"Loki (Disney+ Limited Series)" Talkback (Spoilers)

Neo Ultra Mike

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You know a thought occurred to me when thinking about this show and who the creator of the TVA could be behind everything. Keep in mind this is all a theory so I could be totally wrong but it's something I feel make sense especially with everything that's been set up and what could be set up in the future.

Okay I think the one who created the TVA is Ravonna Renslayer, the REAL Ravonna Renslayer. As stated previously everyone who works in the TVA are variants which would include Renslayer thus why the one we've been following doesn't really have a clue who is really pulling the strings and is trying to find that out herself. Thus probably why Miss Minutes is so keen on protecting the variant because she also probably secretly works for the real Ravonna. And she's the one in this castle who created the TVA to have them capture variants throughout space time and have them pruned so their energy could be fed to the Airoth beast who in turn would cipher energy to Kang the Conqueror. Who because of some massive time and space accident is in a stasis hold that only a massive amount of energy will be able to restore as she wants to save him due to to their love so you know tie into the whole theme of love going on and probably needs like Sylvie and Loki's connection to finish the healing thus why she would have a big fight with them at the end and there'd be a stinger indicating Kang had finally been free but got flung somewhere which would tie into Ant man and the Wasp: Quantumania.

Like again all of this is a theory so I could be totally off but I think it makes sense and has us have a more built up villain then if it was Kang while still having a twist thrown in. Plus hey they should explore the idea of variants besides just with Loki right?
 
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Fone Bone

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That’s a very good theory.


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It really is. What makes a good theory a good theory is if it COULD be true. It doesn't even have to be right to be a good theory. What @Neo Ultra Mike is saying is plausible and would entirely fit, making it a good theory. It impresses me, even if it turns out to be wrong.
 

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Episode 6 "For All Time. Always."
The clock is ticking in the season finale which finds Loki and Sylvie on a date with destiny.
 
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Fone Bone

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Loki "For All Time. Always."

That definitely lent itself to a second season. And it's the first Marvel Studios finale that did. I don't feel WandaVision had a satisfying ending, but it also seemed to be a an interlude between the movies. The Falcon And The Winter Soldier also seemed to set up a fourth Captain America film. While this finale definitely had ramifications for the Marvel Universe at large, it also struck me as pretty self-sufficient. As in not needing a movie to wrap the story up.

I think the dude is Kang. The Conqueror stuff as well as the 31st Century stuff points strongly to that. But what I like is that if it IS Kang, the first glimpse we got of him, as the supposedly only good Kang in the Multiverse, is completely and outrageously different from the cruel and ruthless dictator he's always been portrayed as in previous projects. Yes, he's a liar. He's also a scamp and genuinely friendly. And his motives may be altruistic. I think showing us a "good" Kang to start off with, and suggesting that he'll eventually wind up reincarnated anyways is a good baseline for whatever horrible alien looking dictator Jonathan Majors is next asked to portray. The beard also seems to correspond with the alien lines on Kang's face from the cartoons and comics which is another thing to say it's him.

I liked the finales of WandaVision and Falcon And Winter Soldier. And I heard a LOT of complaints about the latter that seemed kind of sound to me, even if I enjoyed it. I'm not sure what the reception is going to be for this, but I suspect, and I could be off, it's response will be relatively favorable simply because it's played as a good season finale rather than a disappointing series finale.

I will not lie. It's not perfect. Me, the dude who loves small quirky scenes as seen on Twin Peaks, got a little antsy as Sylvie and Loki were settling down in the dude's office while he made them tea. They could have trimmed a good five minutes off the episode by not wasting time on those specific quirks. And considering the stakes, wasting time on quirks isn't my favorite thing.

Lastly, I want to ask what the turnaround for the next season is gonna be. Are they gonna have to start over from scratch and start writing scripts and creating new sets? Are we going to have to wait another three or four years for the next season after it was announced at the end of the episode? Will Marvel Studios only start filming the new season after Hawkeye, She-Hulk, Miss Marvel, and Moon Knight have already been made? Or was the show designed from the start as a seasonal television series expected to come back from hiatuses year to year? The reason I ask the question is because the Marvel shows have a very unusual level of visual effects. As in they and the Mandalorian are the only TV shows whose visual effects budgets are the size of an actual mid-budgeted movie. The second season of The Mandalorian took only a year, but I'm wondering if Covid might be a factor here too. Everything seems a bit up in the air.

