Marvel's Spider-Man "Goblin War, Parts 1-4" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Roxas_Sora

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...but there's nothing left of Otto to put his mind in the body of a clone. That was basically the whole point him using the neuro-cortex instead of Peter. I could see Ultimate Spider-Man doing something like that, but it looks like everyone who dies on this show stays dead for good.

And was it confirmed that each episode of Maximum Venom would be a different story? I thought each of them were about Venom bringing a symbiote army to Earth.
Yeah, well, we thought Otto died in the comics too when he erased himself, but it had a back-up of his own mind stored, just in case. Who says he didn't do the same in the series before sacrifying himself?

All next season will be around symbiotes, but with different stories related to them. The first special will be about symbiotes invading Earth for sure. The others could come from villains who took some of the symbiotes for sinisters plans. For example:
- Clone Saga: Jackal creates Anti-Venom and use its healing powers to stabilize his clones.
- Venom 2099: We saw Tyberius Stone, ad this could bring Miguel O'Hara to the show.
- Black Cat - Queenpin: Similar to how Felicia was possessed by an Inkling from Maniac.
- Carnage: If Toomes was the Green Goblin (which was so many levels of wrong), then Norman Osborn could return as Carnage or the Red Goblin.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Marvel's Spider-Man "Goblin War: Part Four"

That was great. They gave Otto a truly beautiful death scene. When Peter tells him he IS his best friend, I had tears in my eyes. What a perfect sacrifice.

Man, that was awesome. What a wonderful way to finally redeem Ock and make everyone else finally willing to give Peter a second chance. And I totally get why they would.

Terrific episode and finale. *****.
 

Comicman2014

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May 15, 2014
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This show handles villain redemption a whole lot better than Ultimate Spider-man. It's implied Doc Ock at the end of the "Graduation Day" episode will give up his evil ways and use his scientific mind for good, but I don't buy it one bit. I don't trust Ultimate Norman Osborn even though the show is telling us he is a good guy. I buy this show's version of Ock as a reformed hero.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
This show handles villain redemption a whole lot better than Ultimate Spider-man. It's implied Doc Ock at the end of the "Graduation Day" episode will give up his evil ways and use his scientific mind for good, but I don't buy it one bit. I don't trust Ultimate Norman Osborn even though the show is telling us he is a good guy. I buy this show's version of Ock as a reformed hero.
It's because they actually put in the work.
 

SweetShop209

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One factor to a good redemption is not only giving a strong reason for them to reform, but also show more of them actively trying to be good. It doesn't have to be an arc, but at least 1-2 episodes. It's why I'm okay with redemptions like Cedric on Sofia The First or Zuko on Avatar. For the former, he managed to repair his relationship with his sister, earn back Roland's friendship, and free Sofia and Prisma from the amulet in the series finale. For the latter, he had individual episodes to help out some of the main characters, Aang in The Firebending Masters, Sokka in The Boiling Rock, and Katara in The Southern Raiders.
 

M.O.D.O.K.

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Yeah, well, we thought Otto died in the comics too when he erased himself, but it had a back-up of his own mind stored, just in case. Who says he didn't do the same in the series before sacrifying himself?
My issue with that is if Otto actually backed up his own mind, wouldn't he mention that to people? Why would he act like he's about to die if he could fix it?

Also, this show has diverged from the comics so many times. They can actually get away with killing him off, since they don't have to go back to Status Quo like the comics must. Plus, next season is all symbiote-focused.
 

Roxas_Sora

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My issue with that is if Otto actually backed up his own mind, wouldn't he mention that to people? Why would he act like he's about to die if he could fix it?

Also, this show has diverged from the comics so many times. They can actually get away with killing him off, since they don't have to go back to Status Quo like the comics must. Plus, next season is all symbiote-focused.
Well, Peter's male friends (Harry and Miles) know his secret identity, but why wouldn't he told them to Anya and Gwen reached this point? Harry didn't tell the truth about his vacation in Europe. Honesty is a big issue around here.

And who says symbiotes can't be related to this plot? Like I said, we could have a Clone Saga where the Jackal uses the healing powers of the Anti-Venom to keep the clones stable. Also, Spidercide is a clone that have a lot of similarities with a symbiote.
 

