The Lack Of A Wonder Woman Series: Why Is That?

[Mostezli]

Maybe a DVD movie could help before getting a tv show. Given how we've already two movies on the PG-13 end (Wonder Woman 2009 and Wonder Woman Bloodlines in 2019), I'd say something more G rated will help contextualize the character and make her as much an icon for kids as she is for adults (tone wise, I can go with anything from Green Lantern or Justice League Action or something like the Lego projects or DC Superhero Girls). Heck, you can use the DVD movie to launch a tv show.

I haven't watched a lot, but is Wonder Woman not the main POV character on DCSG like she was in that first season of the webseries?

 

[SweetShop209]

I haven't watched a lot, but is Wonder Woman not the main POV character on DCSG like she was in that first season of the webseries?

She's the main character in both DC Superhero Girls series. It's just that she's the main character in shows that are about the general DC universe, and not specifically about her lore.

 

[Frontier]

I wonder if there have been pitches for Wonder Woman cartoons that we just don't know about (other than the Wonder Woman and the Star Riders one).

I think James Tucker had a pitch for a Golden Age cartoon and used Bloodlines as an argument for an animated series.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

Batman did not get his own animated cartoon until BTAS premiered.

Batman actually got animated series in the 1960s and the 1970s, both from Filmation. The second one infamously featured Bat-mite.

 

[TheDorkKnight]

The Filmation cartoons say hi.

Batman actually got animated series in the 1960s and the 1970s, both from Filmation. The second one infamously featured Bat-mite.

Oh, wow. I am certainly misinformed. I did not know of those series from Filmation!

 

[Otaku-sempai]

Oh, wow. I am certainly misinformed. I did not know of those series from Filmation!

Both shows, especially the first one, were heavily influenced by the 1966 Batman series. The 1977 series even starred Adam West and Burt Ward in the voice cast.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

She's the least interesting character of the trinity.

Uh, I thought it universally agreed and generally thought of especially in the last 20 years Superman is considered the least interesting character of the Trinity. The fact that to the common person due to his super incredible powers and boy scout attitude he was generally difficult to connect with and hard to sell to non comic book fans. And yeah I know in the comics and most faithful mediums he isn't just that but it's clear that's what the general public believed and were sick of, thus why Superman Returns didn't work and Zack Snyder tried revamping him to mixed results in Man of Steel and no one getting behind him there. Meanwhile the DCEU obviously showed how much of a pulse and purpose Diana still has on people and how though an icon she can connect and really work in her own stories thus honestly a big reason why this Amazons show is happening in the first place. And honestly especially with her history and considering her being the most well known super heroine of all time I don't really know anyone who would consider her the most boring of the trinity. Batman obviously peaks people's interests more but sorry just because Superman's world and villains are well known doesn't mean he's more preferred over Wonder Woman.

I think by giving Wonder Woman an actual television series to develop we can make her less inconsistent. A TV series can give Wonder Woman to solidify her lore and give her a more definite background that is more accessible to young viewers. There is always a first time for every character to get their spotlight on television. Batman did not get his own animated cartoon until BTAS premiered.

As others have pointed out BTAS is NOT the first Animated Batman cartoon. Yes it is the first animated Batman cartoon that is much more serious and really embraces the more gritty and noir elements of the character and does away with the Adam West style more bright and goofy tone and corniness, but even that had a reason for it. BTAS was only greenlit as a project because of how popular the more noir and darker themed 1989 Batman movie performed. And in turn that was only given the go ahead to be made as dark and violent as it was (compared to previous interpreations) due to the Frank Miller comic The Dark Knight Strikes back finally getting the mainstream to realize in the 80's how gritty and tough a character Batman can be and actually changed the process behind how many people viewed him. So there were steps in actually getting BTAS out there that had to be followed first before it could come out the way it did.

I presume the CW hasn't done much with the character since there could still be an embargo of sorts for the live-action theatrical stuff, though the Flash is still an exception.

