"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." Season Seven Talkback (Spoilers)

Yojimbo

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Please note, this thread may contain spoilers and references to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

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"The New Deal" - Season 7 Premiere
Friday, May 27, 2020 @ 10 p.m. ET on ABC
Coulson and the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. are thrust backward in time and stranded in 1931 New York City. With the all-new Zephyr set to time-jump at any moment, the team must hurry to find out exactly what happened. If they fail, it would mean disaster for the past, present and future of the world.agne

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Fone Bone

Hindsight 2020!
Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "The New Deal"

I love the idea that in order to save S.H.I.E.L.D., they are gonna have to save Hydra.

Koenig's ancestor is a total dud.

Ian De Castecker is not billed in the opening credits.

Love Coulson fanboying FDR.

Good premiere. ****.
 

Yojimbo

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I love that FDR was a red herring because of his role in forming the SSR in the late 30s/1940 and now they have the conundrum of saving HYDRA to save S.H.I.E.L.D. and even worse, keep Malick's father alive and make sure he delivers what appears to be the Super Soldier Serum prototype that Schmidt used that got him turned into Red Skull. I bet there's going to be some hesitation from some of the agents while some like Coulson and Simmons will stress they have to make sure history is preserved or there would be untold damage to the timeline. Also an intriguing choice with the implications that Freddy's father possibly killed himself so he wouldn't have to take part in the Maveth ritual, and in turn Freddy then Gideon manipulates the selection so they don't get chosen as revealed back in "Paradise Lost" in season 3. And just mind blowing to think that the Maveth cult of HYDRA had a direct part in the history of the Red Skull's European branch. Just a great way to tie things further together.

Also loved that one line about 7 minutes in when Daisy is confused as to why they're in 1931 when S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't exist until the 50s. Yes, in the overall MCU canon, the true founding year of S.H.I.E.L.D. is very muddled and surprisingly no solid year or full date have been given. It's a whole other big discussion in itself but based on everything that's been revealed and mentioned, my guess was 1950-1952 so I felt validated to see Daisy mentioning the 50s.

I can see why Director Mack would be angered with Fitz, Simmons, and Enoch for making a LMD Coulson -- because what's the point of the anti-LMD rules if no one will follow it and if punishment will just be a stern yell? But on the other hand, Coulson was set up as the undisputed S.H.I.E.L.D. history buff and LMD Coulson proved it already in this episode with things like knowing the swordfish password, the speakeasy, or FDR. And I suppose someone will counter they made a Chronicom technically. I look forward to seeing what will come of LMD Coulson in the series finale. Still, it's amazing this is like the 5th or 6th iteration of the character that Clark Gregg is playing!

Ernest Koenig, lmao. Loved how he turned out to be the total opposite of the Agent Koenigs and is more of a frenemy instead of something like a courageous and career SSR agent.

Love the quake uppercut move. Also loved Daisy calling out the cop guarding the crime scene. :D

Not sure how I feel about Yo-Yo getting new arms but I liked that she was against it at first rather than being all gung-ho about accepting them and Simmons gave her practical reasons for using them.

Curious mystery with what Fitz's message could be and of course continuing with the mystery of where he is. I wonder long they're going to wait to reveal it, unless the reason is De Castecker 's filming another movie, lol.

Poor Mack having to deal with the racism.

I give the May in the ceiling ending a pass, a specialist would be suspicious by default awakening alive and nearly healed after certain death.

Props to wardrobe, sets, props, and hair and make up for pulling off the 30s feel. Yet must have been a bit gut wrenching for them that some of these would only be used for 1 or 2 or so episodes because of the time jumping aspect of the season.
 

reflection01

Well-Known Member
As a black man and with everything going on, I definitely thought about what Mack could do in 1931 that would butterfly effect to make things better now. I didn’t come up with anything.

Good start to the season. Typical place setting first ep. I guess they’ll be chasing the Chronicons through time. Fitting way to unmoor the show from MCU continuity but kind of a shame since the MCU is stuck in 2023 for awhile. Maybe this show will end in the aftermath of Endgame.
 

Gold Guy

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A relatively low-key season opener, but it's just so nice to spend some more time with the characters after such a long break, and knowing that we'll have to say good-bye to them soon...

Not sure how I feel about the Chronicoms being the final villains yet - although obviously, a lot can change between now and the series finale. But it just seems like a villain with closer ties to the heroes would make sense for the actual final boss.
 

