"Sony's Spider-Man Universe" Movie News & Discussion (Spoilers), Part 2

[RoyalRubble]

Marc Guggenheim hired to write the script for a movie featuring Jackpot.

 

[Frontier]

Marc Guggenheim hired to write the script for a movie featuring Jackpot.

Yeah, that's...not reassuring .

 

[TargetmasterJoe]

Marc Guggenheim hired to write the script for a movie featuring Jackpot.

Hmmm.

How do I put this? Oh, I know!

 

[the greenman]

Yeah, when I compare FOX's ideas of spinoffs and Sony's I'm not sure who's worse.

FOX:
Beast
Dr. Doom
Gambit
Kitty Pryde
Silver Surfer
X-Men vs. Fantastic Four

SONY:
Silk
Kraven
Mysterio
Black Cat
Silver Sable
Aunt May
Nightwatch
The Sinister Six


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[Yojimbo]

I got your answer.

 

[RoyalRubble]

Guggenheim comments on writing the "Jackpot" movie.

 

[Rick Jones]

I think that Fox had some marquee names to play with, if they could ever make it that far, while Sony is playing desperate and trying to give a movie to any character who breathe the same breath as Peter Parker in a Spider-Man comic.

That's the difference for me. Up until 2015, I actually wanted to see Fox doing more with their Marvel properties but they were hesitant to do anything until they were forced to (e.g., producing Deadpool after the test leak, rushing Fantastic because the rights would lapse). Sony, on the other hand, only had Ghost Rider and characters who exist to make the worlds of those two characters better.

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[Mostezli]

I think that Fox had some marquee names to play with, if they could ever make it that far, while Sony is playing desperate and trying to give a movie to any character who breathe the same breath as Peter Parker in a Spider-Man comic.

That's the difference for me. Up until 2015, I actually wanted to see Fox doing more with their Marvel properties but they were hesitant to do anything until they were forced to (e.g., producing Deadpool after the test leak, rushing Fantastic because the rights would lapse). Sony, on the other hand, only had Ghost Rider and characters who exist to make the worlds of those two characters better.

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Fox clearly had some other looming concerns beyond superhero film production. What we did get became more expansive and complex than just the sequel converges to a big crossover. Their "endgame" was done and over with back in 2014. They had since then simultaneous franchises situated at different timelines/periods and they finally hopped on the television landscape with shows operating on polar opposite comprehension.
F4 unfortunately severed another similar approach, though possibly even crazier given the whole multi-dimensional angle.

It sucks that Sony lost Valiant because that's one of if not the strongest universe to make an interconnected web out of. With Spider-Man, they seem to be doing what people wanted out of Spider-Man for so long given his own neighborhood is so vast and so complicated as Into the Spider-Verse can attest to. They much like any studio had all these spinoff plans, but could only fulfill them once the MCU got to have Spider-Man go on all these adventures with and without their creative involvement. So, Spider-Man and whomever else the MCU gets to directly play with is there.

From the Spidey-less movies put out thus far, it seems like an innocuous better realized "Dark Universe".
Venom assumes the role of Jekyll & Hyde in a bromantic action comedy thriller.
Morbius is well pretty much Bruce Timm's Langstrom Batman.
I'd imagine any of the actual hero types would still factor into this theme.
Madame Webb I'm guessing is to establish the lineage of Spider-women to come.

 

[TargetmasterJoe]

From the Spidey-less movies put out thus far, it seems like an innocuous better realized "Dark Universe".
Venom assumes the role of Jekyll & Hyde in a bromantic action comedy thriller.
Morbius is well pretty much Bruce Timm's Langstrom Batman.
I'd imagine any of the actual hero types would still factor into this theme.
Madame Webb I'm guessing is to establish the lineage of Spider-Women to come.

The thing is we don't know if that "innocuously better realized Dark Universe" angle was on purpose or by accident. Venom wound up working because while critics lambasted its schlocky nature, audiences saw it just to laugh at the schlock.

We also don't know if Venom's success can be replicated with Morbius, since the titular character doesn't have nearly as much recognition as Venom does.

What would even happen if that and Venom: LTBC turn out to be bombs? Would Marvel Studios end up making their own versions of Venom and Morbius?

 

[Mostezli]

The thing is we don't know if that "innocuously better realized Dark Universe" angle was on purpose or by accident. Venom wound up working because while critics lambasted its schlocky nature, audiences saw it just to laugh at the schlock.

We also don't know if Venom's success can be replicated with Morbius, since the titular character doesn't have nearly as much recognition as Venom does.

What would even happen if that and Venom: LTBC turn out to be bombs? Would Marvel Studios end up making their own versions of Venom and Morbius?

Venom has the director known for schlock with writers who worked on the latest Jumanji installments.

To clarify on "innocuous better realized Dark Universe" is that Universal set out to turn their monsters into superheroes and do the whole shared universe thing the superhero way. Sony actually owns those superhero monsters.
Instead of another misguided TASM2/Dark Universe all Sony has done is make a Venom movie that's evocative of what Venom is.

If those movies turn out to be bombs, I'd imagine they'd end the Spider-Man deal with Marvel Studios and reboot again with even cheaper movies; but keep the Into the Spider-Verse stuff since they don't affect anything and are safe enough to neither be a risk or a sure-fire hit.

 

[the greenman]

While Spider-man does indeed have a deep universe, just like FOX had it with X-Men and Fantastic Four. The problem is they either spent years ignoring their outlier characters or shoveled them in at the same time.

For instance will Flash Thompson become Venom? Have they attempted any feasible idea of linking that? Probably not. They're probably not even allowed. I think that's what kept FOX and Sony back, besides their own ignorance all what what they had.

