Looney Tunes Altered Versions Discussion v2 (or, the Looney Tunes Dumping Ground)

Daffyrocks

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Of interesting note, I came across a rip of LTGC Vol 3 officially dubbed in Romanian. Interesting to hear a few shorts I have never seen during early 2000s Cartoon Network dubs (done by Zone Studio Oradea), like The Film Fan, Hollywood Capers, Porky Pig's Feat, as well as Porky and Teabiscuit.

One thing I can tell is they did them at a different studio than Oradea, as the voice is different for the title card announcer, as well as the ending cards are left undubbed for B/W LT shorts, while Merrie Melodies just have him say "The End".

Anyone know what studio could have it been involved in dubbing the Golden Collection series?
Hey, are you Romanian? :)

I did look over some of these LTGC Vol 3 Romanian dubs myself. The studio which dubbed them (Mediavision, not Zone Studio Oradea) is the same one who dubed the shorts for Cartoon Network CEE, as the voice cast is the same one (even though the title card announcer is different, which is Claudio Istodor, as he is from the same dubbing cast). The dub seems indeed to be done later than for the shorts from CN CEE.

Now that you mention it, it does seem more Looney Tunes shorts (including post-1948 ones) were dubbed in Romanian by Mediavision, but for local channel Pro Cinema. I remeber seeing a Daffy and Speedy cartoon on Pro Cinema in Romanian, a very tiny bit of it, plus I noticed that Looney Tunes was aired once on this channel in December 2016 (after I checked archived schedules). Maybe, the Romanian track of LTGC3 uses the dubs of those "exclusive" shorts made for Pro Cinema. They dubbed even the B&W and post-1965 cartoons, in this case, and who says even some TV shorts like "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Bunny" (in that case, they used the same package of shorts used by Canal+ in Poland). After all, Tiny Toons and Taz-Mania were dubbed in Romanian for Pro Cinema by the same studio, and Looney Tunes could have made part from the same package of cartoon series from WB. If you know better, feel better to inform or correct me.

BTW, recently, thanks to @NewBogus :) and @Cool_Cat I made a discovery that not only Looney Tunes Golden Collection Volume 3 was released internationally with a Romanian track, but also Looney Tunes Super Stars' Tweety & Sylvester: Feline Fwenzy! However, one thing to sadly notice is that the Romanian dub of the shorts present there is done by a completely different studio and a different cast. Yeah. :sweat: The Feline Fwenzy Romanian cartoons' dubbing clearly wasn't done by Mediavision and even "Tweety Pie" (1947), whose CN CEE dub exists, was redubbed and sounds diferrently (even though the same 1995 m/e track is used as WB sent it to them like that). Tweety's Romanian voice, at least, is still the one from the Mediavision dubs (Dora Ortelecan Dumitrescu), while Granny's voice in these redubs is Gabriela Bobeș (who has dubbed other characters for Romanian versions of Cartoon Network shows). I can't recognise the Romanian actor of Sylvester from this version, though. I also don't know the studio who did these Feline Fwenzy Romanian dubs, it could either be Empire Video Production or Nord Media Studios, since these two are known in my country for making dubs directly for home video releases (but I am somehow sure it is the former who dubbed them).

You can see examples here from "Gift Wrapped" (1952), which I showed on Youtube one week ago:

One reason why I think they did secondary dubs for this DVD release, based on my theory, is that the Feline Fwenzy DVD release doesn't have the same recognition internationally as the Golden Collection sets. The Golden Collection is considered like an international trademark brand for Looney Tunes home video releases, so WB had to invest in all the dubs used or made directly for the international verions of the release. Whereas for the other DVD releases, like the Superstars volumes, WB only distributed those and nothing else, since they are clearly not as big home video brands as GC, and the countries who received the DVD were let to do and decide themselves with all the rest. I could be wrong, though, so feel free to correct me.
 

Daffyrocks

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A few months ago SBT (Brazil) has exhibited The Road Runner Show of very old copies

SBT always likes to use very old prints and dubs of their shows. Besides, I can see the rare original instrumental intro theme (despite the narrator's voice at the end) along with a rare interstitial with the Coyote painting himself and the Road Runner on the dashboard, which I don't think it was put yet on any compilation video on YouTube

Happy new 2021 year, everyone!!! :)
 
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Nexonius

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I kept reading about the short "Rebel Rabbit" being on HBOMax, or was on HBOMax. Does anyone have a list of every short that appeared on the service so far?
 

