"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." Season Six Talkback (Spoilers)

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Gold Guy

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I still think HIVE had one of the best deaths in the show. It wasn't flashy, but there was something poetic about his final, quieter moments.
 
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Fone Bone

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Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Toldja"

You know, if the episode just had one or two mistakes I might forgive it. But the episode did a ton of wrong moves, and none of them insignificant. Do I like Ennoch's bluff moment at the end? Of course I do. But the rest of the episode was unsound.

Let's detail the suck.

1. This first thing isn't actually a mistake on the part of the writing, but it's bad either way. But the stuff on Kitson sucks. I think the writers think it is a bit twisted and subversive, but it's just a bummer instead. I don't think that kind of story helps this specific show. And while we're on the subject, I don't think that type of story actually winds up helping ANY specific show. I am well aware Preacher, Happy!, and American Horror Story knocked my socks off in the first couple of weeks. But that kind of dark negativity played for laughs is not something that can ever sustain a decent series. I think this show doesn't quite get that as a viewer I am completely 100% fed up with Preacher at this point. I think the show is taking its cues from TV shows that actually wound up sucking.

2. I am very angry about how Sarge was treated. Yes, he's a murderer. But that is literally ALL they know for sure about him. Mack is making grand definitive and insulting statements about his lack of character and loyalty which is not only something that strikes me as untrue, but even if were true, Mack literally has no basis to think it in the first place. He looks like Coulson and Mack is punishing him for it. Not a good look.

3. I feel like S.H.I.E.L.D. was extra stupid and careless this episode, just to put Sarge in charge. These people are professionals right? Why on Earth if they know nothing about the Shrikes, would they put two of them in the same room together? That is rank incompetence and stupidity. And the reason Mack and Yoyo were that dumb is because the series needed an excuse to put Sarge in charge. Do you know what being unable to come up with a plausible excuse for that is? Bad writing. Instead S.H.I.E.L.D. looks like a bunch of amateurs and chumps.

4, I feel like Jeff Ward is wasted on this show. He was made a series regular. And yet this is literally only his second appearance in the entire season. Deek lightens the mood and makes me feel better about things. So it's annoying they are being as stingy with him as they are.

That whole episode was a mess. *1/2.
 

Yojimbo

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"Collision Course, Part 1"
Friday, July 5, 2017 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on ABC
To face The Galaxy-Hopping Hate-Beast That Eats Planets, the team on Earth asks for help in all the wrong places. While back on the Lazy Comet, something weird is going on with Izel’s crew, and it’s not just the puffies.
 

Fone Bone

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Marvel’s Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. “Collision Course, Part 1”

Excellent climax and great groundwork laid for the next episode. THIS is the proper way to do a set-up episode. Very well done.

I am very happy with the identity of the Beast. It's always something with Fitzsimmons, isn't it? But after all of those red flags they ignored, I suspect the Universe puts them through what it does because they both have it coming.

Really cool that Ennoch did NOT take a leave of absence from the show after all. Although just based on that ending, I agree that he's reckless. I think he is going to find out the hard way that his is a species of bungholes. Like Fitzsimmons he ignores all of the red flags.

What I love about the world ending scenario posited in this episode is that unlike last year's crappy season, it isn't hopeless. There are several ways present to save the Earth. The conflict is over what is the correct solution is, and what is worth the actual sacrifice Earth will have to make. I have to say this, but if the Shrikes ARE as deadly and devastating as Sarge describes (and I think he's probably right, despite what propaganda the Beast is filling Fitzsimmons' head with) then I think his plan needs to actually be given due consideration. The alternative is unthinkable.

I like that Gemma stopped Leo from blabbing everything about the monoliths. Frankly, she should not need to do that. It's smart, but since Fitz isn't a dummy, he should know not to do it himself. Why would Fitz think for a second it would be wise to give an unknown alien insider information about the status of Earth? She doesn't even need to be Queen Shrike for that to be a bad and dumb idea. And I feel like Fitzsimmons are again creating their own problems. And most of them start and end with Fitz.

That was a great episode right there. I am very impressed. ****1/2.
 

Gold Guy

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Maybe the best episode of the season so far. Very tense, all the sub-plots got screen time, Yo-Yo finally got to do something cool after awhile, and the special effects are still really impressive.

