What's wrong with Marvel Animation?

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wonderfly

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Well for the last 10 years, they've been releasing comic books that tied in with the Marvel Cinematic universe (stand alone issues and mini-series that shed light on the heroes and villains in-between their appearances in the movies). I'm just saying: tying a show to the Marvel Cinematic Universe strengthened the Netflix Marvel shows (and Runaways on Hulu). And no, it is not a substitute for good writing or good animation design...

Not really and I think it would cause continuity snarls had that ever happened.
Has "Agents of SHIELD" (and the Peggy Carter TV show) suffered continuity snarls weaving inbetween the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies, over the years? Not really.

Agents of Shield Season 1 was set before "Captain America: The Winter Soldier", Season 2 was set before "Age of Ultron" (and dealt with the fallout from "The Winter Soldier"), Season 3 was set before "Captain America: Civil War" (and dealt with the fallout from "Age of Ultron"), etc...

Not currently, but I heard that Spider Man: The New Animated Series tried tying itself, albeit loosely, to the Sam Raimi films.
Ah yes, the 2003 single season "Spider-Man" cartoon that aired on MTV. That's kind of a good example.

But I'm talking about the Marvel films from 2008 onward...

I'm just surprised: Instead of getting high quality movie tie-ins, we get "Hulk: Agents of SMASH" and "Ultimate Spider-Man" (well, when "Ultimate Spider-Man" was on TV, Spider-Man was with Sony still)...
 

Frontier

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Well for the last 10 years, they've been releasing comic books that tied in with the Marvel Cinematic universe (stand alone issues and mini-series that shed light on the heroes and villains in-between their appearances in the movies). I'm just saying: tying a show to the Marvel Cinematic Universe strengthened the Netflix Marvel shows (and Runaways on Hulu). And no, it is not a substitute for good writing or good animation design...

Has "Agents of SHIELD" (and the Peggy Carter TV show) suffered continuity snarls weaving inbetween the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies, over the years? Not really.

Agents of Shield Season 1 was set before "Captain America: The Winter Soldier", Season 2 was set before "Age of Ultron" (and dealt with the fallout from "The Winter Soldier"), Season 3 was set before "Captain America: Civil War" (and dealt with the fallout from "Age of Ultron"), etc...
I think those tie-ins have more leeway because they don't actually star the main MCU heroes in the movies.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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Has "Agents of SHIELD" (and the Peggy Carter TV show) suffered continuity snarls weaving inbetween the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies, over the years? Not really.
I think you're missing my point. I don't think Avengers Assemble, Hulk and the Agents of SMASH, Ultimate Spider-Man, GOTG animated series and Marvel's Spider-Man would fit in the MCU as like I said, it would cause continuity snarls.
 

wonderfly

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I think you're missing my point. I don't think Avengers Assemble, Hulk and the Agents of SMASH, Ultimate Spider-Man, GOTG animated series and Marvel's Spider-Man would fit in the MCU as like I said, it would cause continuity snarls.
Ah, okay.

Well, respectfully, I think you're missing my point: Instead of making Hulk and the Agents of SMASH, Avengers Assemble, and Ultimate Spider-Man (etc)...they should've been making higher quality productions tied in with the movies.

Something like "The Real Ghostbusters", "Men in Black", or "The Mummy" animated series, or "Star Wars: Clone Wars", or the Aladdin TV series...cartoons that follow up on the events of the movies those cartoons are based upon....
 

Red Arrow

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Something like "The Real Ghostbusters", "Men in Black", or "The Mummy" animated series, or "Star Wars: Clone Wars", or the Aladdin TV series...cartoons that follow up on the events of the movies those cartoons are based upon....
Marvel keeps making new theatrical movies that are all set in the same universe. You can't compare that with Ghostbusters, MIB, The Mummy or even Star Wars. It would be way harder to keep the continuity. Are the creators of the movies supposed to take into account whatever happened in the series when they make a new sequel? And if so, then how will they make that sequel without mentioning anything from the series? Or are all Marvel Cinematic Universe fans supposed to watch the cartoons? That is not going to happen.

Your idea sounds like a marketing disaster. Marvel has become something for the "mainstream" movie fans. Marvel doesn't want to lose those fans.

EDIT: Well, unless you want the Marvel versions of Star Wars: Resistance. Something like that can easily be in continuity, and the movie writers don't have to watch any of it.

EDIT: Besides, several of these cartoons were already in continuity with each other, a bit like DCAU. Imagine Bruce Timm being asked to make everything in continuity with the live-action movies from 1992-2006. It would have ruined everything.
 
