"Marvel's Agent Carter" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

"The Blitzkrieg Button" January 27, 2015

Howard returns! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on ABC.

"The Blitzkrieg Button"
Tuesday, January 27, 2015 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
Chief Dooley follows a new clue that threatens Peggy's future at the SSR.

 

[Yojimbo]

Well worth the wait. This definitely looks like the tipping point.

On Mr. Mink, the villain of the week. Thought it was cute they built him up all episode as this sadistic killer only to be horribly and spectacularly murdered by the not-so-unassuming Dorothy Underwood just because he has a cool pistol. Also, very hilarious he was temporarily blocked by Miriam. On Dorothy, called it.

Even though it didn't end well, it was still a pleasure to have this episode revolve around Peggy Carter and Howard Stark - building upon their friendship from CA:TFA. Found it amusing he knew Peggy could do 107 one arm push ups. While Stark's reason for engineering vaccines and cures with Steve's blood, I couldn't help but wonder if he was thinking about Erskine's formula and leading the way to create another Captain America. And Stark's line about the government almost gone through the 11 vials of Steve's blood -- reminded me about General Ross talking about how the project went dormant for a long time before he revived it. Also, called it with the blood.

On the Finow mystery - great shades of Hunan... after the ongoing arc about Skye being retrieved by S.H.I.E.L.D. back in '89, I'm not going to hold my breath on some amazing reveal -- just a hopefully satisfying and plausible answer about Leviathan and Howard. Since this battle involved the Russians pressing onto Germany, that would mean ~second half of 1944. It is intriguing to think what Howard was up to between helping the SSR fight HYDRA. Was he already aiding in the preliminary bouts against communism from which this Leviathan is likely born out of? Hmm.

And with Stark's bad babies recovered, I look forward to see this mini-series' focus presumably shift to the greater threat of Leviathan. The typewriter's message at the end is probably what leads to the mission to Russia next week.

It was welcome to see Sousa and Dooley get some street cred in this episode - proving they are where they are for a reason. Sousa's hunches pay off and Dooley can fool a Nazi with a breath mint. But it looks like Sousa may be the first to realize Carter is the mystery woman. That will be an interesting confrontation... and cue to Thompson sucking the joy out of life.

"Why is your mustache so sad?" is going down as one of the all time best lines in the MCU.

 

[Gold Guy]

Dang, Dorothy. That scene made me choke on whatever I was drinking. I knew she was suspicious, but wow!

Lots of good humor in this episode between Peggy and Howard.

Smaller laugh, but that general sure is sneaky, giving that German soldier "cyanide" that turns out to be a mint.

 

[reflection01]

I doubt they'll take the Breaking Bad route but I'd love to know how she plans on getting rid of that body under her bed.

 

[The Penguin]

"The Iron Ceiling" February 3, 2015

Neal McDonough and company guest star! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on ABC.

"The Iron Ceiling"
Tuesday, February 3, 2015 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
When Peggy is finally trusted with a mission, she calls on the Howling Commandos squad.

 

[honorableninja]

i hope we get an epic battle between peggy and dottie before this series ends the way thier buliding dottie up as a major threat if the two women dont go head to head i be disspoinated why should only may and nastaha get the epic fights.

 

[Yojimbo]

Will great to see Dum Dum again and loved the contrast of how they turned to Peggy for orders. Great to see Dooley and Jack slowly changing their opinion of Peggy. Even Dooley not wanting to roast Stark was a pleasant surprise. Union Jack crack was hilarious. Happy hating the Howlin' Commandos name was awesome. But now I want more Howlin' Commandos.

On the Yeti story, wonder if they were alluding to the Inhuman from the comics.

Really cool to weave in the Black Widow program and Red Room stuff in with the Leviathan arc. A photonic amplifier though? I wonder if that's a weapon or they're trying to duplicate the Vita-Ray devices used on Steve Rogers...

As for surprises, pretty rad seeing John Glover as the reporter Dooley talks to.

Hope they wrap up this Howard Stark-Finow thing but looks like a break from that when

Spoiler

Sousa outs Peggy and she's being hunted next week.

