"Wonder Woman" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Her time has come.


​

Wonder Woman
Release date: June 1, 2017 Early Official Showings, Opened June 2, 2017
Studio: Warner Bros. Pictures
Director: Patty Jenkins
MPAA Rating: PG-13 (for sequences of violence and action, and some suggestive content)
Screenwriters: Allan Heinberg, Geoff Johns, Patty Jenkins

Starring: Gal Gadot, Chris Pine, Connie Nielsen, Robin Wright, David Thewlis, Danny Huston, Elena Anaya, Ewen Bremner, Lucy Davis, Lisa Loven Kongsli, Said Taghmaoui, Eugene Braverock

Synopsis: Before she was Wonder Woman, she was Diana, princess of the Amazons, trained to be an unconquerable warrior. Raised on a sheltered island paradise, when an American pilot crashes on their shores and tells of a massive conflict raging in the outside world, Diana leaves her home, convinced she can stop the threat. Fighting alongside man in a war to end all wars, Diana will discover her full powers…and her true destiny.

Patty Jenkins directs the film from a screenplay by Allan Heinberg, story by Zack Snyder & Allan Heinberg and Jason Fuchs, based on characters from DC. Wonder Woman was created by William Moulton Marston. The film is produced by Charles Roven, Deborah Snyder, Zack Snyder and Richard Suckle, with Stephen Jones, Geoff Johns, Jon Berg, Wesley Coller and Rebecca Steel Roven serving as executive producers.

Discuss Wonder Woman right here at Toonzone! So, what did you think?

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[Wounded_Dragon]

For anyone wondering about end credit stingers, none at my showing.

Maybe I'll get around to a full review. I honestly loved this movie. I cared about everyone and got teary-eyed in the appropriate spots. Jokes were actually funny. Lives mattered. Deaths mattered.

 

[the greenman]

This cements exactly my argument against DC's version of a shared universe. IMHO, this now proudly sits up with Donner's Superman, Burton's Batman, and dare I say even Craven's Swamp Thing. The has plenty of social commentary, humor (due to Pine being more Kirk than the Trek films), and robust action, even rich cinematography and sfx. This is what WB excels at, giving us creative visions from filmmakers.

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[AnotherRandomGuy]

Now this was a pleasant surprise. I hadn't felt this good after watching a DC movie in a long time. This is how you tackle serious subject matter while still keeping it in tune with the source material.

Diana isn't a character a lot people really "get" for lack of a better word, but Patty had her down to a t. The big twist at the end was a little obvious but I wouldn't really count that a major strike against the film.

All in all, it feels great to be able to recommend something DC related that isn't the comics.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

Now Wonder Woman is one of those projects a lot of Warner Brothers studios executive heads said was impossible to turn into a big budget live action comic book movie despite all the various differing attempts to do just that, stretching back at least from to 90's to somewhere beyond. And though there are a lot of sexist or incredibly narrow minded reasons for such a thing, I will be fair and say that it's really only in the last decade have studios had any faith whatsoever in actually adapting comic book movies with only a fair amount of mainstream popularity into movies and doing any of worth while job with them. And that sadly does include Wonder Woman who despite being one of the "Trinity" of the DC Universe and one of the most recognized super heroes around the world, never exactly got the same amount of credit or screen time to showcase herself as much as the World's Finest. I mean there was the 70's TV show but even by the 90's that was more a camp novelty or just seen as cheesy nostalgia then a true example of high class super hero entertainment. Heck when I was a kid I only really knew of Wonder Woman through name and basic look or for her appearance in cartoon kids shows like say the Super Friends. Batman and Superman obviously out grew those ties but not so much Diana Prince and really the only reason people probably didn't pick on her quite as much as say Aquaman was because she was still seen as the most known example of a female super hero but... one I always thought as a child was suppose to be tame and kind of lame. Maybe due to those Cartoon Network ads showcasing as such but to me the character was never really treated with any moniker of seriousness until the Justice League TV animated series. Which not only gave more an example of her backstory and even her name (which is where I really first heard her as Diana as that wasn't really said in the Superfriends era) and honestly powerful fighter persona. And though sometimes I wasn't a fan of the character's actions in some episodes I did grow to like and actually know of her through that show that yeah this is the reason she is so revered.