I think the Flash as a TV series concept was thought of and put into production as WB and the DCEU were figuring out exactly what their next move was after Man of Steel and then deciding to push forward rapidly to get a JL movie done ASAP that the Arrowverse team was able to get a TV show out before that was finalized. Though honestly I always thought those embargos were the stupidest thing that I am so grateful at least is not a thing for the cartoon series anymore and even live action show wise thankfully seems to be less of a thing. Thus why Superman's been on Supergirl a few times and is now getting his own series and you have Bruce Wayne popping in on Batwoman so clearly Batman will be in that series as well. So the embargo is lifting albeit slowly though yeah that doesn't really have to do with the rationale of why Wonder Woman doesn't have her own series. That's honestly it's own backwards logic leaps of thinking.

As Fone Bone pointed out, the reason we haven't gotten a Wonder Woman cartoon is because marketting groups felt they couldn't sell it as toys for ages which only NOW is something that may of finally changed. You do have to remember how even before the 80's, cartoons on TV once they became common enough to have in every house hold became even compared to other genres ridiculously male centertic in it's early days. Like let's even ignore restrictions and regulations given to a lot of TV shows in the later 60's and 70's; How many TV shows specifically just starred females of any kind where the focus wasn't directed towards some sort of either male comedy relief or focus of some kind? Even stuff like Josie and the Pussycats only got on the air repackaged as a Scooby Doo esque "teens being chased around by guys in monster costumes" so it wasn't a hard sell to networks. But yeah you weren't going to sell any network on a female action HERO of any kind then. Even in the 80s when companies were allowed to sell toylines disguised as series you had to make really clear what the branding and core was and could only deviate so much from that. Maybe if you were just a spin off of a recognizable brand like say with She Ra you could get a series but primarily most girl series in the 80's were stuff like Jem and My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake where the focus was on selling the romance and fashion and well generally feminine aspects of a character to sell just to that young female demographic. And you weren't going to get that with Wonder Woman which obviously as a super heroine would require more action especially since action series about DC Heroes were not really taking off around that time. I guess we did have a Spider Woman cartoon but that's a very weird outlier made by a failing company that no one was going to try and copy. And honestly though there started being more cracks coming in that didn't really change in the 90's either since you still didn't really see any big action series being made that could target both a male and female demographic. Live action was doing better with Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Xena but cartoons didn't really have that until we got original hits like Powerpuff Girls and Kim Possible and yeah those were successful and beloved but there's a difference between a unique brand trying something and established brand moving forward on it. As yeah there was still major hesistation on doing anything real Wonder Woman focused for so long. Since though there were obvious talks of doing a film of hers even back in the 90's nothing happened with that and thus she was sat on for ages as they could only use the character if they gave her a focus in something but didn't want to fully commit to a series thus her only getting focus again in some kind on Justice League/Justice League Unlimited. And honestly even in the 2000's super hero shows based on comics still weren't really doing anything with female heroes being the focus because again still werne't selling. I mean even Cartoon Network was getting rid of and turning down series that didn't do well with male demos compared to females so who were you going to sell a female super hero series too?

That has changed though with more of these tactics having been discovered and well streaming and audience focuses allowing for more diverse line ups and different kind of series. Really just like you could only get a push for a Wonder Woman movie to be made a few years back nows the only place you can get focus for a series as well. Not before in decades past but in this time because again of how attitudes and ideals just were at the time and how they have now changed.

 

[Mostezli]

Uh, I thought it universally agreed and generally thought of especially in the last 20 years Superman is considered the least interesting character of the Trinity. The fact that to the common person due to his super incredible powers and boy scout attitude he was generally difficult to connect with and hard to sell to non comic book fans. And yeah I know in the comics and most faithful mediums he isn't just that but it's clear that's what the general public believed and were sick of, thus why Superman Returns didn't work and Zack Snyder tried revamping him to mixed results in Man of Steel and no one getting behind him there. Meanwhile the DCEU obviously showed how much of a pulse and purpose Diana still has on people and how though an icon she can connect and really work in her own stories thus honestly a big reason why this Amazons show is happening in the first place. And honestly especially with her history and considering her being the most well known super heroine of all time I don't really know anyone who would consider her the most boring of the trinity. Batman obviously peaks people's interests more but sorry just because Superman's world and villains are well known doesn't mean he's more preferred over Wonder Woman.

