Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Return to the Spider-Verse, Parts 1-4" Talkback (Spoilers)

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RoyalRubble

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I thought Part 2 of the new Spider-Verse arc was another good installment.

- Web-Beard the Spider-Pirate

A pretty decent adventure. The character designs were neat though it would have been nice if they weren't so cartoon-y. It was pretty much the equivalent of last year's Spider-Ham dimension but that one at least had an excuse for such a style since it was mimicking the classic Looney Tunes cartoons. The only thing I can think of in Web-Beard's world that would warrant such a style would be the existence of those anthropomorphic characters like Howard the Duck, Rocket & Cosmo.

Still I enjoyed it for the most part, thanks to the voice acting and nice action scenes. The humor was hit or miss but it worked. Overall I liked this more than Spider-Ham's appearance from the last Spider-Verse arc, which was probably my least favorite of the alternate Spider-Men used there. Though to be fair, by the looks of things Web-Beard might just end up my least favorite alternate Spidey from this arc as well.

One more thing - it's kind of funny but I was just watching some Duck Dodgers episodes the other day and this quote from "Hooray for Hollywood Planet " pretty much applies to this segment as well: "This is an action comedy starring a cartoon duck. Nobody cares about the story!" :p

- Webslinger the Cowboy-Spider-Man

My favorite of the two segments. I liked the design of the Western world, complete with the looks for the characters. Not only the major players, but even the people seen in the background. I thought that was neat. The Webslinger himself was a pretty cool character, reminiscent of some classic Western characters who wear masks and have some mysterious backgrounds. I agree they could have delved into his character some more but overall I was pleased with how they handled him.

Doc Ock Holiday (great name!) was a pretty good opponent for this segment. His design looked nice and the way he used futuristic tech in a Wild West setting reminded me of the first season finale of Justice League Unlimited. I liked how they mentioned he was able to defeat Wolf Spider, which I thought was an interesting and unexpected twist. I was slightly disappointed we didn't get to see how he managed that, but at the same time I find it pretty cool they're not squeezing Wolf Spider into every episode of this arc. Same goes for Doc Ock himself.

Phantom Rider was cool as well and the big reveal about his real identity was handled well. I wasn't expecting him to be that world's Uncle Ben, pretty awesome stuff. They didn't exactly explain how he got all those super-powers while under Ock's control (I'm guessing that Shard had something to do with it), but I liked how his appearance there affected both Webslinger and our very own Spidey as well. A pretty touching moment and nice way to end the story.

All things considered, good stuff. Spidey and Miles teaching others morals and stuff like that there could get boring after a while, but I thought these two episodes so far have managed to pull it off well enough. Looking forward to the next part!
 

Gold Guy

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I thought part 1 was pretty good. A vampire hunter Spider-Man was interesting (but Blade not appearing was a wasted opportunity), and Wolf Spider was cool.

Part 2 wasn't as strong. The pirate stuff got a bit too silly, and the western, while not bad, was just never very engaging for me. And Ock beat Wolf Spider off-screen? Huh.
 

Roxas_Sora

Well-Known Member
You know?, I didn't think about it until now; but I think "Spider-Verse" could actually become a history about "Spider-Man in Disneyland". Just think about these similarities:

+ "Spider-Man 2099 - Tomorrowland": In the first time Spidey visited this world, he even mentioned that it looked like some "futuristic Tomorrowland".
+ "Spider-Ham - Mickey's Toontown": Obviously, with antropomorphic cartoonish animals.
+ "Spyder-Knight - Fantasyland": It can match with fairy tales like Cinderella, The Sword in the Stone, the Sleeping Beauty and others. Just check out the collection "Marvel Fairy Tales".
+ "Blood Spider - new Orleans Square": This could be based on its main and most popular attraction, the Haunted Mansion.
+ "Web Beard - Adventureland": OK, I admit this world was really cartoonish, but the idea of a Spider-Pirate could work for a crossover with Pirates of the Caribbean.
+ "Webslinger - Frontierland": Obviously, a Western world matches with Frontierland.
+ "Spider Noir - Main Street USA": Not entirely sure about this one, but the times from which Walt Disney based this area could match to the era of Marvel Noir, back in the 1920's or 1930's.

Well, what do you think?
 