Cool_Cat

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For now they aired 4 new Looney Tunes HD shorts on MeTV. Hobo Bobo looks really good.

I kinda wish they would turn off that ugly audio filter, am I asking too much? :wolfie:
 

Daffyrocks

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For now, the following new Looney Tunes restorations were "leaked" by MeTV (on either "Toon in with Me" or "Saturday Morning Cartoons"):
- "Hobo Bobo" (1947)
- "Road Runner a Go-Go" (1965)
- "The Mouse on 57th Street" (1961)
- "Moby Duck" (1965)
- (JUST TODAY!) "Daffy's Diner" (1967)
I will post the titles to "Daffy's Diner" sometimes today or tomorrow, as @MTGM already recorded it.

Looks like MeTV will be our new temporary source of new restorations until HBO Max puts some more classic shorts to their service! Too bad "Daffy's Diner" or "Moby Duck" will probably never end up on HBO Max, so we won't get to see the full prints with no TV bugs sadly.

As for the leaked shorts so far, only "Hobo Bobo", "Moby Duck" and "Daffy's Diner" appear to be with Photoshopped titles.
 

Cool_Cat

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By looking back at old CN UK recordings I made another find.

Many of the post 48 shorts have an oddly equalized audio, making the sound a bit "soft" in comparison. I tried to recreate that, it's kinda close:



Turns out these versions are those with the old Italian dubs. This audio filter is applied over even the shorts which already had "fake stereo" audio on the left channel only, like Design for Leaving and Fast and Furry Ous. In fact I did a close comparison and for an example the Boomerang AU copy of Design for Leaving and Daffy Rents don't have that filter on, neither does Fast and Furry Ous from CN IT back in 2002 (when it had English audio only). I could make another example with Hot Rod and Reel from Boomerang IT and RSI La 1.

In all of these there's also an half second of silence on the Italian track at the beginning. The majority of the Bugs Bunny cartoons aired this way on CN UK. Also there are some like Rabbit Rampage or Rabbit Romeo which use a different audio filter.

The audio of these was also used for the English track on 3 1998 tapes on CN France. If anyone has an old recording of Rabbit Fire from CN FR in English let me know.

Kit for Cat on CN IT is not one of these apparently.
 

MTGM

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For now, the following new Looney Tunes restorations were "leaked" by MeTV (on either "Toon in with Me" or "Saturday Morning Cartoons"):
- "Hobo Bobo" (1947)
- "Road Runner a Go-Go" (1965)
- "The Mouse on 57th Street" (1961)
- "Moby Duck" (1965)
- (JUST TODAY!) "Daffy's Diner" (1967)
I will post the titles to "Daffy's Diner" sometimes today or tomorrow, as @MTGM already recorded it.

Looks like MeTV will be our new temporary source of new restorations until HBO Max puts some more classic shorts to their service! Too bad "Daffy's Diner" or "Moby Duck" will probably never end up on HBO Max, so we won't get to see the full prints with no TV bugs sadly.

As for the leaked shorts so far, only "Hobo Bobo", "Moby Duck" and "Daffy's Diner" appear to be with Photoshopped titles.
HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far). Regarding the mid-late 60s cartoons, there’s enough room left for Speedy’s cartoons, the two Bunny and Claude shorts, Flying Circus, and (if I’m counting correctly), Norman Normal as well. Pretty much every one minus the two with Native American stereotypes. Also, as pointed out by someone in the comment section of your upload, the restoration of Daffy’s Diner incorrectly states ‘A Vitagraph Release’ on the end titles instead of the proper ‘A Vitaphone Release’ tagline.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far).
Well, that makes sense.
 

