"The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" News & Discussion Thread, Part 8 (Spoilers)

[JoeMabbon]

Jeez Louise, that would have been a busy season. Squeezing House of M into one episode sounds rough, but they managed to compress Emperor Doom/Stark into one ep so maybe it could have worked.

 

[the greenman]

Jeez Louise, that would have been a busy season. Squeezing House of M into one episode sounds rough, but they managed to compress Emperor Doom/Stark into one ep so maybe it could have worked.

Honestly, Season 2 felt crowded and disjointed as well. I mean they threw in all this last minute stuff with Wolverine.

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[Frontier]

Jeez Louise, that would have been a busy season. Squeezing House of M into one episode sounds rough, but they managed to compress Emperor Doom/Stark into one ep so maybe it could have worked.

Assemble also did two dystopian stories in one episode with that Thor/Doom episode and the Squadron Supreme episode.

Honestly, Season 2 felt crowded and disjointed as well. I mean they threw in all this last minute stuff with Wolverine.

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I think part of it was the creative staff changes from Yost and Fine to Man of Action for the second half of season 2.

 

[Rick Jones]

Honestly, Season 2 felt crowded and disjointed as well. I mean they threw in all this last minute stuff with Wolverine.

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They took the show from Yost and Fine, reworked the plots to their liking, then got Yost to write the scripts to these re-worked episodes. It was practically the same process as the Marvel Anime stuff, so it's understood if it feels disjointed.

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[the greenman]

Oh I know what went down. That's why I feel Yost on Season 3 would be none too different.

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[Rick Jones]

Having full control over the writing might lead to different results than just writing the dialogue.

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[brodie999]

Yeah, imagine if Yost and Fine stayed on all the way to the series finale and Nova and Sentry appeared. The writing and dialogue would've been much better. They should've turned down Man of Action's offer to take over the show. The second half of Season 2 would've been much busier too.

 

[Medinnus]

Yeah, imagine if Yost and Fine stayed on all the way to the series finale and Nova and Sentry appeared. The writing and dialogue would've been much better. They should've turned down Man of Action's offer to take over the show. The second half of Season 2 would've been much busier too.

You say that like they had a choice; Loeb was not about to give them one. That they were allowed to mitigate the worst of the Loeb/Man of Action damage was a blessing unlooked for. That said, I feel compelled to say a few words about Man of Action, a for-hire writing group composed of some very talented writers.

As a work-for-hire writing group, there are three concepts that need to be mentioned, with the caveat that I do not know the particulars of contractual arrangements (or anything else) about Man of Action in particular:

1 - Work-for-hire is work that earns the writer a paycheck. They take the direction from the guys who write the checks. Period. They operate within the political system which governs their ability to operate, creatively. It is writing by committee, and there are no incentives to be especially creative nor inventive. They write to specification. Work-for-hire is a recognition that professional writers need to feed, house, and clothe their families.

2 - Like anyone doing work for hire, they save their creative and innovative work for their own creations, so that they can have equity and control of the concepts and executions.

3 - Professional writers often develop their own characteristic style; however, writing groups often require them to write in the "house style". The work done by a group of writers means that they can take the logline/outline and flesh it out with a deeper plot and dialogue that is servicable. Iron Man sarcasm, Thor pomposity, Captain America cornball optimism - those are are points of characterization than are used in this process. But the goal is servicable, not innovative, and needs to be reconciled with the overarching directives - a reduction in complexity, focusing plots and dialogue for the 10-14 male demographics, etc etc.

A competent professional can write an episode of Super-Hero Squad just as easily as they write a Loeb-dumbed-down version of AEMH or a clever, snappy dialogue version of the Season 1 AEMH. Most of the writers which make up Man of Action are smart and clever, and their individual efforts reflect this, where the aggregate product of Man of Action does not.

 

[brodie999]

You say that like they had a choice; Loeb was not about to give them one. That they were allowed to mitigate the worst of the Loeb/Man of Action damage was a blessing unlooked for. That said, I feel compelled to say a few words about Man of Action, a for-hire writing group composed of some very talented writers.

