Once and Future Thing on YTV tonight???

Toddman

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Knight said:
Has there ever been new episodes of two different versions of the same character being aired at the same time?
Yep, it's not only happened before, it's happened with BATMAN before...

In 1977, The New Adventures of Batman by Filmation started airing on CBS. Meanwhile on ABC, Hanna-Barbera's The All New Super Friends Hour started airing that same year. And of course, Batman and Robin were both members of the Super Friends.

Different continuities, different shows, different networks, different animation studios, same characters.

Toddman
 

Knight

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Telle said:
There was a great (read: horrible) Superfriends ep where the moon split open and a giant space moth was hatched and attacked earth. The Atom (called in because of his expertise in enlarging) enlarged Apache Chief (by pulling a convenient lever) who then saved the day. The funny thing was I saw this ep the day after Dark Heart was aired on YTV.
That is a pretty terrible sounding plot.

Toddman said:
Yep, it's not only happened before, it's happened with BATMAN before...

In 1977, The New Adventures of Batman by Filmation started airing on CBS. Meanwhile on ABC, Hanna-Barbera's The All New Super Friends Hour started airing that same year. And of course, Batman and Robin were both members of the Super Friends.

Different continuities, different shows, different networks, different animation studios, same characters.

Toddman
Thanks didnt know that. It makes me wonder how that era was able to get away with it but now its not permitted.

As far as the whole Batman charcters that can and cant be used thing it seems that they can only not use any characters that appeared on BTAS and TNBA. Huntress, Deadshot, KGbeast and Blockbuster never were on the show and most of the time arent considered major bat foes.

So maybe we can get some characters just not the major ones.
 

Karkull

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FALLEN ELDOR said:
How do you distinguish original characters like Harley and Dee Dee from Spell Binder and Blockbuster? Spell Binder and Blockbuster are both obscure bat villains, but spell binder was updated in BB and will be used on The batman, is he on the "banned" list for JLU? If Spell Binder is on the banned list, then why aren't Dee Dee and Blockbuster? Don't even get me started on the Huntress! She is also a member of the bat family. It's an odd distinction, and I just want a clear cut line...

It would make since if the characters appearing on the banned list are characters that have, will or even might show up on The Batman and the film...that would account for the Huntress, dead shot, KGbeast and Blockbuster...
You got me. I just figure that Joker and Penguin are "must haves" -- along with some of the others -- but once you get down to the B and C listers there's more gray. The creators of the "other show" have to establish Joker, Catwoman, Bane, and Penguin; do they have time to get to Blockbuster yet? Or Deadshot? Or KGBeast? They might come back for them later but, for now, they're off the radar.

As for Batman Beyond, that's practically another license, isn't it?
 

NIGHTWING_23

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Hey guys, I thought I'd post this now. According to tvtome.com, they have already changed "The Cat and the Canary" and "Miracles Happen" to being the the season finale and have already moved "The Once and Future Thing" to being the season opener. Under "The Once and Future Thing Part 2" they have written that YTV has exchanged the two parter for both reruns of "Initiation" and "For the Man Who Has Everything". So maybe after "For the Man Who Has Everything" airs on Friday then the following week YTV will air "The Cat and the Canary".

Just a thought.

Here's a link to tvtome:

http://www.tvtome.com/JusticeLeague/guide.html
 

Wizard

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Well, Blockbuster has been used this season. We might see Deadshot again.

ETA:

NIGHTWING_23: We can certainly hope, although I wouldn't count out a holiday airing of Comfort and Joy.
 

DerekPowers

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Toddman said:
Yep, it's not only happened before, it's happened with BATMAN before...

In 1977, The New Adventures of Batman by Filmation started airing on CBS. Meanwhile on ABC, Hanna-Barbera's The All New Super Friends Hour started airing that same year. And of course, Batman and Robin were both members of the Super Friends.

Different continuities, different shows, different networks, different animation studios, same characters.

