"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)

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GM_Comand

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I found the episode enjoyable, and the lighthearted tone a nice break since the last few episodes had been kind of dark. Also, the fight between Captain Marvel and Thor was fun too. Though I wonder why Carol was pinned by Mjollnir since in this universe I don’t think it would have if he be worthy enchantment on it because Thor didn’t piss Odin off by antagonizing the Frost Giants and risking another war.
 
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Frontier

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WHAT IF... continues to disappoint with an episode "What if Thor was an idiot Frat Boy". Such beautiful animation, such abysmal writing.
To be honest it feels like they've been depicting Thor as a "frat boy" in the movies since Ragnarok :(.
I found the episode enjoyable, and the lighthearted tone a nice break since the last few episodes had been kind of dark. Also, the fight between Captain Marvel and Thor was fun too. Though I wonder why Carol was pinned by Mjollnir since in this universe I don’t think it would have if he be worthy enchantment on it because Thor didn’t piss Odin off by antagonizing the Frost Giants and risking another war.
Well, Mjolnir was hard enough to actually hurt her so it's possible Uru might be too heavy even for her.
 

bigdaddy313

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WHAT IF... continues to disappoint with an episode "What if Thor was an idiot Frat Boy". Such beautiful animation, such abysmal writing.
Don’t say that LOL I love this episode.

The next one I speculate is set in the future with Black Widow and Hawkeye survivors from the future of Ultrons and then Multiverse Avengers.
 

Roxas_Sora

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Who would have though that Thor getting rid of Loki would turn him into such a jerk? It's true what they say, everything in the world needs balance.
 

RoyalRubble

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Watch a new What If...? episode today on Disney+!
whatif_card.jpg

Marvel's What If...?
Season 1, Episode 8
- What If Ultron Won?
Episode Debut
- September 29, 2021

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Yojimbo

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The premise of the episode aside, I was floored to see the Galactus nod at the 23 min. mark!!! Also, intriguing they revealed an out for how Zola can return granted they didn't destroy the Siberia base post-Civil War.

It was almost farcical how easily and quickly Ultron killed Thanos and took the rest of the stones. And on the flip side, they came with a tragic way how an AU Hawkeye would sacrifice himself in contrast to what happens in Endgame with Widow and the Soul Stone.

I was surprised Ross Marquand did Ultron's voice. Wonder if they asked Spader and/or he declined.
 
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Neo Ultra Mike

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"What If.... Ultron Won?" - Quite honestly I'm trying to think if I had any legit problems with this episode. I guess a couple of jokes like the Mee-Maw line weren't that funny though at least one didn't really have a tonal issue (more on that later) so it was a pretty minor problem. I do wonder if this goes on too long if the ability to kill whoever they want in these alternate universes will get old since this is the 4th time we've seen Tony Stark die on screen but it doesn't bother me now. I mean I could be really nitpicky and say stuff like "shouldn't Xandar be in much worse shape considering Alpha Ultron only came there after Infinity War when they should be more decimated" and "Alpha Ultron was so easily able to take out Thanos when he had almost the full gauntlet yet Captain Marvel was able to get some shots on him before he wiped her" but even that last one is one of those "yeah it's clear Alpha Ultron was surprised by that unlike Thanos plus obviously wanted to blow her up at the planet's core anyway" so that isn't even a plot hole. Just again super nitpicking because not really any other issues I really have with this one.