As a work-for-hire writing group, there are three concepts that need to be mentioned, with the caveat that I do not know the particulars of contractual arrangements (or anything else) about Man of Action in particular:

1 - Work-for-hire is work that earns the writer a paycheck. They take the direction from the guys who write the checks. Period. They operate within the political system which governs their ability to operate, creatively. It is writing by committee, and there are no incentives to be especially creative nor inventive. They write to specification. Work-for-hire is a recognition that professional writers need to feed, house, and clothe their families.

2 - Like anyone doing work for hire, they save their creative and innovative work for their own creations, so that they can have equity and control of the concepts and executions.

3 - Professional writers often develop their own characteristic style; however, writing groups often require them to write in the "house style". The work done by a group of writers means that they can take the logline/outline and flesh it out with a deeper plot and dialogue that is servicable. Iron Man sarcasm, Thor pomposity, Captain America cornball optimism - those are are points of characterization than are used in this process. But the goal is servicable, not innovative, and needs to be reconciled with the overarching directives - a reduction in complexity, focusing plots and dialogue for the 10-14 male demographics, etc etc.

A competent professional can write an episode of Super-Hero Squad just as easily as they write a Loeb-dumbed-down version of AEMH or a clever, snappy dialogue version of the Season 1 AEMH. Most of the writers which make up Man of Action are smart and clever, and their individual efforts reflect this, where the aggregate product of Man of Action does not.

Yeah, I know how you feel. They should've fought against Man of Action and Jeph Loeb while trying to write Season 2 just as clever and snappy as Season 1. I'd be down for a remake of Season 2 anyway.

 

[Medinnus]

Yeah, I know how you feel. They should've fought against Man of Action and Jeph Loeb while trying to write Season 2 just as clever and snappy as Season 1. I'd be down for a remake of Season 2 anyway.

Begging the question of this being a purely theoretical argument... how could they fight?

Loeb was appointed as the VP, and had probably made no secret of his intentions for what he was going to do; in fact, the people who hired him might have told him which direction they wanted. Corporations are not a democracy; employees who disobey directives are released from employment with varying degrees of repercussion. AEMH was not a partnership - Fine and Yost had no equity, and no leverage. Loeb was the boss, period, and had all the power there. Further, we only know the results; we don't know the arguments they might have put forth in argument to accomplish what they did.

In life, when you work for a company and you have a deal-breaking disagreement, the only power you have is to walk away, which only would have made the product worse. They could have rasied a ruckus in the fan press, but all that would have done was stain their own records; future hiring decisions would include a phrase thad said "Does execellent work, but not a team player."

 

[brodie999]

Begging the question of this being a purely theoretical argument... how could they fight?

Loeb was appointed as the VP, and had probably made no secret of his intentions for what he was going to do; in fact, the people who hired him might have told him which direction they wanted. Corporations are not a democracy; employees who disobey directives are released from employment with varying degrees of repercussion. AEMH was not a partnership - Fine and Yost had no equity, and no leverage. Loeb was the boss, period, and had all the power there. Further, we only know the results; we don't know the arguments they might have put forth in argument to accomplish what they did.

In life, when you work for a company and you have a deal-breaking disagreement, the only power you have is to walk away, which only would have made the product worse. They could have rasied a ruckus in the fan press, but all that would have done was stain their own records; future hiring decisions would include a phrase thad said "Does execellent work, but not a team player."

Maybe it would've been better if it had aired back in October 2011 just like we expected it to do. After all, Jeph Loeb wrote Super Hero Squad Season 2 and IMAA Season 2 and the show runners were allowed to write their second halves the way they wanted. Why couldn't he let EMH do the same?

 

[RoyalRubble]

Here we go. Yost's story plan and brief log-lines for what might have happened in a 3rd season of Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

First, a disclaimer.

S3E01 STRANGE TALES

As Surtur releases an army of demons on Earth, the Avengers find themselves facing their worst fears... trapped within the realm of NIGHTMARE! Up against an enemy they can’t fight, the team turns to the only person who can help: Dr. Strange! #AvengersEMH10

S3E02 THE GENTLEMAN’S NAME IS MAGNETO

Magneto wages war against humanity, bringing his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants into conflict with the Avengers… but what side are Magneto’s children the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver on? #AvengersEMH10

S3E03 RECURRING KNIGHTMARE

Iron Man and Doctor Doom are pulled through time to ancient CAMELOT, finding themselves uneasy allies against Modred the Mystic. And back in the present, the Wasp’s only hope to get Iron Man back is the BLACK KNIGHT. #AvengersEMH10

