Question about the JLU episode, "The Clash"

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

In this episode, Flash (or someone else?) mentions that the Justice League previously worked with Captain Marvel while Superman was away somewhere. Since I haven't seen all the episodes of the 2 seasons of the JL series, I might have missed that appearance. But I can't find anything on the web that tells me anything of Captain Marvel appearing in the JL series prior to his appearance on "The Clash"

Does anyone know what is being referenced here?

 

[Amayirot Akago]

In this episode, Flash (or someone else?) mentions that the Justice League previously worked with Captain Marvel while Superman was away somewhere. Since I haven't seen all the episodes of the 2 seasons of the JL series, I might have missed that appearance. But I can't find anything on the web that tells me anything of Captain Marvel appearing in the JL series prior to his appearance on "The Clash"

Does anyone know what is being referenced here?

Clash is Captain Marvel's first - and only - appearance in the DCAU.

 

[Simpler Simon]

I believe the bit you mean is Elongated Man, and it was mostly a throwaway line to explain why we were suddenly seeing a new superhero on the block ("Oh that's right...you were on a space mission when we recruited him.")

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I believe the bit you mean is Elongated Man, and it was mostly a throwaway line to explain why we were suddenly seeing a new superhero on the block ("Oh that's right...you were on a space mission when we recruited him.")

Perhaps this is it. But even the Deadman episode referred to an actual storyline that happened in the BTAS comics to explain how Deadman knew Batman.

 

[Temple Fugate]

Perhaps this is it. But even the Deadman episode referred to an actual storyline that happened in the BTAS comics to explain how Deadman knew Batman.

That is true, but the situations are different. "Dead Reckoning" paid homage to a story in the animated comics, but no such story existed for Captain Marvel. EM's line about recruiting him while Supes was away in space was never actually shown in any medium.

Would've been nice to see Captain Marvel in "Destroyer."

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

That is true, but the situations are different. "Dead Reckoning" paid homage to a story in the animated comics, but no such story existed for Captain Marvel. EM's line about recruiting him while Supes was away in space was never actually shown in any medium.

Would've been nice to see Captain Marvel in "Destroyer."

Yeah, I know. i just find it odd that they'd use a throwaway line like that with no reference, because for most of the series, they'd always used inside jokes or references to explain certain details.

 

[DisneyBoy]

There's only so much time to introduce new characters. I think it works. Besides, it sets up the fact that Superman wasn't involved in his recruiting - which creates tension right off the bat.

 

[John Cage]

Yeah, I know. i just find it odd that they'd use a throwaway line like that with no reference, because for most of the series, they'd always used inside jokes or references to explain certain details.

Yeah, but it was there so the episode could hit the ground running. If they'd shown Captain Marvel joining the league -- which, by the way, would be a fun idea for the JLU comic -- it would've eaten into the episode, which was pretty crowded as it was.

It's not like JLU didn't so this from time to time. There was that news footage from "Shadow of the Hawk", showing a bunch of fights that we didn't see, including one that took place back during the original two Justice League seasons. Would it have been nice if Carter Hall had been retroactively following Shayera in stories we got to see? Sure, but the fights between the Adversary, the Khunds, and Giganta and Killer Frost glimpsed there only affirmed the fact that there's a lot of stuff that happens between stories, and Captain Marvel's recruitment was just part of that.

Have a good day.
John Cage

 

[Toddman]

...the fights between the Adversary, the Khunds, and Giganta and Killer Frost....

Have a good day.
John Cage

Just needlessly wondering more than anything, but in the footage of the fight with Giganta you mention above, the only indication of a character with ice-based powers we see is the ice bridge that Giganta falls into.

I assumed Killer Frost was behind-the-scenes in that scuffle also, but does anybody think that perhaps Ice created the bridge instead of Killer Frost?


Toddman

 

[BCVM22]

I assumed Killer Frost was behind-the-scenes in that scuffle also, but does anybody think that perhaps Ice created the bridge instead of Killer Frost?

Now that I think of it, that was my assumption during that scene as well.

 

[Temple Fugate]

It could have been either Weather Wizard or Mr. Freeze as well, couldn't it?

 

[TemporalFlux]

In this episode, Flash (or someone else?) mentions that the Justice League previously worked with Captain Marvel while Superman was away somewhere. Since I haven't seen all the episodes of the 2 seasons of the JL series, I might have missed that appearance. But I can't find anything on the web that tells me anything of Captain Marvel appearing in the JL series prior to his appearance on "The Clash"

Does anyone know what is being referenced here?

