"Tangled: The Series" Talkback (Spoilers)

Latest News & Videos

Korra_Fan

Active Member
May 25, 2012
342
0
28
By cutting her hair, Rapunzel defeated Zhan Tiri the same way she defeated Gothel
Correction: she defeated Zhan Tiri the same way Eugene defeated Gothel. Eugene, all by his own choice, cut her hair in that case. I think that may be the reason the show's writers had Rapunzel do the deed here: as strongly as she was portrayed in the movie, she was still ultimately dependent on her male love interest to rescue her, and so they wanted to give her the win this time around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slai

Light Lucario

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
May 11, 2007
46,584
0
113
In a Dream World
By cutting her hair, Rapunzel defeated Zhan Tiri the same way she defeated Gothel, and she saved Cass the same way she saved Eugene.
Rapunzel didn't defeat Gothel though. Eugene was the one who cut Rapunzel's hair. Even Gothel falling out of the tower was due to Pascal causing her to trip, even though she would have died anyway. That being said, I don't think that Rapunzel's role in the movie's climax was that passive either. She wasn't just the damsel in distress. She still brought Eugene back to life with the last bit of her power from the Sundrop and her strong determination to heal Eugene's injury was the only reason he had a chance to cut her hair in the first place. They saved each other, so it wasn't really just Rapunzel in need of being rescued at the end of the movie.

Cutting her hair in this scene was more of her choice though. She was effectively willing to give up her life in order to save Eugene, but he used the broken mirror to quickly cut her hair so that Gothel couldn't keep her locked away in another tower. In this case, Rapunzel chose to cut her long hair and remove her Sundrop powers in order to defeat Zhan Tiri. It was seemingly the only way they could have brought the two stones together, but it was still more of Rapunzel's choice this time around.
 

slai

Reporter
Reporter
Aug 29, 2011
256
0
18
Saint Paul, MN
Season 3’s soundtrack is now available! I’m buying a few songs.


P.S. EDIT: I wish Disney did the same for The Lion Guard and its songs. There’s only one soundtrack released for Lion Guard, and it doesn’t include songs from the last season.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Light Lucario

SweetShop209

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2014
7,971
-23
113
www.deviantart.com

Season 3 will be added to Disney+ on April 23.
 

Korra_Fan

Active Member
May 25, 2012
342
0
28
So, Youtube user EdDaWiz actually got to do a video interview with Chris Sonnenburg, and I think that the most interesting thing that came out of it was the revelation that the original pitch for the Tangled series' story only included Cassandra (who was always planned to be Gothel's daughter), the Sundrop / Moonstone / Black Rocks mythos, the Dark Kingdom, the concept of the Brotherhood, and King Edmund (who was always planned to be Eugene's father). And that's it. Every other important character and element was designed after the series went into production...including Zhan Tiri.

According to Chris, the original plan was that Cass was going to be THE villain of the story, and that she was always aware of her true parentage and was playing the long game against Rapunzel from the moment she led her to the Black Rocks in the premiere. Thus her betrayal when taking the Moonstone wouldn't have been a full "betrayal", just the fulfillment of her master plan. The conflict then would be that she would have developed close feelings toward Rapunzel for real during all of their adventures, and so continuing onward with destroying Rapunzel and taking her destiny for herself would be more difficult than she anticipated. In the end, Rapunzel was always intended to redeem her, and she was always going to exit the series "riding off into the sunset" to find her own destiny as a hero elsewhere.

The problem was that when actually producing the show and fleshing Cass' character out, she ended up being too likable and her friendship with Rapunzel too sincere-seeming, and that meant that the planned "surprise villain" route would be incredibly alienating to the audience and make Cass appear too evil. And so they came up with the character of Zhan Tiri to be the new Big Bad of the story and to be the reason Cass takes the Moonstone and turns on Rapunzel, because now Cass doesn't remember her true parentage and Zhan Tiri digs it up from her repressed memories and uses it to manipulate her.

So, the question I have is does anyone here think this alteration was for the best? Do you think they should have stuck to their guns and gone with the original plan? Or do you think Cass as a villain / Gothel's daughter was a bad idea from the get-go and should have been scrapped entirely?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr.O and Red Arrow

Light Lucario

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
May 11, 2007
46,584
0
113
In a Dream World
Despite the mixed reactions to Cassandra's betrayal, I think their changes to the original plan was for the best. Even during season one, Rapunzel and Cassandra's friendship felt too genuine for it to be an act from the start on Cassandra's part. If anything, that could have made people more upset if Cassandra was just pretending the whole time up until they got to the Moon Stone as opposed to just being manipulated into taking it. It also might have been more difficult to make her sympathetic with that setup, even though that might have happened regardless based on what actually did happen with her arc.

I never had a problem with Cassandra being Gothel's daughter. I was mainly surprised that the popular fan theory actually turned out to be right and it did further explain Cassandra's motivation. It's pretty cool that they always planned for Cassandra to be Gothel's biological daughter and that they were going to introduce Eugene's father. Although, knowing their original plan for Cassandra does put the whole taking Rapunzel to the black rocks in a different light. I'm pretty sure that there were theories about Cassandra being the real villain after the premiere for that same reason.

While I don't think that Cassandra's villain arc was perfect as it was, I also didn't have a lot of major problems with it. It isn't a highlight of the series, but it isn't terrible either. It works generally fine for me. I think that having Cassandra being manipulated into becoming a villain was a better plan than making her a villain from the start. They must have changed their plans pretty early on in the production of the series considering that they first established Zhan Tiri during the first season's mid-finale.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr.O and Red Arrow

Korra_Fan

Active Member
May 25, 2012
342
0
28
^ Technically, it's part 4 of a series of videos. Part 3 is where they started talking about Cass.

