More challenging: Pokemon trainer or coordinator?

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zoombie

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#1
Which do you think is more challenging, a Pokemon trainer or cordinator?

The more I think about it, I think being a coordinator might be more difficult, because getting the proper amount of ribbens the percentege are less in your favor than getting badges. There are no gyms for a cordinator to win ribbens. They have to beat the field to win enough ribbens just to qualify for a Grand Festival.

To win badges, you have to beat a gym leader, key word "a" gym leader. It is one on one battle, 50% chance of success. While to win ribbens, a coordinator has to beat a bunch of coordinators in a tournament.

Also winning in trainer battles is self explanitory, just beat the crap out of the other Pokemon till he is unable to battle, coordinator on the other hand leave the fate in the hands of judeges in the beginning. Though once you get past that, it is easier for a cordinator when they get to one on one matches. With the time limit, if you can get an advantage you can battle defensely and just wait for the clock to run out.

Though what I would love in Best Wishes, is at some point for a trainer and a coordinator to switch places for like a month as part of a bet of which is more challenging. I don't know how they would do that, since the main trainer is still going to be Ash, and Ash's personality is all set already and he is respectful of coordinators. You need a trainer that looks down on coordinator to set the whole thing up. Though maybe the new girl could look down on trainers and set up a bet with Ash, but coordinator is a new thing compared to battling, so it wouldn't make sense for coordinator to look down on trainers. Maybe Ash's new rival and girl's rival could meet and do a bet like that.

In D / P, you could have had Paul and Zoey have a bet like that. I could see Paul looking down on Contest, but I don't see Paul accepting a fun bet and waste his time. Barry on the other hand, he has Paul's arrogance and he would accept that type of bet, he is all about having fun.
 

Gokou Ruri

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#3
Coordinator, definitely. Just seeing all the complex moves they have to do, and thinking up ways to combine attacks and Pokemon (especially in a Double Appeal) takes more creativity than just curbstomping a Gym Leader's Pokemon with a really strong one (not that there isn't any strategy in that, but remember how Ash used his practice as a coordinator in one of his Gym Battles?) It's thinking outside the box.
 

zoombie

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#4
Coordinator, definitely. Just seeing all the complex moves they have to do, and thinking up ways to combine attacks and Pokemon (especially in a Double Appeal) takes more creativity than just curbstomping a Gym Leader's Pokemon with a really strong one (not that there isn't any strategy in that, but remember how Ash used his practice as a coordinator in one of his Gym Battles?) It's thinking outside the box.
I agree, it is hard. You know what it is a shame, that coordinators is stereo type as femine and more for girls. Think of all the male rivals, Drew is the most masculint of them all and he is still a pretty boy. It is more manly and macho to be a trainer than a coordinator.

I still want to see trainer vs coordinator plot, and have coordinator fight to get the respect they deserve. I think coordinator may have a inferority complex, they might be why Zoey was so mad when Nando wanted to do better, maybe she thought here is a trainer that thinks it is so easy to be a coordinator. And Paul angier at Ash for entering the Wallace Cup, maybe he thought how dare he soil himself in that inferior competition. So there were some seeds of trainer vs coordinator in D / P, maybe they can expand on that in Black and White.
 

Light Lucario

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#5
I still want to see trainer vs coordinator plot, and have coordinator fight to get the respect they deserve. I think coordinator may have a inferority complex, they might be why Zoey was so mad when Nando wanted to do better, maybe she thought here is a trainer that thinks it is so easy to be a coordinator. And Paul angier at Ash for entering the Wallace Cup, maybe he thought how dare he soil himself in that inferior competition. So there were some seeds of trainer vs coordinator in D / P, maybe they can expand on that in Black and White.
Those two examples weren't really like the trainer vs.coordinator idea that you've described. Zoey had issues with Nando, along with Ash in Dawn's first Contest, doing both Contests and Gym battles was because she thought that it was a sign that he couldn't decide to focus on one goal to pursue. I believe that was explained once they got to Snowpoint City and gave Zoey a backstory with Candice, the Gym leader. To be fair, considering how her resentment of trainers doing Contests and Gyms suddenly disappeared in time for the Wallace Cup and the idea of people doing multiple goals is apparently bad, I would have preferred something like you mentioned with the whole inferiority complex. At least it would have been a more interesting and deeper explanation for her attitude.

