Rejected DC Comics Designs and Show Pitches

[Yojimbo]

I thought WB approached Timm for LOSH but he turned it down (another team show, only this time back on Kids WB) and suggested Tucker as showrunner?

Not sure if I read that somewhere or Tucker casually mentioned it in an interview.

Not sure about that. What else I have down is from the 2020 FanDome, Tucker said, "It was designed as a Superman-centric project to kind of tap onto the, um, uh, Superman Returns movie. That's what it started out as then it kind of evolved into its own thing...Oh, no, they came to me. I was coming off of Justice League Unlimited, the last season of that, and, um, originally the show was supposed to be for Cartoon Network and so we did a whole different pitch for them. And then I guess on a Friday, they said "no." And then on a Monday, Kids WB! which was, uh, around said, "Yeah, sure, we'd like a Superman show." So that's how we got on there. But that meant I had to completely change the pitch in a week. To suit them. It was a little older skewing originally and then for them, y'know, we had to young it up...Then second season, we went back to more of what I originally envisioned."

EDIT: It was Batman: The Brave and The Bold you were thinking of, @Pfeiffer-Pfan.
"I later found out that Bruce Timm himself recommended me for the gig after passing on it himself."

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

EDIT: It was Batman: The Brave and The Bold you were thinking of, @Pfeiffer-Pfan.
"I later found out that Bruce Timm himself recommended me for the gig after passing on it himself."

Thanks, Yojimbo. I knew I heard about Timm suggesting Tucker for something. I wonder just how different the show would have been under Timm's guidance?

Cool that both producers are now properly working together again on a new Batman cartoon after all these years (We hope!).

 

[Yojimbo]

I wonder just how different the show would have been under Timm's guidance?

Safe to say there would have been more mullets.

 

[b.t.]

I thought WB approached Timm for LOSH but he turned it down (another team show, only this time back on Kids WB)

Other way around. We got word that KidsWB was interested in doing a DC Action show for kids, so I pitched LOSH to them as “Star Trek With Teenage Superheroes” but they didn’t bite. I also pitched Kamandi at the same time, which surprisingly, they were a bit more intrigued by. But they ultimately passed on that too.

As for Robin and Catwoman:

I don’t remember doing much of anything myself on the Robin thing. Glen Murakami did some cool Robin sketches, but I don’t recall if he (or anyone else) ever really came up with a concept for what the show would actually be. I seem to think his sketches looked younger than the BTAS Robin, more like what our Tim Drake Robin for TNBA ended up looking like.

My idea for Catwoman was sorta like “Modesty Blaise Versus James Bond” slathered with Hitchcock Sauce. Selina would be up to her usual cat burglar hijinks but in a stylish and swanky 1950s-ish European setting. She’d have a recurring love/hate thing going with a dashing Interpol agent (think Cary Grant in NOTORIOUS but not as dark) — they’d swing from being adversaries to reluctant allies and back again.

Brave and Bold: Sam Register invited me to lunch, asked if I’d be interested in doing a Batman show aimed directly at younger kids. I said I personally wasn’t, but that I thought a Batman show for a younger audience was a good idea in theory. I suggested that it would make sense to really go for it — don’t just do “BTAS Lite” or “BTAS For Kids”, do something radically different than BTAS, to the point that even the toys would instantly look much different on the shelves at Target.

While I liked Jeff Matsuda’s designs for THE BATMAN a lot, I thought the style of the new show should be pushed even further away from the BTAS paradigm. Put Batman in gray and blue, like Adam West or the Dick Sprang comics. Sam was digging the general idea and then it hit me — “You know who’d be the perfect guy for this: James Tucker.” And of course I was right

 

[Yojimbo]

Other way around. We got word that KidsWB was interested in doing a DC Action show for kids, so I pitched LOSH to them as “Star Trek With Teenage Superheroes” but they didn’t bite. I also pitched Kamandi at the same time, which surprisingly, they were a bit more intrigued by. But they ultimately passed on that too.

That sounds so perplexing and contradicting because I recall you said in a Comicology interview for the Kamandi pitch, they wanted strong female character but you didn't want to tamper with Kirby's work and create a whole new character. Yet, a Legion show would have several strong female leads in it...

I seem to think his sketches looked younger than the BTAS Robin, more like what our Tim Drake Robin for TNBA ended up looking like.

Yes, they were of a younger Robin. Seen in in Chip Kidd's Batman Animated book. I guess the idea was a BTAS prequel when Dick was first starting out as Robin?

click for full image.

