News and Politics 2017 (General Political Discussion thread)

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ToonJay723

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Draft dodging Trump once again disrespects the military and Gold Star Families.

A tweet from a sibling of someone who was killed in battle (I didn't embed this tweet, cause it has an F-bomb)

Another thing that he and his supporters are hypocritical about. They say they like the military, but their actions show otherwise.

EDIT: And another thing.
Didn't people vote for you to lock her up? Are you so sure that you would lose against a normal candidate, that you're letting her free just so you can have an easy win in 2020?
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Didn't people vote for you to lock her up? Are you so sure that you would lose against a normal candidate, that you're letting her free just so you can have an easy win in 2020?
You're assuming it would be an easy win. I don't even think he'll still be in office at that point.

Moot point as Hillary is never going to run for anything again.

Edit: Also Hillary was a completely normal candidate. It was Trump who was (and is) crazy and abnormal. Any attempt to say differently normalizes Trump. Which I will never hesitate to call out.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
And likewise, liberals will attack Trump for the sexual assault allegations against him, but ignore the ones against Clinton.
Sorry for the double-post, but upon second thought, I can't let that go. I didn't vote for Clinton in 1996. I thought he was a creep, and bad for women's issues because of that fact. I was only 17 in 1992, but I wouldn't have voted for him then either for the same reason. Sexual harassment and assault is not a team sport. And I resent people telling me it is. If I can vote for someone other than my party nominee because they are a creep, anyone can.
 

ToonJay723

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Edit: Also Hillary was a completely normal candidate. It was Trump who was (and is) crazy and abnormal. Any attempt to say differently normalizes Trump. Which I will never hesitate to call out.
I meant normal as in doesn't have a huge criminal record, or isn't extremely polarizing
 
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wonderfly

Is this the future?!?
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Draft dodging Trump once again disrespects the military and Gold Star Families.

A tweet from a sibling of someone who was killed in battle (I didn't embed this tweet, cause it has an F-bomb)

Another thing that he and his supporters are hypocritical about. They say they like the military, but their actions show otherwise.
Yeah, apparently the media is trying to stir another dust up between another Gold Star family and Trump. (like the Khan family at the Democrat Convention last year).

The fact that a Democrat Congresswoman was sitting in on the phone call, and that she was the one that ran to the media to portray the President as "insensitive", tells me all I need to know.

And on the press conference, leaving aside that it was an "off the cuff" improptu response, (Trump obviously didn't know how past President's handled such matters) I think Trump admitted in his statement that trying to talk to a grieving family is one of the hardest things to do. Here's the press conference (fast forward to 20:08 for the question and response by Trump).

I think he gave a solid response and the only thing he got wrong was generalizing how past Presidents handle it. He said he doesn't want to burden the families immediately and that's why he doesn't call first thing, and that when you have to do multiple phone calls like that in one day, it becomes emotionally draining (maybe the call to the Johnson family came after the other family phone calls that same day).

There is much truth in the comment of "he (the soldier who died) knew what he was signing up for". All soldiers know the possibility of death looms over their time in the battlefield. Trump meant it as a tribute to the young man's courage, for enlisting. The Democrat congresswoman and the media are wanting to spin it like he was saying "Hey, you know, them's the breaks! Tough luck, guys! I'm outta here...*click* "

I want to hear from the other Green Beret families that Trump called that same day - are they going to come forward as well, or just the one sitting around with a Democrat Congresswoman, who has a motive for smearing our President?
 

Spideyzilla

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Yeah, apparently the media is trying to stir another dust up between another Gold Star family and Trump. (like the Khan family at the Democrat Convention last year).

The fact that a Democrat Congresswoman was sitting in on the phone call, and that she was the one that ran to the media to portray the President as "insensitive", tells me all I need to know.

And on the press conference, leaving aside that it was an "off the cuff" improptu response, (Trump obviously didn't know how past President's handled such matters) I think Trump admitted in his statement that trying to talk to a grieving family is one of the hardest things to do. Here's the press conference (fast forward to 20:08 for the question and response by Trump).

I think he gave a solid response and the only thing he got wrong was generalizing how past Presidents handle it. He said he doesn't want to burden the families immediately and that's why he doesn't call first thing, and that when you have to do multiple phone calls like that in one day, it becomes emotionally draining (maybe the call to the Johnson family came after the other family phone calls that same day).