Yojimbo

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Not sure how I feel about the Chronicoms being the final villains yet - although obviously, a lot can change between now and the series finale. But it just seems like a villain with closer ties to the heroes would make sense for the actual final boss.
Perhaps, Malachi the leader of the Chronicom Hunters, will take the face of an existing character in the big series finale fight.
 

Yojimbo

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"Know Your Onions" - Episode 2 (125)
June 3, 2020 @ 10 p.m. ET on ABC
With the identity of the timeline-unraveling "thread" revealed, the team's mission to protect him at all costs leads each agent to question their own values. Is preserving the future of the world as they know it worth the destruction they could prevent?
 

Fone Bone

Hindsight 2020!
Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Know Your Onions"

Man, that was great. The show has unfortunately been going further and further away from the MCU canon as the seasons have progressed, but it looks like it is hewing to the early canon at least during the final season. I sincerely hope this means they'll explain the lack of any fall-out from The Snap in the show's timeline. A lot of the Netflix stuff doesn't fit perfectly, but it mostly does if you ignore who is president and accept all of the shows are prequels to before interesting stuff started happening. But Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. made a HUGE mistake at the end of season 5 by setting the finale during Thanos' attack without knowing the secret ending to Infinity War. It was amateur hour for Marvel Television, and my one wish for the show in its last season is to somehow make it fit into canon after all. We'll see if that's going to be the actual idea. The episode hewing so close to the canon from the first Captain America movie suggests this season takes its MCU connections far more seriously than the show started to do in the third season and beyond. We'll see.

I wondered why Ennoch's actor wasn't a series regular, and that was a good explanation, as was the lineage of how the Koenig family got involved in espionage to begin with. What's great about Enoch being stranded is that they can meet up with him again later in the season in the present with him having been on Earth in this timeline the entire time. I very much look forward to that.

May alarms me. Not as much as Sarge did, but far more that ILM Coulson ever did.

If this is what the show is going to be for its last season, I'm going to enjoy it. I enjoyed the Shrike stuff last year too, but that's only because it was a huge step up from the relentless negativity of Season 5. I wouldn't have tolerated it otherwise. This episode was legitimately good, and hints the last season could be too. I liked Season 5 but the only season I truly responded to was the first, which was when it was most like Alias and a spy-fi show. The time travel suggests it's still not that again, but at least they are really taking pains to stay within the canon, which was the entire problem with the last two seasons. I really liked this episode. ****1/2.
 

Yojimbo

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Super Soldier Serum. Erskine. Red Skull. Great tie-in there. Like I said last week, a great bonus that the Hive/Maveth cult had such a big role in the transformation of Schmidt into Red Skull.

It may have seemed like a throw away but the whisky in the episode, O'Harren's Scotch Whisky is another strong MCU connection.
-In Agent Carter season 1, "The Blitzkrieg Button," Agent Sousa couldn't get any intel out of that homeless man, Jack Thompson intervened and offered the homeless man a bottle of O'Harren's Scotch Whisky in exchange for information.
-In Daredevil season 1, "The Cut Man," Jack Murdock gave Matt some O'Harren's Scotch Whisky so his hands wouldn't shake while he stitched up his cuts
-In Punisher season 1 "The Judas Goat" and "Cold Steel," Micro also had a bottle of the whiskey at his hideout. When Curtis removed an arrow from Frank Castle, he poured the whiskey on the wound then offered it to Micro.
-In Punisher season 2 "Fight or Flight," Frank poured it. on a bullet wound in his hip
-In Cloak and Dagger season 1 "First Light," Melissa Bowen used to drink the whiskey.
-In Clock and Dagger season 2, "Shadow Selves," Mayhem gave Delgado a bottle of the whisky as thanks for some advice. He's later seen drinking it.

I chuckled at the idea that present era Enoch got stuck in 1931 so now there are two Enochs. Him and the original that is somewhere on Earth studying the history of mankind. Maybe he'll even turn out to be the asset known as Gemini instead of Tillman's twin barrel. Like taking on "Gemini" would be his attempt at irony. But I wonder how much Enoch knows about S.H.I.E.L.D. history because in theory, he could bid his time and make sure he's at crucial points in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s history then could get lucky and reunite with the team.

