Tiny Toons: "Music Video" Episodes

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Mandouga

Well-Known Member
I refer specifically to the episodes "TT Music Television", and "Toon TV".

As you all know, these episodes each contain several copyrighted songs in their entirety. While these episodes were groundbreaking, they complicate a potential DVD release of the entire series. As you also know, many TV series animated and live-action, have had to be released with music alterations (which is why Kids Incorporated may never get a release, but I digress). If they were to release TTA on DVD, they would have to pay licensing fees for each song (that isn't "Top Secret Apprentice" or "Tune Out Toon In") in order for the episodes to be included. Naturally the only recourse would be to release the show but omit the two episodes in question, and I know none of you would want that.

I guess what I want to ask is, would you be willing to by a DVD of TTA even if these two episodes were omitted?

Also, if I'm missing any information, feel free to contribute. Just don't bite my head off assuming that I'm "supposed" to know these things. Also, if this was already brought up, I apologize.
 

Peter Paltridge

Ay Carumba
Staff member
Moderator
I guess what I want to ask is, would you be willing to by a DVD of TTA even if these two episodes were omitted?
Yes.

Ya gotta take what you can get (and besides, the Silver Age DVD releases so far have been fantastic). If they can't include Tiny Toon Music Television at all (and there's a TMBG song on a Homestar Runner DVD, so I don't think that band is very greedy) then I still want to support the release of Tiny Toon sets.
 

J. B. Warner

Increasing my wordiness
I thought all the music videos used public domain songs, with the exception of the They Might Be Giants videos (and as Mars mentioned, TMBG aren't known to be very stingy about the use of their music). But still, even if the episodes have to be omitted, I'd still buy the DVD - it'd be worth it for all the other episodes that'd be on there.
 

Classic Speedy

Yup.
Staff member
Moderator
Reporter
J.B. Warner said:
I thought all the music videos used public domain songs, with the exception of the They Might Be Giants videos (and as Mars mentioned, TMBG aren't known to be very stingy about the use of their music).
I believe some are and some aren't. Here's what I think would be no problem:
-Video Game Blues: This one's obvious, since it's a classical piece (The Nutcracker, specifically).
-The Name Game: While it's based off a real song, Elmyra sings it and adds her own lyrics, so it's probably not an issue since it falls into the realm of parody instead of using an actual recording.
-Top Secret Apprentice: Since it's an original orchestration, no problem there.
-Istanbul (Not Constantinople) & Particle Man: I doubt TMBG would be stingy about allowing these videos on DVDs.
-Skinhead O'Connell's "Nothing Comes Close to Yule": Like The Name Game, it falls into parody area and is sung by Shirley.

Here's what might pose more of a problem:
-Do You Love Me?
-It's In His Kiss
-Money (That's What I Want)
-Respect
-Yakety Yak
 

Mandouga

Well-Known Member
You have to keep in mind that not only do the songs have to be cleared by the original artists (or their families if they are deceased), but also by the companies/RIAA/whoever. So even if TMBG might be good about it, the songs also have to be cleared by the label they released them on.

Anyhow, I forgot about the other parodies, but that still doesn't change the fact that they have copyrighted songs.

So you would support such a DVD release? Now try this on for size. Would you support a DVD release even if faced with the possibility (though probably a small one) that you might NEVER see the episodes again through legal means (i.e., outside of "torrents", bootlegs, and other illegal means)? Even though you might never, ever get the "complete" series (it would be pretty hypocritical to call it "complete" w/o the missing episodes)? I guess what I mean to ask is, how badly do you want this series released on DVD (i.e., bad enough that you would be willing to get a second rate release of the series w/o the missing episodes)?

I don't know about anyone else, but while I would support a DVD release of TTA, I won't give in to corporate mediocrity (sp?), either. There have been too many TV DVD releases as it is that have had to be "compromised" in some way (music alterations, syndication prints instead of original prints, PAL, or otherwise "international" masters instead of the original NTSC masters, and so on). I just hope and pray that this show doesn't become another "victim", so to speak.
 

Classic Speedy

Yup.
Staff member
Moderator
Reporter
So you would support such a DVD release? Now try this on for size. Would you support a DVD release even if faced with the possibility (though probably a small one) that you might NEVER see the episodes again through legal means (i.e., outside of "torrents", bootlegs, and other illegal means)? Even though you might never, ever get the "complete" series (it would be pretty hypocritical to call it "complete" w/o the missing episodes)? I guess what I mean to ask is, how badly do you want this series released on DVD (i.e., bad enough that you would be willing to get a second rate release of the series w/o the missing episodes)?

I don't know about anyone else, but while I would support a DVD release of TTA, I won't give in to corporate mediocrity (sp?), either. There have been too many TV DVD releases as it is that have had to be "compromised" in some way (music alterations, syndication prints instead of original prints, PAL, or otherwise "international" masters instead of the original NTSC masters, and so on). I just hope and pray that this show doesn't become another "victim", so to speak.
First of all, I sincerely hope that if WB brings TTA to DVD, they try their darndest to get the rights to the few songs. I mean, it's not like TTA is a show full of licensed songs or anything, so unless the few songs cost an arm and a leg to include, they might as well pony up the price to get them so that the entire series is unedited.

That said, if I were to find out down the line* that the few songs couldn't be included because the costs were astronomical or the band(s)/companies refused to grant access for whatever reason, I'd buy it regardless. I know, buying an edited set can potentially send the message that edited sets are OK and that companies shouldn't work to clear things and provide the best product possible, -but- actually buying the sets can also potentially give WB incentive to release future Silver Age sets.

