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DonkeyKongSong

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I like The Proud Family, but I think it's overrated. I recently started watching it, and I can see its charm, but I feel like some of the things it's compared to... it's not really all that much better than. Dijonay and Stinky still speak in that stereotypical "black" speak that people chided Da Boom Crew for, and I don't understand why Penny and Dijonay hang out with LaCienega. That mean girl trope makes so little sense here, and it's something Disney's live-action tweencoms are often chided for, especially the later ones, but Austin and Ally and Coop and Cami Ask the World have done away with this trope completely. You could argue it's been getting a lot of attention lately due to the BLM movement, but the ongoing praise for it predated all this stuff.

The 2004 The Batman series is not bad. What might help is that when it was airing, I judged it completely on its own. I could not compare it to Batman: The Animated Series, as I hadn't seen it in almost a decade at the time, and had no cable or job to buy DVDs with to refresh my memory of it. But after seeing BTAS later, then watching TB again... I still like it. I can see why people think it's inferior, but I still think it has its own charm.
 

PageEmperor

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Jul 1, 2020
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- It pains me to say this, because for approximately 7 years I was the only member of my family who cared about animated film, but as of now, I despise the medium of non-Pixar animated films. Why Pixar is excluded, because the people behind it care about the movies they put out and are actually sensible and appeal to everyone and not just kids. I just really can't stand every animated film not produced by Pixar since I turned 20. They all look the same thing to me, and by same, I mean pandering, uneducational, creepy, and unrelatable.

- When I said Wishful Life is not the worst Fairly Oddparents episode in my thread, I really meant it. Yes, I still don't like it, and I know it has an atrocious message, but it at least had SOME pretty solid jokes, an interesting concept even if with flawed execution, and the 'not exactly' running gag was funny.
 
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Darklordavaitor

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Which series do you think are worse than those? I'm willing to listen to you. Mostly because while those examples I listed failed to entertain me personally, I admit I'm overlooking much worse shows... Such as Kick Buttowski and Billey Dilley's Super Duper Subterranean Summer, which more than deserve to replace what I said in the first place, now that I'm allowed to think about things more clearly.

I still want to hear what shows from Disney TV you consider worse, though. Really sell me on why they fail.
Let's see, looking up Disney's television animated series:

-Shnoonkums and Meat
-Timon & Pumbaa
-Quack Pack
-Mighty Ducks
-Disney's Doug
-101 Dalmatians
-Lloyd in Space
-The Legend of Tarzan
-Teamo Supremo
-Lilo & Stitch: The Series
-Brandy & Mr. Whiskers
-You mentioned The Buzz on Maggie
-The Replacements
-The Emperor's New School
-Phineas and Ferb (unpopular opinion, but I digress)
-Fish Hooks

Again, neither The Proud Family nor American Dragon were perfect, but both offered diversity to viewers back when animation needed some. The Proud Family occasionally discussed privilege and prejudice, while American Dragon had a strong backbone of continuity and character development when shows like it and Avatar were the exception rather than the rule, as they are now. Neither show 100% succeeded in what they did, but it looks kind of absurd to call them the worst that Disney made, even if you're not a fan.
 

Light Lucario

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I like The Proud Family, but I think it's overrated. I recently started watching it, and I can see its charm, but I feel like some of the things it's compared to... it's not really all that much better than. Dijonay and Stinky still speak in that stereotypical "black" speak that people chided Da Boom Crew for, and I don't understand why Penny and Dijonay hang out with LaCienega. That mean girl trope makes so little sense here, and it's something Disney's live-action tweencoms are often chided for, especially the later ones, but Austin and Ally and Coop and Cami Ask the World have done away with this trope completely. You could argue it's been getting a lot of attention lately due to the BLM movement, but the ongoing praise for it predated all this stuff.
I honestly don't understand why Penny and Dijonay were friends. LaCienega was the typical mean girl of the friend group, but Dijonay was a pretty terrible and downright toxic friend from what I remember. I kind of wonder if they'll address that in the continuation or have Dijonay mature into a better friend for Penny.

DonkeyKongFan said:
The 2004 The Batman series is not bad. What might help is that when it was airing, I judged it completely on its own. I could not compare it to Batman: The Animated Series, as I hadn't seen it in almost a decade at the time, and had no cable or job to buy DVDs with to refresh my memory of it. But after seeing BTAS later, then watching TB again... I still like it. I can see why people think it's inferior, but I still think it has its own charm.
I like The Batman series too. I can see why it doesn't get as much attention compared to most of the other Batman series. It isn't perfect by any means and being compared to BTAS definitely didn't help, but I thought it was a generally fun and interesting take on Batman and its cast of characters. It feels pretty underrated compared to a lot of DC animated series, both in and outside of the DCAU.

