MGM Cartoons version differences discussion

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Cool_Cat

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Mar 20, 2015
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Just like I did it with Looney Tunes, these are the prints of MGM shorts aired in Italy. Sadly I do not have much info outside of Tom and Jerry.

So, first of all, it looks like MGM shorts were dubbed for theaters back then. I have no idea which ones, but it seems to me Deputy Droopy and Little Johnny Jet were theatrical dubs, judging by the quality.

Then shorts were dubbed for RAI in the same way Looney Tunes shorts were. I've only seen Tom and Jerry shorts, and depending on the title style they were dubbed in different times.

I think these were the oldest ones. They generally have a bad audio quality, and they do not use the m/e track. Instead they use cues from other shorts to cover the dialogues. This version of Sufferin Cats is still aired by Italia 1 somehow.



Then the second batch of dubs had these titles. They do not use the m/e track and mute the audio on dialogues.



Then the third batch just had the voice translating the title and they use the m/e track.

There's another batch which doesn't use voices at all, and has the same titles as some of the Looney Tunes dubs. Quiet Please and Neapolitan Mouse were part of this batch, and they were not dubbed. The majority of the Chuck Jones shorts belong to this one.



I have no idea if they made dubs for RAI for the non Tom and Jerry shorts, because I've never seen them.

MGM U/A released in the 80s various tapes from the UK. They left the Tom and Jerry tapes in English, but dubbed the two Droopy ones and 3 MGM Cartoon ones at the same time they did with some pre 48 Looney Tunes release. These dubs were really done on cheap.

Still speaking of VHS dubs, Warner Home Video in the 90s (which had rights for the Turner library distribution in Italy before the merge), released 3 Tom and Jerry tapes also released in the UK and 3 Tex Avery tapes all with new dubs.

In the 90s Rai 2 kept airing the oldest dub prints for T&J, but I've seen a couple shorts remuxed with the same titles as the Looney Tunes ones. I mean, a frozen shot with the Italian title below. I've seen Smitten Kitten and The Mouse from H.U.N.G.E.R like this, but there may be more. I'll check next time.



Then I've seen on Italia 1 shorts with the Italian audio muxed on really old prints. They show occasionally, probably by accident.

Warner Home Video in the late 90s released 3 Tom and Jerry tapes which used the NTSC prints sped up to 25 fps (with heavy DVNR) and the Italian dubs. On The Truce Hurts the audio went out of sync on the censored scene for 30 seconds. Sufferin Cats was a new dub, which sounds like it was done at the same time as the new ones of Tot Watchers and The Vanishing Duck were made.

Then when Cartoon Network Italy launched, they were using the exact same prints as the UK, with some short having Italian audio. The majority of them was only in English though. These versions had black bars on the sides and dot crawl.

Then the FTA channels got new muxes which used the Italian audio (often in bad shape, with audio compression and glitches very often, like at the beginning of Downhearted Duckling), on the Turner prints with heavy dot crawl, as they were taken from an old magnetic tape format, and they had a frozen shot with a translated title, this time replacing the original one. These muxes were really badly done in general, they even forgot to sync the audio on Down Beat Bear and other shorts. 3 non MGM shorts were included in this package, they all had English audio anyway.



Then Quiet Please, Puss Gets the Boot, Dog Trouble, and probably some other MGM cartoon got redubbed, and after that it looks like they synced the audio from the muxes above with the raw Turner prints, as Boomerang replaced some short with these somewhere in 2009. I've also seen them on RSI La 1, even though they're known for muxing the audio themselves so I can't be certain.

Busy Buddies and Down Beat Bear were apparently redubbed over the Spotlight versions when the Greatest Chases series continued.

Then in 2007 WHV released two Droopy DVDs in Italy. This is when I start to get confused. Two shorts sound to me they were dubbed in the late 80s (Dumb Hounded and Wild and Woolfy), some were from the MGM U/A VHS dubs, one was an old dub (which sounds to me a theatrical dub). Many of them though had clearly recent dubs, with the same voice cast as Droopy Master Detective and Tom & Jerry Kids. These dubs though had the dialogues badly equalized (bass was too loud).