As for Paul, he was surprised to see Ash in a Contest, but not because he thought it was an inferior competition. He had issues with it because Ash went in there trying to make Buizel stronger, just like he went into the Hearthome City Tag Battle tournament in order to make Chimchar stronger. So, he thought Ash was being a hypocrite. Of course, the main difference was that Ash wasn't emotionally and physically abusing Buizel in order to tap into its power and win the Contest battles. It didn't have anything to do with it being a different kind of competition.

Anyway, I think that being a trainer and a Coordinator are challenging roles, but I would have to say that a Coordinator has a few tougher aspects to it than training. With Contests, you have to think of different combos to impress the judges and bring out your Pokemon's beauty. There are a few more trainers to go through in order to get the ribbon, although I believe that increased either during the Kanto or Sinnoh Contests. I think that the main factor that makes Contests a bit more challenging than Gyms is that you only get one shot. Contest halls are always traveling around and if you lose in one place, you can't get that ribbon until it comes around the next year. I'm not sure if that was established with the Sinnoh Contests. Anyway, with Gyms, you can always go back to them in order to rechallenge the Gym Leader until you finally beat them.

Ash still had to think of a strategy for most of his Gym battles in AG and pretty much all of them in DP, but May and Dawn have had a couple of tougher aspects in their goals of becoming top Coordinators.

I'm not sure what I want with the new Coordinator in Best Wishes. I'm still pretty sure that Contests will be in Isshu and Iris will be the new Coordinator in the group. As long as she has a nice personality, I find her more interesting than Dawn and she has interesting Pokemon who have a more equal amount of focus/screentime compared to Dawn's team, I'll be happy. I would like the Contests to be a combination of the Contests in AG and DP. Something like a more frequent use of props and materials in the appeals along with some of the sparkles from DP appeals. I'd like to see more battles handled like they were for most of AG with a bit less of the sparkles/flashyness in DP battles. Possibly changing the time limit or the point system would be nice. Iris having more interesting rivals, or even more characters of the day/week kind of rivals, would be great too.

The idea of a trainer vs. Coordinator plot sounds kind of interesting, but I'm not sure if they could continue it for a long amount of time. Plus, there was that argument Ash and Dawn had about which goal was better in an early episode of DP when they were trying to help Nando decide which goal he wanted to do. That could be taken as shorter and less hostile version of this trainer vs. Coordinator idea.
 

Daxdiv

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#6
I say Coordinator as well, seeing as how you need to think outside the box from time to time to appeal to the judges, and win your battles. With Gym, all you need is the right strategy, and for all you care and the gym leaders know, you can repeat the same strategy time and time again against them, it's not like they go out to bar and talk about this one guy that's been challenging them, and beating them with a specific strategy, especially since in the anime, it's been confirmed time and time again that there are more than the 8 gyms you go to in the games.

Even with Gyms, you can just go to another one or rechallenge the gym if you lose, while with collecting Ribbons in the show, I think it was implied that you have to collect 5 ribbons within a year for you to compete in the region's GF, and considering how there are only a set amount of contests that take place, and I don't think you get another chance in the same town you lost, you need to hurry fast to the next location to collect another ribbon, just so you can get 5 ribbons in total.
 

zoombie

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#7
The idea of a trainer vs. Coordinator plot sounds kind of interesting, but I'm not sure if they could continue it for a long amount of time. Plus, there was that argument Ash and Dawn had about which goal was better in an early episode of DP when they were trying to help Nando decide which goal he wanted to do. That could be taken as shorter and less hostile version of this trainer vs. Coordinator idea.
I am not talking about an arc, just one episode two characters one a trainer and one a coordinator argue on which is harder. They make a bet on who can get a ribben or badge first, the coordinator challenges a gym leader, while the trainer enters a contest. It is sort of like a hidden battle of the sexes. At most it could last two episodes. Like the classic sitcom plot of wife gets a job while husband becomes a house husband.
 

Mr. Hypocrite

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#8
Coordinator definately. It requires both style and substance, as you not only have to defeat your opponent, but look good while doing it. Ash has come to see its value, putting some coordinator-esqe strategies into his arsenal, like the counter shield.
 
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#9
Trainer. Coordinator is about having a good plan ahead, while battling in a cup to be the champion is the roughest endurance match both for you and your Pokemon. Not to mention many of them have stadium changes on the fly, further pushing your ability to strategize on the fly. Experience plays a much bigger role here than a contest, as not only are you familiar with what to expect, but also pace yourself so you don't burn out and have a plan against every situation.
 

