Looney Tunes Altered Versions Discussion v2 (or, the Looney Tunes Dumping Ground)

Daffyrocks

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Of interesting note, I came across a rip of LTGC Vol 3 officially dubbed in Romanian. Interesting to hear a few shorts I have never seen during early 2000s Cartoon Network dubs (done by Zone Studio Oradea), like The Film Fan, Hollywood Capers, Porky Pig's Feat, as well as Porky and Teabiscuit.

One thing I can tell is they did them at a different studio than Oradea, as the voice is different for the title card announcer, as well as the ending cards are left undubbed for B/W LT shorts, while Merrie Melodies just have him say "The End".

Anyone know what studio could have it been involved in dubbing the Golden Collection series?
Hey, are you Romanian? :)

I did look over some of these LTGC Vol 3 Romanian dubs myself. The studio which dubbed them (Mediavision, not Zone Studio Oradea) is the same one who dubed the shorts for Cartoon Network CEE, as the voice cast is the same one (even though the title card announcer is different, which is Claudio Istodor, as he is from the same dubbing cast). The dub seems indeed to be done later than for the shorts from CN CEE.

Now that you mention it, it does seem more Looney Tunes shorts (including post-1948 ones) were dubbed in Romanian by Mediavision, but for local channel Pro Cinema. I remeber seeing a Daffy and Speedy cartoon on Pro Cinema in Romanian, a very tiny bit of it, plus I noticed that Looney Tunes was aired once on this channel in December 2016 (after I checked archived schedules). Maybe, the Romanian track of LTGC3 uses the dubs of those "exclusive" shorts made for Pro Cinema. They dubbed even the B&W and post-1965 cartoons, in this case, and who says even some TV shorts like "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Bunny" (in that case, they used the same package of shorts used by Canal+ in Poland). After all, Tiny Toons and Taz-Mania were dubbed in Romanian for Pro Cinema by the same studio, and Looney Tunes could have made part from the same package of cartoon series from WB. If you know better, feel better to inform or correct me.

BTW, recently, thanks to @NewBogus :) and @Cool_Cat I made a discovery that not only Looney Tunes Golden Collection Volume 3 was released internationally with a Romanian track, but also Looney Tunes Super Stars' Tweety & Sylvester: Feline Fwenzy! However, one thing to sadly notice is that the Romanian dub of the shorts present there is done by a completely different studio and a different cast. Yeah. :sweat: The Feline Fwenzy Romanian cartoons' dubbing clearly wasn't done by Mediavision and even "Tweety Pie" (1947), whose CN CEE dub exists, was redubbed and sounds diferrently (even though the same 1995 m/e track is used as WB sent it to them like that). Tweety's Romanian voice, at least, is still the one from the Mediavision dubs (Dora Ortelecan Dumitrescu), while Granny's voice in these redubs is Gabriela Bobeș (who has dubbed other characters for Romanian versions of Cartoon Network shows). I can't recognise the Romanian actor of Sylvester from this version, though. I also don't know the studio who did these Feline Fwenzy Romanian dubs, it could either be Empire Video Production or Nord Media Studios, since these two are known in my country for making dubs directly for home video releases (but I am somehow sure it is the former who dubbed them).

You can see examples here from "Gift Wrapped" (1952), which I showed on Youtube one week ago:

One reason why I think they did secondary dubs for this DVD release, based on my theory, is that the Feline Fwenzy DVD release doesn't have the same recognition internationally as the Golden Collection sets. The Golden Collection is considered like an international trademark brand for Looney Tunes home video releases, so WB had to invest in all the dubs used or made directly for the international verions of the release. Whereas for the other DVD releases, like the Superstars volumes, WB only distributed those and nothing else, since they are clearly not as big home video brands as GC, and the countries who received the DVD were let to do and decide themselves with all the rest. I could be wrong, though, so feel free to correct me.
 

