"WandaVision (Disney+ Limited Series)" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Neo Ultra Mike

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Yeah I touched on that in my review of episode 9 but Frontier pointing it out again does show that they kind of drop the ball on Spectrum or whatever Monica's super hero alias is going to be called first real usage within the MCU. I get this isn't her show and that Wanda and Vision are the main characters so they needed the more epic battles and that "Ralph Boner" is a guy just given these powers who probably isn't really trained at all in how to use them and Monica's still learning hers but seriously that needed to be a bigger fight and a bigger deal especially with how much build up her powers were given especially since after saving the kids she's just on the sidelines for the rest of the show so yeah if she had made a better first impression a hero it wouldn't feel so much as a let down. I know some people have a problem with a show like this jumping to big super hero action but I don't as it was building threats for a reason but they have to you know still feel like major threats and fights when they do happen.

Also after the backlash "Mandarin" got in Iron man 3 from a lot of the core fan base you really think if someone on the writing staff felt inspired to pull that kind of twist in a show they would be dissuaded from doing so. Yeah I get that the focus shouldn't just be on the world building or all of these theories but it also feels uncool to just dink around with the audience too much.
 

Frontier

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Yeah I touched on that in my review of episode 9 but Frontier pointing it out again does show that they kind of drop the ball on Spectrum or whatever Monica's super hero alias is going to be called first real usage within the MCU. I get this isn't her show and that Wanda and Vision are the main characters so they needed the more epic battles and that "Ralph Boner" is a guy just given these powers who probably isn't really trained at all in how to use them and Monica's still learning hers but seriously that needed to be a bigger fight and a bigger deal especially with how much build up her powers were given especially since after saving the kids she's just on the sidelines for the rest of the show so yeah if she had made a better first impression a hero it wouldn't feel so much as a let down. I know some people have a problem with a show like this jumping to big super hero action but I don't as it was building threats for a reason but they have to you know still feel like major threats and fights when they do happen.

Also after the backlash "Mandarin" got in Iron man 3 from a lot of the core fan base you really think if someone on the writing staff felt inspired to pull that kind of twist in a show they would be dissuaded from doing so. Yeah I get that the focus shouldn't just be on the world building or all of these theories but it also feels uncool to just dink around with the audience too much.
I also feel like the Honest Trailer for the series kind of hit at a legitimtae criticism for Monica to where part of her role was a bit to much of the "black best friend" cliche in relation to Wanda.
 

reflection01

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I also feel like the Honest Trailer for the series kind of hit at a legitimtae criticism for Monica to where part of her role was a bit to much of the "black best friend" cliche in relation to Wanda.

Well yeah. The show was full of sitcom cliches. That’s the point. That was “Geraldine.” Monica had no real relationship with Wanda.


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Neo Ultra Mike

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I also feel like the Honest Trailer for the series kind of hit at a legitimtae criticism for Monica to where part of her role was a bit to much of the "black best friend" cliche in relation to Wanda.

That one I do feel a lot of people especially comedic youtubers looking to nitpick this show, are taking out of context. Like maybe if that was the extent of their conversation sure but whenever someone just plays or mentions that particular bit I'm reminded of a quote from Wanda in the Fairy Oddparents "This is Your Wish" episode. You know

"Play the rest of the clip!"

Because the rest of the conversation is about Wanda admitting she knows what she did to the people are awful and they have a right to be mad at her and Monica admitting she would do what Wanda did if it meant having her mom back. As she was feeling EMPATHY towards Wanda and her situation not trying to justify it but understanding where it came from on a level the other townspeople didn't. That doesn't make her a tropey character since yeah as reflection01 pointed out she doesn't really have a relationship at all with Wanda outside of that, but does give them a connection. Again this probably would of flowed better in the ep admittedly if Monica had more to do in the last episode then quickly knock out Ralph and phase through some bullets but they aren't just tropeying her character especially with how the ending sets up for her to be important in other series. And heh if she's major in Secret invasion which will star Nick Fury you can't say "black best friend" in that one.
 