 

[Neo Yi]

Hmm, and here I was expecting Sousa to be the potential love interest for Peggy on virtue of his sympathetic respect for her and the crap she deals with, but that might not be the case what with the revelation he found concerning a certain blonde-haired lady. If anything, it might be Jack! Dang, what a great way to work some character development into the guy: hot-headed jerk who really acts this way to save face and cover up some severe war trauma. Episode Five was a really big turnover for the entire mini-series, but seeing we're halfway through the show, that makes sense. Legit excited for the next episode.

Also god I loved Peggy's snark in the beginning parts of the episode. Her sass is on double duty tonight.

 

[Peter Paltridge]

Smaller laugh, but that general sure is sneaky, giving that German soldier "cyanide" that turns out to be a mint.

What? I read that the opposite way: he gave the guy in the hallway cyanide too.

 

[Ed Liu]

Probably for the best that I got to mini-marathon episodes 4 and 5 almost back-to-back rather than seeing them a week apart 'cuz otherwise I think episode 4 would look a lot weaker. Jack Thompson trying to explain sexism to Peggy Carter is another moment when you look at him like a jackass, but the next episode shows him (and us) exactly how wrong he was when the Howling Commandos not only view Peggy as an equal, but even defer to her. Watching the SSR folks build up their respective cases reinforces the points that they're not idiots, while also neatly setting up the role-reversal where Thompson and the boss become far more accepting of Peggy while Sousa may turn out to be her worst enemy.

I did absolutely love the scenes with Peggy and Dum Dum Dugan, too. They had such great chemistry, acting like old war buddies and really good friends. It was also a great, subtle thing how her camaraderie with the Howling Commandos suddenly made Jack Thompson feel like the marginalized outsider. Also loved how Sousa reacted so strongly to seeing Peggy in her underwear, when that underwear was so incredibly modest by modern standards. It was an interesting way to communicate that discomfort and set up an important plot point without overly objectifying or exploiting Peggy.

(Not that I have any problems at all with Hayley Atwell in her underwear. Even period underwear. And even as this means I'm overly objectifying her exactly in the way the show didn't. Hrm. Moving on.)

Dottie being a sleeper agent was something lots of people predicted, but I'm pleasantly surprised to see how they're tying that in to Black Widow (even if the connection isn't obvious to anyone who doesn't know the comics). I'm just wondering if she knows who Peggy is and who she works for and was explicitly sent to spy on her, or if it's just happy coincidence that she placed herself in the Griffith and figured out her neighbor was more than what she seemed to be (or that she knew who OSS agent Peggy Carter was by reputation and realized after the fact that it was her).

All that said, there were a few bits in episode 5 that kind of burned my bacon for surprising reasons. The way Peggy showed up the Langley codebreaker seemed really, really contrived. First of all, why is the typewriter suddenly spitting out messages in code when they were all in plaintext before? Why wouldn't the Langley codebreaker have thought the incoming message was in a foreign language? If I remember correctly, Peggy mentioned a one-time pad cypher, which is a real thing, but which also means you have to have the one-time pad to decrypt it. But they never mentioned they had one, and I didn't see it when Peggy was decoding on the fly. I don't think it would have hurt the scene any if the codebreaker had cracked the code but said, "but I don't speak Russian," letting Peggy be the translator. I also think her "I know the region" speech was kind of crazy and made no sense.

The other thing, which feels weird for me to be criticizing, is the inclusion of "Agent Lee" in the mission. He makes no sense. His name means he's not Japanese-American, which means he can't be a nisei or sansei ex-soldier who served with the 442nd RCT in Europe or the comparable units in the Pacific (and even then, it's a stretch -- they faced as much racism when they got back as they did before they left, even after serving in the Army with distinction). But the institutionalized racism in American culture and the fact that Chinese Exclusion Act was still in full force at the time means it's even less likely that he'd be a Chinese-American or a Korean-American.

I strongly suspect a scheduling conflict kept Kenneth Choi from reprising his role as Jim Morita (Japanese-American nisei, "I was born in Fresno, ace") in the Howling Commandos, and the show producers wanted to inject an Asian-American character in there. Full points for effort and hey, I ain't gonna complain if an Asian-American actor gets a gig. I get that the show is in a weird spot between reality and fantasy (the Howling Commandos themselves are very unusually integrated), but Agent Lee still felt too weird to me. Plus, it meant no Jim Morita, who had even more attitude than Peggy in that first Cap movie.

