"The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (Disney+ Limited Series)" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Neo Ultra Mike

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To be honest, the way they handled her basically killed her chances as a leading lady in my opinion now that she's a behind-the-scenes villain type.

Uh what chances were there of her becoming a leading lady in anything? It's pretty clear the Carter in the MCU people are interested in is Peggy Carter, not Sharon Carter. Thus why Peggy despite having canonically died in Civil War has had so many more appearances, even starring in a TV show and heck is going to show up again in What If as a major player there. Meanwhile until this show Sharon's been arguably the least important "still considered a supporting cast member" facet of Winter Soldier and Civil War as the "girl maybe Steve might have interest in- oh wait he went back for Peggy never mind that" and not much else. If Sharon had just showed up here as a hero I doubt many people would of cared but her having these shady dealings and being the Power Broker actually does do something unique with the character and make her much more then "Modern day barely seen Peggy Carter". Plus again I think Emily VanCamp sells the idea and whether or not she's a skrull (which BTW is something the team can't really talk about either way so that's still up in the air) it at least allows the character to do something which we wouldn't of gotten before.
 

Frontier

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Uh what chances were there of her becoming a leading lady in anything? It's pretty clear the Carter in the MCU people are interested in is Peggy Carter, not Sharon Carter. Thus why Peggy despite having canonically died in Civil War has had so many more appearances, even starring in a TV show and heck is going to show up again in What If as a major player there. Meanwhile until this show Sharon's been arguably the least important "still considered a supporting cast member" facet of Winter Soldier and Civil War as the "girl maybe Steve might have interest in- oh wait he went back for Peggy never mind that" and not much else. If Sharon had just showed up here as a hero I doubt many people would of cared but her having these shady dealings and being the Power Broker actually does do something unique with the character and make her much more then "Modern day barely seen Peggy Carter". Plus again I think Emily VanCamp sells the idea and whether or not she's a skrull (which BTW is something the team can't really talk about either way so that's still up in the air) it at least allows the character to do something which we wouldn't of gotten before.
Well, I could go into how the MCU kind of screwed over Sharon in favor of Peggy (and to some extent Black Widow), but that's a whole 'nother thing.

This was their chance to sell people on Sharon and instead they basically turn her into the exact opposite of what Sharon Carter, as a character, is supposed to stand for and honestly I don't think they put that much thought into it. Because I guess the MCU had such a female villain problem that we may as well turn heroic women evil at this point.
 

Fone Bone

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It's weird, I actually kind of wanted this. But I think they went too far with it. A little ambiguity would have been nice. But Sharon turned into a monster instead. I disagree with the producers that there is any explanation of excuse for her actions.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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This was their chance to sell people on Sharon and instead they basically turn her into the exact opposite of what Sharon Carter, as a character, is supposed to stand for and honestly I don't think they put that much thought into it. Because I guess the MCU had such a female villain problem that we may as well turn heroic women evil at this point.

I don't really think the MCU especially now has a female villain problem. There was one when Perlmutter was more in charge who didn't even allow for main female villains because they "didn't sell toys" (yeah he said crud like that it's the big reason why Rebecca Hall's Maya Hensen's was not the main villain in Iron man 3 when that was Shane Black's original pitch for the flick) but not really so much now. We've had Hela, Ghost and with these latest shows Agatha Harkness and Kharli. I know the later especially people had issues with but not because she was female at all. Not to mention we haven't really seen heel turns or hints of one from any other female character so just because we're getting it this one time doesn't mean it's a pattern. Also...

It's weird, I actually kind of wanted this. But I think they went too far with it. A little ambiguity would have been nice. But Sharon turned into a monster instead. I disagree with the producers that there is any explanation of excuse for her actions.

Like we still don't know the full story since the focus was more on Sam and Bucky with Sharon being much more on the side. Though really I don't see her as a "complete monster" since she still wanted to help Sam and Bucky and honestly we still don't know what her endgame is as it's clear the team do have plans but we dont' know what their full scope is but I'm perfectly fine seeing what they are.
 

