X-Men: Evolution "Rogue Recruit" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Stu

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Discuss this episode of the fan-favorite X-Men: Evolution animated series!

xmevotalkback.jpg

Episode #3 - Rouge Recruit
Original Airdate - November 18, 2000

After a young mutant named Rogue touches a fellow student and absorbs his energy and memories, she runs away from home, confused and frightened. Now it's open to Professor Xavier and his students to recruit Rogue and help her before Mystique can turn her against the X-Men.

Comments?
 

Movie06

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Great introduction to one of my favorite characters in the show. I mean it just makes sense that she would join the Brotherhood first since that happened in the comics.
 

DawnWarrior

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First, the positive: I LOVE this interpretation of Rogue. I like the fact that they didn't try to incorporate her Ms. Marvel powers, but still found ways to make her an important character in the series. I like that Mystique is looking after her with Destiny's help when she discovers her powers (and there's some dialogue about a "skin condition" which I guess was something they told her so she wouldn't touch anybody). I like the way her powers our shown (quick negative clips, a little flash). There's a clever bit of business at the beginning where she touches a football player, and then pushes her way out of the party with the tackling skills she just absorbed. I like her "costume," which is kind of a nod to her late-80's outfit. And OF COURSE Rogue would be a goth girl; someone with her powers would have to be gloomy (I just wish we could have seen her without all that makeup at some point on the series).

Just one bit of negative: Megan Black, the voice actress, can't do the voice or the accent as good as Lenore Zann did on the 90's series. Nobody has done the voice as well as Zann, not even Anna Paquin in the movies.
 

Silverstar

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First, the positive: I LOVE this interpretation of Rogue. I like the fact that they didn't try to incorporate her Ms. Marvel powers, but still found ways to make her an important character in the series. I like that Mystique is looking after her with Destiny's help when she discovers her powers (and there's some dialogue about a "skin condition" which I guess was something they told her so she wouldn't touch anybody). I like the way her powers our shown (quick negative clips, a little flash). There's a clever bit of business at the beginning where she touches a football player, and then pushes her way out of the party with the tackling skills she just absorbed. I like her "costume," which is kind of a nod to her late-80's outfit. And OF COURSE Rogue would be a goth girl; someone with her powers would have to be gloomy (I just wish we could have seen her without all that makeup at some point on the series).

Just one bit of negative: Megan Black, the voice actress, can't do the voice or the accent as good as Lenore Zann did on the 90's series. Nobody has done the voice as well as Zann, not even Anna Paquin in the movies.

Funny, I feel just the opposite. I didn't really like this version of Rogue. There, I said it. First, making her a Goth was kind of cliched, to be honest. To me, it was just an excuse for the writers to have her act all emo, since everybody loves emo characters. Second, I actually preferred Rogue with her Ms. Marvel powers; that to me was what made her interesting. Without the Ms. Marvel edge, Rogue is pretty boring, IMO. I do agree, though, that Lenore Zann was the superior Rogue voice, but then, IMO, the FOX version was the superior version of Rogue. I'd rather have seen her that way than as the sullen emo chick she was here. (But hey, at least she wasn't as wimpy and useless as Anna Paquin's portrayal in the movies.)
 

Movie06

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Well, the Goth motif for Rogue made sense, it just fits her so dang well, you know?

And it also does make sense that she wouldn't have Ms. Marvel's powers yet. I mean you can't expect her to fly so suddenly at the start of the show.

Although what would be funny, if the show lasted longer and made a comedy episode, they could've had a Mr. Mxyzptlk character who would make her fly.
 

Silverstar

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Well, the Goth motif for Rogue made sense, it just fits her so dang well, you know?

We'll have to agree to disagree there. Rogue was never a Goth chick before Evo, and she did just fine. I love how people now try to convince everyone that this Goth version of Rogue is somehow the definitive one when she was never that way before this show. "Oh, Rogue has to be a Goth!" they say. "She can't have any powers other than absorption." "She can't be upbeat! She must be sullen and moody and emo. Her character wouldn't work any other way." Where's that carved in stone? Who are we to decide how Rogue should or shouldn't be? Rogue can be whatever the smeg her creators want her to be, since she's a fictional character. So I suppose if Rogue isn't all Gothed out in the upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men, you'll all say that they messed her character up.

Movie06 said:
And it also does make sense that she wouldn't have Ms. Marvel's powers yet. I mean you can't expect her to fly so suddenly at the start of the show.

