Who are Marvel's Big Guns?

[Arsenal]

Recently the question of "tiers" came up in the "Avengers What a Waste" thread, as in "who is a first-tier character?" or "is there a such thing as tiers?". So I introduce a query: who do you consider the biggest heroes and villains in the Marvel universe?

Marvel does not have a clear "big three" like DC because its strongest selling titles --save Spider-man-- are all team books and not individual ones (i.e. X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, GLA... wait, not GLA.) So it makes it difficult to decide whom are the big guns of Marvel.

Some suggestions...
1) Spider-Man: An easy inclusion. He is powerful yet fallible; and most importantly, in the mind of Avi Arad, marketable.
2) Wolverine: The eponymous mutant is so important to Marvel's bank roll that he appears in three X-Men comics, one individual title, and they even cloned him so he can appeal more to females too. (For the sheer amount of appearances he makes, he is comparable to DC's Batman. He is Marvel's cash cow.)
3) Hulk: After his live television show he is ingrained on public culture. Most people know the "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry" line even if they don't know where it came from.
4) Captain America: He is the one hero from Marvel's Golden Age that translated well into their Silver (and Ultimate) age. Namor plays bit roles and is never around too long. Human Torch was dramatically reinvisioned. The Whizzer has a funny name. Maybe Cap isn't the most marketable name or original hero; but he is arguably the most important Avenger. Impressive, since he was not a founding member.
5) Iron Man: A questionable inclusion. His popularity has plummeted with boring plots about alcoholism, politics, bankruptcy, and remote control suits. But his influence is still important. He and Cap were the two Avengers of the old guard that Bendis saw fit to retain. That means something.
6) Daredevil: Another character who used to be more popular, but his property was one of the first translated to film during the Marvel Movie Renaissance.

Other characters who could have been included: Punisher, Thing, Thor, Storm, Ghost Rider, Silver Surfer... but I want to know what you think.

 

[Chris Wood]

Some suggestions...
1) Spider-Man: An easy inclusion. He is powerful yet fallible; and most importantly, in the mind of Avi Arad, marketable.
2) Wolverine: The eponymous mutant is so important to Marvel's bank roll that he appears in three X-Men comics, one individual title, and they even cloned him so he can appeal more to females too. (For the sheer amount of appearances he makes, he is comparable to DC's Batman. He is Marvel's cash cow.)
3) Hulk: After his live television show he is ingrained on public culture. Most people know the "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry" line even if they don't know where it came from.
4) Captain America: He is the one hero from Marvel's Golden Age that translated well into their Silver (and Ultimate) age. Namor plays bit roles and is never around too long. Human Torch was dramatically reinvisioned. The Whizzer has a funny name. Maybe Cap isn't the most marketable name or original hero; but he is arguably the most important Avenger. Impressive, since he was not a founding member.
5) Iron Man: A questionable inclusion. His popularity has plummeted with boring plots about alcoholism, politics, bankruptcy, and remote control suits. But his influence is still important. He and Cap were the two Avengers of the old guard that Bendis saw fit to retain. That means something.
6) Daredevil: Another character who used to be more popular, but his property was one of the first translated to film during the Marvel Movie Renaissance.

Other characters who could have been included: Punisher, Thing, Thor, Storm, Ghost Rider, Silver Surfer... but I want to know what you think.

I'll agree with Spiderman, Wolverine, Hulk, Cap, Iron Man, and Daredevil, and maybe Punisher or Thor.

Plus you have to have someone from the Avengers and FF, but that's a tough one. Thing? Torch? Vision? Hawkeye? Wonder Man?

 

[Arsenal]

Maybe my question has to be rephrased. If you had to create a Marvel "Justice League" akin to Bendis's Avengers, whom would you include?

 

[Spider-Friends]

If you had to create a Marvel "Justice League" akin to Bendis's Avengers, whom would you include?

Everybody IN Bendis' Avengers.

Though I wouldn't mind substituting Luke Cage with the Hulk.

 

[Donald Duck 12]

So following JL's pattern of big 3, 2 famous to comic fans, 1 classic member, and 1 lesser known?

