"The Invincible Iron Man" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)


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Kyuss

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Dec 1, 2006
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I'm under the assumption that, like you Kuwabara, the second movie improves a great deal to help garner a better showing (and certainly better scripting for starters) to have this occur.
 

Ed Liu

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I thought it the movie was OK. I certainly liked it a lot more than Ultimate Avengers. The commercial breaks on CN were pretty annoying and disruptive, but that's no fault of the movie's. Most of my reservations revolve around the way it kind of lurches around all over the place and undermines itself on quite a few occasions. As others have mentioned, the whole "I built lots of armors before this" seemed more like an expedient way to get more suits in quickly rather than something natural. I think Tony's dad was also meant to come off as enigmatic, but he just seemed wishy-washy and ineffectual to me. I wasn't as bothered by Li Mei's characterization -- she was caught in the push-and-pull of her own desires and her sense of obligation. I thought that was one of the better elements, actually, and mirrored Tony's conflicts with his father in an interesting way.

I did totally dig the suit Tony made as a captive, though, and how its resemblance to medieval plate mail proved to be more than just a stylistic flourish.

I actually didn't mind the CGI animation quite so much, but I was watching it on VHS after the fact. I suspect that may have smoothed out some of the rougher parts.

I thought it was a good movie until I'd read something on the IMDb formus that critized the protrayals of Asains in the movie as racist. I don't know that they're blowing something out of proportions or might be on to something. If it is the latter, then I regret watching it.
I don't know that I'd call it "racist" as much as just ignorant. As mentioned, the Mandarin is a very Fu-Manchu "Yellow Peril/Mongol Horde" villain and always has been. I thought they did a decent enough job to get away from that (even if he didn't get quite as much screen time as some would like).

However, it's pretty dumb that everybody, including all the Chinese characters, calls him "the Mandarin" because that's not a Chinese term, but one that Europeans applied to Chinese. It's equivalent to a white supervillain based in America calling himself "The Fan-gwai-lo" (a Cantonese term that literally translates to "foreign devil") -- it just doesn't make any sense.

It gets worse because the ancient background that goes back 3,000 years (well before any Chinese had encountered European culture) makes calling him the Mandarin pretty ridiculous. It would have made more sense if he had been a figure from the Boxer Rebellion or even maybe Marco Polo's time, and making "The Mandarin" the name that Europeans called him. Or just rename the character entirely. He shares so little with the original version that he is effectively a new villain anyway.

The other one, which is really a minor quibble, is that "Wong Chu" sounds like a totally bogus, made up name. They call him "Mr. Chu" in a few parts, which is backwards (Chinese names go last-name first, so "Chow Yun Fat" is "Mr. Chow," not "Mr. Fat"), and the whole thing sounds more like 2 last names strung together. It's like naming a character "Roberts Clooney" -- it just sounds weird.

None of these are really deal breakers (to me, anyway). I know that both of these characters have far-reaching comic book roots. However, for all the stuff where they deviated from the comics, I'm a bit annoyed that the producers don't seem to have shown the script or the movie to real Chinese people to ask, "What did Stan Lee get wrong 40 years ago?"

Beyond that, there's the usual nonsense about how Chinese are mystical and magical, while Westerners are technological. If you want to push it, what kind of message is it sending that the magic is all evil and the West's technology ultimately triumphs over the Chinese magic? However, I don't want to push it because I don't think it's worth it and I certainly don't think there was any conscious intent there. I think they just wanted to tell a good action story to sell DVDs, and I think they mostly succeeded at it.

-- Ed
 

Spider-Man

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Jan 7, 2002
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As others have mentioned, the whole "I built lots of armors before this" seemed more like an expedient way to get more suits in quickly rather than something natural.
Maybe I got suckered into the explanation by the creative team but I actually liked the fact that this was something Tony was working on before he was caputred. It actually works for how he was portrayed in the movie. Plus it added some natural tension between him and Rhodey and worked to get him out of capitivity sooner (which would have dragged on forever if that was his first suit). Why would it have been better if he never built a suit before?
 