Frontier

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I really just did not feel the giant CGI robot for a final boss. I mean, the action was fine, but it just didn't have that big, climactic, showdown feel that I expect from a major Spider-Man fight. It also felt completely divorced from the Goblin stuff that had gone on before by turning this into Spider-Man vs. a souped-up Spider-Slayer, basically. And then the episode culminated in a big mind-blast instead of a knockdown, dragout, showdown. This was no "Final Curtain" :shrug:.

I'll be honest, I was expecting Miles' Venom Blast to completely take down the robot with the amount of force he seemed to put into it. I mean, he's done it before :rolleyes2:.

For once we had a threat that seemed like it warranted more then one Spider-Person, but then the rest of the Spider-Squad/Team Spider/Spider-Family/Whatever they're called got taken out in the first 10 minutes :sweat:.

Anna Maria calling Ock out for his villain moment was hilarious :proud:.

"The Jackal taken down?" Was there some off-screen Jackal storyline that finally resolved his plot? Because characters keep acting like that was finished when Jackal high-tailed it out at the end of Spider-Island. Am I missing something here? Or do the writers just not want to deal with him :confused:?

"Stark Satellite?" So this is partially Tony Stark's fault :p?

What happened to the rest of the Goblin soldiers? Were they all defeated or just vanish into the ether after Toomes was defeated :knd1:?

The day was saved not by Spider-Man...but by Otto Octavius. And I can't think of a better way to culminate Otto's character development this season then by him proving the lesson in responsibility and self-sacrifice that he learned from Peter, Uncle Ben, and being Spider-Man by using himself to stop Toomes. If this show will be remembered for anything, I hope it will be for the uniquely heroic Otto Octavius who learned his lesson and got to die a hero in the arms of the former nemesis he came to call his best friend :crying:.

On-top of all that, Otto died before his relationship with Anna Maria could truly blossom, once again enabling the status quo of no serious romantic relationships in Marvel cartoons :sad:.

I kinda love how Peter acknowledges Otto as his best friend within earshot of Harry while they're mimicking the big Spectacular Spider-Man #200 visual of Harry's death. Serves you right, Osborn :mad:.

Although...I feel like this is twice on the show where the main conflict in the finale is resolved by another character other then Spider-Man. Last season Harry set off the explosion that took out Norman and here Otto pretty much single-handedly stopped Toomes. The only thing Peter did was come up with the idea of stopping him and then web up an escaping Toomes, which just felt pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. Maybe next season Spider-Man might actually save the day on his own :ack:?

I am kind of happy that the dynamic with the Spiders-Nest is kaput now (unless Anna Maria takes over, I guess). It basically just amounted to Otto or Anna Maria telling our heroes stuff they could have easily figured out on their own, which just got kind of annoying. I hope we don't see any more Spider-Bots :rolleyes:.

Everyone coming together at Otto's grave was a nice scene, with everyone getting to comment on how much Otto impressed them and everyone basically forgiving Peter, re-connecting him with his friends and Horizon :anime:.

Although Otto's estate...how much money did Otto have? Wouldn't most of it have been illegally-gained funds :oops:?

I am kind of going to miss Midtown though since I don't feel like the show did enough with Peter there. Plus I'll miss Flash. And are we ever going to see Mary Jane on this show :(?

I am honestly kind of surprised Peter didn't reveal his identity to Gwen and Anya. I was almost half-expecting him to come out and say he's Spider-Man to everyone at the grave. Makes me wonder what the hero dynamic will be like next season o_O.

Max hints he knows Peter is Spider-Man now, so I guess the question is how he figured it out. Was it Peter mentioning he knew where the Cortex was left and Max seeing Peter's eye in his half-exposed mask? Was it gleamed from Otto's letter? Or maybe a bit of both? Somehow, I'm concerned that Max knowing will end up biting Peter in the butt (like everything Max does) :eek:.

I'm kind of surprised Jonah didn't appear in the finale at all. And weren't we supposed to get one more Stan Lee cameo? Maybe that's being saved for Maximum Venom :).
 
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Rick Jones

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"Stark Satellite?" So this is partially Tony Stark's fault :p?
Honestly, what isn't? The non-reveal is the one thing I didn't like only because Peter doesn't fully get his vindication. I have to see him be forgiven for wrongs he didn't commit especially when those particular wrongs didn't warrant the treatment he received.


