"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)

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Frontier

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If it's known, what do we know about with the 4 episodes are left this season? From the trailer I think there's party Thor, Kilmonger is king of Wakanda, and something with Ultron - he wins?
As well as what would have happened if Tony was on Sakaar...
 

RoyalRubble

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It's time once again for #WhatIfWednesday!
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Marvel's What If...?
Season 1, Episode 6
- What If Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
Episode Debut
- September 15, 2021

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We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

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Neo Ultra Mike

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"What If... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?" - I don't know if I would call this the best episode. Since it didn't have the biggest laughs or best drama or even coolest action, but this is by far the best episode because of it's structure and tone. I've been hard on the last few What Ifs because of needing to adhere to having a few too many moments of comedy and levity when things should be more dramatic or dour but that is not the case here. Yeah we have some jokes in the beginning but they feel not only right due to the attitude of the scene but the fact it was more Tony focused at the time where yeah you would be expecting quips. But the later half of this really didn't have any because it was much more Eric/Killmonger focused so you didn't really feel the need to jokes as they took the scenes that needed to seriously (such as him first seeing Wakanda or even first going to the ancestral plane) without feeling the need for jab or bits. Honestly if I had one problem it might of been the ending. Not because it didn't make sense because yeah Shuri's been established as a super genius (BTW you can really tell they didn't get her and Pepper's actor back but not in a distracting enough way. Though I have a feeling Lettita might of been busy while Paltrow just probably said nor something heh heh) so I can buy her being able to hack through the back up Jarvis program to find out about Erik since yeah she would be distrustful of him and get her wanting to make an agreement with Pepper. I think this is a case where having a bit more of a hopeful ending away from Erik's perspective kind of killed the vibe of the rest of the episode which was more his story. And quite honestly since What Ifs don't need to end on hopeful or good endings (in fact most of them don't as the biggest ones so far were Captain Carter because that was pretty much Steve's ending and Episode 3 which still ended with the rest of the Avengers dead) I don't know if we needed a reminded of "those who died will inspire those still alive to do the right thing" but honestly the rest really worked for me. Mostly because the rest of this was focused on Killmonger, an awesome villain this series certainly used to his advantage.

This though uses him differently then the BP film. And I don't just mean because of what his plan with or who he's interacting with, but rather what the focus is. Since in the movie you have more time to build pathos as well as his anger and ferocity and really pack up his point thus why T'Challa realizes he was right about Wakanda not just being able to sit back anymore. Here well the show assumes you know the movie so though it doesn't flat out ignore that struggle or theme (in fact the most powerful line here is when Erik said to Tony "See that's the difference between you don't me; you DON'T see a difference between you and me" right before he gutted him) the focus is more on his intellect and cunning and how easily he can play both sides and though is a really good fighter, his biggest gift is just how well he can read the room to get the play he wants from who he wants it. And honestly I just love the kind of three steps ahead villain who are always formulating new plans within plans and and improvise well even when things go wrong and can act perfectly understanding on the side they're on even seemingly "getting" why people may not like him. Such as him being so buddy buddy with Tony but getting why Pepper would have problems with him or trying to appease to Rhodey but just shooting him when he doesn't get he's on the wrong side and having killed both him and T'Challa to use that to frame both sides to fight this war against one another. And then having this massive drone army made but seemingly leaving it behind when he goes into Wakanda and then getting them to let in and reactiviating it just to prove himself as a warrior and why Wakanda needs to push more directly against hostile invaders and really appeasing to both Ramonda and T'Chaka. Just really shows how incredibly cunning and manipulative the guy was and the fact we get to focus on that is so great. And honestly again though that is the focus I do like how there is humanity to him as I do believe him when he says he didn't want to kill Tony and yeah he obviously is happy to be back in Wakanda so he's not just a "manipulator for the sake of it" but rather to his own twisted ends. And major props to Michael B Jordan because yeah this would not work nearly as well if it wasn't him reprising this role. Some actors again fine with replacing but if the What If team couldn't get him back the power of this one would be cut and so glad it wasn't.

And again though this one didn't have the best comedy or action they were still really well used elements when they did pop up. I like Happy Hogan grumbling about not getting the promotion that Erik got or always thinking something was wrong with Stane. I also like how since Tony didn't go through that character arc he is much more flippish with people as seen in that interview about building better robots or about making the whole army (especially like the "well if it fails we at least made the most expensive fake gundam" line) or even smugly having a drink while Erik is fighting that robotic drone. Klaw is still amusing pointing out how glad he is Rhodey is serious talking about Tony spending 10 million plus just being a Tuesday for him before showing him more of the vibranium or talking about how paranoid Wakandians can be. And hey it was still massively cool seeing how quickly T'Challa Black Panther took out those soldiers (I forget if he also recorded for season 2 as well but Chadwick seems to be the MVP of this first season in terms of the original actor recording multiple appearances since yeah he's on his third while everyone else is more one or two if they did come back) before Killmonger took him out with that sonic weapon. And Killmonger spinning around the spear and chucking it to take on the drone was really cool. And yeah though nothing spectacular that final fight with those vibranium drones at the end was really good. Loved seeing Eric, Okoye and even Ramonda in action using their spears to tear apart those machines and fight together and separately on the battlefield.