Daffyrocks

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A few months ago SBT (Brazil) has exhibited The Road Runner Show of very old copies

SBT always likes to use very old prints and dubs of their shows. Besides, I can see the rare original instrumental intro theme (despite the narrator's voice at the end) along with a rare interstitial with the Coyote painting himself and the Road Runner on the dashboard, which I don't think it was put yet on any compilation video on YouTube

Happy new 2021 year, everyone!!! :)
 
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Nexonius

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I kept reading about the short "Rebel Rabbit" being on HBOMax, or was on HBOMax. Does anyone have a list of every short that appeared on the service so far?
 

Cool_Cat

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For now they aired 4 new Looney Tunes HD shorts on MeTV. Hobo Bobo looks really good.

I kinda wish they would turn off that ugly audio filter, am I asking too much? :wolfie:
 

Daffyrocks

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For now, the following new Looney Tunes restorations were "leaked" by MeTV (on either "Toon in with Me" or "Saturday Morning Cartoons"):
- "Hobo Bobo" (1947)
- "Road Runner a Go-Go" (1965)
- "The Mouse on 57th Street" (1961)
- "Moby Duck" (1965)
- (JUST TODAY!) "Daffy's Diner" (1967)
I will post the titles to "Daffy's Diner" sometimes today or tomorrow, as @MTGM already recorded it.

Looks like MeTV will be our new temporary source of new restorations until HBO Max puts some more classic shorts to their service! Too bad "Daffy's Diner" or "Moby Duck" will probably never end up on HBO Max, so we won't get to see the full prints with no TV bugs sadly.

As for the leaked shorts so far, only "Hobo Bobo", "Moby Duck" and "Daffy's Diner" appear to be with Photoshopped titles.
 

Cool_Cat

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By looking back at old CN UK recordings I made another find.

Many of the post 48 shorts have an oddly equalized audio, making the sound a bit "soft" in comparison. I tried to recreate that, it's kinda close:

472080e41691f0b7626f84722aff8168.png


Turns out these versions are those with the old Italian dubs. This audio filter is applied over even the shorts which already had "fake stereo" audio on the left channel only, like Design for Leaving and Fast and Furry Ous. In fact I did a close comparison and for an example the Boomerang AU copy of Design for Leaving and Daffy Rents don't have that filter on, neither does Fast and Furry Ous from CN IT back in 2002 (when it had English audio only). I could make another example with Hot Rod and Reel from Boomerang IT and RSI La 1.

In all of these there's also an half second of silence on the Italian track at the beginning. The majority of the Bugs Bunny cartoons aired this way on CN UK. Also there are some like Rabbit Rampage or Rabbit Romeo which use a different audio filter.

The audio of these was also used for the English track on 3 1998 tapes on CN France. If anyone has an old recording of Rabbit Fire from CN FR in English let me know.

Kit for Cat on CN IT is not one of these apparently.
 

MTGM

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For now, the following new Looney Tunes restorations were "leaked" by MeTV (on either "Toon in with Me" or "Saturday Morning Cartoons"):
- "Hobo Bobo" (1947)
- "Road Runner a Go-Go" (1965)
- "The Mouse on 57th Street" (1961)
- "Moby Duck" (1965)
- (JUST TODAY!) "Daffy's Diner" (1967)
I will post the titles to "Daffy's Diner" sometimes today or tomorrow, as @MTGM already recorded it.

Looks like MeTV will be our new temporary source of new restorations until HBO Max puts some more classic shorts to their service! Too bad "Daffy's Diner" or "Moby Duck" will probably never end up on HBO Max, so we won't get to see the full prints with no TV bugs sadly.

As for the leaked shorts so far, only "Hobo Bobo", "Moby Duck" and "Daffy's Diner" appear to be with Photoshopped titles.
HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far). Regarding the mid-late 60s cartoons, there’s enough room left for Speedy’s cartoons, the two Bunny and Claude shorts, Flying Circus, and (if I’m counting correctly), Norman Normal as well. Pretty much every one minus the two with Native American stereotypes. Also, as pointed out by someone in the comment section of your upload, the restoration of Daffy’s Diner incorrectly states ‘A Vitagraph Release’ on the end titles instead of the proper ‘A Vitaphone Release’ tagline.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far).
Well, that makes sense.
 