I responded positively to that. Perhaps the show overindulging in quiet moments when the audience wants to get down to business was too polarizing for other people. But I liked it and look forward to Season 2 happening sooner rather than later. ****.
 

Funkatron

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So it was He Who Remains ??? all along.

So technically Kang but a Variant. I was right. My theory was Immortus but I was right that it was a variant of Kang. The real Kang will appear in Ant-Man 3. Having He Who Remains as a variant who cleaned up the multiverse war that HE and his other versions started was brilliant. I loved that they were the ones who even started the war
 
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Neo Ultra Mike

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"For All Time, Always" - Man I feel disappointed... not in the episode actually, but in myself. Like I don't mind being wrong about who was behind everything but quite frankly I had thought to myself "okay the person who lives at the end of all time must know everything that's going to happen so likely not only arranged for the two Lokis to come to them, but also to even have them be variants in the first place." Thus the reason that Sylvie was taken off from her timeline wasn't because she was the most good pure female Loki or whatever but because the person needed someone who would actually be hardened enough to find a way through the Ailroth and to get to them which obviously not every Loki would of done. And the bond the two shared was part of that equation and I thought to myself "well that will likely come into play" and did but I don't think i said anything about it before seeing this episode and yeah feel annoyed I didn't call that aspect. Though I have to say I didn't really call a lot of this episode which I actually really like and appreciate and think really works.

First off major kudos to Jonathan Majors as "He Who Remains" Aka well Kang the Conqueror. I guess technically he's "Immortus" aka the Future Kang but this guy though has a funny joke about all the various names people call him already has way too many names and quite honestly Immortus I don't really like so I'm just going to stick with Kang. I mean there's so many variants and variations of Loki most of whom are called Loki why not just call this future Kang by his Kang name? There was a lot of talk of him appearing in this series and we actually do get to see him... well a variation of him. Obviously the one in Ant Man Quantumania is likely going to be one of his actual many evil conquering types but I really like the version we get here and hope he brings that same energy into that take on the character. Because the "guy who knows everything that's going to happen and has this smug annoying aura about him" can be a really REALLY annoying kind of character but he brings a lot of fun energy to the role that really works. I like how he teleported away and pointed out "okay how would I know exactly when to move when you were going to strike me?" and talking about offering tea and even laughing at the idea when they passed the horizon line and didn't know exactly was going to happen. He does really sell the idea of a guy who has been around for ages upon ages and is essentially creating this whole thing because it's the only system that works and pretty much trying to fix a mistake that he in a sense made. Or at least variations of him that he knows better then. I was hoping we would get variants of other characters and though we only get brief snippets I am glad that the main driving force for our so called "villain" was actually realizing how many of him screwed up and trying to make a system that worked.

Which of course leads to the crux of this whole episode and though there is sort of a battle (which still nothing impressive though the warping around and use of powers was at least cool though honestly the shots panning back and forth between Kang and the others as time was taking place and him showing the variations of himself was better) the main point and whole drama came more from a discussion and clashing ideals rather then a pure fight. That being between Loki and Sylvie on whether to kill Kang or whether to actually take up his offer and rule over the timelines. Honestly I do actually really like how essentially this entire series was a trial for the two and that build up of the relationship was in a sense Kang trying to get them to take this position having grown annoyed and bored of his status and wanting to leave the job in someone else's hand. That's a really actually interesting twist on the idea; that the supposed big bad that you've been chasing wants you to get him to take over for him, which of course leads to a clash of interests between the two Loki. With actually our Loki having actually grown and evolved and knowing his own skills of lying and deceit can actually see "oh he's actually telling the truth and honestly the idea of being with the woman I love actually properly maintaining things may be something I want to do" and of course Sylvie too blinded by revenge isn't really interested in that option. Quite honestly I think that's a much more interesting idea of how to break them up or for them to part then one simply dying tragically but rather one wrapped up too much in their blood lust to see the bigger picture. And I do like how it's actually Loki who has that mind set and also like the idea that is in a sense a debate between free will and purpose and Loki for once more willing to go along with another's purpose. Though yeah I think we all kind of knew that it would still end in tragedy though I do like how Sylvie kicked Loki away back to the TVA and then stabbed Kang as he died and then realizing what she had done like it finally hit her then that he wasn't lying. It does make you wonder what is going to happen to her though with the twist at the end which I'll get to in a moment.