RoyalRubble

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Catch a new episode of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, tonight at 8:00PM ET on Disney XD! Tune in for the third part of an epic four-part adventure through the Spider-Verse, featuring all-new and all-different alternate versions of Spidey!

Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Return to the Spider-Verse, Part 3"
Episode Debut - September 10th, 2016
Directed by: Jae Woo Kim
Written by: Henry Gilroy

Spider-Man and Kid Arachnid arrive in the Noir Universe where they have to prevent Mr. Negative from using the Siege Perilous to drain all the life and color out of the world.

* Milo Ventimiglia (“Gilmore Girls”) guest stars as Spider-Man Noir. Seth Green (“Family Guy”) guest stars as Rick Jones and A-Bombardier.

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Additionally, please use spoiler space when discussing upcoming "Return to the Spider-Verse" installments that have yet to officially debut in the US on Disney XD, Ultimate Spider-Man's home network. Don't ruin it for those checking out these episodes out for the first time! Disciplinary action will be taken if necessary. Let's have fun and enjoy this Ultimate Spider-Man event!
 
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Frontier

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Returning to Spider-Man Noir's world, let alone dedicating a whole episode to it, would not have been one of my first choices in doing a second Spider-Verse (especially given how underdeveloped 2099's world was compared to the comic), but I thought this episode did a good job of expanding on Noir's world while still making good use of the period aesthetic and lingo for some fun dialogue and scenes. It also allowed for the introduction of some notable Marvel characters who fit perfectly into the world of Spider-Man Noir ;).

That billboard is probably the closest we'll get to seeing Jameson this season :sweat:.

It was nice seeing Noir again, even if he did feel regressed from all the character development in his last appearance (not that they didn't justify it). Watching Noir in action, it kind of feel like he has a lot of the traditional Spidey attitude and headstrong nature that USM Peter is generally lacking, though it usually comes across more brutal with Noir. Milo Ventimiglia, reprising from the original Spider-Verse, once again sounded fine in the role, but there were times where his performance felt a little off. Maybe it was just more apparent in an episode that also had Christopher Daniel Barnes, who did such a great job as Spider-Man Noir in the Shattered Dimensions game :ack:?

Speaking of Barnes, Wolf-Spider sure isn't proving very successful in his quest for the Siege Perilous crystals...heck, you could've taken him out of this episode and nothing would've really been lost. At least the Goblin was a pretty major threat throughout the original Spider-Verse arc :shrug:.

I've been thinking to myself about this lately, and it seemed most apparent in this episode with the gang war going on, but USM has really never focused on Spidey as a street-level hero fighting organized crime at all. It's always been "big threats" or "world/city-ending Supervillains," rather then the more down-to-Earth stuff (relatively speaking) which is usually Spider-Man's bread and butter. Just another indication of how USM is a bit of a deviation from the usual portrayal of Spider-Man and his world...

Using the Noir universe to introduce Grey Hulk/Joe Fixit into the cartoons was a brilliant move, especially since it allowed Fred Tatasciore to finally voice Grey Hulk, and using the Agents of SMASH as his gang was also cool (and maybe even the best use of the Agents of SMASH in their entire existence). That said , it kind of felt like they had missed the point of Fixit, in that he's supposed to be a completely separate personality from the normal Hulk, with a different characterization and way of talking, while here he was basically the main universe Hulk in the suit. I was also disappointed Tatasciore didn't try to add more of a gangster-style accent to his Hulk voice :sad:.

I guess it worked for the episodes main conflict, Spidey proving that Fixit was just as misunderstood and heroic as the main Hulk (even though he actually was a gangster/criminal in this universe), and in the end it turned out he really was a green Hulk, not a grey one :rolleyes2:.

It's a good thing Noir and Fixit patched things up given they took Fixit to this Peter's apartment, revealing where he lived. It probably would have been pretty inconvenient for The Spider if they remained enemies afterwards :eek:.

Holy crud, they got Jon Polito (RIP) to voice Hammerhead? That's perfect casting! It's a shame Hammerhead didn't really get to do very much in this episode, because not only did he have a celebrity VA but he got a fairly good showing here what with being able to go a few rounds with Joe Fixit :cool:.