I can understand, on one hand, why Daisy was being so emotional and impulsive about telling Deke to kill Freddy Malick but on the other, she knows the parameters of the mission, they can't do any more than the bare minimum or risk altering the entire timeline. They could very well create a scenario like Aida built in the Framework! I'm glad Deke was sensible to stand down and not follow her orders. The hair pulling aspect of it is Director Mack really has no means to reprimand her because they have to quickly figure out who's next to save and do it before the time window pops up again. Still it's further proof the right call was made when Mack was voted to succeed Coulson as Director instead of Daisy.

I definitely eye rolled that once again something's wrong with May. The fight with Enoch definitely lends itself to the "she could be a LMD" theory. May is usually a tough to brutal fighter but she definitely came off colder than usual especially with the fire extinguisher pummeling. And that she changed once Simmons told her to stop and complied o.s. to get back into the chamber. The deus ex machina chamber that no doubt have to be expounded on further along with Simmons' repeatedly vague comments about how long she and Fitz spent to design and build the new tech. For all we know this Simmons could be an advanced LMD as well.

I honestly forgot Yo-Yo still was at risk for complications with the Shrike from last season's finale. It doesn't seem like there's any physical ramifications as Simmons concluded her body is safely breaking down the remains. So I guess it's another mental wall Yo-Yo has to get past. Hopefully before it risks boning the team again...

I guess Enoch was always meant to get stuck in 1931 and influence the Korenigs role in the LMD project like a predestination paradox? Or as long as Ernest keeps what Enoch tells him to himself and subtly teaches his children and grandchildren about robotics - it's not a damn in the time stream. That would be the only way that doesn't screw up that part of the timeline... Plus, I recall it was stated S.H.I.E.L.D.'s LMD project was scuttled because the initial attempts failed so heh heh either the Billy, Sam, and Eric were not adept at robotics or Enoch wisely held out on teaching Ernest everything. heh heh.

Area 51. Of course S.H.I.E.L.D. has history with that facility. heh. So we're talking back half of the 1950s, after April 1955. Hmm. "Former partner" - Ouch. Yeah, we all know why. lol. They gotta plan to address that. They just gotta. Can't wait to get to explore the early years of S.H.I.E.L.D. in the next episode(s).
 

reflection01

Well-Known Member
No reason why Enoch couldn’t just meet up with them in each time period. He’s doing it before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Yojimbo

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"Alien Commies from the Future!" - Episode 3 (126)
June 10, 2020 @ 10 p.m. ET on ABC
A surprise leap forward in time has stranded Enoch in 1931 and landed the team in yet another unfamiliar decade. Now, in order to stop the chronicoms from launching their newest future-dismantling plan, the agents will have to infiltrate one of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s most secure bases. They won't be able to succeed without help from a familiar face or two.
 

Fone Bone

Hindsight 2020!
Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Alien Commies From The Future"

So this show is now fun again. Good to know. Been a LONG time.

Coulson being a big fan of Sousa was like the most predictable and welcome turn ever. I also love Daisy telling Sousa to tell Simmons her accent is fake. I would have loved to have heard that too.

My favorite scene wasn't actually silly or fun. It was Deke being upset with Daisy for putting him on the spot like that last episode. She didn't just order him to disobey orders, she ordered him to murder a kid. He had no context for that and considering that that's what the Chronocoms wanted, apparently neither did she. But Daisy is taking for granted the fact that Deke used to be very free with his gun. That's because he was forced to be. He doesn't want to go back to that. He's a nice guy. And Daisy treating him like her coldblooded enforcer isn't just a bad command decision. It's a terrible thing for one friend to do to another who is suffering from PTSD and trying to get over it. Deke didn't say this in so many words and he doesn't need to for me to get it. Daisy was completely out of line.

One of the endearing things about Deke is him being annoyed with his white privilege. Why is that his reaction? No other white person on Earth is annoyed by their privilege. It's because in the horrible future he was from, racism didn't exist. The only enemies the humans had were the Kree, and racism was not a luxury they could afford, or anything Deke ever experienced. And Deke's mad because as great as the world not being blown up seems to him, in a lot of ways, people are crummier to each other than they were in his time, simply because they don't have a common enemy to fight for survival. And it's petty. And it's stupid. And it makes Deke feel small for having to participate in it. And it's a stark reminder than the world is not entirely made of Whoppers.

That last close-up shot of Coulson's eye was dynamite. This show has sort of cooled it with the iconic moments after season one. That definitely qualified.