Frontier

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Well yeah. The show was full of sitcom cliches. That’s the point. That was “Geraldine.” Monica had no real relationship with Wanda.


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Yeah, but that extended to outside the sitcom in terms of Monica's actions towards Wanda, more or less.
That one I do feel a lot of people especially comedic youtubers looking to nitpick this show, are taking out of context. Like maybe if that was the extent of their conversation sure but whenever someone just plays or mentions that particular bit I'm reminded of a quote from Wanda in the Fairy Oddparents "This is Your Wish" episode. You know

"Play the rest of the clip!"

Because the rest of the conversation is about Wanda admitting she knows what she did to the people are awful and they have a right to be mad at her and Monica admitting she would do what Wanda did if it meant having her mom back. As she was feeling EMPATHY towards Wanda and her situation not trying to justify it but understanding where it came from on a level the other townspeople didn't. That doesn't make her a tropey character since yeah as reflection01 pointed out she doesn't really have a relationship at all with Wanda outside of that, but does give them a connection. Again this probably would of flowed better in the ep admittedly if Monica had more to do in the last episode then quickly knock out Ralph and phase through some bullets but they aren't just tropeying her character especially with how the ending sets up for her to be important in other series. And heh if she's major in Secret invasion which will star Nick Fury you can't say "black best friend" in that one.
I get that, but in relation to Monica and what Westview went through, it came off kind of tone-deaf and not as flattering to Monica. Empathy can only believably go so far (especially considering what Wanda did), especially when it's talking about something that came at the expense of others (and Wanda never even listened to Monica at all).

She'll be Carol's black best friend in space once we get to Captain Marvel 2 :p.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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Yeah, but that extended to outside the sitcom in terms of Monica's actions towards Wanda, more or less.

I get that, but in relation to Monica and what Westview went through, it came off kind of tone-deaf and not as flattering to Monica. Empathy can only believably go so far (especially considering what Wanda did), especially when it's talking about something that came at the expense of others (and Wanda never even listened to Monica at all).

Well the thing is Monica probably would of been able to talk Wanda down or at least get her to realize she was more in the wrong if it weren't for Agatha messing up. I do admit that Monica allowing Agatha to do that especially if she's at the "if you want to kill me go ahead with that" level could of been handled and written better but I don't think that has as much to do with trying to get Wanda off the hook as much as better pacing out that part of the story. And again there were issues in how they handled Monica's character in this story but I don't think it's as sitcom tropeish or heck even Marvel movie friend tropish as some have said just focusing on one line and not the rest of the conversation.

She'll be Carol's black best friend in space once we get to Captain Marvel 2 :p.

Well as even this show pointed out though they are going to have to come to blows likely over the fact that Carol left for years upon years even when Maria had died that yeah are going to have to be answered for that makes me think that relationship is going to obviously have it's complexities in that movie. Plus I think the part of overly exited wanting to be friends and just help out will go to Kamala Kahn in that movie.
 

Frontier

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Well the thing is Monica probably would of been able to talk Wanda down or at least get her to realize she was more in the wrong if it weren't for Agatha messing up. I do admit that Monica allowing Agatha to do that especially if she's at the "if you want to kill me go ahead with that" level could of been handled and written better but I don't think that has as much to do with trying to get Wanda off the hook as much as better pacing out that part of the story. And again there were issues in how they handled Monica's character in this story but I don't think it's as sitcom tropeish or heck even Marvel movie friend tropish as some have said just focusing on one line and not the rest of the conversation.
Wanda still seemed pretty determined even with all of Monica's prodding. "Maybe I am a villain." It was only really Agatha throwing into her face what the people of Westview were really going through that Wanda finally agreed to stop it.

