"The Worlds of DC" Movie News & Discussion Part 4 (Spoilers)

Mostezli

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Unless, The Suicide Squad does really well, we might not see too much of Harley in the future.
Didn't the first Suicide Squad overperform and propel Harley to all these projects over any other character? If this second one does really well, they may just keep her around on this franchise rather than hand her more spinoffs - as enticing as it is to make her DC's Deadpool. You can certainly have the Sirens in another Suicide Squad movie.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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Unless she was forced to do otherwise, she could've did that instead of BoP.

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She wasn't forced to do otherwise but she wanted to do otherwise because of what it would of meant having Poison Ivy at the time. See after Suicide Squad did so well Robbie was offered a bunch of various other roles in addition to being in the next SS of where else she could take Harley Quinn. Robbie wanted to have the character team up with well known female DC characters which yeah would of been Gotham City Sirens with Poison ivy... except at the time David Ayer was attached to that project so if she moved forward with that he'd have to be brought back aboard. And yeah Robbie didn't want to work with him again thus deciding to go with BoP instead. I think Ayer is no longer really involved at all with WB and doesn't have those attachments to projects he did before thus why Poison Ivy could likely be used NOW in a project with Harley that could be something like Gotham City Sirens but done with Ayer but yeah with Birds of Prey fizzling it does put a dent on Robbie being able to headline her own DC movie. And evenb if The Suicide Squad does well that's still her as a supporting player so that doesn't really change the conversation at all.
 

Otaku-sempai

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With BoP underperforming, I doubt it anytime soon. Unless, The Suicide Squad does really well, we might not see too much of Harley in the future.

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Birds of Prey was full of compromises that hurt the film and kept it from coming close to its full potential. It didn't make the same mistakes as the BoP television series but made a whole new batch of them instead. For one thing, the film couldn't decide whether it was about a team of urban crime-fighters or a caper film along the lines of Oceans 8. And many of the main characters were underdeveloped or were made almost unrecognizable to where it seemed pointless to use them (Cassandra Cain comes to mind).
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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Birds of Prey was full of compromises that hurt the film and kept it from coming close to its full potential.

I actually disagree with that. Yes Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey is a mess that flip flops tones and loses focus often and wastes characters that should be more significant (honestly they're portrayal of Cassandra Cain may be one of the worst comic to movie portrayals of a DC character since the 2004 Catwoman movie. Dead serious about that) but that's not because it's a compromised movie. I'd argue Suicide Squad is much more a compromised movie as there's a mix of David Ayer's more dramatic grittier version and the light fun poppy tone that the trailer advertising team brought to the final cut of the movie. No this movie is exactly what the team wanted to be; this sort of out there ridiculous romp with Harley Quinn and this group of famous DC ladies teaming up but then not against various forces out to get them. Here's the issue; this is one of those very niche "you can tell the people making this had way more fun with this concept then any viewer who was observing them make it" kind of film. Like this is the out there passion project that uses ideas and scenarios more because they want to see them but not something that gels into like a great movie for anyone outside of that specific niche. As a result it is a very messy movie but that was the intention it was just that the mess seemed appeasing to the people who made it which turns out not to be nearly as many as they or DC/WB thought there would be.
 