Bones Justice

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Dec 29, 2003
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The other one, which is really a minor quibble, is that "Wong Chu" sounds like a totally bogus, made up name. They call him "Mr. Chu" in a few parts, which is backwards (Chinese names go last-name first, so "Chow Yun Fat" is "Mr. Chow," not "Mr. Fat"), and the whole thing sounds more like 2 last names strung together. It's like naming a character "Roberts Clooney" -- it just sounds weird.
I'm not sure how it is in China but there are a lot of people in the United States with two "first" names. Not that it makes it right for a fictional character, but it's at least a possibility. For example: "Peter Parker", "Jeff George", or "Andy Dick". (Sorry about that last one but you get the idea.)

Beyond that, there's the usual nonsense about how Chinese are mystical and magical, while Westerners are technological. If you want to push it, what kind of message is it sending that the magic is all evil and the West's technology ultimately triumphs over the Chinese magic? However, I don't want to push it because I don't think it's worth it and I certainly don't think there was any conscious intent there. I think they just wanted to tell a good action story to sell DVDs, and I think they mostly succeeded at it.
I think you are reading too much into it. I never got the impression that "all magic is evil" from this film. Nor did I get the impression that they were saying China was all about magic while the West was all about technology. The Mandarin was magic; Tony Stark was technology. The fact that the two of them battled was not meant as an absolute for either culture. Also, it wasn't technology that defeated The Mandarin in the end anyways; it was the girl's strength of character and perhaps her own "good" magic, if you will.
 

Christopher Glennon

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Finally got this and watched it. I'm going to have to say I prefer the Ultimate Avengers movies. I thought this was okay.

I liked Tony's conflict with his father and the board and how that mirrored Li Mei's story. I thought the ending with Howard was a little simple, but I dug Tony's relationship with Rhodey and Pepper. He grew as a person.

I'm a little torn on the action. There were some really great shots I took notice of, but I don't think it flowed that well overall. The armor designs look cooler in theory than in practice. Maybe there needed to be a longer battle with the Mandarin because I prefer the way he looked in UA.

I would have liked a few aerial shots of Iron Man to cap off the film (like the Spidey films, or the Superman movies), and the happy ending with his father seemed way too neat and tidy. After all the conflict between Tony and Howard in the film, it just seemed too 'happily ever after'. I did like it when Howard told the guy with the stopwatch to shut up though.
I agree with that, especially the aerial shots and Tony calling himself Iron Man and deciding to be a hero or something along those lines.

I also thought it was kind of retarded how that girl was all like "It's my destiny" and crap up until she summoned Mandarin, and then after she summoned Mandarin, for no reason, she decided to turn on him. I mean, earlier she had told Iron Man that he would die, so it makes no sense that later on she wouldn't be willing to sacrifice him. Though, to be honest her whole motivation throughout the movie didn't make much sense to me.
I liked the twist that she was the Mandarin's descendant, but then some of her motivation doesn't make much sense.
 

fiero84

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Jan 23, 2005
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Iron Man rocks

This was great CGI. You always get somewhat less action with 'origin' stories, even with Batman. A sequel would probably have more action.

It was a nice tribute to the original grey armour. It's just 'tricked up' a little from the 1963 comic version. Tony Stark does change after his ordeal to be a better man.
We get to see several armours in here. Overall, I think they got the gist of Iron man. No complaints here.
 

Yuro Sensei

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Jul 26, 2005
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SPOILERS

Can someone please explain why Li Mei was reluctantly part of an organization which opposed the raising of the city, yet was also a descendant of the Mandarin and participated in his resurrection?

-Jeremy
 

James Harvey

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With the premiere of the live-action Iron Man movie just around the corner, what better time than now to look back at his first solo animated feature!

