"The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (Disney+ Limited Series)" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Neo Ultra Mike

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"One World, One People" - I admit action wise I don't think this show had a better scene then the first episode. Not that this one was bad or anything as this did have some pretty cool moves especially on Sam's part. How he was able to knock Batroc back before jumping out the window and then get the upgraded Red Wing to triangulate information as he knocked out one pilot of the plane and grabbed another to take out so that woman could fly it down was cool but honestly that opening chase in the desert rocks was staged a lot better and a lot more thrilling was this kept cutting to either half chase downs through the street or not well coregraphed brawls. Like having Walker piled on top of those flag smashers or Bucky narrowing dodging one having a pulled out parking meter trying to crush him should be really cool but I don't think they were that well or interestingly staged to really feel the impact. Not to mention the whole big plan of "well let's hold them hostage and bomb them in case things go south" felt like a pretty lame grand scope even for this sort of show. Granted I get the point was that it was desperate and showed how far Kharli had gone down but it wasn't really that impactful. Also though it was saved with what she did at the end the whole reveal of Sharon is the Power Broker didn't really have much impact if her whole plan was "just come back to work for me" and then just getting shot for over half the fight. I do give them props for having her take out Batroc and later Kharli but that also felt a bit "I guess we don't want the hands of our heroes to be that bloody even against these terrorists" I mean it wasn't staged at least as obnoxiously as WandaVision's final fight as Sam did at least somewhat fight back more against Kharli even if he didn't try killing her but... eh that whole exchange did feel a bit lacking for me. Especially since Captain America especially Winter Soldier and Civil War had such great fights and this is the obvious follow up and nothing really hit nearly as well and since that is half the episode it does kind of sour me on this somewhat...

But thankfully the second half wrap up was actually much stronger. Once someone called Sam "Captain Falcon" (I have to wonder if the writing team knows the joke/reference people will make for that but screw it still a good laugh even if not meant as one) and we got to Sam confronting the GRC about what's going to happen. Like seriously I have a feeling a lot of this series was just built up for that big gigantic speech that Sam gave the head GRC guy pretty much pointing out "This person spent so much time willing to lay down their live trying to stop this vote and you don't even care why" and pointing out how they have to be better, knowing about the struggle and about powerlessness but pointing out that for once this world has an event that did bring them all together and had them feel this crushing low and now has to work together to be better. See some people have criticized the MCU for taking too much a "crashes hard too much against groups trying to corrupt the status quo and always paints them as the villains" but really there has to be a balance and there has to be trying to fix what we have now not just thinking you can just flush what we have and start over. The "you're right I don't know how complex but should it really just be people like you who make these choices and not the ones who suffer the most" was some real powerful poigant stuff and to me shows the important message this show champions above all else; try to understand all sides and do better for everyone's benefit. And you know this wasn't said but quite honestly this is a sediment that though Steve championed, Sam is better at reflecting how people NOW need to hear and understand it. As this is more about just freedom but about connection and trying to make right what was wrong and just felt like the right thing to hear. I admit I didn't think the best part of Sam being Captain America would be the words he'd say instead of his actions but I'll be damned if that wasn't such a moving scene. And hey they even had a fun good banter joke with Bucky snarkily saying "I only heard the part about being balck and stars and stripes" but yeah still shows he obvious gave his respect and support for this new Captain America.

And again the rest of this episode more then makes up for the not really compelling fight scene that proceeded it. I really like the idea of Zemo taking out those final super soldiers and having them blown up even in the raft. Shows he obviously made some connections and is still a danger but again by his own code and it not needing to be hammered in. I also like seeing Walker become U.S Agent. Again I'm glad this show made him complex and didn't just make him crazy with super soldier and had him still as a hero. Yeah him being owned by the Flag Smashers was pretty weak since he really should of atl east gotten off more after how Kharli smack talked Lamar like that but do like him actually working to help the people and non verbally being fine with Sam being Captain America. It does show the guy isn't just a simple one note jerk and though obvious he'd become Agent the scene of "Val" and his wife waiting for him in the costume and him admiring was nice and yeah obvious we'll be seeing him in... something going forward. Dark Avengers maybe? Since he's not with Zemo whose on the raft and the Raft will be Thunderbolts... eh you comic people know more then me. But still that was good. Also liked how Bucky confronting that guy was handled as they gave enough to show the impact his words had but obviously not the full conversation since yeah that would take too long to show all the grief but you get it and even touching on the therapist worked. And yeah major kudos for the ending too as I really love Sam paying another visit to Bradley and talking with him about needing to make things right and then finding out he made a special wing for Isaiah and what he did in the Captain America museum saying no one will forget now. That is probably the closest that got me to crying as yeah I felt the appreciation and the respect in that scene and after so much of what happened with him was a downer nice to have a good moment with him. And yeah fun motage at the end in the boat and the mid credits scene showing Sharon is pardoned but is still the power broker and still obviously going to work the system some as yeah shows she wasn't totally swayed to fly right again and yeah leads to her causing trouble in the future. So heh sure Fone Bone will be happy about that. Honestly I think it works showing her off as duplicitious mostly because Emily VanCamp plays that so well. I watched the first half of Revenge season one (another show I really need to catch up on) and she was good in that so her getting a chance to do damage later I'm good with.