Of course as good a show as JL is, it's still only going to go so far especially when the public still generally grew up with something like superfriends and due to contract weirdity at the time Wondy was only allowed to appear in projects if she had a major starring role in them in TV and even movies for a time I believe. And unlike say Green Lantern she was never given a super successful run of tie in events or world building mythos in the 2000's to really make studio specifically sit down and want to adapt her into a movie. Of course until the DCEU got started and they were dead set on trying to catch up to Marvel and make their own Avengers esque hits and thankfully decided even if they were rushing to get to the League, at least had to get a Wonder Woman solo movie. Since yeah the character never had a wide release film in her 70 something year history and yeah whether there were good behind the scenes reasoning or not, there should not be a world where say a Captain Underpants movie exists yet a Wonder Woman movie does not. I think another big reason behind not doing Wondy is just due to the terrible name female super hero movies have gotten since probably the best overall remembered of that sub catergory is "... the one that aren't as awful as Catwoman" since the last major female release we got was Elektra and yeah that wasn't anything special or... quality whatsoever. But while honestly Marve Studios dragged around the idea of doing a Black Widow movie due to their own narrow midned executive heads DC studios finally jumped at the chances and even went about introducing Wonder Woman in of course Batman v Superman. A lot of people admit even if they don't like that movie they like her in it which... I didn't. The accent and look didn't work that much for me and I thought it was stupid to spend so much of her time just Catwomaning esque around toying with Bruce Wayne and trying to set up some mystery of why she despite being a hero in this world wasn't really known by the populous at all. Which was really just a way to tease this movie but whether or not it worked in that movie the big question was whether giving her a movie would pay off both box office wise and critically. The later of which is especially important considering well none of the DC movies have been well received at all and those were with characters like Batman and Superman who could prove to be loved by audiences and reviewers alike, so how would a more unknown element like Diana Prince work?

For me I do agree it is by far the best of the DCEU movies. I do have problems with it that do lessen my enjoyment of the movie but I admit most of those are personal and even with them this is still the most well thought out and less clunky and most strongly put together overall cast and narrative.

Spoiler

I will say though that a lot of this movie does feel like it's trying to be DC's answer to Captain America: The First Avenger. You know the "character first introduced decades ago fighting in a world war becoming a hero then disappearing until the modern day when they arise the call for justice again." Except Captain America actually had a good story and reason why you didn't see him for 70 something years. This movie didn't give the same reason for why Diana disappeared for a century. I mean the whole point of the movie and the whole ending of it was Diana realizing the complexitity of man and standing against Ares and defeating him as she didn't agree that man couldn't be saved and was willing to fight for their behalf. Which is fine and the whole character journey is one of the better parts of the movie I'll talk about later but... if she felt "man kind does have love in it and I need to protect them because war is more complicated then just fighting one battle and ending oppression" why was she such a non entity for so long? Maybe if the movie ended with her being so bitter and jaded about what man kind was and developed and not wanting anything to do with the world but... sorry with her remembering Steve and her other allies and his sacrifice and what that meant and her pledge at the end it doesn't really explain her not being around other then "uh... she just wasn't okay shut up" and sorry since that was built up as a big thing in the last movie and this was even co written by Snyder so you can't even say "oh this has a totally different view point then the previous movie you shouldn't compare them" that is a pretty major failing. I do appreciate sans the couple of shots of Wayne Enterprises we really don't have any real references to much of the wider DC Lore at all so there is a bigger self contained feeling and the setting at least give a reason why no one else was around to help save the world but again this does fail as a prequel if it's suppose to be answering a question a previous movie established but not really giving one. I also thought there was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much of the slow mo action scenes in this movie. Especially in the opening battle with the Amazons and the German soldiers. Thankfully that stopped being used as much but it just instantly took me out of it. Which is weird because Man of Steel and Batman V Superman didn't really do so many of those slow mo shots and those were directed by Snyder but this had someone else directing it and still had that style and just took me out when it kept snapping out of it. I also just could not really get into the romance between Diana and Steve. I admit I was also kind of annoyed with the romance in Captain America but that had a wholsesome cheeriness to it where it at least made more sense while here in the last third whenever you had these major slow mo reactions of Diana remembering what Steve told her he was sacrificing himself and saying I love you (oh yeah he dies destroying mustard gas by driving off in a plane that self detoniates so uh yeah more kind of "feels like you're ripping off Marvel" parallels with Steve Rogers except here he died and wasn't the big hero but otherwise kind of the same thing otherwise) and the relationship just not gelling. And honestly the two do have some decent chemistry together and thankfully there was at least more to the two characters but.... it just never connected thus you don't really feel the pathos I think was attempted at the ending to really connect. And though thankfully the movie didn't outright gut it's moral about "war isn't easy and there is no one person you can take out for it to stop" as it did go on to explain beforehand this armistance was going through and this assault on the compound was just to stop the mustard gas from being used it does sort of muddy the waters of your meaning if you're still taking out someone and that resulting in ending this conflict. I guess this can't be the shades of grey sort of ending that say Captain America Civil War was of how you could really see the logic from every side as you can't really see Ares's side other then the standard "oh people are bad and always going to do bad that's why I gotta wipe them out" but there should of been a better job of attempting that with how strong the "war is a lot more difficult then you'd think" feel to it. Probably would of helped if Ares had been made a stronger presence. I get that the whole point was you weren't suppose to really know if he was actually being there or was it just Diana's own excuses until the end and at least he tried having his own look and goals but it just didn't click with me.

