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TheVileOne

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One thing that has never been done in Star Trek is a multi-part crossover that begins on one series and ends on another. They had plenty of opportunities during the run of Deep Space Nine, but nothing ever panned out.
Arguably, the Maquis was a storyline that went across Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager. Maybe not a multi-part crossover, but it was a subplot that went across three shows with multiple parts.

Kurtzman has overall done an abysmal job heading up Star Trek, Picard was awful, but Discovery did show signs of improvement in Season 2. I will definitely give Strange New Worlds a look and hopefully it's a show that actually feels like Star Trek again. Anson Mount as Pike could potentially save this franchise. Plus Rebecca Romijn as No. 1 and Ethan Peck as Spock.
 

the greenman

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the point of no return
Arguably, the Maquis was a storyline that went across Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager. Maybe not a multi-part crossover, but it was a subplot that went across three shows with multiple parts.

Kurtzman has overall done an abysmal job heading up Star Trek, Picard was awful, but Discovery did show signs of improvement in Season 2. I will definitely give Strange New Worlds a look and hopefully it's a show that actually feels like Star Trek again. Anson Mount as Pike could potentially save this franchise. Plus Rebecca Romijn as No. 1 and Ethan Peck as Spock.
Can the Maquis be called a subplot? Though they did have a kinda origin in TNG and finality in Voyager.

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AdrenalineRush1996

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I don't know what you're talking about. Picard is amazing. It's everything I ever wanted in a Star Trek series since Deep Space Nine went off the air. I had literally been waiting 20 years for it.
I do kind of get what The Vile One has said about Kurtzman, given that his tenure as the creative force of the franchise has divided fans since I do feel like he's much better when he's with Orci than by himself but that's just me.
 

TheVileOne

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I do kind of get what The Vile One has said about Kurtzman, given that his tenure as the creative force of the franchise has divided fans since I do feel like he's much better when he's with Orci than by himself but that's just me.
Who can argue with a track record like the Michael Bay Transformers movie, Star Trek Into Darkness, and The Amazing Spider-Man 2? :)

Also, I would say The Maquis counts as a serialized subplot for Star Trek. The Maquis was never really the central plot of any of the three shows, but it was a recurring one that started in TNG, carried on in DS9, and basically concluded in DS9 and Voyager.

Here's a perfect example of why the writing in Star Trek Picard is pure unadulterated garbage:


Romulans hate synthetics, don't study synthetics, cybnernetics, only have basic computer functions, no AI, hate AI, loathe AI, fear AI, and all things associated with it. And they always did for centuries apparently...except when they didn't...in TNG and Voyager.
 

the greenman

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the point of no return
One of the major problems in Hollywood today is a lack of true geek filmmakers. I say that obviously with love. I know there are several out there. However, their attention to the fandom usually ends up tested in a bad way, ultimately results in them being outed as not all that big of fans at all. I may start a separate thread on this to get some more clarity so as not to derail the thread.

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Freddy

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I do kind of get what The Vile One has said about Kurtzman, given that his tenure as the creative force of the franchise has divided fans since I do feel like he's much better when he's with Orci than by himself but that's just me.
I personally would say thay Kurtzman's work usually (haven't seen Picard, so can't judge) is garbage even with Orci, who is equally terrible writer. Yet they both keeping failing upwards, for some reason.
 
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TheVileOne

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I personally would say thay Kurtzman's work usually (haven't seen Picard, so can't judge) is garbage even with Orci, who is equally terrible writer. Yet they both keeping failing upwards, for some reason.
Kurtzman also co-wrote and directed this masterpiece.


Apparently makes you qualified enough to head up the Star Trek TV franchise.

I'm more annoyed about the Romulan stuff because Picard is literally the continuation of Next Generation. And watching Picard, it feels like no one ever actually paid attention or watched any of Next Generation.

The movies I can kind of forgive because they are movies. They are basically resets. New timelines. New rules. Plus bigger budgets. I can overlook certain things that don't always line up and connect. You can't make new films with high budgets 1:1 translations of the original series. Even when the series made the jump to films everything looked different and unique because they had real money and production values to work with this time, so they could go crazier and more experimental. So yeah, Klingons look different because they can actually afford makeup this time.

