"Toonami" News & Discussion Thread

Conttactt

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It is kind of a shame that those series were written off. They weren't anything to write home about, especially Fena, and Shenmue was probably the best one out of the bunch despite being mostly decent, but they still put in a lot of time and money to make those shows. At least they shouldn't be difficult to find like with a lot of other animated series affected by the HBO Max situation, but it is still rough for the people who worked hard on these shows and for Toonami to effectively lose three original series. I would have been up for a Shenmue season two, so it's kind of sad that it probably won't happen.
The problem is they poured the money in, and then they flopped. On top of that, none of them had much, if any rerun value. Black Lotus in particular threw people into a frenzy when it was announced for yet another rerun. What’s left to do with them? The fact that reruns of Primal outperformed all 3 originals almost all 21 weeks that it was in the lead slot certainly doesn’t make a good case for any of the shows sticking around. Thankfully for the very few people who liked these shows, they remain available on Crunchyroll, so they aren’t total banishment as other AS shows are.

Real shame about Shenmue being written off. Would have loved to see a second season for it.
What would it have done? The creator of Shenmue has stuck by his guns for over 20 years, even in wake of getting a miracle 3rd game and completely squandering it. Could Demarco have actually made the guy change his tune and adapt the rest of his story in anime form? Or would it just have been a horrendously drug out retelling of the 3rd game?
 

Light Lucario

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The problem is they poured the money in, and then they flopped. On top of that, none of them had much, if any rerun value. Black Lotus in particular threw people into a frenzy when it was announced for yet another rerun. What’s left to do with them? The fact that reruns of Primal outperformed all 3 originals almost all 21 weeks that it was in the lead slot certainly doesn’t make a good case for any of the shows sticking around. Thankfully for the very few people who liked these shows, they remain available on Crunchyroll, so they aren’t total banishment as other AS shows are.
Even if they weren't successful, I don't think that's a good justification for writing them off. Granted, none of these were beloved shows like most of the other shows affected by the Discovery merger or other shows Cartoon Network has written off in the past, but I don't think writing these shows off is going to do much to help WB financially and it's still pretty lousy for the people who worked on these shows.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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The answer is simple, DeMarco lied. These are his projects, there is no way he was going to admit they were failures.
When he said they were successes, he was more referring to that they were successful under the old management but not enough for a continuation under the new management, which doesn't always equal to failure as all of them aired before the WBD merger, with one (Shenmue) airing between the two managements, like how Alita: Battle Angel was moderately successful for 20th Century Fox prior to the Disney acquisition but not enough for a sequel under the studio's (now 20th Century Studios) current management since there hasn't been any news about Disney greenlighting a sequel to the film.

Hence, I don't really think he was lying and that this was definitely Zaslav's doing.
Toonami is never going to see an exclusive dub again for the rest of its existence. The block is struggling to get any shows at all. The block is a dying relic and anime fans have been pretty loud about their disdain for any series that ends up on Toonami exclusively.
Honestly, I believe anime fans have been more vocal about their disdain of Sony buying Crunchyroll than this one, given the recent news relating to Crunchyroll's subscription fees as I still think their acquisition of the anime streaming service when they already have one wasn't a good idea at all.
 

Conttactt

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Even if they weren't successful, I don't think that's a good justification for writing them off. Granted, none of these were beloved shows like most of the other shows affected by the Discovery merger or other shows Cartoon Network has written off in the past, but I don't think writing these shows off is going to do much to help WB financially and it's still pretty lousy for the people who worked on these shows.
Businesses have to make money. It sucks, but they aren’t running a charity service here. WB finances are dire, and Zaslav is doing whatever he can to balance the books. Writing off one project might not make a dent, but writing off ten will. This was a concern I had many years ago when Demarco said the block was going to be doing more originals. Anime projects are expensive, which means the success metric is higher. And expecting the block to pump out a winner every single time was an unrealistic expectation.

When he said they were successes, he was more referring to that they were successful under the old management but not enough for a continuation under the new management, which doesn't always equal to failure as all of them aired before the WBD merger, with one (Shenmue) airing between the two managements, like how Alita: Battle Angel was moderately successful for 20th Century Fox prior to the Disney acquisition but not enough for a sequel under the studio's (now 20th Century Studios) current management since there hasn't been any news about Disney greenlighting a sequel to the film.

Hence, I don't really think he was lying and that this was definitely Zaslav's doing.

Honestly, I believe anime fans have been more vocal about their disdain of Sony buying Crunchyroll than this one, given the recent news relating to Crunchyroll's subscription fees as I still think their acquisition of the anime streaming service when they already have one wasn't a good idea at all.
If anything, that just makes the old management look incompetent. We know back in Lazzo’s days that he would greenlight projects that underperformed if he personally liked them. That’s a fine attitude to have it you aren’t obsessed with ratings at the same time. Toonami has been struggling hard with content for years now, instead of attempting to pump more money into original projects that we know the audience didn’t really like, maybe we should have been going back to our roots with acquired content.