Poor Miles complains about being a sidekick and ends up being stuck as a stone statue for a good portion of the episode. At least he had that funny scene of trying to talk like a 60's gangster :anime:.

I also found it funny that the Noir universe doesn't even know the concept of certain colors, and that Noir tried to forget about the end of the original Spider-Verse :p.

The show finally debuts Mr. Negative (so Wacker can check another thing off his "to-do list"), which was neat, and I thought it was a cool introducing a villain who's gimmick is photo-negativity into a world of only black and grey. That said, I wasn't really crazy about his handling in this episode, because it really didn't match my image of the character from the comics at all. For one, while I have to give them props for giving him an actual Asian VA, Keone Young sounded a little too old for Mr. Negative, and he was a lot more hammier here then he generally is in the comics. Mr. Negative always seemed like a very subdued and cool personality in the comics, the same comics Wacker himself edited, whereas he was the exact opposite in this episode o_O.

Fixit vs. Hammerhead, Noir vs. Fixit in his apartment building, and the Spiders taking on Mr. Negative in the theater were some pretty fun and cool action sequences :D.

The USM crew certainly don't seem to mind adding to the VA budget, even for what amounts to cameos. I mean, it was cool that they brought in Clancy Brown and Seth Green to reprise their roles as Ross and Rick (albeit as their Noir counterparts), though they only said like one or two lines a piece. But I guess as a whole in Spider-Verse we also had Green playing Howard and Brown as Webslinger's Uncle Ben, so they at least weren't just in the booth for a few seconds :).

Though nowhere is this more egregious then in Tara Strong only having one line (and barely that) as Lois La...I mean, Noir!MJ, which almost feels kinda Meta given how underutilized and practically wasted Strong and Mary Jane have been on this show for the most part :(.

And in one fell swoop they completely robbed the Noir universe of one of its coolest and stylistic aspects. Good going guys :rolleyes:.
 
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JoeMabbon

Mantis Bandleader
Speaking of Barnes, Wolf-Spider sure isn't proving very successful in his quest for the Siege Perilous crystals...heck, you could've taken him out of this episode and nothing would've really been lost. At least the Goblin was a pretty major threat throughout the original Spider-Verse arc :shrug:.
Goblin felt kinda invincible last time because no matter what happened, he always came out on top. I guess they wanted to avoid that with Wolf, but despite an impressive introduction he hasn't actually accomplished anything since then.

I've been thinking to myself about this lately, and it seemed most apparent in this episode with the gang war going on, but USM has really never focused on Spidey as a street-level hero fighting organized crime at all. It's always been "big threats" or "world/city-ending Supervillains," rather then the more down-to-Earth stuff (relatively speaking) which is usually Spider-Man's bread and butter. Just another indication of how USM is a bit of a deviation from the usual portrayal of Spider-Man and his world...
That's one of the reasons this adaptation feels so generic compared to others.

and maybe even the best use of the Agents of SMASH in their entire existence.
Sad but true.

The show finally debuts Mr. Negative (so Wacker can check another thing off his "to-do list"), which was neat, and I thought it was a cool introducing a villain who's gimmick is photo-negativity into a world of only black and grey. That said, I wasn't really crazy about his handling in this episode, because it really didn't match my image of the character from the comics at all. For one, while I have to give them props for giving him an actual Asian VA, Keone Young sounded a little too old for Mr. Negative, and he was a lot more hammier here then he generally is in the comics. Mr. Negative always seemed like a very subdued and cool personality in the comics, the same comics Wacker himself edited, whereas he was the exact opposite in this episode o_O.
Yeah, making him a power-mad maniac didn't really work for me either.

And in one fell swoop they completely robbed the Noir universe of one of its coolest and stylistic aspects. Good going guys :rolleyes:.
I don't usually give this show the benefit of the doubt, but maybe this is how Noir moves into Pulp...
 

Frontier

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Mr.Negative:
- Sweet Asian voice actor
- A bit too cartoonish and hammy, Mr.Negative should an arc villain imo.
I appreciate that they got an Asian VA to voice him, but Keone Young sounded a little too old for the character and the way they were characterizing him. James Sie would've been a more sensible choice for the character, in my opinion.

Mr. Negative is probably too much of a street-level villain to dedicate an arc to, at least on USM :shrug:.
 