There is much truth in the comment of "he (the soldier who died) knew what he was signing up for". All soldiers know the possibility of death looms over their time in the battlefield. Trump meant it as a tribute to the young man's courage, for enlisting. The Democrat congresswoman and the media are wanting to spin it like he was saying "Hey, you know, them's the breaks! Tough luck, guys! I'm outta here...*click* "

I want to hear from the other Green Beret families that Trump called that same day - are they going to come forward as well, or just the one sitting around with a Democrat Congresswoman, who has a motive for smearing our President?
Want to hear from the family? No problem. The mother of the slain soldier confirmed the Democratic congresswoman’s account. She also said Trump disrespected her son, her daughter in law, her husband and herself. The congresswoman is apparently a friend of the family, which explains how she knew. A little hard to say it’s all a Democratic Party smear when the mother is confirming it as true.

Ask yourself, why would a Democratic congresswoman make up something that, if untrue, would be easily and quickly debunked by the family? Especially when she knows the family? Think, does it really make any sense for her to make it up?
 
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wonderfly

Is this the future?!?
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Want to hear from the family? No problem. The mother of the slain soldier confirmed the Democratic congresswoman’s account. She also said Trump disrespected her son, her daughter in law, her husband and herself. The congresswoman is apparently a friend of the family, which explains how she knew. A little hard to say it’s all a Democratic Party smear when the mother is confirming it as true.
I was saying I wanted to hear from the families of the other 3 Green Beret's killed, who were also called that same day.

Ask yourself, why would a Democratic congresswoman make up something that, if untrue, would be easily and quickly debunked by the family? Especially when she knows the family? Think, does it really make any sense for her to make it up?
I'm saying the Congresswoman misinterpreted Trump's statement because she has an inherent bias against Trump, and is more than willing to feed that narrative to a biased media.

At the White House press conference this afternoon, Press Secretary Sanders said that White House Chief of Staff John Kelly was present with Trump when he made the phone calls, and Kelly (who's own son was killed in action) saw nothing wrong with how Trump conducted the phone calls.

It's a smear.
 

Spideyzilla

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I'm saying the Congresswoman misinterpreted Trump's statement because she has an inherent bias against Trump, and is more than willing to feed that narrative to a biased media.
Once again, the mother confirmed Trump was disrespectful, no misinterpretation here. And just because someone is from the opposite party doesn’t mean they’d stoop so low as to smear him like this. Especially when they knew the deceased.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
And on the press conference, leaving aside that it was an "off the cuff" improptu response, (Trump obviously didn't know how past President's handled such matters)
Forget the fact that it isn't how a President should handle such matters. It's not how an effing HUMAN BEING should handle such matters. How does a person not know you don't tell the spouse of a soldier who was just killed that their husband "Knew what they were getting into"? Trump is a freaking monster.
It's a smear.
How is reporting something true that has been corroborated a smear? If you want the media to stop reporting on the stupid crap that Trump does, the more obvious solution is for Trump to stop doing stupid crap.
 

wonderfly

Is this the future?!?
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Once again, the mother confirmed Trump was disrespectful, no misinterpretation here. And just because someone is from the opposite party doesn’t mean they’d stoop so low as to smear him like this. Especially when they knew the deceased.
Once again, John Kelly says it wasn't disrespectful. The mother INTERPRETED disrespect because she's friends with a liberal Democrat Congresswoman who's voting record shows she hates the military,, so she (the Congresswoman) doesn't get to have a say in what's disrespectful.

Forget the fact that it isn't how a President should handle such matters. It's not how an effing HUMAN BEING should handle such matters. How does a person not know you don't tell the spouse of a soldier who was just killed that their husband "Knew what they were getting into"? Trump is a freaking monster.
Again, "knew what they were signing up for" is a recognition of a soldier's courage.

Another Gold Star family mother (Karen Vaughn) who's son died in military service in 2011, was interviewed yesterday, and she has nothing but praise for Trump. She says former President George W. Bush said the exact same words to her just a few months ago, and that it was a compliment. She says leaving aside the interpretation of the words, the family should feel honored that the President is taking the time to call them personally. She also says back in 2011 that Obama used her son's death as a photo opportunity (even after they had asked for no photos to be taken) as the bodies of soldiers were coming home at the airport, and then Obama didn't even stick around for all of the caskets to come off the plane.

"Yeah but she's obviously a right wing Republican, so she doesn't count!" - well, what political allegiance do you think the Khan family has, and what political allegiance do you think this family (the friends of Congresswoman Wilson) has?