Spider-Man
Wolverine
Hulk
Daredevil
Iron Man
Captain America
Invisible Girl/Woman

Doesn't feel right. It is hard to copy DC's main heroes with Marvel, they are just two different beasts. Maybe a Golden Age with some Marvel Age heroes would feel better:

Captain America
Namor, The Sub-Mariner
Human Torch
Miss America
Whizzer
Thor
Female Mutant or Wasp

Better, but not much for big guns.

 

[randomguy]

Maybe my question has to be rephrased. If you had to create a Marvel "Justice League" akin to Bendis's Avengers, whom would you include?

Honestly, I don't think it's possible. You can't fit Marvel's superheroes into a DC mold because the Marvel Universe just isn't constructed that way. That's why I cringe a bit when people refer to the New Avengers as Marvel's JLA. They're really not. At least three members of the lineup (Cage, Spider-Woman, and the Sentry) are hopelessly obscure.

I mean, if you wanted to focus on Marvel's big guns, at a bare minimum you'd have to have:

-Spider-Man
-Captain America
-Iron Man
-The Hulk
-The entire Fantastic Four (like it or not, you can't split these guys up... they come as a package or not at all)
-Thor
-Daredevil
-The Punisher

The problem being, of course, that the Punisher wouldn't belong on such a team and doesn't fit comfortably alongside the others. Then there's the X-characters, which kind of occupy their own little realm seperate from the rest of the MU. I guess you could pick Wolverine as a representative of the X-verse, but that wouldn't really be thorough enough.

Which is why I think the traditional approach to the Avengers, where they're not so much the "big guns" but the most organized, efficient, and effective team is such a good idea.

 

[RAINMAN]

I can`t believe you people think daredevil & punisher are marvel big guns? They are only popluare due to there live action movie. DD is Ok but most people don`t go for the blind hero thing. The punisher is a lameO character, that the only reason people like him is cause idiots are fast to fall in love for any character that carries a gun. In my opinion marvel big guns are. Spider,wolvie, capt.A the hulk, iorn man,thor and cyclops. Cyke get no respect what so ever. The guy really don`t deserev the bashing he gets from wolvie fans is just wrong! And the live action movies don`t help things either.


As for DC well there is the big 3,however according to wizard,for a DC pool, fans think flash is the 3rd mot important char. And now hal is back? Maybe they should rethink just who are DC big guns?

 

[Stu]

RAINMAN,

Please don't call people who are fans of characters you aren't idiots. It's thier opinion and they are entitled to it. Don't try and make thier minds for them.

 

[Arsenal]

Punisher was huge in the eighties. He appeared in no less than three titles monthly. His character may seem a little passe now, because Frank Castle was as defined by his era as Steve Rogers was by his; but at least for awhile, his popularity was unquestionable.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

If I had to list Marvel's Seven Biggest Heroes, it would probably be like this:

1. Spiderman
2. Hulk
3. Wolverine
4. Captain America
5. Namor
6. Iron Man
7. Daredevil

Don't doubt the Sub Mariner, folks.

I'd say the Fantastic Four would come next, followed by Punisher, Phoenix, Cyclops, et all.

 

[Christopher Glennon]

Honestly, I don't think it's possible. You can't fit Marvel's superheroes into a DC mold because the Marvel Universe just isn't constructed that way.

You're right, random, but Arsenal, you're really asking two questions. Who are the biggest heroes and would fit in with The Avengers, Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and who are the best to market.

Here's how I think the tiers go in terms of marketability/recognizability to the public and whatnot:

1) Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wolverine - They're the biggest, most popular, iconic, and biggest cash cows
2) Captain American, Iron Man, and Daredevil - They've had their own titles for some time and the occational TV series or movie.
3) The Thing, Storm - They are recognizable, but not usually outside their teams
4) Nick Fury, Howard The Duck - Not really huge in the Marvel Universe, but somehow manage to get movies
5) Dr. Cecilia Reyes, Deathcry, Nightthrasher - Super obscure, characters Marvel fans may not even recognize.

As for my take on who The Avengers should be, I said it in the other thread

 

[RAINMAN]

RAINMAN,

Please don't call people who are fans of characters you aren't idiots. It's thier opinion and they are entitled to it. Don't try and make thier minds for them.