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Frontier

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Ah, okay.

Well, respectfully, I think you're missing my point: Instead of making Hulk and the Agents of SMASH, Avengers Assemble, and Ultimate Spider-Man (etc)...they should've been making higher quality productions tied in with the movies.

Something like "The Real Ghostbusters", "Men in Black", or "The Mummy" animated series, or "Star Wars: Clone Wars", or the Aladdin TV series...cartoons that follow up on the events of the movies those cartoons are based upon....
That sounds a lot like the Guardians cartoon, which started off like a continuation of the first movie like those cartoons, only to diverge quite a bit from what the sequels ended up doing.

The Avengers cartoons kind of assume you've seen the movies so they don't really bother explaining certain characters or their context (with Ultron being the most glaring example of this).
 

wonderfly

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Are the creators of the movies supposed to take into account whatever happened in the series when they make a new sequel?
No, of course not. It's just like the "Agents of SHIELD" tv show - the TV show bends to the will of the movies, to reflect what's going on in the movies, not the other way around. I'm just envisioning the same thing for an animated series.

It's really not as hard as you're making it out to be. The movies are the pillars of the universe. The comics, novels, video games and TV shows (both live action and animated) support the pillars with ancillary stories/quests.

Look at "Star Wars: Clone Wars" (the 2003 to 2005 animated series). They let the TV show creators do what they want, they just asked that they end the season by introducing General Grievous. They then approved of a 2nd season (in 2005), again let the show creators do what they want, and they just asked that the 2nd season end with the start of the battle over Coruscant (which is where "Revenge of the Sith" starts).

I'm just imagining: "Avengers" (2012) ends with the formation of the team. The sequel "Age of Ultron" in 2015 ends with the breaking up of the team (well, they're fully broken up by the time of "Captain America: Civil War"). So there's really no adventures of the team presented: They fought Loki, fought Ultron, then went their separate ways.

What if we had a single season cartoon that covered the adventures of the Avengers (as a team) between the first and second Avengers film? Or maybe even more than one season? I mean, "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" (the 2008 cartoon) lasted for 6 seasons, all for an event that occurred over 3 years (in continuity, "The Clone Wars" only lasted for 3 years).

I could also see a "Captain America in World War 2" cartoon. Remember that montage sequence in "Captain America: The First Avenger", showing he fought Hydra over several months? Why not flesh that out and show some of Captain America's WW2 exploits, introduce some of the Hydra/Nazi villains from the comics?

Or an "Avengers" cartoon showing the exiled team's exploits inbetween "Captain America: Civil War" and the start of "Avengers: Infinity War"? They were traveling around the globe in hiding for 2 years, surely they fought some super-villains in that time frame?

Frontier said:
That sounds a lot like the Guardians cartoon, which started off like a continuation of the first movie like those cartoons, only to diverge quite a bit from what the sequels ended up doing.
Yeah, I think it's more they just took the Guardians movie as a starting point and they went their own way. This article quotes the Director of the Guardians of the Galaxy (James Gunn) saying it will NOT be part of the Marvel cinematic universe (the way he adamantly casts off the animated series...way to miss a chance to cross promote, you moron).

It jut seems like a missed opportunity. The Guardians animated series could've worked more closely with the movie department, they could've just ended the Guardians cartoon season with the last episode having the Guardians accept the offer to go fight the monster that we saw at the start of the 2nd "Guardians" movie.

EDIT: I guess I'm just saying, since the Disney merger, Disney has treated the Marvel cartoons as toy advertisements ("pew, pew, pew!" "Check out Captain America's kung fu grip! Winter Soldier sold separately"), rather than as a way to build deeper stories on top of the cinematic universe. It's the exact opposite of what they've done with their Star Wars cartoon line.
 
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Frontier

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Yeah, I think it's more they just took the Guardians movie as a starting point and they went their own way. This article quotes the Director of the Guardians of the Galaxy (James Gunn) saying it will NOT be part of the Marvel cinematic universe (the way he adamantly casts off the animated series...way to miss a chance to cross promote, you moron).

It jut seems like a missed opportunity. The Guardians animated series could've worked more closely with the movie department, they could've just ended the Guardians cartoon season with the last episode having the Guardians accept the offer to go fight the monster that we saw at the start of the 2nd "Guardians" movie.
Personally I think the cartoon worked out better by not having to tie-in to what the movies were doing, since a lot of the major stuff they dealt with (Thanos, Adam Warlock, J'Son) could not have happened if they had to walk around what the movies were doing.