So yeah despite being a bit hesitant on the ending otherwise great ep. Mostly because of how cunning and well used Killmonger here and this being his story playing both sides to get what he wants. As much as the ending of the first BP with him makes sense this does show why people were so bummed he wouldn't be around for further sequels but glad Marvel found a way to use him to tell another great story in another world where he got to win... I guess till that ending but again rest of it was him owning through his charm and cunning and that was all great stuff.
 

Yojimbo

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Yes, like a lot of the episodes, it's doing great then... just ends.

I also really liked this episode. It was surprising that Killmonger was in the same general area of where Tony was ambushed by the Ten Rings in IM1. And basically by choosing to deviate from his mission and save Tony, had a more successful outcome than what happened in the events of BP1. It's got crazy how dominoes just fell with no Iron Man being created, Stane being arrested early on, Tony being killed off, Ross appropriating Stark Industries with the Patriot Act, Rhodes being killed off in a version of the AOU scene, T'Challa being killed off with the sound device Stane used in IM1, a similar big fight in Wakanda, Killmonger infiltrating the ranks ever so cunningly. A lovely bonus to see Ramonda in action as well as the Avengers group shot and the Endgame sacrifice.

I'm thinking Shuri taking it to herself to go to the outside world to find an ally and deal with her country's "infestation" could hint at what Coogler has planned for Wakanda Forever and/or Kingdom of Wakanda though of course a different threat.
 

Funkatron

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Yes, like a lot of the episodes, it's doing great then... just ends.

I also really liked this episode. It was surprising that Killmonger was in the same general area of where Tony was ambushed by the Ten Rings in IM1. And basically by choosing to deviate from his mission and save Tony, had a more successful outcome than what happened in the events of BP1. It's got crazy how dominoes just fell with no Iron Man being created, Stane being arrested early on, Tony being killed off, Ross appropriating Stark Industries with the Patriot Act, Rhodes being killed off in a version of the AOU scene, T'Challa being killed off with the sound device Stane used in IM1, a similar big fight in Wakanda, Killmonger infiltrating the ranks ever so cunningly. A lovely bonus to see Ramonda in action as well as the Avengers group shot and the Endgame sacrifice.

I'm thinking Shuri taking it to herself to go to the outside world to find an ally and deal with her country's "infestation" could hint at what Coogler has planned for Wakanda Forever and/or Kingdom of Wakanda though of course a different threat.
I definitely think there is a part two. One of the trailers had young Shuri and I think Pepper in the heat of battle, which I think is part of the continuation of this episode. I think a lot of these episodes are setting up sequels
 

Frontier

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Who knew Tony Stark not getting his character development would doom both Wakanda and himself? All because Killmonger became his new best friend :oops:.

It must be so surreal for Mick Wingert to have started out being a recasting for Adrian Pasdar as Iron Man on Avengers Assemble because he can do a decent RDJ impression only to get to actually play the proper RDJ Iron Man in this cartoon and get to actually voice scenes RDJ was in and even do the "I. Am. Iron Man." moment from Endgame animated here. I also think his Tony voice has grown considerably from when he started :).

I'm glad this episode didn't make any apologies for Killmonger. He seems like a genuine and upstanding guy on the surface but beyond that he is utterly manipulative and out for ultimately himself. He talks about fighting back against the oppressors but all he really does is use people, kill good men, and in the end is just trying to throw his own personal rage at his childhood and father's death at the world. T'Challa basically called him out on it in the ancestral plane :mad:.

I wonder if it was deliberate at all that it was the female characters who were the most suspicious of Killmonger or if it was just a coincidence. Pepper, kid!Shuri, Christine asking the hard questions, and even Ramonda seemed really suspicious of him right up until the battle. I feel like there's a "girls get it done" vibe in there somewhere :sweat:.

What the heck was up with Pepper's hair? I might be mis-remembering how she looked in IM1 but she looked so...blonde here. I guess they were trying to go for a bright redhead look here, or they couldn't use Gwyneth Paltrow's likeness, but she really didn't look like herself here :(.

Poor Happy losing on his promotion moment. But at least he got to punch out Stane once he was revealed thanks to Killmonger. And Stane lives, which I guess is good for him, even if he's heading to prison :p.

"I like anime." You know they only wrote that in there because Michael B. Jordan is an actual anime fan and is starring in a Mecha cartoon from Rooster Teeth. Never thought I'd hear a Marvel show, let alone Tony Stark, mention Gundam out loud though :rolleyes2:.

A deliberate parallel to Tony building the Mark 2 with the making of the Stark Liberator...we even have Tony's old robot pals :D.