Hmm, and here I was expecting Sousa to be the potential love interest for Peggy on virtue of his sympathetic respect for her and the crap she deals with, but that might not be the case what with the revelation he found concerning a certain blonde-haired lady. If anything, it might be Jack! Dang, what a great way to work some character development into the guy: hot-headed jerk who really acts this way to save face and cover up some severe war trauma. Episode Five was a really big turnover for the entire mini-series, but seeing we're halfway through the show, that makes sense. Legit excited for the next episode.

Well, I wouldn't rule out Peggy/Sousa romantic entanglements entirely, but I'd also be perfectly happy if she doesn't end up with anyone, to be honest. I like Peggy Carter as a character enough to want her to be happy, but realistically, I don't think she's even really capable of a real relationship with anyone, partially because of her ongoing feelings for Steve Rogers and partially because of her own mental defense mechanisms as a spy.

What? I read that the opposite way: he gave the guy in the hallway cyanide too.

I have to admit, I read it that way too when I saw it. Reading the comments here makes me think the alternative makes a whole lot more sense (and did he even pop one of those pills in his own mouth before he offered one to the guard? Can't remember). The SSR seems to be operating more like the FBI than the CIA -- they're law-enforcement using espionage techniques, not true spies. Killing an American soldier makes no sense for the scene or the mission, and I don't think the SSR has the pull to make that guy disappear. It does set up the boss as far more savvy than I gave him credit for.

 

[Neo Yi]

The other thing, which feels weird for me to be criticizing, is the inclusion of "Agent Lee" in the mission. He makes no sense. His name means he's not Japanese-American, which means he can't be a nisei or sansei ex-soldier who served with the 442nd RCT in Europe or the comparable units in the Pacific (and even then, it's a stretch -- they faced as much racism when they got back as they did before they left, even after serving in the Army with distinction). But the institutionalized racism in American culture and the fact that Chinese Exclusion Act was still in full force at the time means it's even less likely that he'd be a Chinese-American or a Korean-American.

I strongly suspect a scheduling conflict kept Kenneth Choi from reprising his role as Jim Morita (Japanese-American nisei, "I was born in Fresno, ace") in the Howling Commandos, and the show producers wanted to inject an Asian-American character in there. Full points for effort and hey, I ain't gonna complain if an Asian-American actor gets a gig. I get that the show is in a weird spot between reality and fantasy (the Howling Commandos themselves are very unusually integrated), but Agent Lee still felt too weird to me. Plus, it meant no Jim Morita, who had even more attitude than Peggy in that first Cap movie.

I generally had the same concerns and thoughts, but largely relegated them aside for a brief "Yay, Asian character!" moment, even if he bites it at the end. Was it "Agent Lee?" I watched the show on ABC's website and the captions listed his surname as "Li", ruling out the possibility of him being Korean (because I can't remember that being an actual Korean surname) ...even if it would have been nice. Just saying. Hey, is that ABC show Fresh Off The Boat on yet?

Well, I wouldn't rule out Peggy/Sousa romantic entanglements entirely, but I'd also be perfectly happy if she doesn't end up with anyone, to be honest. I like Peggy Carter as a character enough to want her to be happy, but realistically, I don't think she's even really capable of a real relationship with anyone, partially because of her ongoing feelings for Steve Rogers and partially because of her own mental defense mechanisms as a spy.

I agree. My train of thought with the romance angle is more "This is someone who we could potentially see as possible future boyfriend and/or husband somewhere the line", not necessarily someone whom Peggy would be trading spits by the end of the mini-series for largely the same reason you stated: it's too early for her to deal with something romantically of that caliber and the important aspect of Agent Carter is for Peggy to stand on her own two feet as a well-rounded character.