RoyalRubble

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Spider-Man Noir was one of my favorite dimensions visited in last year's Spider-Verse arc so I was happy to see it again, this time in a full half-hour adventure.

- The additions of gangsters like Hammerhead and Hulk's Joe Fixit persona were nice touches though neither was really used to its full potential. Hammerhead got taken out pretty fast and Fixit was basically the normal Hulk, and we got a classic misunderstood monster story as well. It's kind of weird but I think the second season of the 90s Hulk animated series managed to pull off a better story with the Grey Hulk as a gangster ("They Call Me Mr. Fixit").
- Seeing Ross and Rick Jones (in human forms) again was nice, same goes for the inclusion of Mr. Negative. I'm not really familiar with the character so I can't say for sure if he was true to his comic book self, but I thought he was handled pretty well here. He got a little too mad with power by the end but I guess they needed a way to show how powerful those Shards are.
- Wolf Spider's cameo was cool though this is the second time (as far as we know) where a villain manages to scare him away before retrieving the Shard. To be fair, it's possible he has gathered some more since I have no idea how many Shards actually are and I'm expecting him to make a big come-back in the final part of the arc.
- The flashback that revealed what happened to Noir Mary Jane was pretty surprising. As well as tragic. It's a shame they removed her completely from this universe, MJs don't really have the best luck in any continuity but I think down-right killing her is worse than ignoring her (like this show has for so many episodes). I admit it did help make Noir Spidey go through some more drama and also give him a reason to not trust Fixit.
- I liked some of the gags - Miles talking like a gangster, Noir Spidey having no idea what colors are, and laughing at Fixit mentioning Spidey's plan was stupid. Turning the Noir universe into a colorful world was a pretty interesting way to end the adventure, but it seemed rather unnecessary to me.

All in all, a pretty good episode. They could have done a lot more with some of the characters but what we got was still decent and entertaining enough. Here's hoping the last part won't disappoint.
 

TheLemsterPju

Well-Known Member
Killing off Noir MJ felt a little like the "Women in Refrigerators" trope at first. Though I'll give this the benefit of the doubt, as MJ was still remembered and the "revenge" part was never carried through. If anything, she died saving people and the flashback led to Noir Spidey ultimately trusting Fixit. It's more of a "Lost Lenore" trope to me, since her death had relevance to the overall story and not just a throw-away thing.
 

Frontier

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Honestly, it never struck my mind that Lois-I mean, Noir!MJ was dead, because they were vague enough about it that I just assumed she was in the hospital with injuries from the accident :ack:.

If she was dead, I'd think The Spider would have been out for blood rather then just let Hammerhead and Fixit finish each other off. He was far more restrained then I'd expect from a Spider-Man who lost the woman he loved...

I did think it was cool how they replicated the pose from the cover for the King-Sized Hulk special in the flashback :cool:.
Killing off Noir MJ felt a little like the "Women in Refrigerators" trope at first. Though I'll give this the benefit of the doubt, as MJ was still remembered and the "revenge" part was never carried through. If anything, she died saving people and the flashback led to Noir Spidey ultimately trusting Fixit. It's more of a "Lost Lenore" trope to me, since her death had relevance to the overall story and not just a throw-away thing.
Well, Wacker certainly has a history of fridging or badly treating female Spider-Man supporting cast members :rolleyes:.
 

Roxas_Sora

Well-Known Member
Very good episode for me. I just hope that, if they return to this reality again, there will be a hint that MJ-Noir could be not so dead as people think.
 

RoyalRubble

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Catch a new episode of Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six, tonight at 8:00PM ET on Disney XD! Tune in for the fourth and final part of an epic adventure through the Spider-Verse, featuring all-new and all-different alternate versions of Spidey!

Ultimate Spider-Man Vs the Sinister Six "Return to the Spider-Verse, Part 4"
Episode Debut - September 17th, 2016
Directed by: Roy Burdine
Written by: Kevin Burke & Chris "Doc" Wyatt

Spider-Man, having collected all of the shards of the Siege Perilous, returns to Miles Morales’ universe and finally confronts Wolf Spider.

* Dove Cameron (“Descendants”) guest stars as Spider-Gwen.

