was something a lot of us here already had a gut feeling were how things went down, but its always really nice to have that affirmation.
 

Northern Sun

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I am a but surprised that Donna won't factor in at all in Legacy. We obviously knew she wasnt one of the playable heroes, but given the storyline being around Cassie's origin I'd think some Team members would mention her a few times. I'd be real curious to know how she got along with the season 1 characters and was kind of hoping that that kind of conversations would give me a hint.

As an aside, I should be completely unsurprised that Greg's comments got twisted by the time I read them on the internet.
 

Replikon Xum

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FYI: I was the Twitterer quoted in the YJ Wiki under Ask Greg Live. A friend of mine went to WonderCon and filled me in on some details. Seems that all but one of my tweets was accurate (and Greg himself clarified that one, which is great), and a number of my tweets were misquoted by others...

According to my friend, Greg did say that Mary Bromfield was indeed Sergeant Marvel when he was talking about the designs that had to be made at the bridal shower. Greg did NOT say who Lt. Marvel was. He never mentioned Freddy Freeman by name, so people were just assuming Freddy. I am not ruling out the possibility that Lt. Marvel could be Dudley.

And we know nothing about power levels and which of the other Marvels came first. Everybody is making assumptions of who should be who based on the comics... but Earth-16 is different. Look at Aqualad and Artemis, for example.

One SSM comment my friend recalled was that Greg had planned the show to be 5 seasons, which would cover Peter's junior and senior year in high school. He then hoped to go to direct-to-DVD movies afterward so they can do some stories that would cover some territory they couldn't do on TV (no specifics, there, but there is an obvious assumption). There was a question of whether Gwen Stacy was planned to die on the SSM show. Greg didn't answer whether or not he had plans to do the "Death of Gwen Stacey" storyline, but he did say that Gwen would definitely survive until high school graduation.

Oh, and "Black Manta's Celebrity Hot Tub Party" was inspired by a drawing made of Black Manta with a helmet-shaped afro. There was an "episode" idea where Black Manta would come out and find Aqualad and the (Young Justice) Team in the tub, with Kaldar saying, "We're using the hot tub tonight, Dad; is that all right?"

Sorry to wander off-topic a tad...
 

Yojimbo

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A bit fed up that Mary was merely the Sergeant. I thought she was supposed to be the next one down in power from Captain Marvel/Billy in the Marvel Family? Call me crazy, but I also think the 'Sergeant' title would be more suited to the male (Freddy?) than the female.
Well, technically a Lieutenant is not a direct superior to Sergeant in terms of military rankings. A Lieutenant is a junior commissioned officer while a Sergeant is a senior non-commissioned officer. Lieutenants are 'higher' but still have pay respect to the Sergeant, who has more experience between the two. It sort of makes sense Freddy would, in theory be Lieutenant in line with his direct CO Captain Marvel since in the comics, Freddy's alias is more closer as Captain Marvel Junior.

I am a but surprised that Donna won't factor in at all in Legacy. We obviously knew she wasnt one of the playable heroes, but given the storyline being around Cassie's origin I'd think some Team members would mention her a few times.
Stop right there, Northern Sun. It does not center around Cassie's origin. That is only online speculation. If anything, the story centers around her mother.

Ah. That's right. Lt. Marvel was part of the team, wasn't he?
That is correct.
 

Northern Sun

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Stop right there, Northern Sun. It does not center around Cassie's origin. That is only online speculation. If anything, the story centers around her mother.
I suppose, but it'd be a very odd story choice to have Cassie's mom be center stage and have Cassie not have some sort of lead-in to Cassie becoming Wonder Girl.
 

Yojimbo

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I suppose, but it'd be a very odd story choice to have Cassie's mom be center stage and have Cassie not have some sort of lead-in to Cassie becoming Wonder Girl.
I agree but there still feels like there's a puzzle piece we haven't been given yet. In the "Players" arc, (December 1st Team Year Five), Cassie said she's been on the Team for a couple months and from that 'Meet the Freshmen' splash page, Wonder Woman "discovered the amazing powers of Cassie's birthright" and "granted her new protege the name Wonder Girl." I contest we still don't know if the latter is canon but so far the Blue Beetle and Lagoon Boy parts were 100% correct. This is just speculation but it sounds like Legacy takes place over 6 months so it could well end on July 4th, Team Year Five. And Dr. Sandsmark meets the Justice League and the Team because of her kidnapping. And as an entryway, Cassie meets them after the events of Legacy, becoming WG and joining the Team. But yeah, what I'm getting at, is it seems alternatively plausible WG joined the Team between Legacy and Players. If anything, I imagine she'll be referred and/or inferred to at some point in the Legacy story by Dr. Sandsmark and I think it's a lock she's one of the DLC characters, imo.
 

ShadowStar

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It would have to be someone young and Freddy seems like the best fit. Otherwise, he would have been a Justice League member, not a part of the Team.
Yeah. I mean, imagine if Lieutenant Marvel was Dudley... An old man in a teen's body among normal teenagers would be a little creepy. I know Miss Martian is 53 by the time of season 2 but that's different.
 

the greenman

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Yeah. I mean, imagine if Lieutenant Marvel was Dudley... An old man in a teen's body among normal teenagers would be a little creepy. I know Miss Martian is 53 by the time of season 2 but that's different.
I suggested this already, and I personally think it's something Greg would do. A twist on the issue Billy Batson had in Season 1.
 

Northern Sun

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Greg posted today that Deathstroke is 52 as of season 2. I find that funny, because when you compare him to Sportsmaster(who's 60 by season 2), it's pretty apparent who got the better aging genes.
 
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