Light Lucario

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#10
I say Coordinator as well, seeing as how you need to think outside the box from time to time to appeal to the judges, and win your battles. With Gym, all you need is the right strategy, and for all you care and the gym leaders know, you can repeat the same strategy time and time again against them, it's not like they go out to bar and talk about this one guy that's been challenging them, and beating them with a specific strategy, especially since in the anime, it's been confirmed time and time again that there are more than the 8 gyms you go to in the games.
I don't remember the anime confirming that there are more than eight gyms in its universe on multiple occasions. I do remember seeing made-up badges in an episode from the first season, but I don't believe that we've seen something like in AG or DP.

zoombie said:
I am not talking about an arc, just one episode two characters one a trainer and one a coordinator argue on which is harder. They make a bet on who can get a ribben or badge first, the coordinator challenges a gym leader, while the trainer enters a contest. It is sort of like a hidden battle of the sexes. At most it could last two episodes. Like the classic sitcom plot of wife gets a job while husband becomes a house husband.
Ah, I was under the impression that you were talking about an arc for this idea. Still, we did have that episode, I believe the fourth or fifth one of DP, with Ash and Dawn arguing over which competition was better. Having a Gym battle and a Contest in the same episode would feel really rushed. Two or three episodes would allow for more interesting battles in both fields. It sounds like an interesting idea. I'm not sure if they would go for something like that though. Maybe between Iris and one of Ash's rivals who think that Contests aren't tough could work. I'm not sure if they should or will do something like this, but I am hoping for some more interesting Contests in Isshu. A lot of Contests in Sinnoh weren't that interesting to me.
 
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#11
I don't remember the anime confirming that there are more than eight gyms in its universe on multiple occasions.
Way back in season 1, Team Rocket stole badges from a kid and they were different than the 8 in the game.

Also, Lyra showed different badges when she was introduced.
 

Light Lucario

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#14
Way back in season 1, Team Rocket stole badges from a kid and they were different than the 8 in the game.

Also, Lyra showed different badges when she was introduced.
That actually was the example from season one that I referred to in that post. Now that I think about it, I believe that Gary had some made-up badges too. I don't recall actual anime-only badges in the series beyond season one. What I meant in my original post was that we haven't seen proof that there's more than eight Gyms in one region, at least official Gyms, multiple times throughout each series.

Lyra didn't have made-up badges when she appeared. She had the first two badges from Johto and was going to challenge either Whitney or Morty when she and Kourry returned to Johto.

suss2it said:
Barry also has some badges that are different from the eight badges from the games.
After double checking, that's actually true. I'm surprised I didn't notice that during the episode. Maybe it was because the made-up badges were either similar in shape or color. I thought that they stopped showcasing anime-only badges in game related regions after season one, but I guess that they decided to show them again. My mistake.
 
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#15
Which do you think is more challenging, a Pokemon trainer or cordinator?

The more I think about it, I think being a coordinator might be more difficult, because getting the proper amount of ribbens the percentege are less in your favor than getting badges. There are no gyms for a cordinator to win ribbens. They have to beat the field to win enough ribbens just to qualify for a Grand Festival.

To win badges, you have to beat a gym leader, key word "a" gym leader. It is one on one battle, 50% chance of success. While to win ribbens, a coordinator has to beat a bunch of coordinators in a tournament.

Also winning in trainer battles is self explanitory, just beat the crap out of the other Pokemon till he is unable to battle, coordinator on the other hand leave the fate in the hands of judeges in the beginning. Though once you get past that, it is easier for a cordinator when they get to one on one matches. With the time limit, if you can get an advantage you can battle defensely and just wait for the clock to run out.

Though what I would love in Best Wishes, is at some point for a trainer and a coordinator to switch places for like a month as part of a bet of which is more challenging. I don't know how they would do that, since the main trainer is still going to be Ash, and Ash's personality is all set already and he is respectful of coordinators. You need a trainer that looks down on coordinator to set the whole thing up. Though maybe the new girl could look down on trainers and set up a bet with Ash, but coordinator is a new thing compared to battling, so it wouldn't make sense for coordinator to look down on trainers. Maybe Ash's new rival and girl's rival could meet and do a bet like that.