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SweetShop209

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Another thing I thought about is that Aunt May wasn't in this arc at all.

52 episodes and I think the number of Aunt May appearances on this show is in the low 10's :sweat:.
LOL I just tried to think of Aunt May on the show and my first goes to USM May.

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She's made 17 appearances in the series, which amounts to about 32.7% of the show's episodes. For comparison's sake, she either appeared/was mentioned in 42 out of Ultimate Spiderman's 104 episodes, 26 of them in the first 2 seasons. That's 41.3% overall, and 25% in said 2 seasons.

 

Frontier

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She's made 17 appearances in the series, which amounts to about 32.7% of the show's episodes. For comparison's sake, she either appeared/was mentioned in 42 out of Ultimate Spiderman's 104 episodes, 26 of them in the first 2 seasons. That's 41.3% overall, and 25% in said 2 seasons.

Man, it's like every subsequent Spider-Man cartoon uses Aunt May less and less. Which is oddly in-line with the movies :p.
 
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WOW!! What a finale! Especially those last ten minutes!! Everything with Otto was amazing! This was a great ending to his journey and I'm sad to see the character go since he was a major highlight of the series for me. Got pretty emotional at his death scene. It was poignant stuff for this show! I'm so glad they stuck the landing and it's still so weird that Gwen and Anya don't know. Especially since Max now does know! I guess we'll find it in Maximum Venom if those two will ever learn the truth! Still, great finale and an incredible send-off for Otto Octavius!
 

Korra_Fan

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Aside from Gwen and Anya STILL not being let into the loop on Spidey's identity (come on, they are part of your Spider Team, there is literally no reason to conceal this from them and it will only create more misunderstandings in the future), this was an excellent finale. I said back in the last episode of the "Superior" arc that if it was Ock's last appearance, I'd miss him and Scott Menville's performance as him. Well, this episode is the time where I can say that for real. His final moment of redemption was incredible and actually got me choked up. It, and the whole character arc leading to it, may just be the most impressive thing this show has done yet. RIP, Otto. You are a hero.
 

Frontier

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I'm still not sure how I feel about Toomes being The Goblin. He barely even used the Goblin suit and then he just basically went all Spencer Smythe on everybody. It seems like the writers needed a surprise villain, didn't want it to be Osborn, had Alistair Duncan contracted as a main cast member, and then just basically gave him all the character traits of Osborn's season 1 inner circle :confused:.
Aside from Gwen and Anya STILL not being let into the loop on Spidey's identity (come on, they are part of your Spider Team, there is literally no reason to conceal this from them and it will only create more misunderstandings in the future),
To be fair, I don't think they're an official team. They just worked together as one in this arc.

I wouldn't be surprised if things just went back to Peter going solo with the occasional Miles team-up until the Symbiote's warrant everyone working together again.
I said back in the last episode of the "Superior" arc that if it was Ock's last appearance, I'd miss him and Scott Menville's performance as him. Well, this episode is the time where I can say that for real. His final moment of redemption was incredible and actually got me choked up. It, and the whole character arc leading to it, may just be the most impressive thing this show has done yet. RIP, Otto. You are a hero.
I think it's even more poignant given the likelihood that the next animated take on Doc Ock will be much more of a traditional, full-on, villain :ack:..
 

Comicman2014

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I'm still not sure how I feel about Toomes being The Goblin. He barely even used the Goblin suit and then he just basically went all Spencer Smythe on everybody. It seems like the writers needed a surprise villain, didn't want it to be Osborn, had Alistair Duncan contracted as a main cast member, and then just basically gave him all the character traits of Osborn's season 1 inner circle :confused:.
I think I know what the writers are planning! :D
I bet you Norman Osborn will return next season as Red Goblin since it will be symbiote-related!
RedGoblin.jpg
 

Spider-Man

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I finally got caught up on the show's last arc and I was surprised that Doc Ock sacrificed himself and they actually did that in the show. I assume his death was left sort of vague and done with a way out so they could actually do it. It really was a great finale and I can't help but be constantly surprised by how great this show is. Yes the animation could be better but the writing is really good and the character interactions are lots of fun. I honestly never expected to be taken this much with a Spider-Man show after the debacle that was Ultimate Spider-Man but this show keeps constantly surprising me.
 

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