Cool_Cat

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I went very in depth about the post 48 broadcast packages, not sure if anyone wants to hear all that though :D
 

Daffyrocks

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I went very in depth about the post 48 broadcast packages, not sure if anyone wants to hear all that though :D
I do!!! I like info about the old cartoons TV remasters! : DD

HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far). Regarding the mid-late 60s cartoons, there’s enough room left for Speedy’s cartoons, the two Bunny and Claude shorts, Flying Circus, and (if I’m counting correctly), Norman Normal as well. Pretty much every one minus the two with Native American stereotypes. Also, as pointed out by someone in the comment section of your upload, the restoration of Daffy’s Diner incorrectly states ‘A Vitagraph Release’ on the end titles instead of the proper ‘A Vitaphone Release’ tagline.
Ok, I thought that guy who commented didn't know any better. Now that I compared it with this video, I can see that WB took the end title from another De-Patie Freleng short and plastered it over..... Yeah, another silly digital edit with no real need smh.

BTW, thank you again @MTGM for your effort of recording every cartoon present on MeTV's cartoon blocks. You make a great favour for those who live overseas and can't receive MeTV :)
 

Cool_Cat

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I'll try, but it's very difficult to explain.

I said already that WB had two packages with music/effects tracks. The first was derived from a VHS series, the second made up by most shorts which had a track ready and a recent master (for the time anyway).

All I'm gonna say here is related to the PAL masters.

The raw form of those in the 2nd package looks way noisier than the source material, due to having gone through a 1 inch tape.

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-16h51m02s233.png

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-16h51m36s57.png



Some of these got through another conversion. Sometimes they have dot crawl on white edges, and sometimes an horizontal blur. Not sure exactly what happened, but these are derived from the raw version.

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-16h55m17s219.png

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-16h56m28s156.png

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-16h55m38s171.png

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-16h56m43s54.png



With that said, now here's the interesting part. WB distributed a package which apparently was meant to be multi-track with Spanish audio on. Some shorts here had the horizontal blur, while others don't. It also happened that the shorts from the 1st package instead went through a lower quality tape conversion, and in most cases the shorts have some kind of "fake stereo" audio which is just two differently equalized channels which combined together make the original track.

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-17h00m35s68.png

vlcsnap-2021-02-07-17h00m44s159.png


My only hint that this TV package had Spanish audio is by the Spanish track playing on Tabasco Road on Channel 9 in Australia. These versions were not used by European redubs, but instead were mostly aired by English speaking channels, like CN and Boomerang in Australia or Channel 9, and it's what WB has used in the PAL region in DVD extras and for an example channel K1 in Ukraine.

Furthermore as I said in the previous post, these versions were then used for multi-track versions with Italian audio (at least), and in this case the old Italian audio. These have another equalizer filter on top of the left track of the "fake stereo" sound.

Turner networks in the UK used these Italian versions for most of Bugs Bunny cartoons and some others, while Tweety and Sylvester or Road Runner cartoons for an example took different masters (similar to what the Time Out redubs did).

That's all folks (for now)
 

NewBogus :)

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I only wonder which m/e track package was used for Canal+ Poland dubs of post-1948 LT/MM theatricals, but I expect that the one with Italian track?

Recently, I've ended with Classic LT VHS with Daffy from 1990 including 9 post-1948 LT shorts. It seems that 1980's master of "Duck Dodgers in the 24 and 1/2th Century" was sent to be lectored with NTSC print, not the PAL one that was used in 1990's by Canal+ and then by WB itself.

What's more, it seems that "Robin Hood Daffy" lectored version that I've expected from this tape was not lectored by Andrzej Matul, but by Jerzy Rosołowski (similarly to the all shorts from this tape). This means, "Robin Hood Daffy", "Snow Business" (with original 1953 ending title card), "Feline Frame-Up" were the versions recorded from TVP 1 before the TV logo introduction.
 
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Cool_Cat

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The Polish dubs were dubbed on earlier raw material, like the Time Out dubs, not the multi-track package. I can only tell by the placement of the picture in The Astroduck, but that's enough for me.

It happened in those multi-track versions (again the only hint I have is the Tabasco Road audio) that at least two shorts from the 1st package had the m/e track hard mixed over. These are The Astroduck and Don't Axe Me. I don't think I've seen all of them in this format.