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Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use spoiler space when discussing upcoming episodes that have yet to officially debut in the US on Disney XD, Ultimate Spider-Man's home network. Don't ruin it for those checking out these episodes out for the first time! Disciplinary action will be taken if necessary. Let's have fun and enjoy this Ultimate Spider-Man event!
 
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Frontier

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I though this was a pretty good conclusion to the second Spider-Verse arc, even if I had my issues with it. Still, plenty of fun moments and solid action, which is always nice to have in a Spider-Man cartoon :).

I wasn't expecting them to combine Miles and Spider-Gwen's world, but it explains why they didn't change the universes aesthetic to match the style of Robbi Rodriguez from the comics. It also feels kind of funny that they put them in the same Earth given it looks like the comics will be pairing the two up in the future :p.

Spider-Gwen makes her long-teased debut in USM, and the first appearance of Gwen Stacy in that role in animation, and I thought overall it was okay. It wasn't really the Spider-Gwen from the comics, what with her visual aesthetic missing, her backstory completely changed to where she doesn't even have proper spider powers, no mention of her being a drummer, needing Aunt May of all people to support her while fighting crime, and not being the original Spider of her universe. About the only things she had common with Earth-65 Gwen Stacy was her look (which is basically the traditional Gwen Stacy look), conflict with her dad, being misunderstood by the police, being snarky like a Spider, being friends with that world's Peter Parker, and that playing at least some role in her becoming Spider-Woman.

All that being said...I think, in the context of the episode, she was used well (in regards to the whole parent/superhero thing and introducing a successor for Miles) and it was nice seeing that Spider-Gwen costume finally animated, if disappointingly not looking right out of a Robbi Rodriguez comic and thus missing that important stylistic touch. Dove Cameron also did a solid job with her vocal performance even if, especially with all the changes to the character, she didn't exactly sound like Spider-Gwen in the comics. Ultimately I feel like Spider-Gwen is another in a long-line of characters in Ultimate who, while generally working well in the context of the show and the purpose the creators intend for them, don't really resemble their comic incarnations that much outside of their costume :shrug:.

It was nice seeing George Stacy in a Spider-Man cartoon again, even if here he's got an inexplicable Brooklyn accent and an irrational hatred of masked vigilante's, which has virtually nothing in common with comic Captain Stacy or even the one from Spider-Gwen's world. At least the latter had a more sensible reason for wanting to arrest Spider-Woman, because she was believed to have killed the Peter Parker of her world. I guess they just wanted him to be like Denis Leary's Captain Stacy from the Amazing Spider-Man movies, minus the Leary charm and the whole dying/Ghost Dad routine :evil:.

Aunt May getting involved in the life of a Spider succeeding Peter after his death, and having an emotional reaction to seeing our Peter, rang true, but seeing her as a support staff for a Spider and with her own cave decked out like the Parker household feels like the kind of wacky plot twist that only USM could come up with. Also, I feel bad for Gwen that she needs to have a support staff that tells her what to do, which none of the other Spiders need, while also needing to get by with tech rather then any natural spider-powers :eek:.

Jeez, it must be so easy (if seemingly unnecessary) to maintain a secret identity in these universes if Peter and Miles can just chill out at their homes in-costume without anybody noticing :rolleyes2:.

I get what they were trying to convey with Miles talking about the Web Warriors as another family, where he's the little brother, but given how ultimately we never really got to see the whole team together that much or really focused on that bond forming, it feels as hollow as that scene of them praising Aunt May and taking that picture together. We haven't even seen the Web Warriors together as a team since the episode Scarlet went MIA :crying:.

I think I like the idea of Wolf-Spider, as an evil alternate version of Spider-Man and Peter Parker, better then his actual execution in this arc. I mean, he was in it for so little, and barely managed to succeed in most of his appearances, that they didn't really get to play with the idea of an evil Spider-Man much or really develop him or contrast him against Peter. And why was he called Wolf-Spider? He had more in common with the Superior Spider-Man then he did a wolf, aside from a wolf emblem on his belt, and there wasn't anything particularly wolf-esque about him. Was he meant to be a "wolf in spider clothing?" Did they just pick a name out of a hat for an evil Spider-Man :confused:?