Again, Rogue had the Ms. Marvel package at the start of X-Men: TAS, and it didn't do any harm. (Though a flashback episode, "A Rogue's Tale", was later required to explain it.) How soon we forget.

Movie06 said:
Although what would be funny, if the show lasted longer and made a comedy episode, they could've had a Mr. Mxyzptlk character who would make her fly.

Sorry, but that would've been hella stupid, IMHO. It would have made more sense to just do an XME version of the Carol Danvers storyline. (Someone did a fan fiction of that once, and it was surprisingly pretty good.) Anyways, we see Rogue flying in one of the flash-forwards in "Ascension", indicating that she does at some point acquire the abilities of either Ms. Marvel or possibly Sunfire (whose powers she acquired after Carol's finally wore off), so that's good enough for me.
 

W.C.Reaf

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We'll have to agree to disagree there. Rogue was never a Goth chick before Evo, and she did just fine. I love how people now try to convince everyone that this Goth version of Rogue is somehow the definitive one when she was never that way before this show. "Oh, Rogue has to be a Goth!" they say. "She can't have any powers other than absorption." "She can't be upbeat! She must be sullen and moody and emo. Her character wouldn't work any other way." Where's that carved in stone? Who are we to decide how Rogue should or shouldn't be? Rogue can be whatever the smeg her creators want her to be, since she's a fictional character. So I suppose if Rogue isn't all Gothed out in the upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men, you'll all say that they messed her character up.

So you're complaining about people wanting only one version of Rogue when the writers can do what they want? Yet you've also complained that they're making her a Goth and "emo" instead of how she was done originally and in the 90s cartoon. Hypocrite much. :p

So you also say she's "emo" in this. Show me where. She's a tough Goth girl that wasn't all depressed and stuff like you and others claim she was. Because she's Goth people through the E word around like it means something, yet if she wasn't a Goth, yet did the exact same things she did in the series, you wouldn't say she's emo.

I prefer this version of Rogue to the comic's because she can handle herself without needing to be a copy of Ms Marvel. With those powers she's cannon fodder because she can't get hurt. Without them she's both the weakest and strongest X-Man because she has no offensive or defensive powers unless she touches a mutant, and if she touches the right one the fights over very quickly.

BTW off the top of my head I can think of one time EvoRogue complained about her powers potentially killing people. Yet in XTAS Rogue was always complaining that she couldn't touch anyone, every damn spotlight episode of hers and many others.

If I wanted to abuse the English language I'd say that XTAS had a more "emo" Rogue than Evo. Yet I will say the 90s had a Rogue more depressed and hung up on her powers while in Evo she had character development in many other areas that weren't because of her powers.
 

Silverstar

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W.C. Reaf said:
So you're complaining about people wanting only one version of Rogue when the writers can do what they want? Yet you've also complained that they're making her a Goth and "emo" instead of how she was done originally and in the 90s cartoon. Hypocrite much. :p

You're putting words into my mouth. I never once said that the FOX version of Rogue should be considered the definitive version or that the 90's version is the only correct version. Just that ever since Evo premiered, people preach to me over and over how the Goth Rogue is so much more "right" than the earlier version and that from now on every future depiction of Rogue should only be the Gothy one, which I personally don't agree with. Of the 2, I prefer 90's Rogue to Evo Rogue, but by no means am I suggesting that my way is 'right' or that FOX Rogue should be the only way the character is ever depicted. As previously stated, who and what Rogue is is ultimately the decision of the creators, not the fans. Misinterpret much? :p

W.C. Reaf said:
So you also say she's "emo" in this. Show me where. She's a tough Goth girl that wasn't all depressed and stuff like you and others claim she was. Because she's Goth people through the E word around like it means something, yet if she wasn't a Goth, yet did the exact same things she did in the series, you wouldn't say she's emo.

No, I don't call all Goth characters 'emo', just the ones who come off as such to me. I've seen plenty of emo characters who aren't Goths, like Sausuke (sp?) from Naruto.This version of the character came off as 'emo' to me, so that's the label I use. In nearly every episode, Rogue was b*tching and moaning about something or someone and showing off her "look at me, I'm different from everyone else and I don't like anything, and I want everyone around me to be as miserable as I am" attitude; that spells 'emo' in my books. She could have not been a Goth and still fallen into the 'emo' bin if she acted the way she did on this show, thus your theory is disproven.