In the end, I'm going to side with the side that wants to actually win a war and defend America.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
In the end, I'm going to side with the side that wants to actually win a war and defend America.
Oh, my God. You did NOT just say that. That is SO freaking disgusting. Seriously disappointed in you, wonderfly. You used to be better than that.
 

wonderfly

Is this the future?!?
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Oh, my God. You did NOT just say that. That is SO freaking disgusting. Seriously disappointed in you, wonderfly. You used to be better than that.
Eh, it's been debated in this thread before (if not in this year's "News and Politics" thread, then in previous years), and it's a reference to Obama/Hillary/Democrats not wanting to actually win in Iraq and Afghanistan. For instance, they opposed the Surge in Iraq in 2007 because they didn't want it to appear we were gaining ground, so that America would end up electing Democrats, who in turn do crazy things like announce when American troops are leaving a country (before the battle is won) or they trade 5 Taliban prisoners in exchange for 1 U.S. military deserter (who just plead guilty to deserting and could face life in prison.)

Also, I get a little tired of me making an anti-Democrat comment, and I get "OMG, RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION!" for a response, and yet I've sat through numerous "Republicans put party before country" jabs at the GOP, by left wing members in this thread, without me responding "WHY I NEVER - YOU CAN'T SAY THAT!!!"

EDIT: General John Kelly came to the podium again today to defend Trump.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
What you said is that you'd trust the people who wanted to win the war on this version of events of what Trump said. You are literally saying that poor pregnant widow who just lost her husband wanted us to lose the war. That is actually ten times worse than what Trump said. I'm starting to see why you're always defending him.
 

wonderfly

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You are literally saying that poor pregnant widow who just lost her husband wanted us to lose the war.
See, that's not what I said. EDIT:...okay, as I reread my sentence, I can see it's unclear. So I'll just say that's not what I meant. And just to be clear, it was the mother of the slain soldier who yesterday agreed with Congresswoman Wilson, not the widow of the slain soldier. I don't believe we've heard from the widow.

Sometimes these Gold Star families turn to politics (like Cindy Sheehan of "Code Pink", remember her? Or Karen Vaughn, who I mentioned above, on the side of the Republicans). The Johnson family may go that route, they may not. In the end, my beef is with Congresswoman Frederica Wilson, and the Obama's and Clinton's who use these people for their own political advancement.

But I've said enough, so I'll just leave it at that.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
I don't believe we've heard from the widow.
We DID hear from the widow. She was very upset at what Trump said. And that's all that matters.

You say you didn't mean what you said the way it sounded, but you're a dude an internet message board. You can be excused for not making yourself clear 100% of the time. But Trump is President of the United States. If he cannot do this aspect of the job properly, that's a problem. And that's why we're upset.

I sincerely doubt Trump woke up that day and decided to insult that widow because he wanted to hurt her. But that doesn't matter, because he hurt her anyways. And the President of the United States should not be doing that. But it happens all the time, which frankly makes me question his mental state. If this narcissistic sociopath is so far-gone that he can't even muster a "Your husband was a hero and I thank him for his service," why is he even President anyways? Why would you vote for somebody who clearly cannot handle this important aspect of the job?
 

MDawg

Nerfariously planning
It's a physically disgusting individual who has zero concept of empathy to try and sympathize with anyone. That's all you had to say @wonderfly. It's a regular problem of people with mental disorders, so did you really expect someone with a narcissist complex and that would likely try to cash in on the deaths of its own children to understand that people feel sadness ever or how to provide comfort or solace in such situations?

But apparently it is perfect and infallible

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
One of these things is not like the others...

https://thinkprogress.org/as-five-former-presidents-focus-on-hurricane-relief-trump-plays-golf-4ae23b4875cc/amp/

All five living former U.S. presidents are set to participate in a fundraiser for hurricane relief efforts on Saturday, but they won’t be joined by the current job holder — President Donald Trump is marking the occasion at his golf course.

In a rare joint appearance, former Presidents Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, and Jimmy Carter will attend a benefit concert at Reed Arena at Texas A&M University, part of a larger effort to aid the millions of U.S. citizens suffering from hurricane damage.

“It’s important that those affected by these devastating storms know that even if the path to recovery feels like a road that goes on forever, we’re with them for the long haul,” said President George H.W. Bush.

Snip

But the concert’s joint appearance will arguably be most notable for who it doesn’t include. Per White House pool reports, Trump is instead spending Saturday at his golf course in Virginia — the 74th day he has spent at a golf club as president.