Heh, Fitz being jealous of himself was funny, but it is kinda understandable.

So wait, Deke and...that weird butterfly lady? Ok...

I also like how Sarge tricked Daisy into showing her powers. Crafty guy.
 
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Batboy84

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While I appreciate that they were upfront with who Izel was like 10 minutes in, something is just bothering me about it. This show has had a penchant for being relatively unpredictable, and well, Izel being this beast is about the most predictable the show's ever gotten. Obviously with 5 episodes left, anything can happen, and I do think there's more to the story than we've seen (at least from what Izel is hinting at with presumably Sarge), but if there isn't... well I don't know at this point.

Couple all of that with the possibility being floated about right now on the show that Sarge being a genetic match for Coulson is just random, and you have a poorly written season in my book (which is yet another reason why I'm hopeful there's more to the Sarge vs Izel thing than meets the eye).

Getting back to the Izel thing, if Benson could find information on this Izel from surveying where those monoliths were, then the question is one of three options: how do the Incan people know of her if she was never on Earth, why is Earth still in one piece if Izel was there before, or why did Izel leave the monoliths on Earth and NOT know to look there before visiting the Chronicoms' world?

Other than that, pretty good episode. Yo-Yo got to show off her powers, we got to see Daisy interact with Sarge, we got some legitimately funny moments, and we got a pretty good cliffhanger.
 

Yojimbo

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And check, Sarge's crew was on the Chronicom planet but bailed because they were too late. It's intriguing how Enoch and the Chronicoms have become the new "?" and what role they'll play. I also just noticed all of their names are people from or associated with the Bible. Though of course the Hunters' plan to mind hunt is concerning. I hope it doesn't turn into something like Malachi making LMDs of the Doctor and Id Simmons...

It feels like Izel will be killed off next week and Sarge's true nature will be revealed and he'll be the big bad for the rest of the season.

Glad Deke finally hooked up with someone else. I was never a fan of his crush on Daisy.

Nitpicks: Why don't they ice Pax and Jaco? Jaco I can let go but Pax they could have iced. Just chaining him up seemed low-tech and dumb. Or why not prep a cyro bomb to take out the Shrike at the Ley Line convergence point? Y'know because they revealed that weakness last episode?

-18:44 (DVR timestamp from TV broadcast) to 19:48
-Monoliths are really called Di'Allas and were created to "connect life together" but someone disagreed with that plan. Izel seems to hint it was Sarge.
-Monoliths from the Lighthouse were stolen from Izel's home world "millennia ago."
There's some leeway in the lines, Sarge definitely sounds like the one who disagreed with Izel's plan to "connect" others but might not necessarily be the one to steal the Monoliths. I'm still willing to bet that renegade Kree faction that created the Inhumans on Earth stole them and stashed them on Earth but never got around to recovering them since the rest of the Kree Empire found out about the Inhuman experiment and shut them down. Then the Inhumans utilized the one of the Black Monoliths to banish Hive.

Yeah, why there's two black ones is another question. Like was the first one seen on AOS a knock off that the Kree were trying to make based on the original black one? Like so they 'programmed' it to a different planet to banish Hive to because they couldn't figure out how to change the original's setting? Or the question of how does Izel "regain power" by getting them back. Were they originally a part of her (i.e. a rib from Adam)? And would reabsorbing them have put her back at god level power?

Then of course how and why one black one ended up on the Iliad and three ended up in the previously unknown, even to Fury, Lighthouse base.

-28:36-29:03
-Incan myth says Izel at escaped from a realm of fear and darkness "thousands of years ago" then started looking for her stolen Monoliths, destroying planets in her wake.
Definitely sounds like the Fear Dimension from last season they sealed in the Lighthouse.

-34:10-14
-Sarge claims Izel murdered his family.
Could be a lie to draw empathy. I think Sarge's claim he was 100 years old was a lie and was just part of his mind games to recruit May to his side. It's probably the same lie he told to the others on his squad. I guess saying you're 100 years old is more believable among aliens than saying he's thousands of years old. Izel and Sarge is starting to feel like a Yin/Yang conflict or even Jacob/Smoke Monster on Lost. Or y'know, they used to be married to each other.