They must have changed their plans pretty early on in the production of the series considering that they first established Zhan Tiri during the first season's mid-finale.
According to Chris, yes, they did. It was around the point of writing "Challenge of the Brave" (the first episode where Rapunzel and Cassandra clash in some way) that they made the decision. So Zhan Tiri was actually the last major villain to be planned for the series, as both Cass and King Edmund + the Brotherhood were there from its creation, and Varian's turn to evil was planned from his creation in "What the Hair?", three whole episodes before "Challenge of the Brave".

Also, Zhan Tiri was always going to be female; being addressed as male was always misdirection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SweetShop209

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Jan 19, 2004
28,681
-5
113
44
Framingham, MA
So, the question I have is does anyone here think this alteration was for the best? Do you think they should have stuck to their guns and gone with the original plan? Or do you think Cass as a villain / Gothel's daughter was a bad idea from the get-go and should have been scrapped entirely?
I think the idea of Cass as a villain should have been scrapped entirely.
 

ShadowBeast

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2013
6,398
0
113
Elizabeth,NJ
I think the change of Cassandra knowing who her mother was, to not knowing was a better idea since it feels like Rapunzel would've known or at least know about her when she was living in the tower since Cassandra and her mother would've had a better relationship then.
I wonder what else they had planned that was never made?

Also, Zhan Tiri was always going to be female; being addressed as male was always misdirection.
I wish they had given us more info on Zhan Tiri's history though since the little flashback of Zhan Tiri's banishment just wasn't good enough, and was kind of weak seeing her using a boomerang as a weapon (it reminds me of Jeff Dunham's stand-up of Walter's wife throwing boomerangs at him), and yet it was stated she was too powerful for even Lord Demanitus to permanently deal with her. It also would've been better if she had the sharp teeth like it was implied she had since the mouth she had kind of took away from her being menacing. We also never got confirmation on whether she was a demon from the beginning or a human turned demon. We saw her demon-figure form when Sugracha tried to free her and that form was seen throughout the series before she was officially seen as such. So it did exist before she got her hands on the SunDrop and MoonStone.
 

Mr.O

Active Member
Sep 21, 2016
463
0
43
24
Wow! This was very interesting.
So, the question I have is does anyone here think this alteration was for the best? Do you think they should have stuck to their guns and gone with the original plan? Or do you think Cass as a villain / Gothel's daughter was a bad idea from the get-go and should have been scrapped entirely?
While I think that the original idea would've been an interesting concept, and actually a pretty smart scheme on Cassandra's part, I have to agree that changing it was for the better. The writers invested too much into her and Rapunzel's relationship. If it were all fake that would've made Cassandra far too evil, even if she started to feel guilty. It would just be someone else playing the long game emotionally manipulating Rapunzel for their own petty desires. And that would make Cass' actions unforgivable for tons of viewers I'm sure. While I don't like the betrayal now, I was initially on board with it until the second to last episode. I do think that Cassandra being evil from the start would've put an interesting twist on certain episodes, and better explain why she was so willing to murder her friends and destroy Corona. And give her a better reason to worship and long for Gothel so much, when she very well knew that Gothel was an abusive criminal.

All in all, I wouldn't mind Cassandra being Gothel's daughter and even being a villain if it were executed better. Scale down on the rampaging, have Cass take the moonstone so she can save the day for a change, etc... As things are now, I'd rather her not be a villain at all, but if done better, it would've been really cool. What's your opinion on this, @Korra_Fan ?

I agree with @ShadowBeast. Zhan Tiri being the last villain added sort of shows with the lack of clarity in her big flashback moment during the finale. Although, they did have more than enough time to flesh her out. I think I would prefer if that flashback never occurred actually. Zhan Tiri served her role excellently seeing how this wasn't her story, but Cass' and Rapunzel's. She had the proper amount of mystery and menace without that little flashback, IMO.
 

Korra_Fan

Active Member
May 25, 2012
342
0
28
I think the idea of Cass as a villain should have been scrapped entirely.
As things are now, I'd rather her not be a villain at all, but if done better, it would've been really cool. What's your opinion on this, @Korra_Fan ?
I actually think that Cass should have been an antagonist, but not a villain. There was no way to avoid having her betray Rapunzel and take the Moonstone since that was way too integral to her character from its very design - the smallest things like her lady-in-waiting dress being blue were creative choices to hint at her ultimate role as Rapunzel's opposite number that she'd have to fight against, so scrapping that would leave her utterly without a meaningful purpose beyond being Rapunzel's female sidekick (the very thing Cass did not want to be). But with that said, I think her completely falling for Zhan Tiri's manipulations and serving her was a mistake. Cass should have become more like an anti-hero, someone who also fought to defeat Zhan Tiri but treated doing so as a competition with Rapunzel rather than working together with her, and who uses more ruthless and unscrupulous methods. That honestly would have made their conflict a lot more intriguing.
 

Spotlight

Staff online

Who's on Discord?

Latest profile posts

Happy Birthday to the great Akira Toriyama!
Today, variety in my country's Cartoon Network's schedule has died.
I'm Planning to make a New Qubo schedule With Several New and Returning Shows (With one of them being Jacob Two-Two), No Paid Programming and the Return of the 4 hour Marathons.
Today marks the 10th Year Anniversary of Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated and the 7th Year Anniversary of its series finale. It ended up becoming my favorite adaptation of the Scooby-Doo Franchise and found out about Lewis Black by name (I had heard his voice in some earlier shows).
Happy birthday to Akira Toriyama. My moniker here should make it clear that I am a fan of the DB Franchise.