As others have stated, there is no other known, actual appearance of Captain Marvel. However, the throw-away reference in "The Clash" could have been an inside nod to the producers' original plan to use Captain Marvel in the season two story "Hereafter".

In that story, Superman "dies" which leaves a void in the Justice League. The producers wanted to introduce Captain Marvel to fill that void, but the legal rights couldn't be worked out at the time of "Hereafter". Because of that, the story shifted to use Lobo trying to force his way in instead.

 

[Simpler Simon]

I wonder how the original concept would've ended then, since Lobo gets booted from the league once Superman comes back. Would Captain Marvel just step aside and go home?

 

[John Cage]

Now that I think of it, that was my assumption during that scene as well.

Since Shayera knocks Giganta into it, that would make more sense.

Have a good day.
John Cage

 

[Toddman]

As others have stated, there is no other known, actual appearance of Captain Marvel. However, the throw-away reference in "The Clash" could have been an inside nod to the producers' original plan to use Captain Marvel in the season two story "Hereafter".

In that story, Superman "dies" which leaves a void in the Justice League. The producers wanted to introduce Captain Marvel to fill that void, but the legal rights couldn't be worked out at the time of "Hereafter". Because of that, the story shifted to use Lobo trying to force his way in instead.

I don't think I've ever heard this before. Is that just a rumor, or can you reference an interview or news story?

Just wondering...

Toddman

 

[BCVM22]

I don't think I've ever heard this before. Is that just a rumor, or can you reference an interview or news story?

Just wondering...

Toddman

Courtesy of The Watchtower:

Bruce Timm on “Hereafter”: “At that time, the rights to Captain Marvel weren’t available to us, so we couldn’t do that. Somehow that story got mixed up with ‘Hereafter,’ and somebody, I can’t remember who, said, ‘If we can’t have Captain Marvel replace Superman, who would be the best person to replace him?’ Well, it couldn’t be anybody obvious that people would suspect, and we came up with Lobo. Within five minutes we had that whole story plotted out; everything just fell into place.”

 

[Toddman]

Courtesy of The Watchtower:

Bruce Timm on “Hereafter”: “At that time, the rights to Captain Marvel weren’t available to us, so we couldn’t do that. Somehow that story got mixed up with ‘Hereafter,’ and somebody, I can’t remember who, said, ‘If we can’t have Captain Marvel replace Superman, who would be the best person to replace him?’ Well, it couldn’t be anybody obvious that people would suspect, and we came up with Lobo. Within five minutes we had that whole story plotted out; everything just fell into place.”

Cool. Thanks.



Toddman

 

[murmur]

Wow, Hereafter Part I could have been totally different. I always thought the Lobo action scenes, especially at the Watchtower, were way too long and the time would have been better put showing more personal reaction to Superman's death (perhaps more Lois, or Jimmy or the Kents could have had speaking roles). But I thought using Lobo did at least serve the worthwhile purpose of showing that Superman's most irreplaceable qualities came not from his powers but his moral fiber. I don't know that Marvel could show such a contrast. His depiction in "Clash" in fact shows that if anything, he maintains Superman's early idealism better than Superman himself.

So what on earth did the team have in mind for Marvel? Would there still be something lacking that reinforces the pain of Superman's absence, or would he have worked out perfectly? Would they have discovered he's just a kid and tell him to reapply in a few years?

 

[Simpler Simon]

So what on earth did the team have in mind for Marvel? Would there still be something lacking that reinforces the pain of Superman's absence, or would he have worked out perfectly? Would they have discovered he's just a kid and tell him to reapply in a few years?

I think, like with all early abandoned concepts, the team never got far enough along in the story phase to figure that out. at least, thats what it sounds like from the quote.

 

[b.t.]

I think, like with all early abandoned concepts, the team never got far enough along in the story phase to figure that out. at least, thats what it sounds like from the quote.

that's exactly right, it was just a vague notion that got shot down before we could fully explore it....chances are, that part of "hereafter" would have been played much "straighter" than the deliberately off-kilter lobo version... but actually, i really like how lobo throws a jarring left-turn/ plot-twist/monkey-wrench into the story....in retrospect, capt. marvel seems kinda obvious and ho-hum in the context of a "death of superman" story....

also, however that story would have turned out with capt. marvel in it, it's very likely that we would have "shot our marvel wad", and as a result, "clash" would probably never have come about, at all....so, once again, dc said "no, you can't do that" and we ended up better off all around....funny how that always seems to happen....