What I don't like about the new material is they generally sacrifice character development, plot, and substance for cool looking visuals, curse words, or just general nonsense.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Who can argue with a track record like the Michael Bay Transformers movie, Star Trek Into Darkness, and The Amazing Spider-Man 2? :)

Also, I would say The Maquis counts as a serialized subplot for Star Trek. The Maquis was never really the central plot of any of the three shows, but it was a recurring one that started in TNG, carried on in DS9, and basically concluded in DS9 and Voyager.

Here's a perfect example of why the writing in Star Trek Picard is pure unadulterated garbage:


Romulans hate synthetics, don't study synthetics, cybnernetics, only have basic computer functions, no AI, hate AI, loathe AI, fear AI, and all things associated with it. And they always did for centuries apparently...except when they didn't...in TNG and Voyager.
I don't get how you confuse sloppy continuity for pure unadulterated garbage, but I will say this: The Romulans are a lot more interesting as AI-phobes than they were in that lousy Voyager episode. I'm not advocating ignoring continuity. But don't act like the original continuity's take was better. It wasn't. Frankly I think Star Trek: Picard gets the emotional beats of the evolution of Jean-Luc Picard perfectly which is the thing that actually matters. I do not demand the story be 100% perfectly consistent with the entirety of Star Trek. 25 years later, that's an unreasonable ask. As long as we are seeing Jean-Luc in a new and interesting light, it doesn't bother me too much.

If Picard were worse than Voyager, I'd be mad. But Picard is amazing and Voyager sucked, so I don't care.

I should also point out that the original five Star Trek series were filled with continuity mistakes over and over again, usually involving the backstory of Captain Kirk and Chief O'Brien. But Data's abilities and limitations were also entirely inconsistent from episode to episode, and Lore's entire backstory in his very first episode is nothing but one giant long continuity mistake. Don't act like Picard is messing with a perfectly constructed continuity. Gene Roddernberry and Rick Berman was no Carlton Cuses.
 
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TheVileOne

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I don't get how you confuse sloppy continuity for pure unadulterated garbage, but I will say this: The Romulans are a lot more interesting as AI-phobes than they were in that lousy Voyager episode. I'm not advocating ignoring continuity. But don't act like the original continuity's take was better. It wasn't. Frankly I think Star Trek: Picard gets the emotional beats of the evolution of Jean-Luc Picard perfectly which is the thing that actually matters. I do not demand the story be 100% perfectly consistent with the entirety of Star Trek. 25 years later, that's an unreasonable ask. As long as we are seeing Jean-Luc in a new and interesting light, it doesn't bother me too much.
They created a programmable AI Spock in Next Generation. Clearly Romulans do not fear AI, cybernetics, synthetics, or the study of such.

You can't set up a future that's post scarcity where the poor no longer exist, the future is about bettering yourself and enriching yourself, and then just toss everything out without proper context and explanation which Picard never provides.

I should also point out that the original five Star Trek series were filled with continuity mistakes over and over again, usually involving the backstory of Captain Kirk and Chief O'Brien. But Data's abilities and limitations were also entirely inconsistent from episode to episode, and Lore's entire backstory in his very first episode is nothing but one giant long continuity mistake. Don't act like Picard is messing with a perfectly constructed continuity. Gene Roddernberry and Rick Berman was no Carlton Cuses.
Continuity adjustments were not as bad as this.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
While I don't find it very useful to argue whether or not Picard's sloppy continuity is worse than TOS or Next Gen's I do want to address this.
You can't set up a future that's post scarcity where the poor no longer exist, the future is about bettering yourself and enriching yourself, and then just toss everything out without proper context and explanation which Picard never provides.
One of the biggest problems I had with Star Trek (particularly the 24th Century stuff) is that real-life problems didn't seem to exist, which is not realistic. I cannot believe in a better future for humanity if none of it is credible. What Star Trek: Picard says to me is that the humans we've witnessed in Starfleet before this are privileged and bit isolated from the experiences of everyone else, which makes sense, because Starfleet is supposed to be the best of the best. The reason I approve of this idea is that Picard, Riker, and Troi are exactly as ethical and virtuous as I remember. They aren't retconning or worsening characters we've already known, (outside of perhaps Seven Of Nine, whose newfound ruthlessness is actually understandable.)

Sisko said it himself: It is easy to be a saint in paradise.