W.C. Reaf said:
I prefer this version of Rogue to the comic's because she can handle herself without needing to be a copy of Ms Marvel. With those powers she's cannon fodder because she can't get hurt. Without them she's both the weakest and strongest X-Man because she has no offensive or defensive powers unless she touches a mutant, and if she touches the right one the fights over very quickly.

BTW off the top of my head I can think of one time EvoRogue complained about her powers potentially killing people. Yet in XTAS Rogue was always complaining that she couldn't touch anyone, every damn spotlight episode of hers and many others.

If I wanted to abuse the English language I'd say that XTAS had a more "emo" Rogue than Evo. Yet I will say the 90s had a Rogue more depressed and hung up on her powers while in Evo she had character development in many other areas that weren't because of her powers.

Whoa, calm down. Look, I could rattle off a bunch of reasons why I prefer the TAS version of Rogue, but what would be the point? Sure, we could go back and forth on this 'til the cows come home, but it would just be opinion versus opinion. There is no right wrong answer here: it all boils down to personal taste. I don't know much about art (oh, wait, I do) but I know what I like. You and others like Rogue as a sullen gloomy Goth, and I don't. Let's just leave it at that. Just because you share the majority opinion doesn't automatically make your views more valid than mine or others who feel differently from the popular view. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Movie06

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We'll have to agree to disagree there. Rogue was never a Goth chick before Evo, and she did just fine. I love how people now try to convince everyone that this Goth version of Rogue is somehow the definitive one when she was never that way before this show. "Oh, Rogue has to be a Goth!" they say. "She can't have any powers other than absorption." "She can't be upbeat! She must be sullen and moody and emo. Her character wouldn't work any other way." Where's that carved in stone? Who are we to decide how Rogue should or shouldn't be? Rogue can be whatever the smeg her creators want her to be, since she's a fictional character. So I suppose if Rogue isn't all Gothed out in the upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men, you'll all say that they messed her character up.

I didn't say anything like that. I only said the Goth motif fits her well. And for the show, it worked. I mean they'll never do that in some revamp in the comics but it just makes sense for her.

And this is random but I'll just admit, as much as I like the comics and 90's cartoon versions but I always like the Evo Rogue because she's one of the more interesting and well-developed characters and you do feel sympathy for her.
 

DawnWarrior

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I didn't say anything like that. I only said the Goth motif fits her well. And for the show, it worked. I mean they'll never do that in some revamp in the comics but it just makes sense for her.

And this is random but I'll just admit, as much as I like the comics and 90's cartoon versions but I always like the Evo Rogue because she's one of the more interesting and well-developed characters and you do feel sympathy for her.
Quite a debate. I'd like to add to that argument by pointing out that when Rogue first appeared, she had already absorbed Ms. Marvel's combat-ready super-strength and flight powers, so it's been hard to picture her without them. The Evo take on Rogue proved once and for all (and the movies certainly helped with this) that she could still be an interesting character without them by just focusing on her absorption powers and her inability to touch anyone without hurting them.
 

Movie06

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The Evo take on Rogue proved once and for all (and the movies certainly helped with this) that she could still be an interesting character without them by just focusing on her absorption powers and her inability to touch anyone without hurting them.

Exactly my point.
 

Silverstar

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DawnWarrior said:
when Rogue first appeared, she had already absorbed Ms. Marvel's combat-ready super-strength and flight powers, so it's been hard to picture her without them. The Evo take on Rogue proved once and for all (and the movies certainly helped with this) that she could still be an interesting character without them by just focusing on her absorption powers and her inability to touch anyone without hurting them.


Different, yes, but just as interesting? That's debatable. There's only so much you can do with a Goth girl before it becomes repetitive, IMHO. My basic problem with Rogue in general is that I've always found her actual mutant power to be pretty boring. At least with the Ms. Marvel pack she was able to hold her own in battle. That was just cooler to watch for me. I guess I'm just showing my age, but it is hard for me to picture Rogue without that power boost. She was admittedly not all that shabby on XME, but her movie counterpart was the pits, IMHO. She did nothing but get herself captured repeatedly and share crush moments with Iceman.

Movie06 said:
As much as I like the comics and 90's cartoon versions but I always like the Evo Rogue because she's one of the more interesting and well-developed characters and you do feel sympathy for her.