I don`t know if you got my PM but i`ll repeat it again. I was not calling punisher fans idiots. I was talking about people who think anyone who carries a gun and shoot people,then think such a character is ultra cool. Anyone can pick up a gun and act like dirty harry. I have nothing againts punisher fans but putting him in on the same level as spdier,wolvie,Capt etc... just becasue he has a movie feels so wrong. Blade has 3 movie on him does that make him one of marvel big guns? The punisher don`t even like most of the heroes in marvel. Sometimes he even goes after them. There a reason why he not apart of any group team.

 

[Spider-Man]

The Punisher don`t even like most of the heroes in marvel. Sometimes he even goes after them. There a reason why he not apart of any group team.

He's not a hero. He's an anti-hero. Marvel doesn't use him as a role-model for kids to follow. He's a man on a mission and it's not the sanest one out there. There's a reason he's hunted by the police and other superheroes are fond of him. No one puts him on the same level as Spider-Man, Wolverine (who also kills, by the way) becuase he's not like them. He's out for vengeance plain and simple. He's not doing it for heroic purposes.

 

[Arsenal]

On the whole, lethal force seems to be less of a concern for Marvel heroes than DC. Many of the X-Men, Elektra, Hulk, Daredevil, and others have all killed under "justifiable" circumstances. Punisher just takes it to a fanatical level where he is as much of a loose cannon as those he hunts.

 

[Donald Duck 12]

Well technically the Punisher is the biggest big "gun."...heh, heh

Really there aren't any big guns from Marvel:

-The Hulk is very oftenly mistaken as a seventies TV monster.
-Wolverine is an X-Man, Cyclops is an X-Man, Storm is and X-Man, mutants are X-Men. Most are great characters, but are don't translate as great on their own.
-Captain America and Daredevil is just semi-recognizable to most people.
-Thor and Iron Man ARE the Avengers as far as the public is concerned. The rest are just there.
-The Fantastic Four pop up in the media a lot, but usually fail there.
-The Punisher has a symbol that teenage boys were on their shirts.
-Namor, Marvel's first, nobody knows who he is.
-Spider-Man is a moneymaking franchise
-Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, and Nick Fury are hardly even big in comics compared to the rest of these. There are several more I haven't covered that are unknown.

Most of these are more recognizable than from DC, but are not real big guns. So whatever...

 

[RAINMAN]

That one good way of putting it DD12.

 

[Zero-V]

Really there aren't any big guns from Marvel


-Spider-Man is a moneymaking franchise

Given how much money he's making, and his role as Marvels' premiere super hero, Spidy IS the "big gun", alongside the X-Men, they are the most profilic of the Marvel heroes, having had more animated series and movies behind thier back than any other hero at this moment, to say Marvel has no "big guns" when those facts speak for themselves is ridiculous.

 

[Donald Duck 12]

But Marvel doesn't have "Big Guns" just good heroes. The X-Men can maybe be recognized, but not named by the mainstream and Spidey is well loved but not always seen a comic book hero. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, and even the Flash and GL are recognized as comic book heroes and media favorites. Spidey and the X-Men are media favorites.

Anyways I don't know the definition of big guns, so bear with me Zero-V!

 

[Chris Wood]

He's not a hero. He's an anti-hero. Marvel doesn't use him as a role-model for kids to follow. He's a man on a mission and it's not the sanest one out there. There's a reason he's hunted by the police and other superheroes are fond of him. No one puts him on the same level as Spider-Man, Wolverine (who also kills, by the way) becuase he's not like them. He's out for vengeance plain and simple. He's not doing it for heroic purposes.

He is a hero, just an extreme one who goes a step further than Daredevil, Spidey, and company. Oh, and it's not vengeance, it's punishment.

But Marvel doesn't have "Big Guns" just good heroes. The X-Men can maybe be recognized, but not named by the mainstream and Spidey is well loved but not always seen a comic book hero. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, and even the Flash and GL are recognized as comic book heroes and media favorites. Spidey and the X-Men are media favorites.

I'm willing to bet that Green Lantern, and maybe Flash and Wonder Woman are today less well recognized than Wolverine, the Hulk, and Blade.