There are several ways present to save the Earth. The conflict is over what is the correct solution is, and what is worth the actual sacrifice Earth will have to make. I have to say this, but if the Shrikes ARE as deadly and devastating as Sarge describes (and I think he's probably right, despite what propaganda the Beast is filling Fitzsimmons' head with) then I think his plan needs to actually be given due consideration. The alternative is unthinkable.
The safest solution, imo, may be a bit xenophobic but kill both Sarge and Izel. They're clearly both lying and are very dangerous.

Getting back to the Izel thing, if Benson could find information on this Izel from surveying where those monoliths were, then the question is one of three options: how do the Incan people know of her if she was never on Earth, why is Earth still in one piece if Izel was there before, or why did Izel leave the monoliths on Earth and NOT know to look there before visiting the Chronicoms' world?
Maybe whoever stole the Monoliths, stashed them on Earth, and left a warning about Izel that was preserved by the Incans as the art we saw and oral legend.
 
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reflection01

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The “simplest” explanation for Sarge right now is that he is a clone of Coulson created to lead the fight against the Strike and implanted with false memories.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Gold Guy

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Whoo, really exciting episode. I was genuinely wondering how they'd stop the bomb from exploding, but wow. Quite the feat for Daisy, being able to contain that kind of blast.

I like how the members of Sarge's team gradually began realizing just what kind of creep he was. I wouldn't want to follow anyone who would just ditch me like that. Also super satisfying seeing Mack beat up Sarge like that.

So is the Mack/Yo-Yo drama over? Thank goodness.

I honestly didn't think we'd see the whole team together again until the season finale, so that surprised me. Fitz's reaction to Deke was funny.

In general, I like how the episode genuinely tries to trick the audience into thinking it's the season finale...before the after credit scene.
 

Yojimbo

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That was interesting that "Sarge" never had any memories to begin with and he only recently remembered her name was "Izel." At this point, I'm pretty sure Sarge is just a corporeal manifestation of Coulson's darkest fears, losing his family (SHIELD) and the woman he loved (May), jettisoned from the Fear Dimension back in time due to the ramifications of the explosion of the three Monoliths and their attempts to seal the rift twice. Izel knows what he is because she was once a resident of that same dimension. So he's basically Smoke Monster with amnesia, I guess is a way to put it...

So for that reason, I'm skeptical that Sarge is dead and that he can be killed in a conventional sense. Like somehow, they're going to have to unseal a rift to the dimension and "throw" him in there.

Idk, I wasn't feeling the promo. Feels like next week will be a filler that won't reveal anything new. It'll just be faux horror movie stuff, paranoia, who's possessed, blah blah, Izel jumping from person to person. Basically, I'm thinking it's their homage to The Thing and no new answers about Izel.

Quite the feat for Daisy, being able to contain that kind of blast.
Yeah, I liked that move and her choke point idea. It's about time she uses her ability more strategically than just blasting people across the room. The part of it that kind of sucked as Daisy shined at the expense of May, had some great few episodes kicking butt, and even Deke, showing he's no FitzSimmons and can't be counted on. Though Deke shows he useful for money, lol.

Also super satisfying seeing Mack beat up Sarge like that.
Still, I was a little impressed with how many hits Sarge took from Mack. Like regular human Coulson -- one punch, right?

So is the Mack/Yo-Yo drama over? Thank goodness.
Yep.
 
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Batboy84

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Pretty good episode all in all. I have a couple nitpicks though.

I think the choke point scene was edited pretty badly. Daisy stands there waiting for the shrike to come, the shrike swoop in, then all of them just turn to dust spontaneously. Obviously we know what happened, but to the first time viewer, it would look like Thanos snapped them to dust. Just something that would've better indicated Daisy did it, that sound she makes when she does it, those rings that show whenever she uses her powers, something.

Not a fan of the "Are all the females here this powerful?" moment either. Way too heavy-handed for me. Even May just wryly smiling at the question would've gone over better, I think, than her saying "yeah they are" even though that's a literal lie, but no, they gotta make sure everyone knows they're saying women are powerful. Yeesh. Yeah this is a nitpick, but what the heck, I think this is a nit worth picking.