In D / P, you could have had Paul and Zoey have a bet like that. I could see Paul looking down on Contest, but I don't see Paul accepting a fun bet and waste his time. Barry on the other hand, he has Paul's arrogance and he would accept that type of bet, he is all about having fun.
Personally, I feel that being a coordinator is probably a lot tougher than being a gym trainer. With things like gym battles, those are (typically) at least one-on-one and in most cases, trainers pretty much have a 50/50-shot of actually winning the badge. But with being a coordinator, you not only have to be skilled in battling, you also have to make it look pretty as well, which can be difficult. And even before you can get into the battling-rounds of a Pokémon Contest, you have to make it through the appeals round, and with the appeals-round of any Pokémon Contest or Grand Festival, even if you thought you did well, your chances of getting cut are typically a bit greater than actually moving.
 

Light Lucario

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#16
There's also the issue of how there's only a set amount of Contests before the Grand Festival, so there can be more of a crunch time with getting enough Ribbons in time. There are multiple Gyms within the anime, so if you lose at one Gym, a trainer can either train harder for a rematch or just go to a different one. A Coordinator would have to go to a different Contest if they lose in one, but with only a certain amount of Contests available before the Grand Festival, they wouldn't have as much time to work on getting the requirements.

Reading my older posts, it's funny that I thought Iris would be more interesting than Dawn. I was way too hard on Dawn during DP's run and she has become my favorite female lead in the anime after rewatching the series a couple of times. After rewatching BW, Iris is still easily the worst aspect of that series for me. I also miss Contests immensely. I still say that the anime lost something really important once they removed Contests and they've never found a good replacement for them.
 

PapaGreg

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#17
Probably Coordinater, the only thing Pokemon trainers is have to worry about is beating the crap out of their opponents pokemon with Contests its not only making sure your Pokemon looks good but also what you feed them, what they look like and sometimes what you look like.
I also miss Contests immensely. I still say that the anime lost something really important once they removed Contests and they've never found a good replacement for them.
I personally don't care for them and thought they got in the way of the Pokemon battles. Serena's are the only one I liked and thats because X and Y had great animation at the time
 
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Light Lucario

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#18
I personally don't care for them and thought they got in the way of the Pokemon battles. Serena's are the only one I liked and thats because X and Y had great animation at the time
I never thought that they got in the way of traditional Pokemon battles. Ash's Gym matches were still the main focus and Contests were just another kind of way to have a Pokemon battle. Both Ash and Dawn were inspired by each other's battling styles throughout DP, so Contests only enhanced Ash's battles, or at least some of them, during that series. It also gave the female leads something to do, which was definitely appreciated after Misty didn't do a lot to progress through her goal. None of the other female leads since then have had particularly engaging goals, so I do think that the anime lost out on a lot by getting rid of Contests. They had to do it because they weren't featured in the games, but it is still a huge shame in my opinion. Contests only adding more battling to the anime as far as I'm concerned.

Serena's Showcases weren't Contests though. They were definitely inspired by them, but Showcases were just a seriously watered down version of Contests. There was no battling and virtually little skill. Getting three Princess keys was ridiculously easy, to the point where I'm pretty sure the vast majority of background Performers shown in the Master Class Showcase were featured in other regular Showcases. Despite XY trying to make a big deal about becoming Kalos Queen and getting to the Master Class, it never seemed like a particularly hard goal. It was basically a flashy Pokemon popularity/beauty contest. It didn't matter if someone had better overall talent. If the crowd liked a certain performance more, then they would win regardless of talent.

Serena's performances were often pretty nice visually, but that wasn't enough to make them stand out to me or make Showcases anything more than the poor man version's of Pokemon Contests. Contests definitely had flashy moves with a lot of sparkles too, but there was a lot more strategy and skills presented in them, especially when Coordinators still had to battle instead of just dancing along a stage. Even most of Serena's rivals used the same basic routine throughout their performances with little to no variations on them.
 

CyberCubed

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#19
I personally don't care for them and thought they got in the way of the Pokemon battles. Serena's are the only one I liked and thats because X and Y had great animation at the time
PapaGreg, is that you from the technodrome? lol

In any case how did they get in the way of battling when they brought more battling in the show and aside from Ash's usual Gyms, etc...most of the other travel companions barely ever battle? The fact that DP was one of the most battle-centric series of the anime and it had the most fleshed out Contest arc says a lot. May's Contest arc also focused more on traditional battling since the Contests in AG weren't that differentiated from normal battles yet, and May felt like the closest thing we had to a main female battler on the cast.