And though not nearly as good as the stuff with the Lokis and Kang the bits with the other characters worked. I do like Miss Minutes attempting to tempt the Lokis not going anywhere (and yeah pretty clear Miss Minutes worked for Kang but wasn't in charge of anything so anyone who had her as the big bad also lost) and B-15 showing others the actual Renslayer (heh I guess technically we did see the REAL Renslayer in this episode like I speculated though not obviously in the role I did) to get them to turn away from the TVA. And I did like the convo between Renslayer and Mobius. Honestly I appreciate how the show is actually trying to not make Renslayer pure evil but rather "I want to believe what I have been doing for all of this years has a purpose that I will follow and that it wasn't for nothing" even when slapped in the face of what the reality of everything is. I do think it was kind of weak Mobius was so easily knocked back by her but I do like that her friendship actually DID mean something to her to and obviously she got away to likely not be affected by the whole big time rearrangment.

Which of course leads to the big twist; thanks to Sylvie killing this take on Kang now a variation of him runs the TVA in a Universe where there IS a multi verse (like the next show is What If so you know a multi verse was going to either be revealed or happen because of this universe) and most of the rest of the TVA's mind have been altered on everything that happened and yeah Loki is now a part of it but only he remembers what actually happen. Well maybe Sylvie if she's out there and pretty sure Renslayer does too as the whole point on her leaving is she's going to show up somewhere in season 2... and yeah the big reveal is that we are at least getting a season 2 of this show. Which I am glad for honestly since though this wasn't my favorite of the Disney Plus series (Falcon and Winter Soldier) this did have the most possibilities for more and I guess does mean Loki will still be on Disney Plus for awhile and not join up with the movies again. And honestly the idea of Loki now looking for either Sylvie or for Kangs is actually an intriguing one and curious exactly where this is going to go.

So yeah really solid ending and though kind of a cliffhanger and tease for another season you know they're making one and that works and this still having a solid enough pay off for this story of Sylvie killing TVA Leader Kang and splintering the time line makes for a good way to end this season. Especially now with a Loki more in tune with the TVA but obviously due to having his old memories being still in a different step where they are so curious where this is going but am fine waiting like... probably a year or something for more. And curious too if we are going to have more Kang in next seasons since yeah it's set up Loki knows how much of a danger he is... oooh does this mean we could tease Loki in Ant Man and WaspQuantumania? Probably not but again guess we'll see so yeah still a solid ending for this show. Some shots still felt a little long and yeah this show cannot do action very well but this was certainly a good ep for the performances from the Lokis and Kang especially and what Kang's plan with and how things fell out because of it.
 
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Frontier

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Witness the birth of the Multiverse of Madness (sorry Dr. Strange) o_O.

Oh hey, the Big Bang that started the universe! Complete with the timeline :cool:.

Miss Minutes turns out to be way deeper into the thick of things than anyone could have expected. She's basically He Who Remains' right-hand-woman, more than Ravonna at any rate, and she's probably still around. I wonder if she's still with the TVA after Kang takes over :tweety:?

I had a healthy dose of skepticism that we wouldn't actually get a Kang reveal, but then it turns out that He Who Remains is him...well, more Immortus than Kang, but Jonathan Majors finally makes his MCU debut as the Marvel Universe's resident master of time. He did a good job denying those rumors he was going to show up. It was weird to see him be so gleeful and humorous, but this take on him was basically Immortus who is supposed to be a Kang that's mellowed out, so we haven't really see Majors as the real Kang the Conqueror, who is coming :eek:.

Sylvie tried to portray herself as the most heroic Loki and a "liberator," but even He Who Remains could see that she's not any better than him considering the bodies of TVA agents she's left in her crusade, when they didn't know any better, and that she didn't really care about it. Ultimately none of them are good guys :oops:.
So apparently the TVA was all about preventing a Multiversal War between different versions of Kang as they warred with each other for supremacy. How many variants of Kang are we going to see show up? Will there be a main version of Kang? Is an entirely different Kang going to be facing off against Ant-Man and family? Is there still a Council of Kang's? How do you stop a villain who has so many Variants of himself that one will likely take the others' place no matter what you do? That's one way of adapting Kangs' inability to be permanently defeated in the comics :evil:.

"A ruler...a conqueror..." he said the thing :D.

Loki, thanks to character development and being a liar himself, is able to see He Who Remains' honesty and acknowledge that killing him might not be the best solution. He's matured enough to see all the angles and want to handle it practically. But Sylvie is just too bitter and angry to believe in what He Who Remains has to say, and despite sharing their first kiss, Sylvie basically casts him off :(.