Let's see, looking up Disney's television animated series:

-Shnoonkums and Meat
-Timon & Pumbaa
-Quack Pack
-Mighty Ducks
-Disney's Doug
-101 Dalmatians
-Lloyd in Space
-The Legend of Tarzan
-Teamo Supremo
-Lilo & Stitch: The Series
-Brandy & Mr. Whiskers
-You mentioned The Buzz on Maggie
-The Replacements
-The Emperor's New School
-Phineas and Ferb (unpopular opinion, but I digress)
-Fish Hooks

Again, neither The Proud Family nor American Dragon were perfect, but both offered diversity to viewers back when animation needed some. The Proud Family occasionally discussed privilege and prejudice, while American Dragon had a strong backbone of continuity and character development when shows like it and Avatar were the exception rather than the rule, as they are now. Neither show 100% succeeded in what they did, but it looks kind of absurd to call them the worst that Disney made, even if you're not a fan.
Yeah, I can definitely understand not liking either series. I don't recall liking Proud Family that much myself. Oscar was a bit too loud and annoying, especially in later episodes, but it was usually still pretty watchable and offering more diversity in animation is always good. American Dragon was pretty mixed bag in terms of overall quality, but I don't think it was really boring, at least not for too long, and it did genuinely improve during season two. There are plenty of other Disney Channel animated series that I really didn't care for and that I thought were far worse than The Proud Family or American Dragon.
 

Darklordavaitor

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Now in terms of some opinions of my own:

-On the one hand, I do admire how Pixar and Dreamworks have made their mark in the industry, and have helped to remove Disney's monopoly from the animated feature market (yes, I know Pixar is a part of Disney... hear me out). The more studios that are making animated films and thriving, the better.

But on the other hand, too many of western-made features are still copying from Shrek, and almost 20 years on, it's really time to try something different. Similarly, while the unquestionable worst thing that John Lasseter brought over to Pixar and Disney is a toxic, uncomfortable work environment, the next worst thing he was responsible for is the buddy comedy formula that they've been recycling since Toy Story. Both studios can and should do better.

-Serialization in animated shows is nice, but isn't and shouldn't be the only way to gain a following outside of their demographics. Sometimes a middle ground between continuity and episodic storytelling works just as well, while in other cases having a purposefully spotty continuity can be just as fun. I feel as if the success and followings of Avatar, Gravity Falls, and Steven Universe, for instance, are making it seem like the only way for an animated show can obtain a loyal following nowadays is to focus on long-form storytelling, when I'd argue that if every series functions like this, it'd become tiresome.

-With streaming allowing for more outlets to release programming nowadays, we're getting more and more series worth checking out on a consistent basis. Which is good, because there's always something exciting and different to check out. But not only can it make trying to catch up with the zeitgeist harder (although I have noticed that there have been fewer "must-watch" series in the past few years), it's also going to make attention spans shorter. Quality series from the past might get forgotten, and it's easier to forget a show you recently binge watched for the next thing.
 

creator

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Apr 19, 2020
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Pixar continues to create some of the most beautiful animated work, but the writing leaves much to be desired. They've found a formula for critical praise: exploitation of sadness. It usually involves character deaths past or present or some form of missing home. It feels like forced emotion. In comparison, the sadness in Ghibli movies (an influence on Pixar movies) is often more intimate and introspective, more lingering and contemplative. In Ghibli movies it's not always what is said or done that makes a moment beautiful or sad... silence can also be powerful. I wish Pixar would take note.
 

Darklordavaitor

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Got another one-

I see some criticize cynicism in cartoons, primarily for ones made for younger audiences, but you know what? A little pessimism is good, and important. Everybody has a bad day. Life doesn't always work out as planned, and you don't always win. Sometimes Oscar the Grouch is more relatable than Big Bird or Elmo. And that's okay. You should be able to learn that your feelings are valid, and that even though the universe isn't in your favor, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with occasionally going into that world.

I do understand how excessive pessimism can be a problem, though. If a character isn't thrown a bone every now and then, it can be tiresome, and downright sad. Excessive optimism is also a problem- it's boring and kind of fake to see someone always win. But some series and characters do admittedly work better on one side of the card than another, so while I'd say a happy balance is always best, that may not always be the case. Batman wins a majority of the time, but not always, and that's good. Meanwhile, the Eds often fail, but things can go well for them pretty often too. And I don't think there's anything wrong with either.
 