My idea for Catwoman was sorta like “Modesty Blaise Versus James Bond” slathered with Hitchcock Sauce. Selina would be up to her usual cat burglar hijinks but in a stylish and swanky 1950s-ish European setting. She’d have a recurring love/hate thing going with a dashing Interpol agent (think Cary Grant in NOTORIOUS but not as dark) — they’d swing from being adversaries to reluctant allies and back again.

Great Hitchcock movie. Man, this would have been a really entertaining show.

 

[Frontier]

I respect how many people wanted to get a Legion cartoon out there .

That sounds so perplexing and contradicting because I recall you said in a Comicology interview for the Kamandi pitch, they wanted strong female character but you didn't want to tamper with Kirby's work and create a whole new character. Yet, a Legion show would have several strong female leads in it...

I mean, season 2 of the actual Legion cartoon got hit hard with this where they reduced the screentime for a lot of the female characters (Saturn Girl was in a coma for most of the season). I think Phantom Girl appeared a lot less too.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

After Kevin Conroy's death, Unikitty director Careen Ingle revealed that Conroy initially voiced Batman in the episode "Batkitty" before his lines were redubbed with Will Arnett in the final version of the episode, reprising his role from The Lego Movie.

 

[Fone Bone]

As if I didn't already have enough reasons to dislike Unikitty.

 

[Yojimbo]

Paul Dini mentioned it least once in the past but Mathew Valencia, voice of Robin/Tim, commented on a Harley detail changed in "Holiday Knights."

Fun fact. WB changed Harley into boy shorts because they thought the originally drawn scene with her in panties might be "too TV-MA" for a younger audience. 13 year old me was very disappointed, but Bruce Timm hooked me up with a b&w photocopied screen grab which I cherished.

 

[Frontier]

Paul Dini mentioned it least once in the past but Mathew Valencia, voice of Robin/Tim, commented on a Harley detail changed in "Holiday Knights."

Bruce Timm was a true man of culture .

 

[Yojimbo]

James Tucker revealed (private) in "Knights of Tomorrow!" there was a whole scene of Batman/Grayson chasing Penguin but it was cut for time and redundancy but he later reusued the scene for the end of Batman: Bad Blood.

Twelve years? Hard to believe! This episode had a whole bit showing Nightwing taking over as Batman fighting an older Penguin but we cut it at boards for time. It was ultimately redundant but it would’ve been cool to see. We used it later in Batman:Bad Blood though

 

[Frontier]

James Tucker revealed (private) in "Knights of Tomorrow!" there was a whole scene of Batman/Grayson chasing Penguin but it was cut for time and redundancy but he later reusued the scene for the end of Batman: Bad Blood.

Penguin is everybody's favorite eyecatching segment piece .

"Hey look, it's the Penguin!"

"Oh hey, they're talking about The Penguin!"

 

[RoyalRubble]

Pretty cool how unused material could always end up in different projects years later.

 

[Yojimbo]

2/11/23: Eric J. Pringle comments on all that hype about the TTG! movies and trying to get a TT S6

"I believe the intent was to create a buzz for s6, but the day of the release someone recorded this clip in the theater and posted it online giving fans no reason to see it for themselves. Thus the movie didn’t reach the numbers WB wanted to see to convince them to renew TT. Oops."

4/7: Chris McKay talks about what the LEGO Batman Movie sequel was about.

 

[M.O.D.O.K.]

2/11/23: Eric J. Pringle comments on all that hype about the TTG! movies and trying to get a TT S6

"I believe the intent was to create a buzz for s6, but the day of the release someone recorded this clip in the theater and posted it online giving fans no reason to see it for themselves. Thus the movie didn’t reach the numbers WB wanted to see to convince them to renew TT. Oops."

Although I have my, um, opinions regarding a continuation for the 2003 series, I don't think it's fair to tie it into a somewhat-related movie's success just to get another season. It reminds me when Capcom kept dangling hopes for a new Darkstalkers games based on the performance of (rather poor) compilations and re-releases that obviously fans wouldn't get.

4/7: Chris McKay talks about what the LEGO Batman Movie sequel was about.

That would've been interesting, but also probably veering too far from the Batman focus.

 

[Yojimbo]

9/2: At 18:29-19:06 to 19:55, Alan Burnett mentioned around 2003, Joe R. Lansdale wrote a Swamp Thing DTV based on an existing comic but Warner Home Video decided to shelve it and focus on bigger stars.