S3E04 TWILIGHT

Wonder Man returns to the Avengers with an army of Fire Demons on his ionic tail… and he wants the Avengers to save THE ENCHANTRESS. Meanwhile, Thor and Balder the Brave travel to the fiery realm of Musphelheim only to be overwhelmed. #AvengersEMH10

S3E05 AN AGE UNDREAMED OF (1)

The ancient sorcerer KULAN GATH transforms the Avengers and all of New York City into a medieval versions of themselves, leaving only Dr. Strange and the Scarlet Witch to save reality as we know it. #AvengersEMH10

S3E06 RAIDERS OF THE LOST TEMPLE (2)

Freed from Gath's spell by the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, a team of Avengers leads a rebellion against New York's transformed heroes. Even with their new teammates, can the Avengers stop the world from changing forever? #AvengersEMH10

S3E07 THOR CROAKS

As Ragnarok approaches, Loki takes Thor off the battlefield. His only hope? Ant-Man and the Wasp… assuming a transformed Thor doesn’t eat them. Ribbit. #AvengersEMH10

S3E08 THE SIGN OF THE SERPENT

As Nick Fury and SHIELD deal with the resurgence of HYDRA, the Avengers race against Viper and the Serpent Society to recover the pieces of the SERPENT CROWN... but Viper doesn't realizes the evil she's about to unleash on the world. #AvengersEMH10

S3E09 WEST COAST AVENGERS

While in California on an errand for Iron Man, Hawkeye and Wonder Man consider a more permanent change of scenery... until Graviton shows up. Even with the help of Mockingbird and the mysterious TIGRA, things look bad for the WACKOS. #AvengersEMH10

S3E10 NIGHTS OF WUNDAGORE (1)

As the Maximoff twins delve into the mystery of their true parentage, the Avengers face off with the High Evolutionary and his New Men on Wundagore Mountain. But the Evolutionary only wants to save the world from a much bigger threat. #AvengersEMH10

S3E11 WITCH ON THE MOUNTAIN (2)

Something terrible has awakened inside Wundagore Mountain and it’s come for the Scarlet Witch. Chthon has returned, and now the Avengers' only hope lies in Quicksilver as he attempts to collect the pages of the DARKHOLD. #AvengersEMH10

S3E12 EVERYTHING BURNS (1)

Surtur arrives on Asgard as the Avengers face a wrathful Loki on Earth. Captain America pays his debt to Hela, while Thor faces his destiny in the form of the Midgard Serpent. #AvengersEMH10

S3E13 RAGNAROK (2)

The Twilight Sword has severed the World Tree. Odin is gone, Thor lays dying. Earth is all that’s left. The end of all things has come. #AvengersEMH10

S3E14 ENTER, THE X-MEN!

With the Avengers scattered after the arrival of Asgard on Earth, the X-Men come to Avengers Mansion looking for two fugitives from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants... Magneto’s children, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. #AvengersEMH10

S3E15 THE OLD ORDER CHANGETH

The world will always need Avengers and when the Masters of Evil strike, only Cap, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver answer the call. Plus, SHIELD isn’t too happy about a couple of "evil" mutants being on the team. #AvengersEMH10

S3E16 THE MAN CALLED NOVA

Alien monsters called the BROOD have already wiped out the Nova Corps, and now only Captain Marvel and the Avengers stand between them and Earth. Enter: The Human Rocket. #AvengersEMH10

S3E17 THE FOURTH HOST

Wakanda is invaded by a group of hyper-evolved beings called the ETERNALS! They’re preparing for the arrival of the Space Gods known as the CELESTIALS, but the Black Panther stands in their way. Wakanda Forever! #AvengersEMH10

S3E18 VICIOUS CIRCLE

The Juggernaut's on the rampage and only Thor and the Hulk can stop him! But when WOLVERINE and the X-MEN arrive to collect their old foe... SNIKT. But there are worse things in the Canadian wilderness than the Avengers or X-Men realize. #AvengersEMH10

S3E19 THE LAST AVENGER

As the Avengers battle Kang in ancient Egypt, Captain America is lost in time! From World War II fighitng alongside the Atlantean SUB-MARINER all the way to a dark future controlled by Ultron, will Cap ever find his way back home? #AvengersEMH10