As for your second point, anime fans can be upset about more than one thing. The issues with CR are recent. Disdain with Toonami locking down shows is something as old as 2018. You can even find occasional frustration as far back as 2015 with the dub for AoT.
 

Light Lucario

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Businesses have to make money. It sucks, but they aren’t running a charity service here. WB finances are dire, and Zaslav is doing whatever he can to balance the books. Writing off one project might not make a dent, but writing off ten will. This was a concern I had many years ago when Demarco said the block was going to be doing more originals. Anime projects are expensive, which means the success metric is higher. And expecting the block to pump out a winner every single time was an unrealistic expectation.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't want to make money, but writing off shows even if they aren't successful just seems like a poor way to manage money out of these properties. Given all of the issues with WB at the moment, Zaslav writing off a bunch of series hasn't really helped. All it's done has caused huge backlash and burned a lot of bridges with their creative talents. If anything, it's only caused more problems and not provide much, if any, in their efforts to balance the books.

With these shows in particular, I still don't know if they'd all be considered financial failures either. The fact that they were getting ready to do Shenmue season two before this gives the impression that it did well enough. I don't really see a reason as to why DeMarco would lie about their success, so I don't think that's it either. I think that the series were considered more successful initially, but less so with new management running WB. The fact that Crunchyroll is owned by Sony could have also been an issue.
 

Conttactt

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I'm not saying that they shouldn't want to make money, but writing off shows even if they aren't successful just seems like a poor way to manage money out of these properties. Given all of the issues with WB at the moment, Zaslav writing off a bunch of series hasn't really helped. All it's done has caused huge backlash and burned a lot of bridges with their creative talents. If anything, it's only caused more problems and not provide much, if any, in their efforts to balance the books.

With these shows in particular, I still don't know if they'd all be considered financial failures either. The fact that they were getting ready to do Shenmue season two before this gives the impression that it did well enough. I don't really see a reason as to why DeMarco would lie about their success, so I don't think that's it either. I think that the series were considered more successful initially, but less so with new management running WB. The fact that Crunchyroll is owned by Sony could have also been an issue.
I guess at the end of the day their relationship with creators only matters if they have long term plans for AS. With the cancellation of almost all their active shows earlier this year, it’s hard to believe there is much intent to keep AS around for much longer. They probably also assume there will always be a pool of hungry creators willing to work with them even with the risk that their show is quickly written off. If they keep farming talent off Newgrounds they won’t have any shortages.

The thing about backlash and outrage these days is it’s quick to be forgotten. Once something else happens it will be like none of these write offs ever did. I have mentioned this in the past, stuff like JJ Villard and Beef House saw it’s most online interaction when it was announced it was written off. If people want shows to survive, care about them when they are airing. The anime originals outside of Toonami communities barely even had seasonal discussion. Shenmue got slightly more because of game fans, but it still was not much.

As for success, there is a HUGE divide between “we are gearing up for S2 cause these did so good!” and “these did terrible we need to write them off just to break even”. Someone isn’t telling the truth, and Demarco has a track record with dishonesty, especially when his ego is on the line. Suzuki’s vision for Shenmue is well known in its community, that his story can ONLY be told via games. It’s hard to believe Demarco got him to budge on that, just as it’s hard to believe they would make an entire season for the fairly plot light S3.

As I mentioned, all 3 originals did worse than Primal reruns as the lead show. That doesn’t really feel like success to me, any way you spin it
 

JShaggy

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New talkback images for Housing Complex C and One Piece:

Toonami2022-Housing-Complex-C.png

Toonami2022-One-Piece-Punk-Hazard.png


NOTE: The OP one is a bit of a spoiler for future events in the Punk Hazard arc.

As always, please bookmark this post for future reference.
 

PicardMan

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Looks like Bleach will be in the same boat as Sailor Moon Crystal was.


In Canada, Bleach will stream on Star, which is their equivalent to Hulu. Bleach also got removed from TubiTV and Pluto in addition to Crunchyroll. It looks like we have a Sailor Moon crystal situation where Hulu gets exclusivity in the US. That's a shame because Bleach was one of the most iconic anime to air on Adult Swim. At least we probably have hope for Gundam: The Witch from Mercury?
 

Yojimbo

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Looks like Bleach will be in the same boat as Sailor Moon Crystal was.


In Canada, Bleach will stream on Star, which is their equivalent to Hulu. Bleach also got removed from TubiTV and Pluto in addition to Crunchyroll. It looks like we have a Sailor Moon crystal situation where Hulu gets exclusivity in the US. That's a shame because Bleach was one of the most iconic anime to air on Adult Swim. At least we probably have hope for Gundam: The Witch from Mercury?
But didn't Sailor Moon Crystal later end up on Crunchyroll (and released on U.S. Blu-ray) so it didn't stay 100% exclusive forever. Too bad Bleach can't just be sub/dub debuts on Hulu then 1 or 2 months later premieres on Toonami but the streamers have the purchasing power. I may just wait until the cour is over then get Hulu for a month and binge the whole thing since don't use Hulu daily.
 