Leviathan

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To be fair, there are some Spumco episodes that are paced just fine- Fire Dogs, In the Army, Black Hole, Mad Dog Hoek- hey, wait a sec, three of those four were directed by Bob Camp, who was in charge at Games. Hmmmmm....
Bob Camp gets an unfortunate bad rap because he had to run the show during the Games years in addition to writing and directing (and the Games people often weren't allowed or given enough time to rework weak ideas). But he really is one of the best comedy writers in animation.
 
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AdrenalineRush1996

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May 13, 2016
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Never understood why people say Klasky-Csupo has an ugly art style. Outside of As Told By Ginger, and some hiccups in the first season of The Simpsons and Rugrats, all their shows look perfectly fine.
Me neither. Rugrats, All Grown Up, The Wild Thornberries, Rocket Power and As Told by Ginger were part of my childhood and if it weren't for Rugrats, Nickelodeon wouldn't have become a dominating force in cable television during the Nineties as part of the Big Three with the other two being Cartoon Network and Disney Channel.

I always preferred Cartoon Network's 2004 logo over their current logo, not to mention the CN City branding.
 

Zanneck

HAIL NEO ARCADIA!
Sep 26, 2011
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DCSHG (2019) is crap and the only thing I like about it is the art-style. All the blatant sexism on display in it isn't just bad, it's embarrassing / pathetic.
I was never an MLP fan (and to this day I'm sorry I lied to myself about ever liking that, either.), but compared to that, DCSHG is sadly nothing but bad at what it's trying to do or say, all the while putting a pretty face on it, which is worse.

At least TTG! is honest about what it is and why it is, even if that ain't my up of tea, either - which is why I've grown to respect it (TTG!), despite how lacking (specifically/especially in writing quality/effective comedy) as all-get-out that show is, too.
 
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TheCartoonRailfan

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For some reason, I could never get into Avatar: The Last Airbender. In my opinion, the show didn't appeal to me. Maybe it's because I remember regular anime instead when it comes to overall storyline.

Milo Murphy's Law is so much better than Phineas and Ferb when it comes to overall writing and character development. For some reason, I could never understand why people don't rave about the former.

Disney's Doug was not bad at all in my opinion. Instead of 11 minutes for Nickelodeon, the episodes were expanded to 22 minutes which allowed greater focus on the characters. The art style for Disney was just fine.
 

Dr.Pepper

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When it comes to Doug, I actually prefer the Disney version. I’m not really a big fan of Doug but I watched the Disney version more because when I first got Toon Disney it was what came on at dinner time. The strange thing is, if someone were to ask me to describe the series, I will combine the two versions in my head. I mostly imagine the characters to look like the Nick version, but have the relationships and dynamics of the Disney version.
 
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Pooky

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I do think a lot of it's reputation is related to the audience ageing between the two shows. I don't know if it was a great show, but there are a few episodes I remember as if I had seen them a couple of months ago rather than 20 years ago, which I can't say for every show.
 

Mostezli

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I can't wait for this lineup of CN/WBA to expire. It's predominantly inferior ripoffs shadowing what they cancelled/concluded/still have ongoing or in the case of Looney Tunes & Scooby Doo, they're pastiches to demand from presumably decent-good writers/artists to subsist on nostalgic laziness.
Prediction: Cartoon Network/Warner Bros. Animation trends to even more "adult"-skewing content
as the Y7 material unwittingly becomes more "pre-K" than it already has.

Nickelodeon with their slow & steady, the traditional cable market is going under,
learned the right lessons from the previous decade
and produced superior versions of their most contested early 2010 shows - Sanjay & Craig / Breadwinners.
I am somehow really optimistic for their immediate future based off of just that.
Same goes for the never not maligned SonyPA.

I don't hold any unpopular/unconventional opinions toward Disney on tv.
Aside from Marvel & conditionally Star Wars, they put more creative effort / take more creative risks with their pre-existing IPs than they do with the original stuff (BCG/Amph/OH) and it's likely the push toward D+ means what they'll call "original" there is going to be another pre-existing IP.
With movies, on the other hand, people distinguish their & Pixar's output from everyone else.
In recent years, I don't. I was ecstatic for their prospects in the early-mid 2010s.
Everyone else, including Illumination, has since innovated their storytelling
whereas Disney/Pixar subsisted in rote mediocrity. Perhaps Blue Skies becomes their avenue for more.
Fingers crossed they don't have to make a Disney Princess movie under the 20th CA label.
 
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