Still despite those negative I really still think this movie is solid. And despite again some problems I have with it I actually really do like Diana's whole character journey. It was spoiled even in the trailers that "yeah she is the daughter of Zeus not the whole born from clay" but I do like how a lot of this was focused on her standing her ground and showcasing her strong ethics and realizing the complexeties of the issue aren't as black and white as she thought they'd be. Since yeah sometimes in war the generals aren't going to be going out to battle on the front lines or that people are going to fight fairly once you seemingly take down their weapons or who you thought was your only opponent may not of been that. This was a full journey actually showcasing someone who was optimistically naieve and hopeful about the world and discovering the beauty and joy of it but also seeing how terrible and awful people could be and having to realize despite the follies of people you need to stand and fight determined on what you believe in and not on whether you fully thing people deserve your help or not. That felt like a very solid well thought out journey from seeing how full of whimsy and wonder little Diana is to her interactions with Steven and then of the British officials and people in the war at large and growing and learning as a character. And it felt true to the actual spirit of the character much more say her in BvS was thus her wanting to purge Ares to save humanity and being so focused and honorable about that and being so forward and brave really felt like they were getting the character right. I guess we could of also gotten more examples of her compassion as aside from some comments to some of the soldiers and just being out there in the front lines it didn't really come up that much but it was still there and still felt like it was driving the narrative forward and felt like a full journey. I especially like her breakdowns at Steve for stopping her from killing the German general (he had a name but I admit I forgot it and honestly he wasn't Ares anyway, Sir Patrick was so I don't feel like I need to know who he was) and then later killing the guy and seeing the war still hadn't stopped finally realizing that Ares influence wasn't the real reason people went to war. And though a bit muddled I am glad even Ares pointed out "I only gave them the means I didn't make them do anything that was on them" and showcasing just how dirty and hellish war even in this take on the DC Universe is and how much that rocked Diana to the core but her still standing up for humanity and being a hero. Honestly the ending of this if I hadn't seen BvS seems to indicate "yeah she was unsure of humanity but still wanted to defend it and still does whenever the situation arises and people need her help she will suit up and do what's right" which I think is a good message but... again that previous movie says ever since the war she hadn't really been seen which again kind of spits on the ending of this and means the two don't really connect. I like this one better so a part of me wants to go "eh she was still a hero in the world and just saved it maybe more as a secret sort of spy hero for a century until Doomsday came around" so... maybe I'll just go with that since again makes more sense then what Dawn of Justice tried saying even if that was suppose to be the "actual" reason.