S3E20 LIKE A PHOENIX FROM THE ASHES

An ancient power moves across the universe, destroying everything in its path. Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Thor, Vision and Nova watch as the Galactic Super-Powers fail to stop it. The PHOENIX FORCE is heading for Earth. #AvengersEMH10

S3E21 EVOLUTIONARY WAR (1)

Super-Humans. Mutants. Atlanteans. Inhumans. Eternals. Deviants. To save the world, the High Evolutionary will destroy them all. War has begun. #AvengersEMH10

S3E22 CONQUEST (2)

The High Evolutionary’s Gene Bomb will cleanse the world of genetic deviation. This is exactly what Ultron wants. #AvengersEMH10

S3E23 THE BEST OFFENSE

The Hulk, Doctor Strange, and the Sub-Mariner are all that stand in the way of Earth’s destruction at the hands of the Elders of the Universe… if only they could just get along. Captain Marvel and Valkyrie have their work cut out for them. #AvengersEMH10

S3E24 X-SANCTION (1)

The Phoenix Force is coming for the X-Men’s MARVEL GIRL, and the Avengers want to get her off the Earth. Standing in their way? The Uncanny X-Men, who have no intention of just handing Jean Grey over. Everything has been building to this. #AvengersEMH10

S3E25 HOUSE OF M (2)

With Magneto and Quicksilver leading the mutants in possession of the shattered Phoenix Force, the Scarlet Witch chooses sides. The Avengers and remaining X-Men are on the run from the all powerful House of M. What hope does humanity have? #AvengersEMH10

S3E26 AVENGERS WORLD

It's the Avengers and X-Men versus the fury of the Dark Phoenix! The chilling nature of the Scarlet Witch's true power is revealed as reality itself breaks. Will either team survive? #AvengersEMH10

 

[Rick Jones]

I like all the ideas but it would have been interesting to see how they all manage to work together as part of one bigger picture
I wonder if Captain Marvel is Carol or Mar-Vell.

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[RoyalRubble]

I like all the ideas but it would have been interesting to see how they all manage to work together as part of one bigger picture
I wonder if Captain Marvel is Carol or Mar-Vell.

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Yost clarified he meant Carol.

 

[Frontier]

Here we go. Yost's story plan and brief log-lines for what might have happened in a 3rd season of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. (Will edit this with more messages as Yost posts them)

First, a disclaimer.

S3E01 STRANGE TALES

S3E02 THE GENTLEMAN’S NAME IS MAGNETO

S3E03 RECURRING KNIGHTMARE

S3E04 TWILIGHT

S3E05 AN AGE UNDREAMED OF (1)

S3E06 RAIDERS OF THE LOST TEMPLE (2)

S3E07 THOR CROAKS

S3E08 THE SIGN OF THE SERPENT

S3E09 WEST COAST AVENGERS

S3E10 NIGHTS OF WUNDAGORE (1)

S3E11 WITCH ON THE MOUNTAIN (2)

S3E12 EVERYTHING BURNS (1)

S3E13 RAGNAROK (2)

S3E14 ENTER, THE X-MEN!

S3E15 THE OLD ORDER CHANGETH

S3E16 THE MAN CALLED NOVA

S3E17 THE FOURTH HOST

S3E18 VICIOUS CIRCLE

S3E19 THE LAST AVENGER

S3E20 LIKE A PHOENIX FROM THE ASHES

S3E21 EVOLUTIONARY WAR (1)

S3E22 CONQUEST (2)
S3E23 THE BEST OFFENSE

Man, this sounds like it would've been so epic .

Random thoughts:

- Sounds like the twins, Wonder Man, and maybe Scott Lang Ant-Man(?) would've joined the team. Also sounds like Wanda and Pietro become disillusioned with Magneto but don't join the team until the Kulan Gath story. And maybe Hulk would've rejoined at some point? Or he's just there when Thor fights Juggernaut.

- I'm kind of curious how much of WaTXM continuity this show would've been following up from. The Brotherhood sound like just Mutant Terrorists instead of an extension of Magneto on Genosha, so should we just assume none of that mattered for this show? The Phoenix comes after Jean again, too...