Cool_Cat

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I went very in depth about the post 48 broadcast packages, not sure if anyone wants to hear all that though :D
 

Daffyrocks

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I went very in depth about the post 48 broadcast packages, not sure if anyone wants to hear all that though :D
I do!!! I like info about the old cartoons TV remasters! : DD

HBO Max has left several intentional gaps for where they plan to add more Looney Tunes shorts, with many of these gaps aligning where the rest of Speedy’s cartoons likely will go (Nuts an Volts is the only one available on the service so far). Regarding the mid-late 60s cartoons, there’s enough room left for Speedy’s cartoons, the two Bunny and Claude shorts, Flying Circus, and (if I’m counting correctly), Norman Normal as well. Pretty much every one minus the two with Native American stereotypes. Also, as pointed out by someone in the comment section of your upload, the restoration of Daffy’s Diner incorrectly states ‘A Vitagraph Release’ on the end titles instead of the proper ‘A Vitaphone Release’ tagline.
Ok, I thought that guy who commented didn't know any better. Now that I compared it with this video, I can see that WB took the end title from another De-Patie Freleng short and plastered it over..... Yeah, another silly digital edit with no real need smh.

BTW, thank you again @MTGM for your effort of recording every cartoon present on MeTV's cartoon blocks. You make a great favour for those who live overseas and can't receive MeTV :)
 

Cool_Cat

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I'll try, but it's very difficult to explain.

I said already that WB had two packages with music/effects tracks. The first was derived from a VHS series, the second made up by most shorts which had a track ready and a recent master (for the time anyway).

All I'm gonna say here is related to the PAL masters.

The raw form of those in the 2nd package looks way noisier than the source material, due to having gone through a 1 inch tape.





Some of these got through another conversion. Sometimes they have dot crawl on white edges, and sometimes an horizontal blur. Not sure exactly what happened, but these are derived from the raw version.







With that said, now here's the interesting part. WB distributed a package which apparently was meant to be multi-track with Spanish audio on. Some shorts here had the horizontal blur, while others don't. It also happened that the shorts from the 1st package instead went through a lower quality tape conversion, and in most cases the shorts have some kind of "fake stereo" audio which is just two differently equalized channels which combined together make the original track.




My only hint that this TV package had Spanish audio is by the Spanish track playing on Tabasco Road on Channel 9 in Australia. These versions were not used by European redubs, but instead were mostly aired by English speaking channels, like CN and Boomerang in Australia or Channel 9, and it's what WB has used in the PAL region in DVD extras and for an example channel K1 in Ukraine.

Furthermore as I said in the previous post, these versions were then used for multi-track versions with Italian audio (at least), and in this case the old Italian audio. These have another equalizer filter on top of the left track of the "fake stereo" sound.

Turner networks in the UK used these Italian versions for most of Bugs Bunny cartoons and some others, while Tweety and Sylvester or Road Runner cartoons for an example took different masters (similar to what the Time Out redubs did).

That's all folks (for now)
 

NewBogus :)

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I only wonder which m/e track package was used for Canal+ Poland dubs of post-1948 LT/MM theatricals, but I expect that the one with Italian track?

Recently, I've ended with Classic LT VHS with Daffy from 1990 including 9 post-1948 LT shorts. It seems that 1980's master of "Duck Dodgers in the 24 and 1/2th Century" was sent to be lectored with NTSC print, not the PAL one that was used in 1990's by Canal+ and then by WB itself.

What's more, it seems that "Robin Hood Daffy" lectored version that I've expected from this tape was not lectored by Andrzej Matul, but by Jerzy Rosołowski (similarly to the all shorts from this tape). This means, "Robin Hood Daffy", "Snow Business" (with original 1953 ending title card), "Feline Frame-Up" were the versions recorded from TVP 1 before the TV logo introduction.
 
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Cool_Cat

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The Polish dubs were dubbed on earlier raw material, like the Time Out dubs, not the multi-track package. I can only tell by the placement of the picture in The Astroduck, but that's enough for me.

It happened in those multi-track versions (again the only hint I have is the Tabasco Road audio) that at least two shorts from the 1st package had the m/e track hard mixed over. These are The Astroduck and Don't Axe Me. I don't think I've seen all of them in this format.

Some did not go through the low quality conversion seen in Cats and Bruises, Design for Leaving and such (which in this case it's guaranteed fake stereo). Zoom and Bored or Touchè and Go for an example look like the source material.
 

Daffyrocks

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well.... I don't think I understood all that you said, but still, nice info :lol:

So, it seems that those fake stereo tracks came from Italian tapes or something.
 

NewBogus :)

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Video for educational purposes.
It seems that Catalan dub of pre-1948 Bugs Bunny' shorts seems to use different m/e taken mostly from "An Itch in Time" and "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt", comparing to the most 90's foreign redubs.
 

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