I agree it's less of a trope issue and more just an issue with Monica in this instance being used as a Wanda supporting character and needing to, well, support Wanda (even if the support ends up going to someone who was ultimately at felt).
Well as even this show pointed out though they are going to have to come to blows likely over the fact that Carol left for years upon years even when Maria had died that yeah are going to have to be answered for that makes me think that relationship is going to obviously have it's complexities in that movie. Plus I think the part of overly exited wanting to be friends and just help out will go to Kamala Kahn in that movie.
I get there will probably be friction, and Kamala is another dynamic in play, but I think Monica's role will be pretty firmly set within Carol's overall story.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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Wanda still seemed pretty determined even with all of Monica's prodding. "Maybe I am a villain." It was only really Agatha throwing into her face what the people of Westview were really going through that Wanda finally agreed to stop it.

Well if Agatha didn't feel that Monica talking to Wanda wouldn't of worked at all she wouldn't of so directly interfered. It does seem like only so deeply delving into Wanda's issue like Agatha did really fixed the problem but yeah remember also Monica was trying to solve the issue for the sake of the people as well and knew it was better to try and talk and not agitate Wanda as this was ultimately Wanda's story...

I agree it's less of a trope issue and more just an issue with Monica in this instance being used as a Wanda supporting character and needing to, well, support Wanda (even if the support ends up going to someone who was ultimately at felt).

I get there will probably be friction, and Kamala is another dynamic in play, but I think Monica's role will be pretty firmly set within Carol's overall story.

And we may only get Monica's story in focus more down the line. The thing is with this series and especially after seeing the first episode of Falcon and Winter Soldier Marvel is doing the wise thing in expanding it's universe by having new characters to give focus and attention to and that may wind up being Monica down the road at some point. I doubt Disney would be totally against that idea especially if people would be into it, and yeah that would attract a crowd. I mean people seemed into of all things a Jimmy Woo and Darcy show if there was a Monica show or feature there'd be an investment but yeah going to have to wait for that one down the line.
 

Frontier

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Well if Agatha didn't feel that Monica talking to Wanda wouldn't of worked at all she wouldn't of so directly interfered. It does seem like only so deeply delving into Wanda's issue like Agatha did really fixed the problem but yeah remember also Monica was trying to solve the issue for the sake of the people as well and knew it was better to try and talk and not agitate Wanda as this was ultimately Wanda's story...
I think Agatha definitely saw her as someone who was upsetting the balance of things since she was from the "real world" and could directly confront Wanda, but we also didn't really see Monica's words to Wanda really effect her beyond sticking to her guns about Westview. Talking to Wanda didn't really work because she was too stubborn and entrenched into her ideal fantasy in Westview until Agatha pulled the rug out from under her.
And we may only get Monica's story in focus more down the line. The thing is with this series and especially after seeing the first episode of Falcon and Winter Soldier Marvel is doing the wise thing in expanding it's universe by having new characters to give focus and attention to and that may wind up being Monica down the road at some point. I doubt Disney would be totally against that idea especially if people would be into it, and yeah that would attract a crowd. I mean people seemed into of all things a Jimmy Woo and Darcy show if there was a Monica show or feature there'd be an investment but yeah going to have to wait for that one down the line.
I don't think we're at a point with Disney+ where everyone gets a spinoff, but I'd be down for a Monica show :).

Let's just not give her any reality-bending powers :p.
 

Rick Jones

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Well yeah. The show was full of sitcom cliches. That’s the point. That was “Geraldine.” Monica had no real relationship with Wanda.


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Her mannerisms in Episode 3 felt like such a spot on impression of Willona from Good Times, the neighbor and family friend, to me. I thought that was great.

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RoyalRubble

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Missed this earlier, and it's kind of a minor point, looking through the WonderCon schedule, there will also be a WandaVision related virtual panel on March 26 at 11:00 am PT.
FGGGbT: A Scientific Look at WandaVision
Daniel J. Glenn (podcaster), Dr. Michael Dennin (physicist), and Ben Siepser (neurological engineer) will explain the scientific principles and cutting-edge technology behind the Marvel show WandaVision, including pocket dimensions, telekinetic powers, mind control, and a gem-powered android. We will also touch on our favorite sitcoms featured on the show.
 

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