Even characterization-wise it wouldn't have worked since their version of Gamora is closer to her comic personality then the movies.
 

Red Arrow

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Perhaps you're right, I don't know. Characters from Avengers Assemble, Guardians of the Galaxy and Ultimate Spider-Man appeared in each others cartoons, that's another thing that had to be left out if the cartoons were set in the movie universe. Unless you are asking for continuity mistakes.

I can't help but think of The Emperor's New Groove, which had two sequels that contradict each other but could each work as a sequel. The movie creators simply didn't care what was going to happen in the series that was already in production.
 
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Hulkwummy

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How's this for a Shared Marvel Cartoon Universe reboot, and this is just my opinion.

X-Men : Mutation

Iron Man : Hall of Armor

Incredible Hulk : Gamma Wars

Fantastic Four : Cosmic Chronicles ( with Namor and Silver Surfer as Recurring Characters)

Spider-Man : Web Slinging Adventures (with Punisher as Recurring Character)

Thor : God of Thunder

Captain America : Super Soldier

Daredevil : Man without Fear (with Electra as Recurring Character)

Black Panther : King of Wakanda

Ghost Rider : Spirit of Vengeance (with Blade as Recurring Character)
note : Not to be confused with the movie.

Doctor Strange : Sorcerer Supreme

Marvel Ultimate Alliance
note : based on the best selling Video Game Series
 
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TheLemsterPju

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Make of this what you will.
EDIT: Bit the bullet and watched the video. He was surprisingly reasonable and less ranty than he used to be.

He basically said a new X-Men cartoon might be in the works. I don't know what to think of that TBH, but I don't expect a new animated universe. That seems like a stretch.
 
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Troy Troodon

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Not only that, but the guy who runs it (Arnim) has also attacked fans of the DCEU and made curse-filled rants towards different creators (not just the works themselves) he personally doesn't like.
I think he's moved past that. But if you don't like the channel, then I for one can't hold that against you.
 

Frontier

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I'll be honest, I'm not sure if I'm ready for yet another attempt at multiple cartoons set in the same continuity unless Marvel Animation really gets their act together and actually plan it out.
 

wonderfly

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Make of this what you will.
First response: Mind. Blown. That would be awesome!

2nd response: Well, it's just a rumor...and it's not quite the same as what I was talking about. It doesn't sound like it would be tied to the movies.

Perhaps it'd be more like the Netflix shows (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist) all mingling together in a shared universe experience....though the Netflix shows ARE part of the Marvel Cinematic universe - you just won't see Tony Stark stop by Matt Murdock's law office (because it's below Robert Downey Jr's paygrade).

Having said all that: It actually makes sense that they're getting ready to launch another wave of Marvel cartoons. They're in a 5 to 10 year cycle - every 5 to 10 years, they have to start anew.

There was the late 60's Marvel cartoons.

Then the late 70's/early 80's batch (that terrible Fantastic Four cartoon from the late 70's, then Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, and the Incredible Hulk (1982 version)

Then the 90's versions (From 1992's X-Men the Animated Series to Spider-Man Unlimited / Avengers: United They Stand in 1999 - which all had the same art style and a shared universe)

Then the early 2000's versions (the "superhero movie loose tie-ins" era, with shows like "X-Men Evolution", the 2003 Spider-man MTV cartoon, and the "Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes" cartoon).

The late 2000's versions (not necessarily tied to movies): From "Spectacular Spider-Man" to "Wolverine and the X-Men" to "Avengers: Earth's Mightest Heroes"). Lasted from 2008 to 2012.

And since 2012, we've been in the Disney era (starting with "Ultimate Spider-Man"). So yeah, we're in 2019, soon to be in a new decade...it makes sense for them to try and start a new era.
 

Frontier

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And since 2012, we've been in the Disney era (starting with "Ultimate Spider-Man"). So yeah, we're in 2019, soon to be in a new decade...it makes sense for them to try and start a new era.
Especially with the onset of the Disney+ service...
 

RoyalRubble

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Even if they do try to make a shared universe with all the cartoons, I doubt they would try more than 2-3 shows at a time. My guesses would be Avengers, Spider-Man and something new. Maybe X-Men or something, but this is all just speculation at this point.

There's also the theory how every decade (well, since the 80s anyway) should have two different Spider-Man series...
 

Dudley

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I don’t really care about a shared universe between series. I would like a Spider-Man series done like Batman: Brave and the Bold though. Or maybe have it done with the Avengers.
 

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