And though there was too much slow motion used in the first scenes there was still a lot of good action set pieces. Granted a lot of them were shown off in the trailer but you still get a lot of good bits. Even the opening beach scene had good moments of the Amazong wrecking the solider fron Antelipe flipping around and arrowing three guys (couldn't feel much for her death I admit as she was only built up as a mentor character in the first 20 minutes and that was it so didn't feel like I was that attached) and even Hippolypa slaying some of the soldiers as well. And honestly the action kept ramping up well after that from the little alley skirmish to Diana taking to the front line and blocking all the bullets before charaging and jumping around to smash into all the soldiers. Seriously her wrecking that giant tank or that sniper by leaping at him with such ferocity were really solid high octane moments that honestly put any of the battles in BvS to shame. And granted the final fight with Ares wasn't as good as Clark vs Zod in Man of Steel but I really liked Ares's use of manipulating metal or trying to disappear and strike from your back or him being destroyed by Diana reflecting his own lighting back at him after she got her gutso and her wrecking a bunch of soliders while miffed was honestly even better handled then Arthur first getting his king Arthur super sword powers in the latest king Arthur movie. And you know I didn't think the lasso of truth was even used that well in BvS but I loved it's use here in her various fights from trying to lasso objects in the background to whip around to hit Ares to throwing soldiers at one another to capturing that German guy she thought was Ares and wrecking him at the top of his tower. And like the first Avenger I like how there was a feeling of a team effort with the crew of soliders all backing up and assisting Diana in shooting out other soldiers or making a shield for her or for trying to take out the security around the planet for Steve to get in to fly it away. I just really like moments like that and that came through here.

And there was an honest sense of comedy and mirth to this movie. Suicide Squad did have some jokes but it felt like it had a lot more misses to it so that though it did hit there were more painful groaners to get through and the tone didn't always mesh well. This did and yeah a lot of the stuff in the trailers spoiled a good amount of the jokes (75% of everything Etta Candy does in this movie feels like it was given away in the endings of the first 3 Wonder Woman trailers. Seriously her admitting to being Trevor's secretary and getting Diana an outfit to saying "the sword doesn't really match the apparel" were all taken from like a 5 minute scene so seeing it in the movie back to back took me out of it quite a bit honestly) but there were still a good amount. Like for example Steve admitting the idea of the lasso of truth was kind of hot and him and Diana on the boat with talking about marriage and Diana reading up on sex and admitting from what she read men are only good for having kids but not good at the more pleasurable aspects of it to Steve having to point out to Diana she can't just go around trying to grab babies or go into combat in her attire to Etta pointing out she is actually well paid to appearing in the alley with the sword to Steve gathering his crew in the bar and having to make this whole spiel about doing it for honor not having the money to actually pay them to them wanting to know about Themyscurua when Steve was describing it to one guy actually logically pointing out "hey you saw what she was doing on the battlefield. Maybe there is an Ares if what she can do actually happened" to the one sniper guy being told he's a good singer even if he can't really fight to how Diana got that dress for the Gala and Steve getting in with his act and a couple of other moments sprinkeled about. Wasn't the most LOL or high octane laughs or anything which doesn't make it the most super entertaining movie but it was actually funny and the tone fight was solid throughout so that's worth pointing out.

So again best of the DCEU does still mean to me it's just a good movie. Nothing great as honestly I felt Logan and Guardians 2 and Lego Batman were better super hero movies this year but I get why this is getting way more praise then any other of DCEU's offerings and all the parts of it do still work quite well and this is by far the best female lead comic book movie and does inspire way more hope that I hope other studios take note of. So yeah Gal Gadot won me over on the character so I look forward to her more now in Justice League and heck other WW movies since maybe there are other examples of her in history worth making movies about for now a solid origin story personal flaws aside and all.

 

[Gold Guy]

I was impressed. Wonder Woman herself is easily the most likable hero (so far) in the DCEU, and she does come across as the most genuinely heroic. Her naivety could have been annoying or played too silly, but instead makes her more endearing; I like heroes who believe in people.

I know that usually, it's popular to call Superman the Capt. America of DC - but in the DCEU, that definitely goes to Wonder Woman. And yes, Gal Gadot does a great job!

The supporting cast works well too, especially Chris Pine as Steve. Finally, a CBM in a romance that actually feels believable. Nielsen and Lucy Davis also do good work in their scenes; I hope to see more of them in a sequel. Admittedly, though, I felt Steve Trevor's friends were a bit underdeveloped.

The villains are nothing special, but the final boss does at least bring the spectacle (I have no problems whatsoever with the final action scene; considering who the opponent is, the fight had to be very intense).

Speaking of, the cinematography is very good. The fight scenes pop out (and the lasso is used to good effect). Maybe a few too many slo-mo scenes, but some worked very well. Meanwhile, Themyscira looked so gorgeous; it also made the contrast between it and "man's world" work better.