Some did not go through the low quality conversion seen in Cats and Bruises, Design for Leaving and such (which in this case it's guaranteed fake stereo). Zoom and Bored or Touchè and Go for an example look like the source material.
 

Daffyrocks

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well.... I don't think I understood all that you said, but still, nice info :lol:

So, it seems that those fake stereo tracks came from Italian tapes or something.
 

NewBogus :)

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Video for educational purposes.
It seems that Catalan dub of pre-1948 Bugs Bunny' shorts seems to use different m/e taken mostly from "An Itch in Time" and "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt", comparing to the most 90's foreign redubs.
 

Moe

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There is my question about concern with Looney Tunes on HBO Max - Looney Tunes on HBO Max

HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far). Regarding the mid-late 60s cartoons, there’s enough room left for Speedy’s cartoons, the two Bunny and Claude shorts, Flying Circus, and (if I’m counting correctly), Norman Normal as well. Pretty much every one minus the two with Native American stereotypes. Also, as pointed out by someone in the comment section of your upload, the restoration of Daffy’s Diner incorrectly states ‘A Vitagraph Release’ on the end titles instead of the proper ‘A Vitaphone Release’ tagline.
Well, that makes sense.
I noticed that Nuts and Volts get removed recently and can't find on HBO Max anymore.
 

NewBogus :)

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@LooneyTuney18: Yeah I forgot about them.


Just like @Cool_Cat, I'm doing the similar post about Looney Tunes History in Poland.


To begin with, Looney Tunes shorts in Poland firstly debuted in 1979-1980 on TVP (Public TV Polish) and were aired with lector Andrzej Matul. These were post-1948 shorts as a part of The Bugs Bunny Show. The Bugs Bunny Show was repeated also in 1991-1992.
View attachment 173791


As a seperated shorts with correct opening and ending titles, Looney Tunes shorts debuted in 1989-1990 in lectored version. Elmer Fudd VHS release which included "Cat Feud", "What's Up Doc?" and "Rabbit Seasoning" was lectored by Jarosław Łukomski, which latter VHS releases from "Classic Looney Tunes Cartoons!" were lectored by Andrzej Matul.

View attachment 173801

Then for the first time, Canal+ ordered a dubbing for post-1948 LT/MM package which for the first time was presented in mid-1995, the post-1948 package was aired until Saturday, the 3rd March 2007. Firstly, LT/MM shorts were aired as a part of Decode Pas Bunny block ("Rozkodowany Bugs Bunny"). At the beginning, Road Runner and Coyote shorts were undubbed (probably in 1996-97 the dub was done for RR&C shorts). In 1998 LT shorts were premiered also on Canal+ Blue/Sport (Canal+ Niebieski/Sport), and in 2000 on Canal+ Yellow/Film (Canal+ Żółty/Film). During the breaks between shorts, the short scenes with LT characters were shown.

View attachment 173811
View attachment 173821
The first dubbing cast of LT/MM shorts (dubbed by Canal+):

Krzysztof Tyniec – Bugs Bunny
Mieczysław Gajda – Daffy Duck
Ryszard Nawrocki – Porky Pig
Włodzimierz Press – Sylvester
Tomasz Kozłowicz – Speedy Gonzales
Mariusz Leszczyński – Pepe Le Pew
Mirosława Nyckowska – Tweety, Granny
Włodzimierz Bednarski – Foghorn Leghorn
Wojciech Machnicki – Marvin the Martian
Jacek Czyż – Taz


In 1993, Warner Home Video debuted in Poland, and WB made a new casting, in which the new dubbing cast for LT shorts was introduced. WB had been responsible for the order of the VHS/DVD releases for the next 15 years. After 31st August 2007, Galapagos Films replaced Warner Bros. Poland in releasing LT/MM shorts in DVD.

View attachment 173831


The second dubbing cast of LT/MM shorts (dubbed by WB/Canal+):

Robert Rozmus – Bugs Bunny
Stefan Knothe – Daffy Duck
Ryszard Nawrocki – Porky Pig
Włodzimierz Press – Sylvester
Tomasz Kozłowicz – Speedy Gonzales
Tomasz Marzecki – Pepe Le Pew
Mirosława Krajewska – Granny
Lucyna Malec – Tweety
Sylwester Maciejewski – Foghorn Leghorn
Włodzimierz Bednarski – Marvin the Martian
Jacek Czyż – Taz


The dubbing for the LT/MM shorts was produced and done by MASTER FILM studio.