I feel sorry for every version of Rogue, and I will continue to do so until (or unless) Marvel ever allows her to fully control her power graft. Like with Cyclops, her inability to control her power I've always viewed as a minus. Giving both characters full control over their powers would've cut down on the number of angst moments, which would've left more time for superhero action, a definite plus in my books.

As for her being "more interesting and well-developed", there were plenty of other characters on the show who (in my mind) had the potential to be just as, if not more, interesting if the writers had paid half as much attention to developing them as they did to Rogue. If characters aren't that interesting, it's because their writers and producers don't make them very interesting. You can hardly blame that one someone else.

To sum up: it's clear that I don't share the fascination, enthusiasm or the passion that you all obviously have for the Evo version of Rogue. I preferred the 90's version (the jury's still out on the Wolverine and the X-Men version), and I always will. But I'm not saying that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, nor am I saying the reverse. It's just personal preferences. It's apples and oranges, folks. Some prefer apples and some prefer oranges, but can anyone say that an apple is truly better than an orange? Or are they just different?
 

Movie06

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You have your opinion, and I have mine. No problem there, I was just explaining why I like Evo Rogue and why she was more interesting in Evo rather than the movies, the previous shows. Comics Rogue is just as interesting though.

Although, my verdict for the new version in Wolverine and the X-Men remains to be unknwon until I see the show.
 

Nygma

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I feel sorry for every version of Rogue, and I will continue to do so until (or unless) Marvel ever allows her to fully control her power graft. Like with Cyclops, her inability to control her power I've always viewed as a minus. Giving both characters full control over their powers would've cut down on the number of angst moments, which would've left more time for superhero action, a definite plus in my books.

So you'd rather take away the elements that make these characters interesting? X-Men (both TAS & Evo) have never been straight up super hero shows. When they're straight up super heroes they're less interesting. X-Men works best when they are fighting against bigotry, and when the individual mutants struggle with their mutant powers in every day life.

Take that away, and you take away what makes X-Men as a concept stand-out and what makes X-Men unique.
 

Silverstar

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You know, there's a reason why I generally try to avoid revisiting old threads, especially ones that I've participated in: 'cause from time to time, I find myself having to eat some humble pie.

That quote was from months ago; I was still reeling from the flame-fest that is TV.com's forums. I've mellowed since then, and changed my mind a little:

I now realize that you guys were right. Making Rogue a Goth, an isolated outcast, did fit her character in this whole "Mutant High' mythos that was the prevalent theme of this show. It made about as much sense as making Scott the pretty, preppy boy and Jean the popular girl. Also, I'm no longer as amped about Ms. Marvel Rogue as I once was; I'm still a fan of Ms. Marvel, but Rogue doesn't have to be Ms. Marvel, and she hasn't been for some time in the comics. The absorption is her natural mutant power; any other abilities that she may acquire down the line are just the result of that.

In actuality, it was Evo Rogue's hardcore fan base; the Goth-wannabe poseurs who praise the character to the stars and claim that Evo Rogue is either a) a goddess or b) the only good character on the show (neither of which is correct) that bug me, not the character herself.

-I'm still not a big fan of Evo's 90210-esque premise, but there you go.

Now I'm off to grab a spoon and fetch the Cool Whip...
 
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Antiyonder

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It made about as much sense as making Scott the pretty, preppy boy and Jean the popular girl.

Actually, it did fit somewhat. I mean, given that there were at least a couple other characters that took an interest in Jean (Angel and later Wolverine). And since Wolverine was too old for BSP to allow him to flirt with Jean, high school jock was really the only alternative.

Speaking of the whole Carol Danvers bit, do you still have a link to that fan fic? Anyway, given that we see her fly in the clips of the future, I'd say that it's probable that they will have an encounter.
 

Silverstar

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Antiyonder said:
Actually, it did fit somewhat. I mean, given that there were at least a couple other characters that took an interest in Jean (Angel and later Wolverine). And since Wolverine was too old for BSP to allow him to flirt with Jean, high school jock was really the only alternative.

No, that wasn't sarcasm; I genuinely meant that.
 