 

[Ed Liu]

I generally had the same concerns and thoughts, but largely relegated them aside for a brief "Yay, Asian character!" moment, even if he bites it at the end. Was it "Agent Lee?" I watched the show on ABC's website and the captions listed his surname as "Li", ruling out the possibility of him being Korean (because I can't remember that being an actual Korean surname) ...even if it would have been nice. Just saying. Hey, is that ABC show Fresh Off The Boat on yet?

Despite my too-long rant above, the "yay Asian character!" was pretty much my reaction, too. The "wait, that totally made no sense" realization pushed itself to the fore once the episode was over. I would believe "Li" could be a Korean-American surname from the Ellis Island effect where immigration officials created an English version of a name in a foreign language they didn't speak on the fly. A college friend of mine told me that Korean people named "Lee" and "Rhee" were actually the same name, just spelled differently in English. So if you want him to be Korean-American, ain't nobody gonna tell you no.

And, off topic, Fresh Off the Boat premiered yesterday, but wasn't available on Comcast On Demand yet. The most hope I can muster is that it's not overtly insulting and lasts more than 4 episodes before being canceled, even as I hate myself for having to lower the bar that far and hate Hollywood even more because I'm genuinely concerned that it won't even clear a bar that low. But the book was awesome.

 

[Neo Yi]

Despite my too-long rant above, the "yay Asian character!" was pretty much my reaction, too. The "wait, that totally made no sense" realization pushed itself to the fore once the episode was over. I would believe "Li" could be a Korean-American surname from the Ellis Island effect where immigration officials created an English version of a name in a foreign language they didn't speak on the fly. A college friend of mine told me that Korean people named "Lee" and "Rhee" were actually the same name, just spelled differently in English. So if you want him to be Korean-American, ain't nobody gonna tell you no.

Eh, true enough and I'm fairly sure I might have seen a fellow Korean with that spelling sometime in my life before (memories ain't what they used to be.) I've also read "Lee" (and possibly "Li") is another form of "Yi" which being my actual surname is something I've had embedded into my head for a long, long time. And then there's also the fact that "Yi" is also a Chinese surname and oh my God I've gone cross-eyed.

 

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

Yeah, I found it kind of weird that this predominantly white, sexist male office suddenly had an Asian agent that seemed to just be another one of the guys.

 

[TheVileOne]

Did Jim Morita even have more than one line in The First Avenger?

One of the other tact team members from the SSR also looked Hispanic.

Poor Peggy, a psycho Russian communist assassin broke into her room and acted super creepy. Bridget Regan is a tremendous actress and should've been Wonder WOman.

 

[Yojimbo]

Keep in mind, during the WW2 era Chinese were considered allies to the U.S. before the Communist Party won in 1949.

In a way, it was cool how they depicted Mike Li as one of the guys considering how they were badly portrayed in 1940s Marvel comics.

Did Jim Morita even have more than one line in The First Avenger?

Yes, he did. He did.

One of the other tact team members from the SSR also looked Hispanic.

Yes, he was Rick Ramirez. The thing about the SSR is they recruited from all ethnic backgrounds as opposed to other agencies and military branches. Colonel Phillips said it himself in The First Avenger, "The Strategic Scientific Reserve is an Allied effort made up of the best minds in the free world." In other words, they recruited people from any country part of the Allies.

 

[Ed Liu]

Keep in mind, during the WW2 era Chinese were considered allies to the U.S. before the Communist Party won in 1949.

In a way, it was cool how they depicted Mike Li as one of the guys considering how they were badly portrayed in 1940s Marvel comics.

< S N I P >

Yes, he was Rick Ramirez. The thing about the SSR is they recruited from all ethnic backgrounds as opposed to other agencies and military branches. Colonel Phillips said it himself in The First Avenger, "The Strategic Scientific Reserve is an Allied effort made up of the best minds in the free world." In other words, they recruited people from any country part of the Allies.