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[Mostezli]

For instance will Flash Thompson become Venom? Have they attempted any feasible idea of linking that? Probably not. They're probably not even allowed. I think that's what kept FOX and Sony back, besides their own ignorance of what what they had.

Isn't Flash Thompson Venom something you do further along the line?
Other studios took a decade or so before we got to legacy characters.
Also, the Flash Thompson we do have is...ummm

 

[the greenman]

Yes. However, so was Carnage. Venom came around '88 Carnage came in early 90s.

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[Yojimbo]

Yes. However, so was Carnage. Venom came around '88 Carnage came in early 90s.

Eh... we're talking 8 years difference vs. 27 years... Shrug.

 

[the greenman]

Eh... we're talking 8 years difference vs. 27 years... Shrug.

Truth, but I still see the idea they want to pump out the Venom-verse as soon as possible. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if they recast Flash anyways.

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[Neo Ultra Mike]

The thing is we don't know if that "innocuously better realized Dark Universe" angle was on purpose or by accident. Venom wound up working because while critics lambasted its schlocky nature, audiences saw it just to laugh at the schlock.

That and Venom is a ridiculously popular character people really do want to see on the big screen and if given some sembalance even without the nuance the character properly deserves, apparently will go and support that version in droves. The thing is the Universal monsters right now don't have that level of popularity so if you wanted them to rise to that level you'd actually need to make a good movie that invests people which clearly was not the case.

What would even happen if that and Venom: LTBC turn out to be bombs? Would Marvel Studios end up making their own versions of Venom and Morbius?

Well I assume if those movies gigantically bombed Sony would still try again with other characters and just put it in a different universe. And honestly even if somehow Marvel go the rights to all the Spider Man characters, it would be awhile before you saw either Venom or Morbius. Due to Venom's popularity I would see him going into the universe eventually and at first I was going to say "Morbius isn't really popular anymore or has anything that unique to bring so Marvel wouldn't bother" but then thought they might eventually bring him as an enemy for Blade to fight. But yeah Sony would have to strike out a lot more and be bought by Disney for Marvel to fully have those titles thus why the deal exists in the first place for Sony and Disney in regards to Spidey.

While Spider-man does indeed have a deep universe, just like FOX had it with X-Men and Fantastic Four. The problem is they either spent years ignoring their outlier characters or shoveled them in at the same time.

Speaking of that IMHO the only one of these who has a really deep universe that has the potential of having the near potential limitless amount of films as the regular MCU is X-Men because X-Men actually bothered to give full stories and backgrounds to so many of it's cast of characters without having to relate them to such a primary source. That is NOT the case for either Fantastic Four or Spider Man who need their primary lead in most of their stories to function properly. Yeah there are off shoots but it's not nearly as common with X-Men and honestly the idea of a cinematic universe with Spider Man only characters is ridiculous and only being done because those are the ones Sony has to work with. But only so many of them even work. Like I can buy a Venom movie working without Spider Man but I don't see anyone being sold on Morbius or Jackpot or Aunt May or all of these other ideas Sony keeps pitching for whatever reasons.

Truth, but I still see the idea they want to pump out the Venom-verse as soon as possible. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if they recast Flash anyways.

With a MCU Spider Man 3 being secured (that will no doubt secure regular Spidey in the MCU for the long haul) yeah they aren't going to rotate and change out any of those characters to be in a Sony related film especially with Sony trying to work WITH the MCU if Morbius is any indication. So yeah they aren't going to recast Flash unless Tony Revolori does something to really damage the relationship he has with Sony and Marvel which I realllllllllllllly doubt. Not to mention that yeah we're far away from doing anything Agent Venom. If "Let There Be Carnage" is a success there's still plenty of material to draw from for a third Venom movie and spinoffs from that which wouldn't involve Brock at all.

 

[TargetmasterJoe]

If those movies turn out to be bombs, I'd imagine they'd end the Spider-Man deal with Marvel Studios and reboot again with even cheaper movies

My immediate reaction:

Gah, why does Sony have to be so hard to like?

I'd calm down about Morbius and Venom: LTBC if Sony had someone from Marvel Studios keeping things from veering into subpar territory...which I guess is why they wanted Kevin Feige as a producer, but for that to happen, Disney will be wanting extra money?

Blasted corporations...

 

[Mostezli]

My immediate reaction:
View attachment 282239

Gah, why does Sony have to be so hard to like?

I'd calm down about Morbius and Venom: LTBC if Sony had someone from Marvel Studios keeping things from veering into subpar territory...which I guess is why they wanted Kevin Feige as a producer, but for that to happen, Disney will be wanting extra money?

Blasted corporations...

If all they get out of Spider-Man is the "Home" series with what every 2 or 3 years, yes, that's sizable gross money, but not nearly as much gross profit to keep that collaboration going, especially with Sony no longer owning the merchandising rights. Studios, including Sony, proved you can make comic movies and blockbusters for way less (including the advertising budget) and profit far more.

Kevin Feige having to focus on more movies that aren't under Disney
means less attention given to all the other new responsibilities he has AND further delay the other Marvel IP's.
If either side severs the Sony/Disney deal, someone should make Chris McKenna an offer he can't refuse since he's clearly the brains to franchise success (Spider-Man / Jumanji). Also, since Deadpool is on indefinite hold (apparently not within the 5 year plan), I would also get those writers on board.

 

[RoyalRubble]

David Koepp talks about his Spider-Man movie plans that never materialized.

 

[Frontier]

David Koepp talks about his Spider-Man movie plans that never materialized.

Looks like he had a similar approach in mind to the Webb movies...