At least he had a pretty cool design once he got the cloak off, and the writers did their level best to make him seem like more of a threat then he'd been for most of the actual arc. And Christopher Daniel Barnes did a great job combining an equal amount of creepiness and hamminess for a memorable villain performance, even if (as with all of Barnes' role on the show) it feels like they could've utilized him more :sad:.

Why was Spider-Gwen effected by Wolf-Spider's attack? She's not even a natural spider like all the others are. Does just putting on a spider-costume and using webbing, in any way, just make you a Spider in the universal cosmology that is the Web of Reality? Or did they just not put that much thought into it :rolleyes:?

That Spider-Punk cameo is probably the closest we'll ever get to Hobie Brown appearing in this cartoon :sweat:.

So all Spidey needed to do to beat Wolf-Spider was...give everybody a little pep-talk? That's it? I mean, I guess I get where they were going with it, cheesy as it is, with Wolf-Spider getting beaten by the combined heroism of every Spider he absorbed, but it ultimately felt pretty anti-climactic and too quick to me :(.

It wouldn't be the end of a Spider-Verse arc without our Peter getting some character shilling by the other spiders. Though at least they didn't work in him being the "Ultimate Spider-Man" like last time ;).

So Miles and Rio are just going to hop on over and live in the 616 dimension? They didn't have any friends or a life on their world to keep them there, just each other? Rio doesn't have a problem going to a completely new dimension and looking for a new job and place to live, in New York of all places? Miles isn't worried about school? Or is SHIELD going to foot the bill for all this, like they always do? I get they want to keep Miles in the main Earth, because obviously they want him to keep him as a consistent presence on the show and maybe match the comics as well, but it seems like a bit much to just completely move him and his mom to a whole other universe o_O.

Not to mention, it's not like he gets to be the Spider-Man of Peter's Earth either, because they've saddled him with the stupid "Kid-Arachnid" codename on the main Earth. At least if he stuck around, he could be the Spider-Man to Gwen's Spider-Woman. Heck, if the crime rate has really gone up since Miles' absence, doesn't he have a responsibility to help Gwen take care of that :ack:?

Man, Nick Fury is such a jerk :mad:.

Overall, I'd say the second Spider-Verse arc was generally pretty entertaining and fun, though I don't think it left as much of an impression as the original did. Maybe because of the novelty of the first Spider-Verse, or that it featured more worlds, or that all the Spiders came together to fight the villains, or that it also finally concluded the long-running Gobiln storyline...with this Spider-Verse, it felt like we kinda just breezed through it with very little fanfare, though maybe that's just me. Still, I enjoyed it and am eager to see what the rest of the season entails :D.
 

ChessKing

Active Member
I thought this episode was a pretty good ending for this arc of episodes, I especially liked the emotional scene with Peter meeting Aunt May in the Spider Nest, Overall it was a great episode arc. I noticed that the Spiders that appeared in the season 3 Spider-verse arc made a blink and you'll miss them cameo like: 2099, Petra Parker Spider-Girl, Spyder-Knight and Spider-Ham and Webslinger, Blood-Spider, Webbeard and Noir returned for cameos and also the first appearance of Spider-Punk and the mech suit Spider from the Miles from Home episode there was also a chibi Spidey and a Six Armed Spidey. I also noticed some spiders in the background that were wearing suits that the main universe Spidey wore in previous episodes/seasons:
There was a Spidey wearing the S.H.I.E.L.D Tech Armour from season 1 episode 15 "For Your Eye Only".
There was also a Spidey wearing the Iron Spidey Hulk buster Armour from Season 3 episode 15 "Rampaging Rhino".
There was also a Spidey wearing the K'un-L'un Armour from Season 2 episode 13 "Journey of the Iron Fist".

Did anyone notice any other versions of spidey??
 

Gold Guy

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Fun episode, but very anti-climatic for being the big arc finale. Wolf Spider was a huge disappointment who never felt like a grand threat, and the way he lost was...not what I would have done.

Gwen was pretty likable though, but her dad discovering her identity was also rushed; heck, he was told off-screen.
 

Frontier

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Gwen was pretty likable though, but her dad discovering her identity was also rushed; heck, he was told off-screen.
I wish all my family conflict could be resolved easily off-screen and without me having to actually do anything :p.
 

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