I admit though this one has just one of those tropes I do actually love which is what makes me such a fan of this one; the old "super powerful incredible being who just sits and observes on the sidelines because they can't interfere is found out and smacked down and called out for his actions." I admit I didn't know we were going to get that with this story; I kind of thought Alpha Ultron was just going to hear The Watcher's voice (And as the Watcher obviously sees through many differing realities at his own time he obviously decided to watch this universe once he saw Alpha Ultron from last episode even though Alpha Ultron would of only come to that universe after the Watcher knew about him... again guessing the Watcher operates under TVA logic of how the time stream works and with multiple universes I totally buy that) and that was going to sort of eat at his concious for a bit and he tried just watching other realities but saw Alpha Ultron keep popping into them before deciding to do something. But instead Alpha Ultron sees him and even breaks into his circle which yeah was not expecting. I know Uatu is technically our "star" of this series but he seemed to be the kind of narrator you don't really see in action but oh no we certainly got that. And considering the guy's power makes total sense why Alpha Ultron would actually be at first sort of challenged or be able to be knocked around by him. I admit I thought it'd be boring at first seeing these low tier god level beings just have a fist fight but then having it go through differnt realities and each time Alpha Ultron punched Uatu he was going into a different universe really showed the scope of this fight. I also love how Alpha Ultron was mocking him. And though some of it were obvious jokes (the creepy vouyeur line did feel like classic Tony Stark turned Ultron line) I also appreciate just him totally throwing it in this guy's face "all you do with your great power is see these universes and just observe how pathetic". Like yeah Alpha Ultron's messed up and twisted but at least in his own eyes he's doing something to end suffering and is at least following his programming while Watcher is just well watching. And trying that whole "I can't interfene" act espeically after how desperately he wanted to show Clint those files earlier really kind of throws in his face how kind of pointless or at least in need of an upgrade this whole philosophy of his is. I admit I also hope this is what happens in Eternals because these guys of such epically high levels who make these pledges having the tables turned on them is one of those tropes I love. And yeah appreciate that ending with Dr. Strange Supreme making the Watcher admit "okay yeah I messed up too." Like Strange Supreme obviously knows his mistake but obviously the Watcher isn't totally innocent so I appreciate that being brought up.

Also major props to Ross Marquad here. I kind of thought at first they had gotten like at least James Spader archive lines since I heard he didn't come back to play Ultron here since it did seem like him. The more you heard the more you could tell it wasn't exactly Ultron from the movies but really really close. Between this and Red Skull guy does have mad talent for being able to mimic MCU baddies without I doubt many being able to tell the difference. And I do appreciate showcasing just how scary a threat Ultron was. Like in the movie sure he was dangerous but he killed... at most two people we knew about and wrecked only a major city which though still terrible did as many point out make it seem like a couple of days long age. Here though thanks to getting that body he ends the heavy hitter Avengers and actually does what Apocalypse SHOULD have done in X-Men Apocalypse; taking control of all the world's nukes to actually nuke the world. Like I heard there was one feature a nearly destroyed world but actually seeing it is a different thing. Then seeing him go around taking out Thanos and Asgard and Sakaar and Xandar so quickly just really builts him up as a threat. Which makes sense since yeah in the comics Ultron was able to conquer like an entire galaxy pretty quickly so take one with all the stones (I imagine Thanos came alone because in this world he knew of the two stones on Earth but was more able to sneakily take the ones one Xandar and Asgard then in the movies... again I can buy it as that's a small detail that probably isn't most important to flesh out) and I get him decimating the universe. And of course with a program that far gone he isn't going to simply realize "hey after wiping out live on all reality what would I do then" and just do it as he feels that's his purpose and yeah seeing him take out and beat around all of these powered beings really does hype him up as a serious threat.

And I do like how the key to beating him is through out thinking him from the least most powerful members of the original team. Though Alpha Ultron vs Uatu was probably the action highlight this did have a boss ending with Nat driving avoiding those drones with Clint shooting them with his arrows and her even taking out a couple with her motorcycle and him using invisibility and his own arrow to hit through them. And though these two banter and joke throughout this mission... it's not done in an over the top or distracting way really. Since we're not getting a lot of especially silly or out there jokes like referencing the Baba Yaga myth or zombie survival videos or Scott being able to shut up with the dad jokes. The banter is kept to stuff like "you know I don't do puns" or talking about how the Russians don't really have hard copy files on certain things or "aren't you going to feel stupid now that I found our solution "It was in my box" or Clint threatening Zola with bleach on his main hard drive or "this may hurt for a couple seconds... or not I don't exactly know how pain works for you" or them knocking out the legs of the one with Zola in it obviously not trusting him to walk on his own. It felt much more natural plus we know these two and their characters so it makes sense for them to banter like this (I think Black Widow is a bit more quippier here in this show then in the movies but not by much plus Widow probably feels the need to be the jokier one to someone whose much more serious) and it does feel like they address the more serious moments. Like Clint for a second giving up after everything they lost or even his sacrifice at the end obviously homaging Endgame but in the reverse. I admit once I saw that net of Ultrons I knew one of them was going to die but I appreciate it being Clint and him going out with that explosive arrow. I also really like the idea of them trying to out think Ultron by uploading the Zola Virus into his units while he's away which is some nice out of the box thinking but makes sense and would work if you know Alpha Ultron wasn't busy invading other universes.