The film could have been trimmed a tad bit, I think. I wouldn't say it dragged, though, but some of the scenes in the middle weren't necessary.

But if this heralds a new start for the DCEU, the rest of the films will be great. What's impressive about Wonder Woman is that, while it's very serious, it never feels "darker" than it needs to be. It keeps a sense of optimism and heroism throughout, and an actual sense of humor (that never gets overbearing). Wonder Woman will have you leaving the theater believing in heroes again.

 

[hobbyfan]

My bro & I took in a matinee today. Diana is now considered a demi-goddess, which, if you take into account that Zeus would also be Hercules' dad, makes her Herc's 1/2-sister. In the comics, Hercules, insofar as Diana was concerned, was an enemy more than an ally.

Framed by footage in the present, picking up where last year's "Superman v. Batman: Dawn of Justice" left off, we see that Diana's debut in "man's world" was moved back nearly 30 years. Some aspects remain and moved with her (i.e. Steve Trevor, Etta Candy). I wasn't familiar with Dr. Poison in the books, as I don't think I'd read of her much. Ares, of course, I definitely knew about. El-swerve-o with the reveal, that's all I can say.

Good stuff.

 

[Yojimbo]

Yup. Solid movie, the best in this DCEU - definitely an instant favorite, made for everyone, simple story and themes to understand - nowhere near as convoluted as the past three.

I did miss the first couple minutes. I got in when lil Diana asked about seeing the Godkiller, maybe a little before.

Critiques, not too much. The lasso FX got kind of cartoony and just in general movies need to stop using slow-mo in fight scenes.

 

[the greenman]

Critiques, not too much. The lasso FX got kind of cartoony and just in general movies need to stop using slow-mo in fight scenes.

Yeah, Snyder has kinda taken it overboard. Peckinpah and Kurosawa before him are rolling their eyes.

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[Yojimbo]

Yeah, Snyder has kinda taken it overboard. Peckinpah and Kurosawa before him are rolling their eyes.

The exterior battle in Veld was fine. The slo-mo -- ugh. Takes the momentum out of it, imo. It was okay on the Matrix but get over it. That was a decade ago. We get it. I'd rather see more fluid fight scenes like Batman vs the thugs when he went to save Martha Kent.

 

[the greenman]

Well, Matrix was groundbreaking cause of the bullet time effect. And yes, that's definitely over. The slo-mo didn't bother me, but they should have stopped with the Germans fight.

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[Yojimbo]

Maybe the dinner party thing seemed to late in the movie. Maybe they could have just launched the gas from that base at the end just after WW and co. left Veld.

It was amusing everyone was whispering about 'Bane gas' in the theater. I suppose since WW spared Dr. Poison's life, somehow her formula might have ended up in South America since Germans tend to have taken refuge there historically...

 

[Greg91]

Inspiring. Simply inspiring. For me, this is a movie we need right now. There is so much darkness in the world and this movie shows us a hero who's dealing with it directly with hope that it can be stopped. At the same time, we have the most iconic female superhero finally getting her own movie after over 70 years during a time where the demand for female equality is high.

Gal Gadot did a fantastic job portraying Diana's strength, compassion, bravery and love. Her naivety was beautifully sweet and displayed the ideal view of the world that many people surely do as children. Steve Trevor was a very strong deuteragonist, supporting Diana even though he didn't complete understand her. Chris Pine really embodied the role and had great chemistry with Gadot.

I enjoyed the other supporting characters including Connie Nielsen's warm yet commanding figure Hippolyta and Robin Wright's strong and loving Antiope. Etta Candy was pretty humorous, Sameer was a flirtatious yet noble, Chief was a very down-to-Earth character whose motives didn't come off as dishonorable, and Charlie was a damaged yet caring individual.

As for the antagonists, General Ludendorff was a wonderfully traditional villain and Doctor Poison was a classic evil scientist in the best ways. The movie's take on Ares was a bit different than his previous portayals and yet I thought it was solid (though he could've lost the mustache). All I really needed was the classic armor and we got it so I guess I was pretty easy to please!