I still don't understand what is up with May. At least Yoyo is concerned about what's happening with her. May's behavior simply makes no sense.

That was another roundly enjoyable episode. If the entire season is like this, we are in for a blast. ****1/2.
 

Yojimbo

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I loved the jabs at how the locale helped them keep Zephyr One from ruining the timeline. lol.

I loved Sousa's return so much. Sousa suspected sleeper agents (sure, maybe he meant communists but the fact that HYDRA infiltrated S.H.I.E.L.D.) from the start, but the CIA ignored him. Wow. That's an excellent reveal. So awesome his presence corked up the mission. Didn't expect he'd be stationed at Area 51 post-AC season 2 but figures that would be a S.H.I.E.L.D. base (and lol at Daisy's callback to her season 1 Skye self and her conspiracies). Loved they named dropped the LA SSR office, Hugh Jones, Isodyne, and the Council of Nine. And of course, the white elephant in the room of the break up with Carter.

Sharpe was interesting... definitely all the ex-WWII, McCarthyism, white man rolled up into one. The probe threat, the ending, and him ending up uttering the episode title was hilarious.

Simmons pretending to be Peggy Carter was pretty funny. And making that USAF lieutenant feel like a fool for being sexist and thinking she was the secretary. Daisy's fake accent bit was hilarious.

Man, May and Yo-Yo. On one hand I'm glad they're not skirting around the PTSD they got from nearly/pretty much dying last season, but on the other, it was horrifying to see May in particular have that panic attack. Ming Na acted excellently in that scene. I think it might have to do with May dying in that other dimension/planet - the 'rules' of death might have been different there. Or simply a strong character like May, how else would she react to having been killed? Idk. It's an interesting arc but hopefully not season long...

Yeah, Deke is really starting to grow on me. I also liked that he called out Daisy.

Dr. Vega was kinda interesting. Like when he was so gleefully showing off those inventions not knowing Coulson LMD and Simmons were from the future and were well versed already. Was a little surprised they didn't just have Aloysius Samberly back instead of making a new character.

The quick debut of a new kind of Chronicom, a Predictor. Hmm. Surprised they needed an oracle like character when they have Fury's Tool Box and know the history of Earth already. I guess they still need a strategist to make their plans for them. Or for that matter where's Malachi, the leader of the Hunters at?

And well, what timing, these episodes are airing during the current climate. The shot of the restrooms in the diner. Mm hm.

Ulp, guess Simmons forgot an EMP would also knock out LMD Coulson. But based on the epic shot of his eye, some glitch happens. Based on the promo, it'd be funny if he thinks he's in a period detective noir movie or something.

Wow, based on the preview, maybe the Chronicoms are out to save Sousa's life rather than let him be assassinated? I bet Daisy, as reckless as her thoughts about the timeline are will try to test a loophole. If Sousa died, then instead of letting him die - they take him with them on Zephyr and that technically satisfies that he no longer exists past that point in time. Or maybe Sousa happens to be on Zephyr when the next time window pops up. They don't know when the next jump is. So even interrogating Sharpe on Zephyr was rather reckless...
 

Magmaster12

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Simmons mentions how women were allowed to be Pilots during WW2 does that count as a contradiction to Captain Marvel?

It would be weird since that's the one were Coulson shows up.
 

Yojimbo

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Simmons mentions how women were allowed to be Pilots during WW2 does that count as a contradiction to Captain Marvel?

It would be weird since that's the one were Coulson shows up.
As they point out, they were only technically pilots. All they were doing was menial work like towing out targets for practice runs.
 

Gold Guy

Two is always better than one
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Wow, I forgot how much I liked Sousa. Really bad luck for Simmons that he popped up, but even good plans can be foiled by bad luck.

A lot of the humor based around the past works pretty well, there's a lot you can do with that.

The May sub-plot is the only one I'm not sure what to make of yet. Hopefully it has a satisfying explanation.
 

Yojimbo

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"Out of the Past" - Episode 4 (127)
June 17, 2020 @ 10 p.m. ET on ABC
It was just another average morning on July 22, 1955, when Agent Phil Coulson realized the importance of that day in the S.H.I.E.L.D. history books. With a chip on his shoulder and a genre-bending glitch in his system, he’d set into motion a chain of events that would hopefully preserve the timeline as we know it and ensure those pesky chronicoms get the ending they deserve. What could go wrong?
 