When WHV in 2009 released the Academy Awards collection, these were the shorts (not including the T&J ones which were taken from the remuxes I talked about before):

-The Milky Way: same as Dumb Hounded
-The Dot and the Line: new dub with loud bass
-Peace on Earth: same as Dumb Hounded
-Blitz Wolf: same as The Dot and the Line, in this case I can confirm this was done on the Turner print due to the edits
-Little Johnny Jet: 80% it's a theatrical dub
-Good Will to Men: same as The Dot and the Line

Interestingly So Much for So Little and Now Hear This have the same dub with the loud bass, so I need to investigate more on those.

With this said, I first need to get this on both DVD and VHS (the VHS apparently uses the theatrical dub of The Night Before Christmas, and I'll give more info):
 
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Charly9631

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Daffyrocks

"I'm Daffy the Gaucho!"
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Hmm... Odd to see that MGM logo in this episode. I usually thought, that with that MGM logo, the end card should be bigger tho.
That's because they just took the red MGM logo and put it over the remastered reissue print of "Heavenly Puss". This apparently happens on every TV airing of this remastered short.
 
Nov 15, 2009
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I wasn't sure if this was appropriate to post on this thread at first, but since the Pink Panther's distributor, United Artists, is currently acquired by MGM, why not? Here's a little print version comparison to a Pink Panther cartoon (specifically, his debut short entitled "The Pink Phink").



A. 1969 TV print (from a Polish network TVRip)
B. 1980s WGN syndicated TV print (from a Russian network TVRip)
C. Mid/late 90s VHS print (from a TV Cultura TVRip)
D. Current DVD print (from the Pink Panther Classic Cartoon Collection DVD set)
 
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Aug 14, 2016
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I made mock 'restorations' of a few T&J shorts. What do you think?
(Turner print) IMG_9149.jpg (My version) IMG_9150.JPG (Turner print) IMG_9158.jpg (My version) IMG_9165.JPG (Turner print) IMG_9189.jpg (My version) IMG_9203.JPG
 

Charly9631

Please don't eat me!
Aug 2, 2017
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Anyone here still have an alternative print of The Flying Sorceress that starts with e red Tanner Lion Logo ? So far I only found 1 picture of that print but it was recorded pretty poorly. CN and Boomerang SE Asia used to broadcast this rare NTSC print on television. 3f8f4fe42e2499c5249c84144e3a6335.jpg
 

Daffyrocks

"I'm Daffy the Gaucho!"
Jul 22, 2014
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Anyone here still have an alternative print of The Flying Sorceress that starts with e red Tanner Lion Logo ? So far I only found 1 picture of that print but it was recorded pretty poorly. CN and Boomerang SE Asia used to broadcast this rare NTSC print on television. View attachment 118662
I can't find it. Sorry
 

Daffyrocks

"I'm Daffy the Gaucho!"
Jul 22, 2014
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Thanks :)

And those pan-and-scans are almost identical to the Turner versions. Also, in my opinion this was a smart move in order to make fake Academy Aspect Ratio versions of these T&J cartoons, which are slightly better in my opinion than letting the opening and end sequences in the original format, leaving people to confusions. These versions would have been way better than the Turner versions of the Cinemascope shorts, by leaving everything in 4:3 and making the Academy Aspect ratio illusion more clear.
 

Cool_Cat

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So, this is the history of how the Cinemascope shorts got treated:

-The first prints MGM sent to TVs were pretty much all stretched to the Academy Ratio. For an example the Italian dubs of Tom's Photo Finish and The Vanishing Duck used those.
-Then MGM sent prints with Pan & Scan, but they cut the titles of the stretched versions into the reel. Sometimes they cut into the reel the normal MGM Lion. That transfer of The Flying Sorceress I posted was from the one made on film, in fact all the shots are the same as the old Italian version (except the lion card).
-Then they made new transfers off the actual Cinemascope films with virtual Pan & Scan.

I have a feeling the Turner version of Pet Peeve could have been taken from a rare stretched version, because I don't remember digital shot movements and such.