The fight sequences were a blast and a half, displaying Wonder Woman as the fierce warrior we know her to be. I loved seeing the Lasso of Truth in action with its magical golden glow. While there were a few similarities to Captain America: The First Avenger, it was nice to see Wonder Woman on the actual battlefield of war, one of the few complaints I had with Captain America's movie. The soldiers and Diana were a force to be reckoned with when they worked together, meanwhile the Amazons were utterly deadly during the beach fight. Even during the training sequences, the Amazons were profound fighters. They could have used a little less slow motion during the battle sequences, but it wasn't too bad.

I find a lot of movie scores tend to be ignored or unnoticed by audience members and I hope that changes someday, because the score seriously added to everything, from the overview of Themyscira to the battle scenes during the war. The composer Rupert Gregson-Williams displayed the majesty of the character and the war setting well with a sweeping orchestra. Using Hans Zimmer's excellent Wonder Woman theme from Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice definitely put a smile on my face.

Themyscira was simply beautiful and the Amazons were powerful, bold women on an island I imagine many would like to stay on (including myself if I was allowed). If I had any complaints, I simply wish we saw them developed and distinctly named beyond Hippolyta and Antiope. I was hoping Artemis would have a bigger role in particular.

Overall, Wonder Woman was a dream come true in a time where many superhero dreams are coming true. The portrayal of war, hope and optimism, and the nature of humanity were on point and really make you question the world in its current state. Congratulations to Gal Gadot, the DC Extended Universe, and director Patty Jenkins for putting this project together. What a journey, what a ride, what a movie.

 

[zoombie]

It was a very good movie. Wonder Woman is a very sympathetic easy to understand hero, which is more than I can say for most of the DC heroes in these movies of late.

Only problem I had, it was too god dam long, this movie should have 90 minutes, no reason to be over 2 hours.

 

[Spider-Man]

Good stuff.

Why did you only give it a *1/2 if you thought it was good?

I thought it was a great movie. And it comes at just the right time. While it wasn't perfect from a technical standpoint, I thought it accomplished what it set out to do perfectly. It was a rousing movie that was so charming and full of heart. Gadot was great as Wonder Woman. While the villains were a little weak, I didn't find that it took away anything from the movie. This is easily the best DC movie since The Dark Knight and is on par and is actually better than a fair chunk of the Marvel movies, in my opinion. I can't wait to see it again!

It was a blast to see so many women enjoying this movie at the theatre I went to this weekend. Easily 3/4 of the theatre was women and they were having a blast. It was great to see that!

 

[the greenman]

I think I like the Nolan-esque ambiguous ending to her jumping out the window at the end. It was perfect! Cause alot of people don't know she has that ability. The 70's tv show never explored that, so it left it open.

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[hobbyfan]

Why did you only give it a *1/2 if you thought it was good?

I thought it was a great movie. And it comes at just the right time. While it wasn't perfect from a technical standpoint, I thought it accomplished what it set out to do perfectly. It was a rousing movie that was so charming and full of heart. Gadot was great as Wonder Woman. While the villains were a little weak, I didn't find that it took away anything from the movie. This is easily the best DC movie since The Dark Knight and is on par and is actually better than a fair chunk of the Marvel movies, in my opinion. I can't wait to see it again!

It was a blast to see so many women enjoying this movie at the theatre I went to this weekend. Easily 3/4 of the theatre was women and they were having a blast. It was great to see that!

Hmm. I meant that to be a 3 1/2 star rating, but the page was bumping up and down on my monitor at home, and screwed up my vote. Can we get that fixed please?

 

[Yojimbo]

Hmm. I meant that to be a 3 1/2 star rating, but the page was bumping up and down on my monitor at home, and screwed up my vote. Can we get that fixed please?

I'm not sure if we can reset individual votes. @James Harvey? @Zedd?

 

[JLApe]

Someone please clarify. Comic-book Wonder Woman was formed out of clay. Was she also a demi-god? DCEU Wonder Woman wasn't formed out of clay but is a demi-god. So what's this Wonder Woman's base strength level?

 

[the greenman]

Don't know. In these films, even Marvel had to figure it on certain characters like CA. Evans said he needed to talk to the director about what is supposed to be believable (I think Whedon on A: AoU). So honestly we don't know yet. We seen her lift a tank, now until we see her level struggling with something we know she should beat, we'll know they probably haven't worked it out.

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