Gotta say, I don't think I liked them making it seem like it was a finale until the very end. It seemed premature, and all it did for me was make me wonder when the other shoe was going to drop.

But yeah, other than that, pretty good. Looking forward to next week since it looks like they'll finally explain why Sarge looks like Coulson, even though he's dead now but better late than never.
 
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Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
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Not a fan of the "Are all the females here this powerful?" moment either. Way too heavy-handed for me. Even May just wryly smiling at the question would've gone over better, I think, than her saying "yeah they are" even though that's a literal lie, but no, they gotta make sure everyone knows they're saying women are powerful. Yeesh. Yeah this is a nitpick, but what the heck, I think this is a nit worth picking.
I thought that moment was wonderful. Because May was using the term "power" in an entirely different way than Snow was using it. May saying women are all that powerful, doesn't mean they are powerful in the same way Daisy is. Power is an idea and a belief system. If May says the rest of the women on Earth are that powerful I believe her.

Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Collision Course Part II"

Guarantee Sarge is immortal. If they do kill him off, it will be in the finale, not now.

I think the team misread Jocko's intentions at the end. I don't think he turned on Sarge at all, or thought that Sarge had shown his true colors and needed to be taken down. I think he correctly recognized that Sarge was behaving erratically, and his extreme and violent behavior was jeopardizing all facets of the mission. He didn't turn on Sarge. Sarge turned on the rest of the team, and Jocko behaved accordingly. I got the distinct feeling before the suicide run that he never stopped believing in Sarge. It's just Sarge had gone nuts, and as Sarge has stated multiple times the mission has to come first.

And for all of Sarge's talking about what everyone would have to sacrifice, ultimately it's S.H.I.E.L.D.'s refusing to accept that victory on those terms which proves Sarge is full of it. I especially love how Mack talking about the inevitability of getting the ship back mirrors Sarge's swaggering confidence in being put in charge a couple of episodes ago. Very cool.

Snow asks May if all woman on Earth are that powerful. May answers yes. Correct answer.

Speaking of Snow, I actually understand why Deek thinks she's can skate out of S.H.I.E.L.D. prison despite being a sociopathic murderer. In the apocalyptic future he came from, murder was literally no big deal, and the sociopaths did better than most. I totally understand why he doesn't consider the fact that she's a psycho serial killer a relationship dealbreaker. In the world he escaped from, it's almost certainly a selling point in a significant other.

Fitz telling Simmons she smelled good when he did was outright weird.

Raise your hands if you figure a Shrike is gonna come pouring out of that sleepy agent's mouth next week. This isn't over.

I loved this episode. And I have said this before, but it bears repeating because this week told me it's still true: But this is the first season I've enjoyed since the first. And I only enjoyed the first until the Hydra reveal. It's possible this could wind up the best season of the show. I hope so, but we'll see. *****.
 
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Gold Guy

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This episode was...wow.

Honestly, I hadn't been feeling Izel as a villain before now, but with just this episode, she's potentially the scariest MCU television villain since Killgrave. Did not expect a death would happen in this episode...

As for the plot twist at the end, I'm...mixed. I have to see how it plays out in the next few episodes.

I have to say, Simmons looked pretty bad here. She really underestimated the Sarge.
 

Yojimbo

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I was totally wrong about this episode, it was pretty damn great.

So the Fear Dimension was really the combined power of the 3 Monoliths, the third Monolith creates life, it created a Coulson copy, it was jettisoned back in time to Izel's dimension where Pachakutiq took it over but is plagued by fragments of Coulson's life, Izel wants to create bodies for all of her non-corporeal brethren (basically gods), and only Pachakutiq has the ability to stop Izel. If Izel is a creator in the myth Dr. Benson found then Pachakutiq must be... a destroyer. And now Izel has the Gravity Control Device and can remake the three Monoliths. So she's probably headed to some Incan temple built in her name, I guess for some Monolith making ritual. Shrug.

Damn, Izel is definitely scary and definitely has shifted to the big bad. Leagues more deadly than Hive and Aida. SHIELD has nothing that can harm her. Made Piper shoot her own hand and made Davis kill himself. Walked out with Mack and Zephyr One. And everything hinges on somehow working with Sarge/Pachakutiq to destroy her. Oi. Then again, or Daisy?

RIP Davis.