So yeah pretty clear that next time we're going to see Uatu Watcher gather the various heroes from the What Ifs we've been watching to form a team to take on this Alpha Ultron while that specific Zola is gathered to short him out and stop him but that should still be a lot of fun getting to see the various worlds interact. And between the fun of seeing Uatu's whole watcher speil thrown back at him to that actual fight and Clint and Nat sneaking around on earth just a really good enjoyable episode. Again if this one sticks the landing this may overall be the best IMHO of the streaming shows. Falcon and the Winter Solider is so far the best but this doesn't have the drag of other longer form series and better highlights throughout so just need to stick that landing which i have faith they will.
 

Frontier

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Who knew the literal Age of Ultron would also lead to the possible end of the Multiverse :sweat:?

Man, the action was pretty phenomenal and fluid in this episode, from Hawkeye and Widow fighting the drones to Ultron vs. Uatu :cool:.

Look at everyone's circa AoU costumes! Thor has his beard, even! I think those were accurate, at least, aside from Widow who seems like she was missing her tron lines :confused:.

All respect to Ross Marquand....but he's no James Spader any more than Jim Meskimen was, so Ultron's voice really didn't do it for me here. On the plus side, the mask not covering his Vision mouth actually resembled Ultron's classic face more than the movie version did :).

General Ross cameo, just in case you feel like Ross needed more karma in this show :rolleyes2:.

Never thought this story would require Natasha to return to her homeland, but she looks good with the Red Guardian shield! Alexei would be proud :proud:.

Wow, that was a pretty anti-climactic Thanos appearance. If it was that simple couldn't Vision have biscally bisected him or would normal Vision have been too "nice" to do that? How did he get the Power Stone if it seems like the Guardians still happened? Do they keep re-using his design without the armor because that's the only one they have a model for :rolleyes:.?

So Carol watched Terminator and Natasha loves Raiders of the Lost Ark. True women of culture ;).

Well, Ultron ends up going through the Marvel Cosmic Universe and killing a lot of name characters...the Guardians, Ego (kind of deserves it), Grandmaster, Korg, Miek, and he's about to finish Xandar when Carol shows up. Where was she when Thanos destroyed it? Also I guess even Carol couldn't face off against someone with all the Infinity Stones at their grasp :eek:.

So it turns Uatu screwed over the Multiverse because, just when Ultron is beginning to realize the futility of completing his mission, Uatu keeps narrating and Ultron with the Infinity Stones has enough cosmic awareness to hear him and then discover there are more universes to destroy. Uatu, you done goofed :oops:.

Who would have thought the key to stopping Ultron would be the Arnim Zola AI that was apparently stashed away in the Siberia base this whole time? Does this mean Zola really is still out there, somehow? And will this be as simple as Uatu grabbing this version of Natasha and Zola to finish Ultron :ack:?

A direct parallel to Natasha's sacrifice in Endgame where Clint's the one who lets go and sacrifices himself :(.

Seeing Uatu get to actually fight and battle Ultron across the Multiverse was pretty cool, especially the moment where they land in the world of President Steve and Ultron punches Uatu into different dimensions :D.

Welp, time for Uatu to enlist the help of Supreme Strange and the Multiversal Avengers to stop Ultron, who is very much not part of the natural order of things. Although somehow I get the feeling Supreme Strange might try to screw him over somehow...
 

JoeMabbon

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Well, it was a much needed breather episode after four downbeat episodes in a row.
As well as coming right before this episode.

Although somehow I get the feeling Supreme Strange might try to screw him over somehow...
Maybe it'll be like a South Park episode. They'll realize that on the question of multiversal interference, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
 

Yojimbo

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Also, that place the Watcher was based. Could it be the Panoptichron?

EDIT: Nevermind, it appears to be the Nexus of All Realities. Notably name dropped by Selvig in Dark World when he was at his chalkboard in the asylum.

Anybody else notice the name Charles Xavier in the files?
I think that was debunked. Still looking for a source.
 
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Medinnus

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I do wonder if we're eventually going to see the other Watchers get involved/react to what Uatu is doing...
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but...

* The TVA operated from the end of time/outside the time stream, yes? They stopped functioning at some point in their linear past, but up until that point in time (TVA relative) there was no multiverse, because they ruthlessly shut down multiverse spawning, correct?

* From the TVA perspective, the Infinity Stones were essentially useless and considered valuable only as paperweights.

* Once they stopped enforcement, multiple timelines came into being, and the basis of WHAT IF... was born. Is that accurate, as far as it goes?