So yeah overall a good episode of a good show. This one didn't have the greatest fight scenes but the themes and character moments were spot and get me exited for the future especially with this ending with "Captain America and the Winter Soldier." Heh maybe that's why the team were teasing why there wasn't a second season pick up because now that Sam is definite Captain America they have to go with something else. So though the show did have some slow points and could of had some better jokes in the more comedy segments all the character and theme stuff was great and really did paint this in a world of greys and never cheaped out either. Kharli was meant to be someone who had good ideals who kept slipping up and ultimately falling because of them and have Sam point them out to built to a better world and again really earn that title fully and completely. I think on that level this show stuck the landing better then WandaVision as the themeing was always on point not needing to hide any of it and any open holes it had will be filled in with later work so yeah good stuff here. Can't wait for what's next for Sam and Buck and the characters here as no way is their journey over as it would go against the point of this show to have that be the end for them but guess for now this is a good point to end on since next we have to deal with Loki's shennigans and Natasha's film (yeah Yelena didn't make an appearance here contrary to some rumors) but again goo way for now to wrap things up.
 
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Frontier

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Captain America Reborn! Seeing Sam fly in their with a comic-accurate FalCap suit straight from the comics was absolutely glorious. I'm amazed how well that suit looks in live-action. And then he's swinging that shield around, busting down bad guy, like Captain America. Sam sure knows how to make his debut like it's the climax of a Superhero movie. He even got to start off fighting Batroc, a classic Cap villain ;).

Oh hey, the Wakandans rebuilt Redwing too! And they gave Sam double :).

Karli...is kind of the worst. Like, endangering and kidnapping all those people is one thing, the innocent people she's killed, claiming a soldier who fought in WW2 and was brainwashed by a terrorist organization doesn't know about causes to believe in, basically saying the guy she killed didn't matter to his best friend, and then about to shoot Sam when he was constantly trying to de-escalate the fight. Like, it is really hard for me to feel pity for her by the end :rolleyes:.

I gotta admit, I thought Walker was actually going to abandon the truck to get to Karli, but he saves the people and then teams-up with Sam and Bucky. He managed to redeem himself and prove he's not that far gone :cool:.

So, yeah, Sharon Carter is the Power Broker. Of all the indignities I've seen of the MCU's treatment of Sharon Carter, a storied, historic, and iconic member of the Captain America mythos, turning her into a villain is absolutely the worst. And she also gets away with it, get her pardon, and gets her in with the government to do her Power Broker job even further. Gah, I hate this. Can this Sharon juts be a Skrull :mad:?

(Also kind of ticked she killed Batroc off, but c'est la vie).

I can't believe Bucky and Walker stopped the rest of the Flag-Smashers by calling a SWAT team on them. Talk about mundane. And Walker may not be Steve Rogers, but he's still pretty hokey :p.

I think Sam gave the Flag-Smashers too much credit, but that was a Cap level speech to the gathered people about the struggle and how important it is to work together and do right by the people whose fates you hold in your hand and may not be as privileged as you are. I think he was kind of stretching it comparing them to Thanos, but I at least got where he was coming from :sweat:.

Just in case you thought the world would still have a bunch of Super Soldiers, Zemo's butler proves to be the hidden MVP and blows them up, Zemo finally accomplishing what he set out to do and sitting pretty comfortably in his cell at The Raft. So much for the Flag-Smashers :ack:.

Bucky finally reveals to Yori what happened to his son and finally seems at peace with himself, even if it means completely moving on. But at least he and Sam are proper buddies now :D.

I'm glad Isaiah got to see Sam as a black Captain America and give him some credit, and it was terrific of Sam to make sure Isaiah got his own wing of the Captain America museum, so everyone will now always know and remember who he is and what he did for that country :).