The Invincible Iron Man
January 23rd, 2007 - Direct To Video/DVD Release

Synopsis: Past and present collide in this epic adventure that reveals the origin of Iron Man. While raising the ruins of a long buried Chinese kingdom, billionaire inventor Tony Stark digs up far more than he bargained for. He unleashes an age-old prophecy that foretells the resurrection of the Mandarin, the emperor of China's darkest and most violent dynasty

Comments? What are your thoughts?

Please post all discussions, comments, etc, concerning the feature movie here! Discussion for the DVD itself can be found in the link provided below.

Related Threads:
-Iron Man Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-The Invincible Iron Man DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
-The Invincible Iron Man Soundtrack Talkback (Spoilers)
-The Invincible Iron Man Review at Marvel Animation Age (Spoilers)
-Ultimate Avengers 2: Rise of the Panther Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-Ultimate Avengers: The Movie Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
 

limel

Active Member
Jul 2, 2006
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That was great!



...up until the last 20 minutes. The build-up was great, but that battle in the end made no sense. My main problems with what happened during the time my enjoyment of the film decreased:

1. They should have clothed the girl. For one, it was completely unnecessary. The shadow thing[which had no explanation for existing besides to cover the nudity] kept getting in the way of the action, and just made the whole scene feel awkward.

2. The animation "tricks." I appreciate them for trying, but it didn't work; the 3-D and 2-D together in a 2-D environment trying to use both 3-D and 2-D animation tricks ended up just being confusing as to where the action was, and if something was staying still or in motion-- it was confusing, from both a viewer's and an animator's perspective.

3. The story made NO SENSE. It was going along fine, up until the girl got all five rings. Her actions made no sense, what happened when she entered the temple made no sense, how she got back to the "good side" was both cliche and made no sense-- NOTHING MADE SENSE!


Overall it was a good movie. If it weren't for those last couple scenes, the movie probably would have gotten a 4.5/5 score from me... But now it's down to a 3.5/5, possibly a 3.

P.S. This is coming from a person with no prior exposure to Iron man-- Never before had I read a single Iron Man comic, seen an episode of any series with him in it, seen any movies with him... You get the point. I watched this before I saw the live-action movie, which, btw, was AWESOME.
 

Wonderwall

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I'm surprised I hadn't commented on this movie before, as I had seen it about..a year and a half ago? I can't remember when the exact date it was when it came out, but I remember watching it about a week after it came out( borrowed it from a friend ). It was meh, especially after watching the live action movie a few days ago. It's not totally fair comparison but, the animated one, really needed tighter writing and editing. I would say that it needed more time( like all these movies not titled Dr. Strange ), but that would've made this movie worse as it just plods along, I remember almost falling asleep. Some of the 3D stuff looked nice, but like I have said many times, 2D and 3D on a small budget just does not work, nor should it be expected to, so why does it still happen? So far the weakest of Marvel's outings in DTV market. 2.5 stars, it did have some nice action beats here and there, it was a pretty traditional retelling of the origin, and Tony is always a good character, but yea overall, weak movie that is worth a rent, not a purchase.
 

James Harvey

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Now that The Invincible Iron Man is available in Blu-ray, will you be giving it another spin?


The Invincible Iron Man
January 23rd, 2007 - Direct To Video/DVD Release
September 2nd, 2008 - High-Definition Blu-ray Release


Synopsis: Past and present collide in this epic adventure that reveals the origin of Iron Man. While raising the ruins of a long buried Chinese kingdom, billionaire inventor Tony Stark digs up far more than he bargained for. He unleashes an age-old prophecy that foretells the resurrection of the Mandarin, the emperor of China's darkest and most violent dynasty

Comments?

Please post all discussions, comments, etc, concerning the feature movie here! Discussion for the DVD itself can be found in the link provided below.