ShadowDemon

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You're putting words into my mouth. I never once said that the FOX version of Rogue should be considered the definitive version or that the 90's version is the only correct version. Just that ever since Evo premiered, people preach to me over and over how the Goth Rogue is so much more "right" than the earlier version and that from now on every future depiction of Rogue should only be the Gothy one, which I personally don't agree with. Of the 2, I prefer 90's Rogue to Evo Rogue, but by no means am I suggesting that my way is 'right' or that FOX Rogue should be the only way the character is ever depicted. As previously stated, who and what Rogue is is ultimately the decision of the creators, not the fans. Misinterpret much? :p



No, I don't call all Goth characters 'emo', just the ones who come off as such to me. I've seen plenty of emo characters who aren't Goths, like Sausuke (sp?) from Naruto.This version of the character came off as 'emo' to me, so that's the label I use. In nearly every episode, Rogue was b*tching and moaning about something or someone and showing off her "look at me, I'm different from everyone else and I don't like anything, and I want everyone around me to be as miserable as I am" attitude; that spells 'emo' in my books. She could have not been a Goth and still fallen into the 'emo' bin if she acted the way she did on this show, thus your theory is disproven.



Whoa, calm down. Look, I could rattle off a bunch of reasons why I prefer the TAS version of Rogue, but what would be the point? Sure, we could go back and forth on this 'til the cows come home, but it would just be opinion versus opinion. There is no right wrong answer here: it all boils down to personal taste. I don't know much about art (oh, wait, I do) but I know what I like. You and others like Rogue as a sullen gloomy Goth, and I don't. Let's just leave it at that. Just because you share the majority opinion doesn't automatically make your views more valid than mine or others who feel differently from the popular view. That's all I'm saying.

I think you're forgetting that "Goth Rogue" is a lot closer to what Rogue was when she FIRST joined the team in the comics (attitude wise): lost, out of control, and feeling evey minute of it.

That gave her a place to start from, and room to grow, as opposed to "90s Rogue", who was older, more mature and secure in her powers, and basically was a one note "Steel Magnolia" the entire show, save for one or two eps like "The Cure".

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the 90s Rogue as a character in her own right. Frankly, the late 80s-late 90s X-Men comics were the best they've ever been, 1000% better than the frakked up crap they've become first under Jemas, then Joey Q. But the "Steel Magnolia" would not've been a good fit with Evo, one of who's primary themes was the story of kids coming to terms with themselves and finding their place in the world with the added burden of their mutant powers to set them forever apart.

In actuality, it was Evo Rogue's hardcore fan base; the Goth-wannabe poseurs who praise the character to the stars and claim that Evo Rogue is either a) a goddess or b) the only good character on the show (neither of which is correct) that bug me, not the character herself.

-I'm still not a big fan of Evo's 90210-esque premise, but there you go.

The first part of what I quoted I can agree with...she's one of the show's BEST characters, but certainly not the only good one. Kurt comes to mind as another outstanding "reinterpretation" character.

I can't go along with comparing it to 90210 though. 90210 was all about rich decadent kids wallowing in their shallow decadent world. Evo was about kids with extraordinary gifs coming to terms with those gifts and becoming heroes. A much more uplifting theme, I think, by far...
 

Silverstar

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I think you're forgetting that "Goth Rogue" is a lot closer to what Rogue was when she FIRST joined the team in the comics (attitude wise): lost, out of control, and feeling evey minute of it.

That gave her a place to start from, and room to grow, as opposed to "90s Rogue", who was older, more mature and secure in her powers, and basically was a one note "Steel Magnolia" the entire show, save for one or two eps like "The Cure".

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the 90s Rogue as a character in her own right. Frankly, the late 80s-late 90s X-Men comics were the best they've ever been, 1000% better than the frakked up crap they've become first under Jemas, then Joey Q. But the "Steel Magnolia" would not've been a good fit with Evo, one of who's primary themes was the story of kids coming to terms with themselves and finding their place in the world with the added burden of their mutant powers to set them forever apart.

Folks, that above post of mine that many of you keep quoting is OLD. I've since changed my opinions about the character; no need to keep offering counterpoints about it. I've seen the light. Metaphoricallly speaking, it's like Scrooge has long since agreed to stop being a miser, but he's still being visited by ghosts every night. ;)

ShadowDemon said:
I can't go along with comparing it to 90210 though. 90210 was all about rich decadent kids wallowing in their shallow decadent world. Evo was about kids with extraordinary gifs coming to terms with those gifts and becoming heroes. A much more uplifting theme, I think, by far...

You're taking it too literally; I call any generic 'pretty teens with problems' show 90210, it's just slang I use. I could have easily said X-Men Degrassi or anything else. That's just my creative way of saying that I didn't agree with the basic idea of changing the X-Men into high-school teenagers. I'm just not a fan of Evo's 'Mutant High' format.
 
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