* If so, then What if Season 1 Ep 1 is as far back as they have shown multiple timelines to exist, but there is no reason to assume that the effectiveness of the TVA pruning was ever authoritative, but it too was relative to the framework/specific multiverse containing the TVA; there were clearly time points in which the TVA was either (a) ineffective and/or (b) outside their notice (and hence authority).

* Given that, the idea that Ultron, powered with the Infinity Stones, which several "players" have said or shown not to be all powerful, could easily stop Ultron from passing the multiple multiverse threshold and while Ultron may have been successful in one, he could not have really evolved to be a multiverse-level threat.

I enjoyed the episode as far as it went, but it dismays me when writers forget the cul-de-sacs others have spun them into. This is especially a problem when writing about time as a plot McGuffin...and why it should be avoided.
 

Frontier

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Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but...

* The TVA operated from the end of time/outside the time stream, yes? They stopped functioning at some point in their linear past, but up until that point in time (TVA relative) there was no multiverse, because they ruthlessly shut down multiverse spawning, correct?

* From the TVA perspective, the Infinity Stones were essentially useless and considered valuable only as paperweights.

* Once they stopped enforcement, multiple timelines came into being, and the basis of WHAT IF... was born. Is that accurate, as far as it goes?

* If so, then What if Season 1 Ep 1 is as far back as they have shown multiple timelines to exist, but there is no reason to assume that the effectiveness of the TVA pruning was ever authoritative, but it too was relative to the framework/specific multiverse containing the TVA; there were clearly time points in which the TVA was either (a) ineffective and/or (b) outside their notice (and hence authority).

* Given that, the idea that Ultron, powered with the Infinity Stones, which several "players" have said or shown not to be all powerful, could easily stop Ultron from passing the multiple multiverse threshold and while Ultron may have been successful in one, he could not have really evolved to be a multiverse-level threat.

I enjoyed the episode as far as it went, but it dismays me when writers forget the cul-de-sacs others have spun them into. This is especially a problem when writing about time as a plot McGuffin...and why it should be avoided.
Somebody should get Kang on this :p.
 

Rick Jones

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The thought of how much Ivo's Android from the Justice League series advanced used to bug me. This advanced Ultron is so much more freaky to me. It's like he achieved a power-up from an anime like Dragon Ball Z or Gurren Laggan or something, and now he wants to use it to wipe out all life ever. Thanos seems so much more reasonable in comparison.

I don't know if there's a way you can beat a guy that slices Thanos in half on a whim or eats whole realities other than maybe tricking him into beating himself. His plans to destroy everything also made me think of Owlman from Crisis on Two Earths. It also brings to mind one of my favorite episodes from the old Dungeons & Dragons series where the kids accidentally summon this being who is like the evil equivalent of an omnipotent God and there is no way you can beat him and you just have to try and survive by staying a few steps ahead of his destruction. I really can't imagine how they win.

Was Party Thor from the same universe as Ultron?

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I really hope there are more survivors than just Black Widow and the Zola drone.

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Yojimbo

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Was Party Thor from the same universe as Ultron?
No, I think the show broke it's own canon already. Because in Ultron Supreme's AU, there was a 'regular' AU Thor among the fallen before Ultron blows up Tony and the place. And at the end of last week's, he's already Ultron Supreme but then it doesn't make sense with Uatu's surprised reaction as he narrates the end of that one because he already encountered Ultron Supreme before he started traveling across the Multiverse.

EDIT: I guess the only way it fits is the ending of Party Thor episode is between this week and next week's episode. While scouting recruits, Uatu can't help but monologue then is shocked of all places, Ultron Supreme arrives (although retroactively, it's a reaction of surprise, a not a reaction of seeing Ultron Supreme for the first time).
 
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Frontier

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No, I think the show broke it's own canon already. Because in Ultron Supreme's AU, there was a 'regular' AU Thor among the fallen before Ultron blows up Tony and the place. And at the end of last week's, he's already Ultron Supreme but then it doesn't make sense with Uatu's surprised reaction as he narrates the end of that one because he already encountered Ultron Supreme before he started traveling across the Multiverse.

EDIT: I guess the only way it fits is the ending of Party Thor episode is between this week and next week's episode. While scouting recruits, Uatu can't help but monologue then is shocked of all places, Ultron Supreme arrives (although retroactively, it's a reaction of surprise, a not a reaction of seeing Ultron Supreme for the first time).
I've seen someone speculate it's a time loop where seeing Ultron Supreme interrupt Party Thor's universe made Uatu go back and observe/narrate Ultron Supreme's world to figure out how it happened and he inadvertantly set him loose and invading other world's.
 

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