Related Threads:
-The Invincible Iron Man DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
-The Invincible Iron Man Soundtrack Talkback (Spoilers)
-The Invincible Iron Man Review at Marvel Animation Age (Spoilers)
-Ultimate Avengers 2: Rise of the Panther Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
-Ultimate Avengers: The Movie Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
 

Spideyzilla

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Jul 23, 2008
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I bought the DVD as well and have watched it twice so far. I probably will watch parts of it again but the beginning is extremely slow. As everyone else has mentioned, Mandarin needed to be in it for more than five minutes. Rhodey was kind of boring in it, too. I previously posted that Rhodey should have showed up in the end as War Machine.

I've never seen the Iron Man television series. I'd give it a try if they would ever release the DVD.
Yeah, Rhodey should have been War Machine. Tony should have given him the armour to help him fight the Mandrian.
 

sdp

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Dec 12, 2004
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Finally watched the movie and I really liked it. Yeah it has flaws and its not in the best of the Marvel DTVs but its not a bad one either. I had low expectations coming in because of negative reviews and the plot didn't sound too well but I left happy.

His origin story is done well, I really liked the whole thing about him already built the IM suits. I loved the interactions with his dad, they were done very good. The elementals were handled very well as well, its what I must dreaded from this. The final battle with the Mandarin is indeed a dissapointment but oh well doesn't hurt the movie as much as you'd think.


Though while watching it it really reminded me of Dr. Strange. Either both just have some very similar origins or both DTVs were done in a very similar style. In fact a few shots reminded me of Dr. Strange's DTV.
 

Miyamoto Musashi

Law Enforcer
Nov 18, 2007
3,994
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Just now watched the movie, and what I have to say is not being pleased enough by the movie

The changes that happened:
1. Jim Rhodes is not a member of the U.S Air Force, or the army, he's a chief engineer for Stark Enterprises
2. The head of the red Vietnamese army and tyrant is a leader of nationalist Chinese people working hard to prevent a major disaster from occurring
3. Mandarin is not a contemporary villain, more like an ancient beast
4. Lei Mei, from the early Iron Man issues of Iron Man by "Archie Goodwyn" & "George Tuska" is not a servant of Mandarin in love with him, but then sees otherwise, here she's one of the Dragons
5. Howard Stark is alive, and in charge of the company
6. Tony came up with the suit idea before being captured, very long before being captured
7. Ho Yinsen is a monk, and he didn't help Stark to save his life alone, instead he was aided by Rhodes

I like the changes made, though the execution falls near the end, really HARD

Stark Enterprises aided the Chinese government to uplift an ancient city from underground using liquid steel, indestructible, they didn't know what the Dragon gang knew about the dangers of bringing the city up
Howard Stark sent weapons to aid Rhodey, the weapons were stolen and used against them

The committee of big wig shareholders decide to fire Tony, with approval of his father cause they don't like how he apparently waste their money, even with the documents he gave them revealing the high profits make up for the money Tony spent

Tony is fired, but he still works in his company

Howard acts like a terrible father and business partner towards his son, turning him to S.H.I.E.L.D. for providing weapons illegally to the Chinese gang, and keeps acting like a real bad guy you don't want to know

Mei Lei comes to Tony, she gets his help to keep Mandarin away from being resurrected, to show that she wants him resurrected herself cause it's her duty as one of his descendants, she fights Tony when she's totally indecent, Tony shouts to her and she resists what she did cause she planned to do so, and he convinced her that that isn't what she wanted, and then the ancient Mandarin dies

Tony buys most of his company shares from the stockholder, and gives great control to his father, the one who stood against Tony most of the feature, then they suddenly act like loving father and son, Howard lashes out and fires everyone else of the stockholders, and there you have the happy ending

WHAT?!!!!
 

Trevor

Active Member
Jun 10, 2009
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So I just found the DVD at a pawn shop for $1 the other day. It was okay; I found I was wishing for more of an Iron Man: Armoured Adventures take.

The Mandarin was very weak. I thought they would’ve had the Mandarin take over completely the body of Li, rather than the spectral ghost thing they came up with.
 

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