- Simon wanting to save Enchantress reminds me she charmed him into the original Masters of Evil in the comics. Would that have gone anywhere? I wonder if they would've set up a triangle with him, Wanda, and Vision too...

- Black Knight! I remembered he appeared in season 1 !

- I had honestly forgotten completely about Cap and Hela's deal. Makes sense that would've come back during the Surtur arc .

- Asgard would end up on Midgard/Earth like in the comics, probably in Broxton Oklahoma.

- The return of Hydra and an adaption of the Serpent Crown story from the tie-in comic.

- The classic Kooky Quartet of Cap, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver .

- Wakanda vs The Eternals .

- I guess they use time travel to debut Namor and have him and Cap team-up.

- Looks like the Inhumans would debut in the Evolutionary War.

- I wonder if the Defenders vs The Elders of the Universe would build up to the Infinity Stones storyline since we know they have them...

- Wanda gets the Phoenix Force and betrays the team for her father and brother to create House of M?

 

[Greg91]

Happy 10th anniversary The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes! Can't believe it's been a decade already. This show will continue to been the world to me since the day it was announced in October 2008.

The hypothetical season three sounds like it would've been busy but there are many characters and storylines I wanted to see in there like Doctor Strange, the X-Men, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and the West Coast Avengers.

Nova, more Black Knight, the Kooky Quartet and Wonder Man's return would've been awesome too. Plus the return of Graviton, the introduction of the Eternals and this show's Thor as a frog would have been quite a surprise.

Most of all, I wanted to see the Surtur saga completed. But it's all good. The show exists with 52 episodes to revisit and that's more than enough for me.

 

[Frontier]

Chris Yost on what he planned for the X-Men's roster:


Y'know, I saw this pointed out somewhere else, but it's kind of funny that we know so much about EMH season 3 now given how little we know about what Spectacular season 3 would've looked like .

 

[M.O.D.O.K.]

Lovely, lovely stuff. They surprisingly use a lot of X-Men characters and stories. I wonder if they would've been able to get away with it. I think the most promising stories there were Throg, Iron Man and Dr. Doom's team-up, Cap warping through time, Thor vs. Juggernaut, West Coast Avengers, and the Ragnarok mid-season finale.

- I'm kind of curious how much of WaTXM continuity this show would've been following up from. The Brotherhood sound like just Mutant Terrorists instead of an extension of Magneto on Genosha, so should we just assume none of that mattered for this show? The Phoenix comes after Jean again, too...

He mentioned that was the original plan, but he could always go back on that and start anew. I don't think a lot of these plans would've fit with both shows anyway.

Y'know, I saw this pointed out somewhere else, but it's kind of funny that we know so much about EMH season 3 now given how little we know about what Spectacular season 3 would've looked like .

Different showrunners have different policies and I personally don't think one is superior to the other. Besides, Weisman's been more generous about Spectacular's future than his other shows. He's revealed recently that he wanted to adapt that story where Sandman and Hydro-Man fuse into a mud monster, and he wanted to specifically include Mr. Negative in season 3's Gang War.

 

[brodie999]

Here's the description for the last 3 episodes of Season 3.

S3E24 X-Sancition:

The Phoenix Force is coming for the X-Men’s MARVEL GIRL, and the Avengers want to get her off the Earth. Standing in their way? The Uncanny X-Men, who have no intention of just handing Jean Grey over. Everything has been building to this.


S3E25 House of M:

With Magneto and Quicksilver leading the mutants in possession of the shattered Phoenix Force, the Scarlet Witch chooses sides. The Avengers and remaining X-Men are on the run from the all powerful House of M. What hope does humanity have?

S3E26 AVENGERS WORLD:

It's the Avengers and X-Men versus the fury of the Dark Phoenix! The chilling nature of the Scarlet Witch's true power is revealed as reality itself breaks. Will either team survive?

 

[Frontier]

Lovely, lovely stuff. They surprisingly use a lot of X-Men characters and stories. I wonder if they would've been able to get away with it. I think the most promising stories there were Throg, Iron Man and Dr. Doom's team-up, Cap warping through time, Thor vs. Juggernaut, West Coast Avengers, and the Ragnarok mid-season finale.

It is kind of interesting to wonder whether this show would've been hit with the embargoes as much as the shows that followed it did had it continued.