PicardMan

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But didn't Sailor Moon Crystal later end up on Crunchyroll (and released on U.S. Blu-ray) so it didn't stay 100% exclusive forever. Too bad Bleach can't just be sub/dub debuts on Hulu then 1 or 2 months later premieres on Toonami but the streamers have the purchasing power. I may just wait until the cour is over then get Hulu for a month and binge the whole thing since don't use Hulu daily.

It took Sailor Moon Crystal half a decade to get on other platforms. It will probably be a while for Bleach too. I guess Sailor Moon or Sailor Moon Crystal might be dark horse possibilities for Lupin's replacement even if oddsmakers have Made in Abyss season 2 as the favorite.
 

Gold Guy

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So I may be a bit out of the loop - has anyone volunteered to take on the Housing Complex C talkbacks?
 

Space Cadet

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So I may be a bit out of the loop - has anyone volunteered to take on the Housing Complex C talkbacks?

Nope, you can take it if you want.

What would it have done? The creator of Shenmue has stuck by his guns for over 20 years, even in wake of getting a miracle 3rd game and completely squandering it. Could Demarco have actually made the guy change his tune and adapt the rest of his story in anime form? Or would it just have been a horrendously drug out retelling of the 3rd game?

Maybe he could have convinced him, maybe not. They could have done their own story if the creator didn't budge, there's different stuff they can do. Either way, my original point of me wanting another season still stands.
 

veemonjosh

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With less than a week to go until its premiere, Viz finally announced who will be simulcasting the new Bleach series: Hulu (or Disney+ outside the US):


Keep in mind, Hulu having streaming rights to the sub doesn't mean the dub won't be on Toonami. For example, One-Punch Man's simulcast was also a Hulu exclusive.
 

Conttactt

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With less than a week to go until its premiere, Viz finally announced who will be simulcasting the new Bleach series: Hulu (or Disney+ outside the US):


Keep in mind, Hulu having streaming rights to the sub doesn't mean the dub won't be on Toonami. For example, One-Punch Man's simulcast was also a Hulu exclusive.
Well, that’s about as good of a position that we can hope for I guess. We already kinda knew, but it’s a relief it’s not on Crunchyroll.

If we do get it, I doubt it would be anytime soon though. Disney/Hulu would want some period of time of being the only place to watch it.
 

PicardMan

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Keep in mind, Hulu having streaming rights to the sub doesn't mean the dub won't be on Toonami. For example, One-Punch Man's simulcast was also a Hulu exclusive.

Viz is very unpredictable in that they signed a contract that denied Toonami Sailor Moon Crystal yet otherwise gave Toonami a lot of exclusive dubs, including the aforementioned One Punch Man (by the way, I think One Punch Man season 2 in 2019 was the last time Viz ever gave Toonami exclusivity on the dub). Then Yashahime came along and Crunchyroll, Hulu, and Funimation all got to premiere the dub, but Toonami at least got to air it. The fact that the entirety of Bleach, even the older episodes, got yanked from streaming platforms, doesn't seem to provide too much hope that Hulu's exclusivity is just the subtitled version of the Blood War arc. Of course, nothing is official until Viz announces the home for the Bleach dub.
 

Conttactt

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Viz is very unpredictable in that they signed a contract that denied Toonami Sailor Moon Crystal yet otherwise gave Toonami a lot of exclusive dubs, including the aforementioned One Punch Man (by the way, I think One Punch Man season 2 in 2019 was the last time Viz ever gave Toonami exclusivity on the dub). Then Yashahime came along and Crunchyroll, Hulu, and Funimation all got to premiere the dub, but Toonami at least got to air it. The fact that the entirety of Bleach, even the older episodes, got yanked from streaming platforms, doesn't seem to provide too much hope that Hulu's exclusivity is just the subtitled version of the Blood War arc. Of course, nothing is official until Viz announces the home for the Bleach dub.
I think Sailor Moon was simply a case of money talks. Hulu at the time paid straight out the ass to be the exclusive home for anything Sailor Moon for a number of years.

Unfortunately for us, Bleach is another big name, big hype title. And now we are talking about the Disney checkbook. Could they have shelled out for the deluxe exclusivity package? Certainly not impossible. Viz may find themselves in a position where they do want to support the block, but have to put their own financial future first which leaves us with nothing.

If by some miracle Toonami will be the home for the dub, Viz and Demarco need to making that announcement ASAP, even if the dub isn’t premiering for a month or two. They need to build up that hype
 

PicardMan

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Lupin replacement announced. It's double Naruto. Obligatory Halloween marathon the next week for Housing Complex C. I guess we'll see if a new show comes in November or if Yashahime gets promoted to block leader and a slot gets cut.

 

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