I understand there is controversy attached to some of these storytelling decisions, but calling the show unadulterated garbage for making them are the words of someone who doesn't really understand what unadulterated garbage is.
 

khuddle

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" Anson Mount as Pike could potentially save this franchise. Plus Rebecca Romijn as No. 1 and Ethan Peck as Spock."

That's a tremendously strong cast that as a Trek fan I'm excited about. Kurtzman doesn't fill me with much confidence though.
 

the greenman

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the point of no return
While I don't find it very useful to argue whether or not Picard's sloppy continuity is worse than TOS or Next Gen's I do want to address this.
One of the biggest problems I had with Star Trek (particularly the 24th Century stuff) is that real-life problems didn't seem to exist, which is not realistic. I cannot believe in a better future for humanity if none of it is credible. What Star Trek: Picard says to me is that the humans we've witnessed in Starfleet before this are privileged and bit isolated from the experiences of everyone else, which makes sense, because Starfleet is supposed to be the best of the best. The reason I approve of this idea is that Picard, Riker, and Troi are exactly as ethical and virtuous as I remember. They aren't retconning or worsening characters we've already known, (outside of perhaps Seven Of Nine, whose newfound ruthlessness is actually understandable.)

Sisko said it himself: It is easy to be a saint in paradise.

I understand there is controversy attached to some of these storytelling decisions, but calling the show unadulterated garbage for making them are the words of someone who doesn't really understand what unadulterated garbage is.
Star Trek often proved they had real world drama, but that was often expressed through the characters. Captain Picard has always had to deal with the PTSD of becoming Borg, though I think they explored Sarek's "Dementia" (via captain Picard) a little better.

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TheVileOne

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While I don't find it very useful to argue whether or not Picard's sloppy continuity is worse than TOS or Next Gen's I do want to address this.
One of the biggest problems I had with Star Trek (particularly the 24th Century stuff) is that real-life problems didn't seem to exist, which is not realistic. I cannot believe in a better future for humanity if none of it is credible. What Star Trek: Picard says to me is that the humans we've witnessed in Starfleet before this are privileged and bit isolated from the experiences of everyone else, which makes sense, because Starfleet is supposed to be the best of the best. The reason I approve of this idea is that Picard, Riker, and Troi are exactly as ethical and virtuous as I remember. They aren't retconning or worsening characters we've already known, (outside of perhaps Seven Of Nine, whose newfound ruthlessness is actually understandable.)

Sisko said it himself: It is easy to be a saint in paradise.

I understand there is controversy attached to some of these storytelling decisions, but calling the show unadulterated garbage for making them are the words of someone who doesn't really understand what unadulterated garbage is.
I stand by what I said and don't take it back. To say what was depicted in past films and shows is not credible is a misnomer, since there are multiple examples establishing as such. The Federation and Starfleet not getting paid or not having money was established before TNG debuted on TV.

Secondly, that's not the only reason its garbage. It's also garbage for sacrificing meaningful substance in favor of superfluous action or making things "look cool." Discovery is guilty of this as well. It's the Michael Bay approach to Star Trek.

The very existence of replication technology pretty much means the elimination of world hunger or famine. And you aren't charged for getting a replicator. It's clear if you want to work and have a trade, you are allowed to do so.
 

Mostezli

Not 4 Everyone & That's OK
May 28, 2014
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The made for tv stuff they're doing with Star Trek these days feels more appropriate for Star Wars and vice-versa.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Secondly, that's not the only reason its garbage. It's also garbage for sacrificing meaningful substance in favor of superfluous action or making things "look cool." Discovery is guilty of this as well. It's the Michael Bay approach to Star Trek.
Really? Star Trek: Picard is notorious for being too "talky" from certain fans. That's actually why I like it. Discovery is as you say, but Picard is neat because it's quieter and deals with character themes instead of action. It's a drama rather than an action show.
 

Mostezli

Not 4 Everyone & That's OK
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That is correct. I would be curious if the Nick cartoon will be more dramatic then this show, simply because it be less actively comedic than this show aimed at adults, unless Lower Decks ends up like Final Space, balancing out silly and serious moments.

That was from last year. You got the head writers of Trollhunters & Ninjago developing the Nick Trek.
 
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Mandouga

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You realize, TheVileOne, that this is a parody video created as some kind of personal comentary on the uploader's part (or on the part of whoever actually created it), right?

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but what exactly are you trying to get at?
 

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