That Superman argument has been made irrespective of Wonder Woman; almost always in reference to the World's Finest. In adapted media, I've seen similar criticism laced at her characterization, albeit there's little-no mention on her maintaining a normal life which is ultimately his apparent "boy scout" appeal. She's just, as someone else put it, an "icon" people recognize.
The other DC ladies have been more hip & cool & relatable, which is why in her latest DCSHG depiction she comes across as Starfire.
Superman Returns failed because that was an insanely belated sequel to Donner's movies without making the endearing/charming Donner-isms work which Wonder Woman did do such as the actual romantic buddy comedy, not to mention the butt-kicking soldier killing Ares hunting story. That is 8 years since her solo outing in that 2009 animated movie. DC could have and should have produced a She-Ra / Xena: Warrior Princess-styled series post-Super Friends & -Lynda Carter. And then in the 2000s, these female led superhero & action movies/shows came & went whilst her animated popularity didn't at all seem as soaring as Kim Possible.

 

[Frontier]

That Superman argument has been made irrespective of Wonder Woman; almost always in reference to the World's Finest. In adapted media, I've seen similar criticism laced at her characterization, albeit there's little-no mention on her maintaining a normal life which is ultimately his apparent "boy scout" appeal. She's just, as someone else put it, an "icon" people recognize.
The other DC ladies have been more hip & cool & relatable, which is why in her latest DCSHG depiction she comes across as Starfire.
Superman Returns failed because that was an insanely belated sequel to Donner's movies without making the endearing/charming Donner-isms work which Wonder Woman did do such as the actual romantic buddy comedy, not to mention the butt-kicking soldier killing Ares hunting story. That is 8 years since her solo outing in that 2009 animated movie. DC could have and should have produced a She-Ra / Xena: Warrior Princess-styled series post-Super Friends & -Lynda Carter. And then in the 2000s, these female led superhero & action movies/shows came & went whilst her animated popularity didn't at all seem as soaring as Kim Possible.

I think Batgirl is more like Starfire on DCSHG then Diana is.

 

[Mostezli]

I think Batgirl is more like Starfire on DCSHG then Diana is.

Did they dissect Starfire into more than one character? Just saw a clip with J. Cruz and that gave me Starfire vibes.

 

[RoyalRubble]

Not to get too much off-topic here, but I think it's been alluded to in the past there was some kind of issue for Wonder Woman and she couldn't guest-star in animated series, she had to be a main character (i.e. Justice League-type of show) if it wasn't her own show. I seem to remember this was the reason she didn't appear on Superman TAS, although I could be remembering things wrong (since she did have guest-starring roles earlier in the 70s and 80s, and in more recent times as well).

 

[Yojimbo]

Not to get too much off-topic here, but I think it's been alluded to in the past there was some kind of issue for Wonder Woman and she couldn't guest-star in animated series, she had to be a main character (i.e. Justice League-type of show) if it wasn't her own show. I seem to remember this was the reason she didn't appear on Superman TAS, although I could be remembering things wrong (since she did have guest-starring roles earlier in the 70s and 80s, and in more recent times as well).

I recall there was a rights issue between DC and the Marston estate? Or they were trying to make a movie at the time? And I think even back when, Bruce Timm had to lobby to use Wonder Woman on Justice League. He of course got the okay but there was still a weird guideline to the point they had to have her referred to as "Diana" a lot. Then the overall issue went away at some point during production of Young Justice season 1 but it was too far in so they changed their plan and opted to start using Wonder Girl in season 2 instead.

EDIT: I think it was in the Justice League Season One DVD. There was a Wonder Embargo starting in the late 90s/early 2000s when they were first trying to make a live action movie and that put the kibosh on a large volume of appearances of WW, her rogues, and her supporting cast. Well on paper at least, for that decade.