Toddman

well there you go. the bat villians embargo is totally ridiculous, people are capable of understanding 2 sets of continuity, or at the very least, its not like they'd be so suprised that that concept exists. youd think theyd want that because it more marketing capabilities. they can profit twice off the same characters, but oh well. theyre doing it right now with batman, 2 sets of toys, etc, why not just extend it to the villians. i mean, the batman has been airing for a while, and jl batman exists with the batman in both toys, screen time (well, maybe "the batman" has more, but still, jl bat gets a lot, which is GOOD) and nobody is all mixed up about it. they should just extend that idea to the villians as well, or at the very least THE JOKER, geez.

anyway, thanks toddman for the info. peace.
 

Toddman

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DerekPowers said:
well there you go. the bat villians embargo is totally ridiculous, people are capable of understanding 2 sets of continuity, or at the very least, its not like they'd be so suprised that that concept exists.
You're right... marketing strategies aside, fans (even little kids) are capable of watching Batman on two totally different shows, with two different voice actors and not having their heads explode. I was a little kid in the 70's and managed to figure it all out, just like kids today can separate the Batman in JLU from The Batman.

But even the situation in the 70's seemed to have clear separation of rights to the Bat-Villains. The New Adventures of Batman regularly featured Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, and Clayface. Challenge of the Superfriends was limited to Riddler and Scarecrow. Those villains never crossed-over.

It's still very similar to the situation we have today.

anyway, thanks toddman for the info.
No problemo
 

Legionaire

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b.t. said:
absolutely no truth to this "moon is a harsh mistress" rumor whatsoever....NONE. NADA. ZIP.
Nobody seems to have pointed out that "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is a seminal science fiction novel by Robert Heinlein (may have won a Nebula and/or Hugo). Concerns a revolution on the moon masterminded by a computer--unlike Brainiac, this one is a good guy.

Well worth reading, despite it being 40 years old or so.
 

Knight

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Legionaire said:
Nobody seems to have pointed out that "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is a seminal science fiction novel by Robert Heinlein (may have won a Nebula and/or Hugo). Concerns a revolution on the moon masterminded by a computer--unlike Brainiac, this one is a good guy.

Well worth reading, despite it being 40 years old or so.
Yeah the guy who made up the story about that being a JLU episode must be a fan. Thats what I like about this site we dont have people making up a bunch of false bs for kicks. Or better yet we have people who will crush things like that as being false rumors.
 
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b.t. said:
i don't see the bat-embargo lifting anytime soon....

but to tell you the truth, as much as i, too, love those characters, i don't really miss 'em all that much....it's not like we don't have TONS of other interesting characters to play with...if i were doing an actual "batman" show, and not allowed to use those characters, yeah, that'd be pretty galling, but batman's only one ingredient in the justice league brew...the bat-clan aren't really essential in any way to the current show....so, let's all just take a deep breath and move on, shall we?
But here's the unfair part, you're bringing us back all these Superman villians and supporting characters, but yet Batman's villians and supporting characters are not allowed. Isn't that at least a tiny bit unfair to Batman fans? Sorry, that's just the way I see it how Superman fans are getting the return of some of their favorite villians and characters while Bat-family fans and Bat-villians fans are being left out in the cold. But, at least Lois hasn't appeared yet. Then that'd be really unfair.(of course this ain't the crew's fault, it's the WB) The reason these characters are offlimits are because of The Batman correct? How kids will be confused if there are two versions of the characters on screen when the two shows are on DIFFERENT CHANNELS. And for the record, Batgirl, Robin and Nightwing aren't even on The Batman anyway. Why are they offlimits then?
 
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maxnugget

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Batman's Biggest Fan said:
But here's the unfair part, you're bringing us back all these Superman villians and supporting characters, but yet Batman's villians and supporting characters are not allowed. Isn't that at least a tiny bit unfair to Batman fans? Sorry, that's just the way I see it how Superman fans are getting the return of some of their favorite villians and characters while Bat-family fans and Bat-villians fans are being left out in the cold. But, at least Lois hasn't appeared yet. Then that'd be really unfair.

You're right. b.t. and his team should engage in a voluntary Man-of-Steel-embargo too, just to be fair.

Also, though I'm certainly not in favor of this...bat-embargo, and wish WB wouldn't do it, it's not entirely true that people are capable of recognizing shows as being part of different continuities.

First off, casual teen and adult viewers who catch these shows sporadically might not realize that they're different versions of the character.

But more importantly (to WB), kids tend to not understand this concept and don't recognize varying continuity the way adults do. You can argue that it's underestimating kids' intelligience to say that, but more often than not, it's true.