I wonder if Sylvie felt like she was giving them both what they wanted by sending Loki back to the TVA while she gets to kill HWR, but ultimately killing him rings hollow and accomplishes nothing as he embraces death knowing that Kang is coming and he'll live on again in another Variant. Sylvie basically accomplished nothing more than releasing the greatest threats to the Multiverse, all because she wouldn't listen or believe in Loki :sad:.

Gotta be honest, I was expecting Prime!Ravonna to be more special than just a mundane schoolteacher, but I guess it's Variant!Ravonna that is the big deal :mad:.

So what's Ravonna up to? Is her search for free will going to lead her to Kang? What did He Who Remains have Miss Minutes tell her :confused:?

B-15 and Mobius think they've saved the day...and then the next minute they're scrambling over what's going on because they've been reset by Kang. They don't even recognize Loki any more. Loki's lost in a way he probably never could have imagined :crying:.

That final shot of Loki looking at a statue of Kang in his comic-accurate costume (minus helmet) as he towers over the TVA was a crazy way to end the season :eek:.

"Loki will return in season 2" That's one way of working in the classic MCU tag ;).
 

Yojimbo

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Given this was a show with variants of people, the big bad only being afraid of his fellow variants felt right. And he was right. The previous big bad of the MCU was tough enough with, his army, his cult, an Infinity Gauntlet and the Infinity Stones then the Avengers and co. barely adverted disaster from a second version of him with time travel at his disposal. Now we're looking at an infinite amount of versions of the next big bad wrecking havoc on the MCU. Gonna be a ride.

It was an awesome bonus to get our first look at Majors as Kang, well a Kang. Loved the charisma, the thin line of intelligence and insanity he played up as He Who Remains. All called out Sylvi as a hypocrite and yelled at her to grow up, lmao. Really looking forward to seeing this actor and character for the next couple years.

Had a feeling that Loki wouldn't get through to Sylvie and her getting to do what she wanted all along wouldn't be satisfying at all.

Guess Renslayer will be back in a more villainous role next season. Only theory I got is she's going to the 31st century in search of the first Kang.

It was a great way to end it on a subtle terror that Loki didn't even realize the timeline had already changed until he found Mobius and B-15 then saw the Timekeeper statue was gone and replaced with one of Kang. And apparently, Loki is the other analyst all along in a way. lol.

Marvel posted some debrief articles with the cast and crew breaking down the finale, here, here, and here.

And THR claims Loki will appear in Multiverse of Madness.
 

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Given this was a show with variants of people, the big bad only being afraid of his fellow variants felt right. And he was right. The previous big bad of the MCU was tough enough with, his army, his cult, an Infinity Gauntlet and the Infinity Stones then the Avengers and co. barely adverted disaster from a second version of him with time travel at his disposal. Now we're looking at an infinite amount of versions of the next big bad wrecking havoc on the MCU. Gonna be a ride.
I think it goes to show just how dangerous Kang is, or even just one version of him, that He Who Remains had to go so far just to stop himself from basically existing, more or less, and now there's multiple versions of him that will probably be attempting to conquer the entire Multiverse...and one may have succeeded with the TVA :eek:.

Loki and MCU Big Bads, I tell ya :rolleyes2:..
It was an awesome bonus to get our first look at Majors as Kang, well a Kang. Loved the charisma, the thin line of intelligence and insanity he played up as He Who Remains. All called out Sylvi as a hypocrite and yelled at her to grow up, lmao. Really looking forward to seeing this actor and character for the next couple years.
I'm really curious to see what Majors is like as the actual Kang, and how many Variants of him we'll see...he'll definitely get to show off his acting chops ;).
Had a feeling that Loki wouldn't get through to Sylvie and her getting to do what she wanted all along wouldn't be satisfying at all.
Poor Loki with his most sincere attempt at convincing someone and it didn't work. And it all ended up being for nothing :(.
Guess Renslayer will be back in a more villainous role next season. Only theory I got is she's going to the 31st century in search of the first Kang.
I'm really curious what Ravonna's endgame is, but it seems tied to HWR...
It was a great way to end it on a subtle terror that Loki didn't even realize the timeline had already changed until he found Mobius and B-15 then saw the Timekeeper statue was gone and replaced with one of Kang. And apparently, Loki is the other analyst all along in a way. lol.
Mobius and B-15 thought they won, but the next moment Kang has conquered them all and Loki is left utterly alone again :crying:.
Well, yeah, they just set off the titular Multiverse of Madness :p.

I wonder if this will clue us in on what the next steps of Loki's character are. Is he going to be trying to stop Kang by cleaning up the Multiverse :confused:?
 

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