Frontier

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I don't really think the MCU especially now has a female villain problem. There was one when Perlmutter was more in charge who didn't even allow for main female villains because they "didn't sell toys" (yeah he said crud like that it's the big reason why Rebecca Hall's Maya Hensen's was not the main villain in Iron man 3 when that was Shane Black's original pitch for the flick) but not really so much now. We've had Hela, Ghost and with these latest shows Agatha Harkness and Kharli. I know the later especially people had issues with but not because she was female at all. Not to mention we haven't really seen heel turns or hints of one from any other female character so just because we're getting it this one time doesn't mean it's a pattern. Also...
Hela is one thing, but Ghost was barely a villain and that only makes four in total of major female villains.

And even in the case of Agatha it's another case of them taking someone who isn't evil in the comics and making them a villain to service the plot. And that's not even getting into whether you view Wanda as a villain for her actions (or an anti-hero at worst).

I guess it's a good thing there doesn't seem to be any recognizable, heroically-aligned, female characters in Loki (as far as we know).
Like we still don't know the full story since the focus was more on Sam and Bucky with Sharon being much more on the side. Though really I don't see her as a "complete monster" since she still wanted to help Sam and Bucky and honestly we still don't know what her endgame is as it's clear the team do have plans but we dont' know what their full scope is but I'm perfectly fine seeing what they are.
She wanted to help Sam and Bucky to get to the Flag-Smashers and get her pardon. I don't think she actually cares about them.
 

Frontier

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Glad the cast were able to have some fun on-film :).
She didn't need to directly hurt Sam to be a baddie...she wanted that pardon :mad:.

(I wonder how far ahead the MCU thinks about characters and stuff because it seems like they just leave a lot of stuff up in the ether that they may not actually have any plans for).
But does marketing believe that :sweat:?
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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Hela is one thing, but Ghost was barely a villain and that only makes four in total of major female villains.

Ghost was still way more a threat and more an interesting character then say Jude Law's Yon Rogg. Plus again we're only getting more now because a-hole Perlmutter was in charge of the MCU in the first two phases and wouldn't allow it thus only phase 3 really could start with that and we are getting more branching out but you know has to make sense and fit the project.

And even in the case of Agatha it's another case of them taking someone who isn't evil in the comics and making them a villain to service the plot.

Agatha's debately gray at highest morality in the comics for the most part. Yeah she's more Wanda's mentor but considering Wanda's history that isn't always a good thing. Speaking of that....

And that's not even getting into whether you view Wanda as a villain for her actions (or an anti-hero at worst).

Going by the comics Wanda started off far more as a general villain and even when she became a hero has done a fair amount of villianous things thanks to her grief and magical instability. So that being explored and shown in WandaVision IS being faithful to the source material.

I guess it's a good thing there doesn't seem to be any recognizable, heroically-aligned, female characters in Loki (as far as we know).

Unless you're going to be made at Gugu Mbatha Raw's character if she winds up being evil despite Ravonna in the comics having a history of duplicity. Which based on your track record you might get angry about.

She wanted to help Sam and Bucky to get to the Flag-Smashers and get her pardon. I don't think she actually cares about them.

Uh even the creative team said she held no grudge against Sam and Bucky and was fine helping them out. Yeah a fair amount of it was for her own ends but her disgust and annoyance is mostly at the government not at them which makes her again another shade of grey in a series full of them.

(I wonder how far ahead the MCU thinks about characters and stuff because it seems like they just leave a lot of stuff up in the ether that they may not actually have any plans for).

Dependent on the character and how crucial they are to certain movie plans since Marvel has admitted they have plans for like up to 10 years of shows and films so if a character is important to those they obviously do have more concrete plans then a more supporting or side character who they'll expand if they happen to become generally more liked and appreciated by the fan base.
 

Frontier

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Ghost was still way more a threat and more an interesting character then say Jude Law's Yon Rogg. Plus again we're only getting more now because a-hole Perlmutter was in charge of the MCU in the first two phases and wouldn't allow it thus only phase 3 really could start with that and we are getting more branching out but you know has to make sense and fit the project.
Starforce was a joke but I felt like Yon-Rogg was a more effective villain, but to each their own (Minn-Erva was a waste though).