Heck, to give an extreme example: when I was little, the first "Star Wars" movie I saw was Spaceballs. Then I saw Empire Strikes Back, then Return of the Jedi. It wasn't until a couple years later that I saw the actual "A New Hope" and figured out that Spaceballs was not the first movie of the trilogy. That's because at that young age it didn't occur to me that Spaceballs was a parody, and the differences in tone between it and the trilogy sequels was not quite apparent.

Even aside from my extreme example, face it, young kids are going to be confused by the two different shows. Just look how similar the character designs are betwen "The Batman" and JLU's Batman. If you were a kid, would you be wise enough to figure out that your Bat-Wave toys are not going to light up when you watch JLU?

And be prepared for the onslaught of media coverage and everyday people thinking that Batman Begins is a "prequel" to the previous four movies. It's going to take a lot of marketing work on WB's part to hammer into people's heads that this new movie is in separate continuity from the previous four, including the two Burton films. It's stuff like this that I'm sure drives WB crazy, and in this example I frankly don't blame them...

Of course, aside from examples like not being able to use the Bat-Wave toys on JLU and wondering why your The Batman-style Joker action figure doesn't look at all like the Joker on JLU, there's a good case to be made that, if you're too young to recognize the difference between two shows depicting two separate versions of a character, you're also probably too young to care much. If anything, it might help ratings, because kids who like The Batman's Batman might get hooked on JLU by seeing Batman there, and vice versa.

Isn't it just a little ironic that the one Batman character that WB is allowing them to use on JLU -- namely, Batman himself -- is the character kids are MOST likely to confuse with The Batman's version? Nearly all the supporting characters and villains in The Batman have a drastically different character design, voice actor, etc, from the DCAU versions. NOBODY is going to confuse the Joker in The Batman with the DCAU version, other than perhaps scratching their heads when they're referred to by name.

And on a final note, an argument in favor of lifting the bat-embargo, is the fact that even if JLU is allowed to use Batman's supporting characters and rogues gallery, they'd be used sparsely. Joker might get one or at most two additional appearances. Alfred might have a cameo or two. Nightwing might show up in an alternate universe running through the garden with an alternate universe Barbara. What are the chances that kids are going to see these brief appearances, pick up on who the characters are (who are often not even referred to by name in JL/JLU when they do appear), and think anything of it?

Maybe JLU should just be forbidden from mentioning these characters by name...
 

Knight

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Batman's Biggest Fan said:
But here's the unfair part, you're bringing us back all these Superman villians and supporting characters, but yet Batman's villians and supporting characters are not allowed. Isn't that at least a tiny bit unfair to Batman fans? Sorry, that's just the way I see it how Superman fans are getting the return of some of their favorite villians and characters while Bat-family fans and Bat-villians fans are being left out in the cold. But, at least Lois hasn't appeared yet. Then that'd be really unfair.?
Its not even his call on who he can and cant use so why should his inability to use the Bat cast have anything to do with not using Superman's? The two aren't attached at the hip and have to have everything about them decided equally. I personally like both characters a lot and wouldn't like the idea of the team limiting Superman supporting cast just to satisfy some of the Bat fans. As a Batfan myself I have no problems with Superman having full access to his villains and so on.
 

Karkull

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K'know, I feel kinda bad for b.t. right now. As a writer I can see the bind he's sort of in: even if he does miss the option of playing with the Bat-characters, he also doesn't want to be pigeon-holed with those character forever. It's like, "C'mon! I revitalized Dr. Destiny, Metallo, Despero, Vandal Savage...and you want to see the Joker again! Oy..."
 
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^I guess it just comes from the whole. "WOW! Look at all the DC heros and heroines showing up, this is like a dream show!" That's just the way people are looking at it I guess, but yeah, I'd understand if he was feeling that way, but you know how the fans are. ;) But yeah, if these characters do show up, I will be happy, but for now I guess I'll enjoy what I get, and if b.t. gets a chance to use them they'd be great though.
 