So the Contessa turns Walker into US Agent, which is literally just a pallete swap of Walker into his US Agent colors, but I guess I'm glad things worked out for Walker. I just hope he's up to whatever is in store for him as US Agent. Will he keep his shield with the medal :confused:?

"Captain America and the Winter Soldier" You know it :proud:.
 

Freddy

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At first, this show didn't really grap me and after the first three episodes I was getting worried. The pacing was kinda wonky and the buddy cop banter of the title duo felt really awkward and forced. But, luckily episode 4 really shaked the show and the rest was great.

Maybe this could have worked better as tighter paced two hour movie, but then again that could have meant axing or very least trimming down all the slower character moments, like basically the entirety of episode 5 or the finale's museum scene. So, in the end, let's say that the ride wasn't perfect and Wandavision was overall better, but I was left feeling satisfied.
 

Fone Bone

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The Falcon And The Winter Soldier "One World, One People"

I know some very lovely people online who are going to be very unhappy with Sharon Carter's heel-turn. What I will remind them is that as far as the Power Broker was concerned, the show never handed us any other suspects, even as red herrings. I never for once thought it was Val because she was introduced so late in the game. To have resonance, the Power Broker needed to be someone we knew from the beginning, hero OR villain. And Sharon Carter qualifies.

I think the thing that most bothers me about Sharon as a person is that she took that great personal favor Bucky gave her and essentially spat on it. Whatever she does next will come directly back on Bucky for vouching for her in the first place.

Maybe she's a Skrull? Maybe.

What do I think of Sam as Cap? He's got the rhetoric and peacemaking skills down cold. I found it very interesting that he outright stated people there had a problem with him holding the shield because he's black. What kills me is that he isn't just describing close-minded fandom. Fox News is gonna lose its freaking mind when Captain America 4 gets made. Our country does not respond well to cool things like that.

But in the end, I very much liked the statue Sam got made for Isaiah. What I like best is that Isaiah actually appreciated it.

I don't think Bucky's thing with his elderly Korean neighbor ended strongly, but in fairness I always felt that plotline was shaky and asking for trouble. It ended better and less of a mess than I predicted it would, which counts for something.

Walker's ending felt far better for the character than he deserved. I hope things are going bad for him the way working with Val says they should.

Only got a brief scene of Zemo, but it's hinted he was behind the bombing. How? How did that work? The guard saying the One World mantra always hinted he was on the rebel's side. Is it possible he just helped fake their deaths? Who was the old guy in the car? That specific thing didn't make sense and I assume we'll get the fuller picture later on.

So I look forward to Captain America 4 (which they NEED to title Captain America And The Winter Soldier). I DON'T look forward to Fox News losing its mind, but that's the trade off of doing something good and decent with the character.

Solid ending to the season, and now I assume the series. Now we're gonna make movies! We're big Hollywood actors! Yeah, we are! ****.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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T

Only got a brief scene of Zemo, but it's hinted he was behind the bombing. How? How did that work? The guard saying the One World mantra always hinted he was on the rebel's side. Is it possible he just helped fake their deaths? Who was the old guy in the car? That specific thing didn't make sense and I assume we'll get the fuller picture later on.

Oh that confused me at first as well but reading other's reviews that's actually Zemo's butler we saw in episode 3 on the personal plane Zemo was in. Obviously he's loyal to Zemo and his goals so took care of those super soldiers for him knowing of Zemo's hatred for them or Zemo likely contacted him before he was taken by the Wakandas to make sure no super soliders manage to escape. I could certainly see that happening.
 

Frontier

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I know some very lovely people online who are going to be very unhappy with Sharon Carter's heel-turn. What I will remind them is that as far as the Power Broker was concerned, the show never handed us any other suspects, even as red herrings. I never for once thought it was Val because she was introduced so late in the game. To have resonance, the Power Broker needed to be someone we knew from the beginning, hero OR villain. And Sharon Carter qualifies.

I think the thing that most bothers me about Sharon as a person is that she took that great personal favor Bucky gave her and essentially spat on it. Whatever she does next will come directly back on Bucky for vouching for her in the first place.

Maybe she's a Skrull? Maybe.
I guess with Marvel, the obvious answer is usually the right one...
I don't think Bucky's thing with his elderly Korean neighbor ended strongly, but in fairness I always felt that plotline was shaky and asking for trouble. It ended better and less of a mess than I predicted it would, which counts for something.
I think his neighbor was Japanese, actually :).
Walker's ending felt far better for the character than he deserved. I hope things are going bad for him the way working with Val says they should.
I don't think Walker was ever really a bad guy, just a normal man put into a situation he wasn't suited for, and they showed here that deep down he is a good man.