Tony and Killmonger bonding over how their dads and their respective deaths ultimately defined them. It's kind of interesting to see Killmonger kill Rhodey, and basically call him a sellout to the oppressors, only to say he was hoping he wouldn't have to kill Tony. Maybe he really did come to like Tony in-spite of his plan. He actually seemed kind of reflective right before he stabbed the robot they both worked on together :sad:.

It was kind of surreal to hear Paul Bettany as JARVIS instead of Vision again, heck we're hearing old JARVIS again too. I kind of wish he had gotten more lines in this episode...

Don Cheadle playing Rhodey circa-IM1 was funny. Less funny when he actually gets killed :eek:.

Andy Serkis reprising Klaw and getting to play the more manic characterization from his appearance in BP was fun. I was kind of wondering if Killmonger would still kill him, but he probably took that "boy" line personally :mad:.

I love how they couldn't resist getting Killmonger shirtless. Like the robot deliberately ripped his shirt off :elle:.

"The police are about the law. I want justice." Um...I don't think that's quite how that works Tony. Like even Batman might not think that's how it works o_O.

I wasn't expecting to see General Ross here, but I guess considering Killmonger's military background it made sense. Basically a stand-in for your average aggressive Military General Type, but I know in the back of his mind he was plotting to turn the Stark Liberators into a Hulkbuster unit to hunt down Banner :knd1:.

It was nice to hear Chadwick Boseman as T'Challa in the Black Panther suit again and to see him in action...until Killmonger actually kills him this time around. Seeing T'Challa die on-screen and get the full funeral rites...really hit differently, knowing the real life circumstances. Again, I'm glad we got to see him again when Killmonger went to the ancestral plain after taking the herb. Instead of seeing his dad Killmonger sees the good man he murdered. Maybe Bast was trying to show that ultimately she didn't approve of him as the new Black Panther :quinn:.

Gotta imagine there was a lot of mixed emotions in T'Chaka getting to see Erik knowing what he did to Erik's father. Losing T'Challa and seeing Erik, I feel like T'Chaka saw this as a chance to redeem what he did and make up for it. Not knowing he was also ultimately dooming Wakanda :crying:.

Ramonda being a general leading the Dora's in battle? I kind of wonder if that was something Coogler had planned for Ramonda's backstory that he might develop. I wasn't so much surprised about it so much as wondering why this never came up in the BP movie. You'd think she'd have been leading the charge to overthrow Killmonger :confused:.
 
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bigdaddy313

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I definitely think there is a part two. One of the trailers had young Shuri and I think Pepper in the heat of battle, which I think is part of the continuation of this episode. I think a lot of these episodes are setting up sequels
Also in d trailers u can see that a team is formed for the multiverse, Star-Lord Tachalla, Party Thor, AOU survivor Black Widow, BP-Killmonga and armoured Gamora who I think it’s from Black Star-Lord’s reality. And I think season 2 is going be more of a team thing going through all What-Ifs…?
 

Funkatron

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Also in d trailers u can see that a team is formed for the multiverse, Star-Lord Tachalla, Party Thor, AOU survivor Black Widow, BP-Killmonga and armoured Gamora who I think it’s from Black Star-Lord’s reality. And I think season 2 is going be more of a team thing going through all What-Ifs…?
What if... the anthology series is anything but...
 

reflection01

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The reports are that Boseman did four episodes as T’Challa. So the finale with that lineup is probably his last episode.


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Yojimbo

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Also in d trailers u can see that a team is formed for the multiverse, Star-Lord Tachalla, Party Thor, AOU survivor Black Widow, BP-Killmonga and armoured Gamora who I think it’s from Black Star-Lord’s reality. And I think season 2 is going be more of a team thing going through all What-Ifs…?
That does not sound like the right people to pluck from timelines for a... I guess Guardians of the Multiverse team.
 

Rick Jones

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Ramonda being a general leading the Dora's in battle? I kind of wonder if that was something Coogler had planned for Ramonda's backstory that he might develop. I wasn't so much surprised about it so much as wondering why this never came up in the BP movie. You'd think she'd have been leading the charge to overthrow Killmonger :confused:.

I was thinking that she probably aged out of it in the 10 years after that point in MCU history. Okoye felt like the general of the Dora from the Black Panther movie on, after we're really introduced to them.


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I believe one of the episodes will feature a Natasha Romanoff that was trained not as a Black Widow, but as the Taskmaster. I said it because there are some scenes where she's fighting like Captain America and using a bow like Hawkeye.
 

RoyalRubble

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It's time to party! A new What If...? episode premieres today on Disney+.
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Marvel's What If...?
Season 1, Episode 7
- What If Thor was an Only Child?
Episode Debut
- September 22, 2021

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere (i.e., as soon as a new episode debuts, Spoiler Tags for the previous episode aren't mandatory any longer).
 

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