Trump has come under fire for his response to the hurricanes, especially the crisis in Puerto Rico. After initially ignoring the catastrophe while tweeting about the National Football League, Trump proceeded to blame the island’s problems on its pre-existing debt. He later threatened to end recovery efforts and directly targeted San Juan’s mayor, Carmen Yulín Cruz, after she criticized the White House’s response to the island’s problems. Nonetheless, Trump congratulated himself on Thursday for his administration’s handling of the crisis, saying he would rank federal relief efforts “a 10.”

That attitude has prevailed throughout the crisis. In a similar moment last month, Trump lauded his administration’s response before heading off to one of his golf courses.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
[REFLIST][/REFLIST]So we heard again from the widow...

He didn't even remember his name. The picture in the article just breaks my heart.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/23/1709038/-Myeshia-Johnson-very-upset-and-hurt-by-Trump-s-heartless-phone-call-Trump-calls-her-a-liar
Stephanopoulos: What did you say to the president?

Johnson: I didn’t say anything. I just listened.

Stephanopoulos: But you were upset when you got off the phone.

Johnson: Oh, very upset and hurt. Very. It made me cry even worse.
On Wednesday morning, Wilson told MSNBC's Morning Joe: "But that's not the worst part. She was crying the whole time, and when she hung up the phone, she looked at me and said, 'He didn't even remember his name.' That's the hurting part."
Meanwhile, Bill Curry remembers his meeting with Donald Trump back in the day...

https://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/my-meeting-with-donald-trump-a-damaged-pathetic-personality-whose-obvious-impairment-has-only-gotten-worse/#.Wexs2oWFrFk.facebook

In 1994, I visited the home of Donald Trump. He was a Democrat then, of sorts, and I was the party’s nominee for governor of Connecticut. He’d taken an interest in our state owing to his keen desire to lodge a casino in Bridgeport, an idea I found economically and morally dubious. I had scant hope of enlisting him, but made the trip anyway, thinking that if I convinced him I might win, he’d be less apt to bankroll my opponent.

I arrived at Trump Tower in early evening, accompanied by my finance chair and an old friend and colleague. Stepping off the elevator into his apartment, we were met by a display of sterile, vulgar ostentation: all gold, silver, brass, marble; nothing soft, welcoming or warm. Trump soon appeared and we began to converse, but not really. In campaigns, we candidates do most of the talking; because we like to, and because people ask us lots of questions. Not this time. Not by a long shot.

Trump talked very rapidly and virtually nonstop for nearly an hour; not of my campaign or even of politics, but only of himself, and almost always in the third person. He’d given himself a nickname: "the Trumpster," as in “everybody wants to know what the Trumpster’s gonna do,” a claim he made more than once.

He mostly told stories. Some were about his business deals; others about trips he’d taken or things he owned. All were unrelated to the alleged point of our meeting, and to one another. That he seldom even attempted segues made each tale seem more disconnected from reality than the last. It was funny at first, then pathetic, and finally deeply unsettling.

On the drive home, we all burst out laughing, then grew quiet. What the hell just happened? My first theory, that Trump was high on cocaine, didn’t feel quite right, but he was clearly emotionally impaired: in constant need of approbation; lacking impulse control, self-awareness or awareness of others. We’d heard tales of his monumental vanity, but were still shocked by the sad spectacle of him.

That visit colored all my later impressions of Trump. Over time, his mental health seemed to decline. He threw more and bigger public tantrums; lied more often and less artfully. The media, also in decline and knowing a ratings magnet when it saw one, turned a blind eye. Sensing impunity, Trump revived the racist ‘birther’ lie. In 2011, he told the "Today" show’s Meredith Vieira he had unearthed some dark secrets:

Vieira: You have people now down there searching, I mean in Hawaii?

Trump: Absolutely. And they cannot believe what they’re finding.

As Trump recycled old lies, Vieira had a queasy look but no apparent knowledge of the facts. Of course, there weren’t any. Trump had no proof of Obama being born in Kenya. (Since there is none.) It’s highly doubtful he had any researchers in Hawaii. (It was only after Vieira asked him that he claimed he did.) Later, when Trump's story crumbled, he followed a rule taught by his mentor, Roy Cohn, infamous architect of McCarthyism: Admit nothing. To Trump, a lie is worth a thousand pictures.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
So essentially Clinton paid for research that Trump was breaking the law and it panned out. What exactly is the bombshell here?
 
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