I am kind of curious how he's going to fair as US Agent.
 

Fone Bone

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Oh that confused me at first as well but reading other's reviews that's actually Zemo's butler we saw in episode 3 on the personal plane Zemo was in. Obviously he's loyal to Zemo and his goals so took care of those super soldiers for him knowing of Zemo's hatred for them or Zemo likely contacted him before he was taken by the Wakandas to make sure no super soliders manage to escape. I could certainly see that happening.
That was not at all clear in the episode itself. But to be truthful, that's fine. I don't need to understand everything to enjoy it. And the moment was probably all the more rewarding for people who DID understand it. Me being spoon-fed what was going on via a spoilery recap would have made the moment less rewarding for people who understood what was going on, and would have otherwise saw it coming due to the butler being brought up in a potential spoilery recap (that the series was kind enough not to do). Better if I'm a little lost. Do not want to deprive astute viewers of the series' awesomeness.

I think his neighbor was Japanese, actually :).
My mistake.
 
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reflection01

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So why did Sharon lead them to the only person who could make the serum?


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Freddy

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That was not at all clear in the episode itself. But to be truthful, that's fine. I don't need to understand everything to enjoy it. And the moment was probably all the more rewarding for people who DID understand it. Me being spoon-fed what was going on via a spoilery recap would have made the moment less rewarding for people who understood what was going on, and would have otherwise saw it coming due to the butler being brought up in a potential spoilery recap (that the series was kind enough not to do). Better if I'm a little lost. Do not want to deprive astute viewers of the series' awesomeness.

Maybe the butler-thing had worked better, if Zemo had a seemingly throwaway line of him being retired Sokovian military agent or the like to set-up that he has skill sets for stuff like that. I was confused for a second too (had a "oh yeah" moment once we cut to Zemo) and thought for a second that they were setting a future villain, making me think really hard elderly Marvel characters.

More fuel to the fire that Zemo will be a Norman Osborn stand-in in a future Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers movie or show, since he has traditional pulled stuns like that, while behind the bars or just off the grid.
 

Yojimbo

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Bts video of the Falcon.

Bts photo of new Captain America.

Mackie posts bts photo of Captain America.

Louis-Dreyfus reveals the cloak they used to hide her when she was moved around.

So why did Sharon lead them to the only person who could make the serum?
To tie up loose ends. Once Sam offered to help make sure she got a pardon, she made a calculated decision and cleaned house knowing once she was pardoned, she could move her operations to the U.S. and be reinstated in the CIA where she could sell government secrets and prototype weapons on the sly to the highest bidder. I suppose it only helped her plan that Zemo remained adamant there could be no more super soldiers and had his butler Oeznik kill off most of the remaining Flag Smashers. However, of course, one Flag Smasher survived: the one that Captain America dropped into the Hudson who could be used to make more serum eventually if the right scientist comes along. And of course, Bucky and U.S. Agent are still around. But overall, it seemed like only Karli knew Sharon was the Power Broker and made sure she died with her secret.
 
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Frontier

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A new legend has been born :cool:.
That's one way to avoid spoilers :p.
To tie up loose ends. Once Sam offered to help make sure she got a pardon, she made a calculated decision and cleaned house knowing once she was pardoned, she could move her operations to the U.S. and be reinstated in the CIA where she could sell government secrets and prototype weapons on the sly to the highest bidder. I suppose it only helped her plan that Zemo remained adamant there could be no more super soldiers and had his butler Oeznik kill off most of the remaining Flag Smashers. However, of course, one Flag Smasher survived: the one that Captain America dropped into the Hudson who could be used to make more serum eventually if the right scientist comes along. And of course, Bucky and U.S. Agent are still around. But overall, it seemed like only Karli knew Sharon was the Power Broker and made sure she died with her secret.
I guess Zemo's not the only planner...
 

Yojimbo

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Frontier

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Ha ha. Idk, I wouldn't say no to a Sharon Carter series that fills in the gap between her in Germany aiding Steve, Sam, and Bucky in Civil War to pre-TF&TWS in Madripoor so we have better context for her turn.
To be honest, the way they handled her basically killed her chances as a leading lady in my opinion now that she's a behind-the-scenes villain type.
 

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