In 1997 Canal+ started to air pre-1948 LT/MM shorts with the new dubbing cast and the first VHS release under Warner Home Video debuted: "The Stars of Space Jam". Then in mid-1998-1999 the pre-1948 package of LT/MM shorts with Polish dubbing was sold to Turner Entertainment, and on 4th September 2000 the pre-1948 shorts debuted on Cartoon Network Poland.

In 1997-1999 WB released in Poland other VHS releases: "Carrotblanca", "Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote: "Chariots of Fur"", "Bugs Bunny and Friends", "Bugs Bunny and Friends 2", "The World of Animals with Bugs Bunny" and "New Adventures of Bugs Bunny". Some of the shorts were released with low-pitched audio on their PAL prints.

In 1998 Cartoon Network started to air Road Runner and Coyote shorts. Like in Canal+ these shorts were undubbed.

As I previously mentioned, on 4th September 2000 pre-1948 Looney Tunes shorts debuted on Cartoon Network Poland. Some of the shorts were removed in 2002 when Hungarian and Romanian Audiotracks were introduced, and later in 2005 from the schedule.
View attachment 173841

In 2001 WB released the last VHS in Poland with LT shorts called "Looney Tunes Presents", and in this release, the previously "restored" masters were used.


In 2004, WB started with releasing Looney Tunes shorts in DVD as a part of Looney Tunes Golden Collection. All the post-1948 masters used mostly new dubbing ordered by WB or VHS dubbings. In few pre-1948 shorts new dubbing version was also introduced instead of Canal+ dubbings.



On 2nd May 2005, pre-1948 LT package debuted on Boomerang Europe and due to the Boomerang premiere of LT shorts, new GC masters were used for 4 shorts + Book Revue started to air with original opening and ending titles intact with new dubbing (replacing the previously aired Blue Ribbon print with Canal+ dubbing). Cartoon Network PL continues airing LT shorts until the 4th January 2009. On Boomerang LT shorts were aired until the end of December 2015 (despite removing most shorts due to the lacks of Bulgarian dubbing).

View attachment 173851

Due to Boomerang Europe launch, new dubs were introduced for 3 shorts, and later in 2007 "The Unbearable Bear" was redubbed.

In 2007, WB planned to release Golden Collection 3 DVD with all shorts which were dubbed in Polish language, but due to the low sales of Golden Collection 2 in Poland and in other European countries, some shorts were omitted, but f.eg.: Wideo Wabbit with new dubbing ordered for DVD was aired by TV Puls 2 in 2015-17.

After 3rd March 2007 Canal+ stopped airing LT/MM shorts and in the next years the post-1948 package dubbing was sold to Warner Bros. and Turner Entertainment.

View attachment 173861

In 2010 Galapagos Films released in Poland The Essential Bugs Bunny DVD and Looney Tunes: Super Stars 3 DVDs, and a year later The Essential Daffy Duck European Version was introduced. All these DVD masters from 2010 were lectored despite that the dubbing for most shorts was produced and released via VHS, TV or DVD.


In 2011, TV Puls started to air both pre- and post-1948 packages of Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies shorts. Most post-1948 shorts were aired with the new dubbings created for Looney Tunes Golden Collection Volume 1-3 releases. In 2012-13, the Looney Tunes airings from TV Puls were moved to TV Puls 2. Here in 2015, some pre-1948 shorts were aired with their restored transfers used in DVD’s and Blu-Ray.

View attachment 173871

View attachment 173881

To clarify the information about the 2nd Polish dubbing cast of Looney Tunes, thanks to @looneyfan93 from Discord - that dubbing cast was introduced in 1996 with the Space Jam theatrical release, however, 4 VA retianed their roles as LT characters.
And to update - the pre-1948 LT theatricals premiered on Canal+ in 1999, not in 1997 as I previously mentioned.
 

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