It's an unfortunate situation. It's too bad companies 15-20 years ago didn't realize that their products may have a future life on video where they'd have to clear things, because now some shows are paying for it (Super Mario Bros. Super Show being a huge example). I guess what I'm saying is, though, I'd rather have 99% of TTA than none at all.

*I say "down the line" because I have a feeling TTA would be released like A!: 24-25 episodes per volume, with the episodes in production order. Which means we wouldn't see Tiny Toons Music TV until roughly the third set anyway, since it's #163.
 

Silverstar

Rock the Dragon
I'd buy a Tiny Toon Adventures DVD set with or without those episodes. "TT: Music Television" and "Toon TV" were each OK, but neither of them were favorites of mine. I could live without the music video eps.
 

Leviathan

"It's against nature!"
Staff member
Moderator
Because of the format of these episodes (standalone music videos), I think if Warner couldn't license the songs for whatever reason, they'd probably just cut the affected music video out of that episode rather than omit whole ones.

However,they DID clear "Little Old Lady from Pasadina:" for the first Animaniacs box, i'm a little more optimistic about the whole thing. I mean, the songs used aren't exactly Led Zepplin/Beatles/Ray Charles/Outkast songs.
 

Mandouga

Well-Known Member
Because of the format of these episodes (standalone music videos), I think if Warner couldn't license the songs for whatever reason, they'd probably just cut the affected music video out of that episode rather than omit whole ones.
Do you realize what you're saying? I mean, can you imagine the outcry from fans if they did that? They'd be taking away about half of the episodes themselves, and if they combined both episodes into one episode, the fans would probably see that as sacriledge (sp?).

The way I see it, one way or another, it's going to have to be all or nothing. As far as TTA goes, my intuition tells me that Warner Bros. wouldn't shortchange the viewers like that. Of course, anything can happen, but if Warner Bros. was to do what you suggest, the outcry would be deafening.

Also, "Little Old Lady..." on Animaniacs was just one song. We're dealing with several copyrighted songs across two episodes of TTA.
 

William C. Maune

TZ News Editor in Chief
Do you realize what you're saying? I mean, can you imagine the outcry from fans if they did that? They'd be taking away about half of the episodes themselves, and if they combined both episodes into one episode, the fans would probably see that as sacriledge (sp?).

The way I see it, one way or another, it's going to have to be all or nothing. As far as TTA goes, my intuition tells me that Warner Bros. wouldn't shortchange the viewers like that. Of course, anything can happen, but if Warner Bros. was to do what you suggest, the outcry would be deafening.

Also, "Little Old Lady..." on Animaniacs was just one song. We're dealing with several copyrighted songs across two episodes of TTA.
I'm not sure what the fans gain by getting rid of all the songs in an episode just because they couldn't get some of the songs. I'd much rather have something than nothing.
 

Peter Paltridge

Ay Carumba
Staff member
Moderator
I don't think they'll have too much trouble getting the rights... I mean, WB MUST have gotten them before, because they released both episodes onto VHS a while back, remember? =)

http://www.amazon.com/Tiny-Toons-Television-Charles-Adler/dp/6302697719/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-1275329-9853756?ie=UTF8&s=video&qid=1183924487&sr=8-3
VHS is different. The rights then applied only to home video formats that existed at the time. Now they have to be repurchased for DVD. The Wonder Years can still be shown on TV in syndicated form, yet it can't go to DVD because of all the songs that would have to be re-cleared.
 
However,they DID clear "Little Old Lady from Pasadina:" for the first Animaniacs box,
Also "Goin' Up the Country" in Woodstock Slappy.

But the difference there is that Animaniacs used cover versions of the songs, so the studio only has to clear the rights with the song publisher. Clearing the original recording is much harder because you have to get rights from the people who own the song and the company that owns the recording.

Also, while TTA didn't use much licensed music, they used a little more than Animaniacs. There are some early episodes that use "Hooray For Hollywood," which Warner Brothers no longer owns (that's why Richard Stone came up with his own Hollywood theme for Animaniacs). So it's a tougher proposition.

One trivia note: the Animaniacs cartoon "Toy Shop Terror" was originally going to use the actual recording of "Powerhouse" by Raymond Scott but at the last minute, presumably to save on licensing costs, Richard Stone was asked to record a cover version of the piece. That's why the timing is a bit off in that cartoon, because the animation was timed to the older recording.
 

Peter Paltridge

Ay Carumba
Staff member
Moderator
Also "Goin' Up the Country" in Woodstock Slappy.

But the difference there is that Animaniacs used cover versions of the songs, so the studio only has to clear the rights with the song publisher.
Huh? "Goin' Up The Country" was an obvious imitation, but the "Pasadena" one sounded pretty authentic to me. That WAS the Beach Boys, I think...
 

Mandouga

Well-Known Member
Actually, it was Jan and Dean (I know, they both sound so much alike...).

Anyway, yes. With TTA, it's more difficult.
 

PeppeRaskell1

Peanutized!!!
I still have the original VHS of the TTA "Music Television" and "Toon TV" episodes. I hope to see them one day on DVD too.

Don't get discouraged, everyone. It took quite a long time for the Heavy Metal cartoon to be released because of music rights issues, but it eventually got released, and it was worth the wait.

PeppeRaskell1
"Some 'toons are worth the wait..."
 
Thanks for the correction. I always thought "Little Old Lady" was a Beach Boys song and that the version used on Animaniacs was of someone imitating the Beach Boys. Now I know it was someone imitating the Beach Boys, but that's the original version. :)
 

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