I'm well aware that the Chinese were our allies during World War II, but that didn't mean there was anything like acceptance or any more depth of understanding as a result. It was, at best, an "enemy of my enemy" scenario, where suddenly the Chinese were the Good Asians and the Japanese were the Bad Asians. But you don't have to go very far before WWII to see the kind of Yellow Peril stereotypes that prevailed for decades. That kind of stuff doesn't go away overnight just because we had to stick it to the Japanese, you know? Plus, our wartime alliance didn't extend to the courtesy of allowing Chinese people to legally immigrate to the US for another 20 years (the repeal of the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1943 was tempered by the limit of 105 Chinese people per year in its replacement). Yeah, that's right: the Chinese were considered so dangerous that we were the first and only group to be totally banned from entering the country. Starting in 1882.

As I said, I'm cool with Mike Li being there. And, as I said, I get that this isn't a history lesson -- there's as much fanatsy and wish-fulfillment in the show as there is fact. It still struck me as weird.

 

[Tohya]

Dottie being a sleeper agent was something lots of people predicted, but I'm pleasantly surprised to see how they're tying that in to Black Widow (even if the connection isn't obvious to anyone who doesn't know the comics).

The Black Widow connection probably wasnt obvious but im pretty anybody who has ever seen a cold war era action movie knew exactly what they were watching.

As for Thompson, his whole character arc just took a left into Randomville. They havent really set him up as a tortured soul who's been carrying around that kind of guilt. While it was a pretty messed up story that depicted the acroticies committed in war, the scene just felt so forced. Like they needed Thompson and Sousa to desperately swap there stances on Peggy and the navy cross story was the only thing that stuck to the wall.

 

[Yojimbo]

I'm well aware that the Chinese were our allies during World War II, but that didn't mean there was anything like acceptance or any more depth of understanding as a result. It was, at best, an "enemy of my enemy" scenario, where suddenly the Chinese were the Good Asians and the Japanese were the Bad Asians. But you don't have to go very far before WWII to see the kind of Yellow Peril stereotypes that prevailed for decades. That kind of stuff doesn't go away overnight just because we had to stick it to the Japanese, you know? Plus, our wartime alliance didn't extend to the courtesy of allowing Chinese people to legally immigrate to the US for another 20 years (the repeal of the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1943 was tempered by the limit of 105 Chinese people per year in its replacement). Yeah, that's right: the Chinese were considered so dangerous that we were the first and only group to be totally banned from entering the country. Starting in 1882.

As I said, I'm cool with Mike Li being there. And, as I said, I get that this isn't a history lesson -- there's as much fanatsy and wish-fulfillment in the show as there is fact. It still struck me as weird.

True but I stick to my second reason that you didn't respond to. The SSR is more open minded about their hiring practices when it comes race and gender. They are international minded. The latter is talking longer mind you but in TFA, Peggy managed to have won over Colonel Phillips enough to serve closely as an agent with him on the front lines. Here on the show, she's changing perceptions.

 

[Ed Liu]

True but I stick to my second reason that you didn't respond to. The SSR is more open minded about their hiring practices when it comes race and gender. They are international minded. The latter is talking longer mind you but in TFA, Peggy managed to have won over Colonel Phillips enough to serve closely as an agent with him on the front lines. Here on the show, she's changing perceptions.

Oh, sorry, the last bit I wrote about the "this is fantasy not history" was intended as the follow-up to your justification that the SSR is more open-minded about matters of race than America as a whole. Apologies if that wasn't clear (and it totally wasn't, looking over my response now). I can accept a Latino agent over an Asian one, though, because Latinos served in significant numbers during WWII and not in segregated or specialized units (as black and Japanese-American soldiers did). I don't doubt they faced their share of racism of the era, but I can believe Agent Ramirez was someone's war buddy more readily than Agent Li.

All of this discussion would also never have happened if they had named him "Agent Yamada" or "Agent Nakayama" because then I'd be jumping up and down going, "They got a 442 man in the SSR!" All the Japanese-American soldiers who served in WWII were enlisted men serving under Caucasian officers, and the officers on the record had nothing but the highest praise for the men that served under them. I'd completely buy this hypothetical Japanese agent getting pulled into the SSR by one of his senior officers. I don't think it happened much in real life, but that would have served multiple needs simultaneously.

And in my dream world, Agent Nakayama would meet Jim Morita in Russia and they'd tag-team to take down Leviathan themselves, but I understand they already filled their quota of 1 Asian supporting character on screen at a time, so that would never have happened.