Fone Bone

Hindsight 2020!
Marvel's Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. "Out Of The Past"

Okay, I liked that a lot. There was one thing I didn't like but we'll get to that eventually.

I liked the voice-over narration of Coulson and the black and white filming. Interestingly, I don't actually think the series needed to bother to come up with a reason to explain all that at the end and bring things back to color. But I am resigned that it's a sci-fi show, and overexplaining stuff is basically what they are all about. I do not watch this specific show for narrative ambiguity. The only Marvel show EVER to engage in that is Legion, and suffice it to say that was unusual. As standard superhero fare explanations go, I'll live with it.

I loved the stuff with Deke and Yoyo especially Deke realizing he basically created a monster with Malick. I personally think he holds himself too responsible for that (factors far above him made things turn out the way they did) but lord after Freddy shot that guy I totally got Deke's "What have I done?" expression. And him conspiring with Yoyo at the end that the status quo is no longer good enough doesn't actually strike me as a complication working against the team. Saving Sousa says it's actually the right perspective.

Saving Sousa was having their cake and eating it too, and I especially like the idea that he's now gonna be a member of the crew for the immediate future at least. The culture shock alone is going to be amusing and him having to leave everything behind is going to be great drama. The show did right by the character.

Where is Fitz? I got the narrative logic of him not being on this specific time travel mission, but I would have thought he would have popped up elsewhere in an unrelated tag by the point for a bit of juicy foreshadowing for when he and Simmons are reunited. Has Ian De Castecker actually left the show?

And now I get to the thing I disliked. Ultimately I will forgive it because next week says my fears as I was watching it were groundless, but I felt like everyone was taking Ennoch for granted. Him staying behind and being utterly alone is a grand epic sacrifice, and nobody actually cares that he made it. What especially disturbed me is that Ennoch has turned on S.H.I.E.L.D. in the past, so he was their one ally I really wanted and expected them to try to keep happy. Next week's previews hint that all of this nonsense this week was just a poke at the poor guy's expense. But I didn't actually find it funny because I took the level of hurt he was clearly experiencing seriously. And it's weird that the series expected I'd think differently. But next week looks like it will turn out all right. Still Ennoch's scenes made me very unhappy.

That was a pretty great hour of television otherwise though. No other complaints. ****.
 

Yojimbo

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I loved the salute to noir and they had an in-universe reason for it. So good!

Like I thought, perfect way to preserve the history of Sousa's death and prevent his actual death at the hands of HYDRA but not harm the timeline. I love the implication that Sousa might be the wild card that turns things in the team's favor. It's a great gift to have Sousa back on screen. Loved the nod to S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy with the history book and the pages summarized some of Agent Carter season 2 and even the Wall of Valor from season 1 of AOS got in a cameo.

May has become an empath. Ok. That's got to be the worse thing that could happen to May, lol. I'm not sold on this but I'm intrigued. At least she confirmed to us, the audience, that Simmons is Simmons and not another advanced LMD like Coulson.

I was lost on what the package was. At first I thought it was a Diviner but whatever it is was lost on me if it was indeed a callback.

The 2 things I loved about Enoch's scenes were Deke actually wanted to catch up with him but by that point Enoch assumed he wanted to be transferred. Ok, used him for some comedy bits like past seasons. But let's get him back in the game. I also loved the implication of Enoch's rebuke of the agent at the bar calling him his best friend - because in the past season - Enoch's best friend was declared to be Fitz.

I'm warming up to the theory that the Chronicoms' new plan is to make sure Wilfred lives past 1970 to meddle with the christening ceremony of the Lighthouse. I guess the Predictor determined Wilfred living a few more years won't drastically change the timeline, heh heh. The perfect pawn. Yes, the real Rick Stoner will be appearing. Gonna be fun. :D

Where is Fitz? I got the narrative logic of him not being on this specific time travel mission, but I would have thought he would have popped up elsewhere in an unrelated tag by the point for a bit of juicy foreshadowing for when he and Simmons are reunited. Has Ian De Castecker actually left the show?
No, he hasn't. Like season 5, he was filming something else but it got postponed, he was available sooner than expected, but most of Season 7 was already written. I would guess don't expect to see him until the halfway mark.
 

Magmaster12

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Poor Enoch forced to spend decades working in a bar waiting for his friends to contact him, hopefully, he does not become resentful.
 

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