9/3: Kevin Altieri, at 41:53 of an interview with Batman TAS Podcast, reveals in "The Demon's Quest" the photos of the kidnapped Robin and Talia were going to be faxed but Altieri objected, "I'm sorry but I can't--I'm not doing those changes. We're not having a Xerox machine in the Batcave. It comes over the facsimile-the fax machine-that's how they would do it in this Modern Age. I'm like it's in an envelope with a couple of pictures. That's it."

Earlier in the interview at 34:%1, he said original title of "The Last Laugh" was "The Joker: April's Fool".

Marty Isenberg, at 5:48 of an interview with Batman TAS Podcast, revealed he and Robert N. Skir, pitched an origin for Riddler that he was a young arrogant teen whose super genius was exploited by his father/stepfather. Also at 9:32, he notes Pasko edited the third riddle's answer in "What is Reality?" from "two in the front seat, three in the back" to "two in the front, two in the back, one in the trunk."

Dan Riba, at 28:28 of an interview with Batman TAS Podcast, revealed after an actress recorded for Janet van Dorn in "Trial" they recast the role and got Stephanie Zimbalist.

There was another awkward thing about it was that the voice for Janet van Dorn was replaced after the fact so we cast someone else that was--she did great. There was nothing wrong with her performance but we had sense when we were recording or when we listened to the record that it was a little severe or little stern and the character was supposed to ultimately take Batman's side eventually and be sympathetic and there was something that wasn't as sympathetic in the tone of the voice. Just the way the performance was great, she was a wonderful actress but it's just something about the voice felt cold so they cast Stephanie Zimbalist.

At 39:54, he revealed Gary Owens was going to voice Gray Ghost until he pointed out to Timm that West should but originally the episode writer Tom Ruegger always intended for West to be the voice.

At 44:24, when George Lazenby was recording King for Beyond's "Dead Man's Hand," Timm changed a line to a Bond nod, the "we have all the time in the world" and Lazenby loved it.

At 1:02:15, he mentioned because a Metal Men movie was in development, they couldn't use Chemo in the JL episode "Metamorphosis".

9/5: Ben Jones reveals he tried to adapt Ty Templeton's "Present Tense" story from the DCU Holiday Bash II comic as a short for DC Nation but "some Grinch at Cartoon Network or DC (can't remember which) said no."

 

[Frontier]

I love how even after all these years we're still getting new DCAU tidbits .

 

[Yojimbo]

Rich Fogel did an interview with Batman TAS Podcast and spoke about his work on TNBA. 2 tidbits were:

-Sins of the Father
16:21-16:44: I do remember that in the early premise stage of it there was some discussion about who the villain should be in this one and at one st--one point it was the Joker. and then we said no. I think Bruce said, 'No, we don't want it to be the Joker. That's too on the nose' so then we switched it to Two-Face and you know and that worked out pretty well.

-Old Wounds
48:32-49:21 I proposed that Batman brought Barbara into the Bat-Family and that it caused a rift with Dick because of that-of his feelings for her. That made sense to me. Paul Dini had a different idea which was this idea that Batman had gotten to be too much, too much of a badass, too focused on his thing and had this idea for this scene of Batman beating the crap out of a thug in front of his family and in front of his small child and Alan ever being the diplomat and the genius behind the scenes said, 'Why don't we do both of them?'

 

[Frontier]

Rich Fogel did an interview with Batman TAS Podcast and spoke about his work on TNBA. 2 tidbits were:

-Sins of the Father
16:21-16:44: I do remember that in the early premise stage of it there was some discussion about who the villain should be in this one and at one st--one point it was the Joker. and then we said no. I think Bruce said, 'No, we don't want it to be the Joker. That's too on the nose' so then we switched it to Two-Face and you know and that worked out pretty well.

-Old Wounds
48:32-49:21 I proposed that Batman brought Barbara into the Bat-Family and that it caused a rift with Dick because of that-of his feelings for her. That made sense to me. Paul Dini had a different idea which was this idea that Batman had gotten to be too much, too much of a badass, too focused on his thing and had this idea for this scene of Batman beating the crap out of a thug in front of his family and in front of his small child and Alan ever being the diplomat and the genius behind the scenes said, 'Why don't we do both of them?'

It turned out great in both instances .

 

[Yojimbo]

On the first episode of the Justice League Revisited podcast with Susan Eisenberg and Geek To Me's James Enstall, Dan Riba was their first guest and at the 16:28 mark revealed out of the original seven, Wonder Woman was the hold out when they were working on the main cast because of the deal with the Marston estate and they had Big Barda just in case they couldn't get Diana.