Otaku-sempai

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I actually disagree with that. Yes Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey is a mess that flip flops tones and loses focus often and wastes characters that should be more significant (honestly they're portrayal of Cassandra Cain may be one of the worst comic to movie portrayals of a DC character since the 2004 Catwoman movie. Dead serious about that) but that's not because it's a compromised movie. I'd argue Suicide Squad is much more a compromised movie as there's a mix of David Ayer's more dramatic grittier version and the light fun poppy tone that the trailer advertising team brought to the final cut of the movie. No this movie is exactly what the team wanted to be; this sort of out there ridiculous romp with Harley Quinn and this group of famous DC ladies teaming up but then not against various forces out to get them. Here's the issue; this is one of those very niche "you can tell the people making this had way more fun with this concept then any viewer who was observing them make it" kind of film. Like this is the out there passion project that uses ideas and scenarios more because they want to see them but not something that gels into like a great movie for anyone outside of that specific niche. As a result it is a very messy movie but that was the intention it was just that the mess seemed appeasing to the people who made it which turns out not to be nearly as many as they or DC/WB thought there would be.
I kinda agree with you, Mike, but I don't think that we are using 'compromise' in quite the same way. I'm talking about how the film differs from its source material: Eliminating Barbara Gordon (effectively replacing her with Harley; making the Birds into more ethically challenged characters; the inclusion of Renee Montoya as an actual member of the team (as opposed to an ally); and (of course) the extreme changes to Cassandra Cain that wasted any potential that she could have brought to the table. This really should have been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Harley teaming up with Poison Ivy and (probably) Catwoman, maybe bringing along such characters as Roxy Rocket and Holly Robinson. Harley is, at best, an antihero; and that may be giving her too much credit.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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I kinda agree with you, Mike, but I don't think that we are using 'compromise' in quite the same way. I'm talking about how the film differs from its source material: Eliminating Barbara Gordon (effectively replacing her with Harley; making the Birds into more ethically challenged characters; the inclusion of Renee Montoya as an actual member of the team (as opposed to an ally); and (of course) the extreme changes to Cassandra Cain that wasted any potential that she could have brought to the table. This really should have been a Gotham City Sirens movie with Harley teaming up with Poison Ivy and (probably) Catwoman, maybe bringing along such characters as Roxy Rocket and Holly Robinson. Harley is, at best, an antihero; and that may be giving her too much credit.

Ah I was thinking of compromise as in "saying it was a battle between the studio execs and the team that made the film weaker" when you were going "weakening what already existed with the Birds of Prey that they could of done instead". And on that level yeah I agree with you. The thing is Robbie wanted to make a "bad ass movie starring punk female DC Characters" and considering how Gotham City Sirens were tied to David Ayer they decided to go with Birds of Prey even though yeah the combination didn't work. Which could be argued they were fine with as it went more with Robbie and the team's version of what they wanted with the movie but yeah not with what the common audience felt. Or what a lot of fans wanted as well. Honestly I feel Renee Montoya probably suffered the least as a character in this, with Cassandra Cain suffering the most and that Huntress and Black Canary in a sense also got screwed as character albeit in different ways. To me this movie screams that Robbie should not have held really as much sway over her character and the direction as she did and hope that's something that is thought about going forward.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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Didn't the first Suicide Squad overperform and propel Harley to all these projects over any other character?
Correct.
If this second one does really well, they may just keep her around on this franchise rather than hand her more spinoffs - as enticing as it is to make her DC's Deadpool. You can certainly have the Sirens in another Suicide Squad movie.
Couldn't agree with you more.
 

Mostezli

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I don't think I can rationalize a Batman in this iteration. None of the previous DC filmmakers thus far ever attempted to make it this grounded.
 

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I don't think I can rationalize a Batman in this iteration. None of the previous DC filmmakers thus far ever attempted to make it this grounded.
Then I don't think they should have bothered to include Bruce Wayne or the Waynes' death at all.
 

Mostezli

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Then I don't think they should have bothered to include Bruce Wayne or the Waynes' death at all.
It's the impracticality and fantasy of Batman that I don't see working here. More than likely Bruce becomes a cop and has someone else maintain that Wayne lifestyle. Him living the double life of a cosplay-themed street vigilante with little-no sleep + all these impossible to achieve at once resources, knowledge & training over his childhood trauma doesn't fit with what's been established through Joker.
 

Frontier

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It's the impracticality and fantasy of Batman that I don't see working here. More than likely Bruce becomes a cop and has someone else maintain that Wayne lifestyle. Him living the double life of a cosplay-themed street vigilante with little-no sleep + all these impossible to achieve at once resources, knowledge & training over his childhood trauma doesn't fit with what's been established through Joker.
I think a Golden Age Batman would fit well enough depending on how they handle it.
 

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