I'm all for more major female villains, I just don't think this show sets a good precedent for them.
Agatha's debately gray at highest morality in the comics for the most part. Yeah she's more Wanda's mentor but considering Wanda's history that isn't always a good thing. Speaking of that....
I think comic Agatha is debatably good at her highest morality in terms of the comics, even if she uses gray methods at times, but she's ultimately on the side of the angels and even took care of Franklin Richards.
Going by the comics Wanda started off far more as a general villain and even when she became a hero has done a fair amount of villianous things thanks to her grief and magical instability. So that being explored and shown in WandaVision IS being faithful to the source material.
But a lot of that was bad writing, which has dogged Wanda for the comics in years, which is why I was disappointed that the show made her as culpable in Westview as she ended up being.
Unless you're going to be made at Gugu Mbatha Raw's character if she winds up being evil despite Ravonna in the comics having a history of duplicity. Which based on your track record you might get angry about.
I at least hope whatever they do with Ravonna has more of a basis in it than making Sharon Carter the Power Broker.
Uh even the creative team said she held no grudge against Sam and Bucky and was fine helping them out. Yeah a fair amount of it was for her own ends but her disgust and annoyance is mostly at the government not at them which makes her again another shade of grey in a series full of them.
I don't think she has to have a grudge against them to want to use them for her own ends.
Dependent on the character and how crucial they are to certain movie plans since Marvel has admitted they have plans for like up to 10 years of shows and films so if a character is important to those they obviously do have more concrete plans then a more supporting or side character who they'll expand if they happen to become generally more liked and appreciated by the fan base.
Not sure where Sharon fits into that considering how they've been using her...
 

Yojimbo

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4/30: An interview with Kari Skogland.
-On motorcycle stunts.
-On Sam's speech.
-Confirms Contessa was always on the show.
-Confirms 3/4 of the show was filmed before the shutdown.
-During shutdown/post, they did a lot of experimenting with how lighthearted to do John Walker, looked at 6 episodes and changed 'the dial' then the racially charged protests in the real world made the crew feel their story had even more relevance.
-On using Isaiah as a touchstone for Sam for taking up the shield.
-Gets mum on Steve's status.
-Loved Eli Bradley, loved the generational angle of the show, also with Sarah's kid plays with the shield.
-Explains the Madripoor nightclub scene was to show the characters as just people having fun.
--Did 25-30 takes of it. Bruhl got into it.
-On Sharon
-On Karli, the slippery slope of radicalization and shifts to toxic, injustice of Donya's death propelled her, poked holes in what makes a hero, but her poor decisions cost her
-Sam is considering 'what is a hero', 'of today?', 'of the future?'
-On Sam refusing to fight Karli
-Was relieved other MCU heroes didn't appear, because she already had 6-8 people fighting on screen and that was enough coverage to deal with.

5/1: Isaiah Bradley's house at at 66 Hogue Street NE in Atlanta, Georgia was filmed blocks away from MLK's birthplace.

Zemo's mask has just from his military past.

Spellman comments on the reveal about Sharon.

Spellman reveals there was talk about giving Sam's powers.
 
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Frontier

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Fitting :).
Makes sense, even if they never really justified it beyond "it's Zemo's comic mask" :sweat:.

I think a better question is if he'll ever wear it again o_O.
I mean, I got that part. A lot of people compared it to her Waid/Garney era. But making her the Power Broker :confused:?
The only point I could see to giving him powers is if Redwing was a real bird and not a drone :(.
 

Yojimbo

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Medinnus

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Uh even the creative team said she held no grudge against Sam and Bucky and was fine helping them out. Yeah a fair amount of it was for her own ends but her disgust and annoyance is mostly at the government not at them which makes her again another shade of grey in a series full of them.

And perfectly in-character for Sharon Carter during the Mark Waid run, btw. Although to be fair, I think that may not have been intentional LOL
 

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