Fone Bone

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The only two I REALLY want are Nightwing and Ra's Al Ghul. Joker has had multiple Justice League appearances, Static Shock and ROTJ, Robin was on Static Shock TWICE AND MOTB, Harley and Ivy were in Gotham Girls, JL, and Static Shock, Batgirl had Gotham Girls, Alfred had JL and SS, Gordon had GG and SS, Catwoman was in GG and Chase Me, and Mr Freeze was in Batman Beyond. But Nightwing hasn't been seen since TNBA and Ra's is SCREAMING for an appearance after Out of the Past.

It would be cool to wrap up Two-Face's story too even though he had a cameo A Better World.

b.t. next I want a JLU Beyond show featuring Terry and pals.
 
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^I'm not sure if I like that idea. But if we all wait patiently b.t. may get to use Dick, Babs, Tim and the villians again. What's that old saying? "Good things come to those who wait." :)

But still..... if you and your crew ever got a chance b.t. please use them. Thank You. (Sorry, but my want for them is growing.) :)
 
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The Master Con

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Fone Bone said:
The only two I REALLY want are Nightwing and Ra's Al Ghul.
I too agree, although I feel Barbara Gordon should be allowed to appear in "Once and Future Thing." As for the rest of the Batvillains and family, I feel that each character during the course of the DCAU got their own conclusions and chances for redemption. Mr. Freeze in Meltdown, Two Face in Second Chance, the Joker in ROTJ, etc. One could argue that Ra's Al Ghul got his own conclusion in Out of The Past, however we never saw the final confrontation that brought him into such a weak state of being. Even in ROTJ we saw the Joker's death.
 

Allen CARR

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well Batman Beyond as Bruce Timm stated is a possible future, since it came before Justice league. so some of the Batman beyond stuff might be changed, includung the date of Jokers death.


Also besides the joker, what other Batman villian could take on the JLU and make it respectable? None really, Batman badguys are for Batman, Batmans a detective, he was never to be on a world saving team. His villians, are met to drive Batman nuts, not have superman or Wonderwoman pop them in the head with thier fingers.
 

James

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Allen CARR said:
well Batman Beyond as Bruce Timm stated is a possible future, since it came before Justice league. so some of the Batman beyond stuff might be changed, includung the date of Jokers death.
I believe at some point he also stated that they cited as possible to apease hardcore fans, while if you look at the shows - particularly JL and Static Shock, it seems more and more set in stone it is the future.

Look at it this way, Batman Beyond is Dini and Timm's own legacy - it's not merely reinventing the myth of Batman like BTAS, it's creating on. Put yourself in their shoes - would you be trying to distance your legacy from the more "official" animation? I wouldn't think so. While I wouldn't dare speak for Timm (especially since he lurks here so much ;)) I'm sure there must be a stronger bond to BB than then fans give credit for.

I could be utterly wrong, but I've seen nothing in DCAU to cling to this age old quote of Timm's from yesteryear that it is possible and far more to say it's canon.

Also besides the joker, what other Batman villian could take on the JLU and make it respectable? None really, Batman badguys are for Batman.
Right.... :p I would say Batman's villains are some of the most dangerous of the bunch because they work on the fringe of humanity. Joker is unpredictable - you've seen him take on the League in Wild Cards. Penguin sits like Lex, very close to the law making him hard to touch. Two Face runs a mix of the two - very clever both in legal and criminal matters. Clayface also works from within. I really don't think they should be underestimated as they work on a different level than big attack fleets or stupid fights. Never underestimate the brain - afterall, Superman and Lex did that with Joker in "World's Finest"...

Batmans a detective, he was never to be on a world saving team. His villians, are met to drive Batman nuts, not have superman or Wonderwoman pop them in the head with thier fingers.
That's not the way they work. It's like saying Grundy is no match for Batman because he can't play chess well. Each villain - especially the good ones like the ones I've mentioned work to their attributes. With the JL being so political at the moment, proving connections to any world threat through Bat Villains would probably be a bigger stumbling block for the league than a space fleet. You can't "pop them in the head" if you can't prove in what way they are connected.

How Bat villians work with the League would be different to how they work with Batman - different game, different rules. The cream of Batman's foes would recognize that very fast.

Furthermore, this is fiction and a good writer can make Killer Moth run a believable battle if they so want, so again it's all moot - what we all believe is not fact. Fact comes from the mind of the writer and a good writer can make what seems a bad idea fantastic.
 

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