 

[TheDorkKnight]

EDIT: I think it was in the Justice League Season One DVD. There was a Wonder Embargo starting in the late 90s/early 2000s when they were first trying to make a live action movie and that put the kibosh on a large volume of appearances of WW, her rogues, and her supporting cast. Well on paper at least, for that decade.

I was just rewatching the commentaries on Justice League Season One this past week, and I do recall Bruce Timm saying that they did face difficulty in getting the rights of Wonder Woman. And I can't recall where but I heard she would have been used in the Batman Beyond episode "The Call." So it seems in the late-90's/early-2000's there was some difficulty in using the Wonder Woman character.

 

[hobbyfan]

Oh, wow. I am certainly misinformed. I did not know of those series from Filmation!

They're available on DVD from Warner Home Video if you can find them. The 1977 New Adventures of Batman, starring Adam West & Burt Ward, also had Bat-Mite crushing on Batgirl (which Robin was doing in the books in those days). That series also had Barbara Gordon working out of the DA's office, IIRC. Speaking as a fellow Batgirl fan, I could understand Bat-Mite being the lovesick fanboy, representing all the young boys that were watching.

Of the trinity, this unfortunately seems to be the case. We know what can heighten her presence, but that doesn't change her history of adapted exposure.

Also, are you talking about the same tv pilot with Adrianne Paliki in the role?
That's gotta be one of worst DC-related productions.

That's the one.

Mod Note: Double Post merged.

 

[Frontier]

I recall there was a rights issue between DC and the Marston estate? Or they were trying to make a movie at the time? And I think even back when, Bruce Timm had to lobby to use Wonder Woman on Justice League. He of course got the okay but there was still a weird guideline to the point they had to have her referred to as "Diana" a lot. Then the overall issue went away at some point during production of Young Justice season 1 but it was too far in so they changed their plan and opted to start using Wonder Girl in season 2 instead.

EDIT: I think it was in the Justice League Season One DVD. There was a Wonder Embargo starting in the late 90s/early 2000s when they were first trying to make a live action movie and that put the kibosh on a large volume of appearances of WW, her rogues, and her supporting cast. Well on paper at least, for that decade.

I also recall they couldn't use Wonder Girl in the original Teen Titans cartoon so she was only able to make a cameo, despite them doing a character design for Donna.

 

[RoyalRubble]

I think Batman: The Brave and the Bold was the first modern show where Wonder Woman guest-starred, after the rights issue was resolved. But she didn't exactly get a real team-up with Batman other than a teaser, since her other major appearance was alongside Superman as well.

If studios don't think a solo Wonder Woman animated series would really have a fan following or whatever, the next best thing might be a Trinity series which would probably have a better chance of succeeding. Though I still hope Diana will get her own cartoon show, eventually.

 

[Yojimbo]

I was just rewatching the commentaries on Justice League Season One this past week, and I do recall Bruce Timm saying that they did face difficulty in getting the rights of Wonder Woman. And I can't recall where but I heard she would have been used in the Batman Beyond episode "The Call." So it seems in the late-90's/early-2000's there was some difficulty in using the Wonder Woman character.

Yeah, I remember they talked about it. That's why they used Big Barda. It was mentioned in Back Issue #104 page 67. "The original intention was to have Wonder Woman as a League member, but the producers were unable to use her at the time, so Barda stepped in as a substitute."

I also recall they couldn't use Wonder Girl in the original Teen Titans cartoon so she was only able to make a cameo, despite them doing a character design for Donna.

Yes, that's another example.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

I also recall they couldn't use Wonder Girl in the original Teen Titans cartoon so she was only able to make a cameo, despite them doing a character design for Donna.

That makes me wonder: What changed between the 1967 Filmation shorts (which did feature Wonder Girl) and the 2003 series?

 

[Yojimbo]

That makes me wonder: What changed between the 1967 Filmation shorts (which did feature Wonder Girl) and the 2003 series?

In the latter time frame they were actively trying to make a live action Wonder Woman movie.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

@Mostezli: Wonder Woman? Least interesting? In the words of one Homey D. Clown, excuse me, I don't think so.

I would substitute "least interesting" with "the one with the least number of her own shows and films".